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ANDREW SULLIVAN: We must shock them ... with a force not not yet seen in human history.
andrewsullivan.com ^ | 9/12/2001 08:07:15 PM | Andrew Sullivan (bless his li'l heart)

Posted on 09/13/2001 5:10:34 AM PDT by SlickWillard

APPEASEMENT LIVES: A classic piece of appeasement appeared today under the guise of restraint and reason. My former colleague and friend Robert Wright argues in Slate against unilateral American action against the forces and states that have just declared war upon the United States. "[K]illing Islamic fundamentalist terrorists (which the perpetrators almost certainly were) can be not just ineffective, but counterproductive." This is the familiar argument of those who believe that these acts of fanaticism cannot be avenged without spawning more fanaticism. Kill one suicide bomber and you create four more. Wright's argument is that our new enemies are "simply not susceptible to normal deterrence." If Wright means by this that the indoctrinated handful of young fanatics who will always remain a threat cannot be deterred, he may be right. That is why these people must be hunted down and assassinated, and why we must kill any and all who surround or abet them. But the states and regimes that survive by fostering this evil surely can be deterred - and not by polite threats or warnings. In fact, the absence of a serious deadly response will only convince them to continue to foster the evil in their midst, and it will only get worse. Wright entertains the fallacy that because we can never eliminate all threats, we cannot eliminate any. His argument is simply defeatism. In 1940, many similarly well-intentioned urged Chamberlain to sue for peace, as whole swathes of the British establishment wanted, and as narrow British self-interest might even have required. Look what the consequences of war were back in 1940: the destruction of almost every major city in Britain. But Churchill was right to fight - even though it meant the deaths of hundreds of thousands of British soldiers and civilians. And he was right to say that there would be no surrender even if the entire city of London were reduced to rubble. A shocking statement that, isn't it? But it reflects an iron will that we must now summon for ourselves.

THIS ISN'T TERRORISM, IT'S WAR: Besides, this enemy is not simply a band of thugs, but several regimes that aid and abet these people and have celebrated this atrocity. These regimes have declared war on the United States, and it is time we repay the favor. The precedent is not the Sudan under Clinton or even Libya under Reagan. Under Clinton, these regimes were encouraged. Under Reagan, they were scared, but, under Reagan, they had not yet launched this kind of war. Now they have - even daring to target one of the citadels of our democracy: the White House. This is the most grievous declaration of war against America in history. What Wright hasn't absorbed, I think, is that we are no longer fighting terrorism. We are at war. And we are not at war with any old regime or even a handful of terrorists. We are at war with an evil that will only grow unless it is opposed with all the might at our command. We must wage that war with a ferocity that doesn't merely scare these monsters but terrifies them. Merely murdering bin Laden is a laughable response. If this new war can be waged with partners - specifically Russia, NATO, China - so much the better. But if not, the United States must act alone - and as soon as we can be assured of complete success. There are times when it is not inappropriate or even immoral to use overwhelming power merely to terrify and avenge. Read your Machiavelli. We must shock them more than they have shocked us. We must do so with a force not yet seen in human history. Then we can begin to build a future of greater deterrence. I repeat: we are not responding to terrorism any more. We are at war. And war requires no restraint, simply massive and unanswerable force until the enemy is not simply defeated but unconditionally destroyed. To hesitate for fear of reprisal is to have capitulated before we have even begun. I don't believe Americans want to capitulate to anyone. The only question is whether we will get the leadership now to deal with this or whether we will have to endure even worse atrocities before a real leader emerges.
- 9/12/2001 08:07:15 PM


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We must shock them more than they have shocked us. We must do so with a force not yet seen in human history. Then we can begin to build a future of greater deterrence. I repeat: we are not responding to terrorism any more. We are at war. And war requires no restraint, simply massive and unanswerable force until the enemy is not simply defeated but unconditionally destroyed.
Emphasis mine.
1 posted on 09/13/2001 5:10:34 AM PDT by SlickWillard
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To: SlickWillard
a force not yet seen in human history

Actually, that force has been seen twice in human history: at Hiroshima and at Nagasaki.

2 posted on 09/13/2001 5:11:42 AM PDT by SlickWillard
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To: SlickWillard
Weather for Kabul:

Today, sunny and hot. Tomorrow, cloudy, with temperatures rising to 3000 degrees and winds from the west at 700 miles per hour.

3 posted on 09/13/2001 5:21:50 AM PDT by Jim Noble
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To: SlickWillard
We should thank Bin Laden for what he has done for us. The next round of American election will feature candidates that want 90% of the vote, and those voters won't be begging for "restraint". Count on it. Bin Laden don't know American History very well. Good. He has united Americans like we haven't been united in 50 years. Good. No more Jesse Jackson hugging Khaddafi, no more Arafat at the White House, no more Maxine Waters shaking hands with Castro. WE HAVE REAL ENEMIES. Any "American" giving them comfort or aid is a TRAITOR.
4 posted on 09/13/2001 5:24:37 AM PDT by wastoute
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To: Jim Noble
Atta boy Jim. nice forecast.
5 posted on 09/13/2001 5:27:24 AM PDT by hobbes1
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To: wastoute
You are right. I've been shocked (pleasantly so) to see democrats actually saying they're behind the President 100%. Last night, on Fox, some were kind of wavering, saying they didn't want to give the President "a blank check"--this morning Gephardt appeared on CBS this morning saying the President has everyone's support, even dem's. Amazing, and heartening. I feared for a time that there would be another war to fight--between the dems and the Republicans--to get the funding needed for whatever it is we have to do.
6 posted on 09/13/2001 5:28:25 AM PDT by MizSterious
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To: SlickWillard

Hymn Before Action

by Rudyard Kipling

The earth is full of anger,
     The seas are dark with wrath,
The Nations in their harness
     Go up against our path:
Ere yet we loose the legions
     Ere yet we draw the blade,
Jehovah of the Thunders,
     Lord God of Battles, aid!

High lust and froward bearing,
     Proud heart, rebellious brow--
Deaf ear and soul uncaring,
     We seek Thy mercy now!
The sinner that forswore Thee,
     The fool that passed Thee by,
Our times are known before Thee--
     Lord, grant us strength to die!

For those who kneel beside us
     At altars not Thine own,
Who lack the lights that guide us,
     Lord, let their faith atone!
If wrong we did to call them,
     By honour bound they came;
Let not Thy Wrath befall them,
     But deal to us the blame.

From panic, pride, and terror
     Revenge that knows no rein--
Light haste and lawless error,
     Protect us yet again.
Cloke Thou our undeserving,
     Make firm the shuddering breath,
In silence and unswerving
     To taste Thy lesser death.

Ah, Mary pierced with sorrow,
     Remember, reach and save
The soul that comes to-morrow
     Before the God that gave!
Since each was born of woman,
     For each at utter need--
True comrade and true foeman--
     Madonna, intercede!

E'en now their vanguard gathers,
     E'en now we face the fray--
As Thou didst help our fathers,
     Help Thou our host to-day.
Fulfilled of signs and wonders,
     In life, in death made clear--
Jehovah of the Thunders,
     Lord God of Battles, hear!

7 posted on 09/13/2001 5:28:57 AM PDT by BurkeanCyclist
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To: SlickWillard
We must shock them more than they have shocked us. We must do so with a force not yet seen in human history.

He's right.

The only way to prevent further attacks is to make the price they pay so vicious, violent and horrible that they won't want to pay the price again.

Nuke'm until they glow!

8 posted on 09/13/2001 5:57:04 AM PDT by Strider
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To: SlickWillard
I was thinking on Tuesday that if we have some kind of space-based laser that can reach down and fry a base camp at the speed of light, now is the time to show it to the world.
9 posted on 09/13/2001 6:05:57 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: SlickWillard
"Kill one suicide bomber and you create four more. Wright's argument is that our new enemies are "simply not susceptible to normal deterrence.""

Is this spontaneous procreation? Dead people don't do anything.

I see dead people.

10 posted on 09/13/2001 6:11:13 AM PDT by Search4Truth
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To: golitely
Gephardt actually said this morning there was "no air"... "no space" "no distance" between the democrat leadership and the president. That they would give him "whatever he asked for".

Truly historic times. We are going to war.

11 posted on 09/13/2001 6:11:53 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: kjam22
"Gephardt actually said this morning there was "no air"... "no space" "no distance" between the democrat leadership and the president. That they would give him "whatever he asked for"."

I do not believe him or the likes of that Hillary bitch for a second. They have embraced evil and brought it home to America. Now these sociopaths are running for cover. The WTC massacre is a consequence of their actions. They have blood on their hands. This worthless slime are simply in fear of their political careers. For they are responsible for bringing this evil upon America.

The WTC tragedy is the Clinton's, Hillary's and Liberal Democrats legacy.

12 posted on 09/13/2001 6:22:04 AM PDT by Search4Truth
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To: wastoute
Hillary! and Arafat's wife-


13 posted on 09/13/2001 6:25:22 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: kjam22
Gephardt actually said this morning there was "no air"... "no space" "no distance" between the democrat leadership and the president.

Heard the interview on GMA an hour or so ago. Diane Sawyer commented with incrudelity,
"You mean your prepared to give the President a blank check?" ... or words to that effect!
Earth to Diane ... we are at war ... shelve your liberal bias for the duration!

14 posted on 09/13/2001 6:25:36 AM PDT by BluH2o
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To: Search4Truth
Yeah... I'm pretty skeptical of how long all this comradarie on the Hill lasts myself. I keep waiting to hear Dickie G. or Puff Daschle talk about how "if not for the huge wasteful tax cut, we wouldn't have to pay for this out of SS" or something to that effect. It's awful, the cynicism the last few years have wrought. It's awful to believe (as I do) that even after a national tragedy like this, with all its ramifications, all Hitlery, Schumer & Co. are doing is shedding crocodile tears and calculating the ways to use it in their next campaign.
15 posted on 09/13/2001 6:39:37 AM PDT by workerbee
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To: Jim Noble
That is hilarious - now only if we can get the DumboCRAPS to wipe the blood from their hands and agree on what the meaning of "war" is ...
16 posted on 09/13/2001 6:40:26 AM PDT by Steven W.
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To: Search4Truth
#12...I totally agree with you
17 posted on 09/13/2001 6:40:37 AM PDT by WaterDragon
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To: SlickWillard
Kill one suicide bomber and you create four more Good. I'm not sure having only one to kill would be an adequate revenge anyway.
18 posted on 09/13/2001 6:41:07 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Jim Noble
Good one!
19 posted on 09/13/2001 6:42:58 AM PDT by freedomson
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To: SlickWillard
Attacking Kabul would be symbolic and little else. We could bomb an abandoned gas station in the Mojave Desert and cause about as much physical damage.

This enemy thrives in isolated, scattered, diffuse pockets and are constantly moving to new locations. The only genuinely effective response in this particular instance would be to track down and eliminate or take Osama bin Laden.

BTW, it is refreshing to come across a Sullivan piece that doesn't include a gratuitous gallon of gay-activist whine.

20 posted on 09/13/2001 6:43:13 AM PDT by Kevin Curry
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