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Hell No They Won't Go-yet.
Salon ^ | September 19, 2001 | Jenelle Brown & King Kaufman

Posted on 09/19/2001 12:06:53 PM PDT by watsonfellow

Hell no, they won't go -- yet
Maybe it's the lack of an identifiable enemy, maybe it's the terror of high-tech war, but young men eligible for the military are not marching down to sign up.
- - - - - - - - - - - - By Janelle Brown and King Kaufman

Sept. 19, 2001 | Will the terror offensive against America inspire a massive wave of young patriots to join the military? The Department of Defense reported that the number of recruitment queries doubled in the last week, but it will be at least a month until the military can determine whether those queries translated into actual enlistments. A random survey of fighting-age college students from San Francisco to St. Louis suggests that many young Americans remain reluctant to throw themselves into combat.

While they were shocked and angered by the attacks on high-profile American targets, a number of those interviewed expressed uncertainty about the exact nature of the military mission and the enemy American soldiers will be facing. Others, raised in a period of comfort and security during which U.S. military actions have been limited to high-tech air strikes, recoiled at the idea of bloody ground combat. Still others, educated in liberal classrooms on the works of U.S. government critics like Noam Chomsky, are suspicious of the Bush administration and its motives.

So far this year, the military has met its recruiting and retention goals -- for the first time in four years -- boasting some 75,800 new soldiers. Another 35,000 reservists have just been called up. It's possible we may never need to draft more soldiers to fight this war beyond those who have already volunteered. But if we do, and if, as in the past, all males between the ages of 18 and 26 would be eligible, and the lottery began with 20-year-olds, Canada should at least expect an influx of San Franciscans. On an overcast day in the main quad of San Francisco State University, nearly a week after the attacks on the World Trade Center, six out of a dozen San Francisco State University students polled by a reporter insisted that they would flee north if drafted.

Walking to their classes past the campus library, which is plastered with hand-painted posters proclaiming "Love is stronger than Hate" and "We can't afford intolerance. Unite for peace," students mostly ignore a guitar-strumming woman earnestly crooning folk songs, and they reflexively grab the fliers being offered by a young girl: "Don't Turn Tradgedy [sic] Into a War!" the handout proclaims in block letters. A "National Student Day of Action" is being scheduled for Thursday at Malcolm X Plaza; the organizational meeting is at Cesar Chavez Student Center.

In an environment like this -- a campus that was a student battleground in the '60s, and where major landmarks are named after labor heroes and black liberation martyrs -- it's perhaps not surprising that students aren't eager to put on a uniform.

"I don't support war, because I don't support this government," says 26-year-old Jose Gutierrez, an ethnic-studies major wearing a Guatemalan scarf and a leather jacket. He says he's organizing a vigil in favor of peace. "Any kind of military action is a symbol of U.S. imperialism," he says, "not of humanitarian interests."

His friend, 25-year-old Roberto Ochoa, proudly quotes Noam Chomsky: "There's been so much U.S. intervention in the world that led to what happened last week. Like Chomsky said the other day, should be asking what we did to deserve this?"

The response of Jamal Abdo, a 22-year-old broadcast and electronic communications major with Palestinian ancestry, was equally skeptical: "Who are we striking against, and what am I fighting for? There's more going on than what we're being told. Politicians have agendas and we aren't on it. If I were to get drafted, I'd be outta here. No way."

Or, as 18-year-old "John Smith" put it, "I'd go to Canada and face exile. I don't believe in killing people for any reason. Bush thinks the loss of innocent lives will pay for our lost innocence. It won't."

These peace-loving San Francisco college students may not be representative of all young American men and women. But few of the nearly two dozen students interviewed this week felt strongly that the U.S. should go to war, and those who did had difficulty articulating what we'd be fighting for. Three-quarters of the young men (and one woman) said they would go if drafted, but virtually none said they would volunteer to enlist.

Among the most gung-ho was Damola Oshin, an 18-year-old at Southern Illinois University in Edwardsville. "If the military needs help, Americans should join together and fight for our country, because this is our country and, I mean, there has been a violation of our country," he said. "I mean, these motherfuckers just come up in here and just spit in our faces and we can't just take that stuff. So if our military needs help, I think every citizen should get up and fight." Still, Oshin expressed some doubt over whether the current threat to the U.S. was "worth dying over."

"I would gladly go [fight], actually," said Jay Sherfy, an 18-year-old student at St. Louis University. "This whole thing, I don't know, kind of made me bloodthirsty. I want to see something done about it." Nevertheless, added Sherfy, he would be drafted before he'd enlist, and he still wasn't sure the terror attacks merited a full-blown war.

Adam Meranda, an 18-year-old student at Washington University in St. Louis, expressed similar ambivalence: "I think it's a pretty touchy situation. We can't just let another country push us around." But, he added, going to war was never a course that should be rushed into. "I tell you, I wouldn't be too excited about it, but you can't go to war and not be too excited about it or you're going to die. So you have to find a way to be excited about it, I guess."

Jackie Sangco, a 20-year-old diagnostic ultrasound major at Seattle (Washington) University, also had mixed opinions. "I have a strong feeling against any military drafting," she said. "But if worse comes to worst and they do need people and they do need to draft women my age, I think I would be willing to do it for the sake of my country."

Even those young men and women who are ready and willing to fight have a hard time envisioning themselves with automatic weapons strapped on their backs, climbing across the mountains of Afghanistan to fight the enemy. This is a generation raised on the horrors of Vietnam (brought vividly home in movies like "Apocalypse Now" and "Platoon"), whose most recent war, Operation Desert Storm, came over CNN like a video war game, with few American casualties. To them, the idea of a ground war is both appalling and antiquated. Most seem to hope that we can avoid this scenario altogether but they aren't entirely sure what the alternative would be.

"Everybody's saying it's going to be a different war than has ever been fought," said Steve Browne, a 23-year-old student at Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville. "I think there should be a lot of Special Forces in this war because we don't know how to fight over there, you know what I'm saying? I don't want another Vietnam."

"I don't think Americans understand the scope of the situation. Right now, everyone is rallying to fight, but what about two, three years from now when young Americans are dead?" says Manuel Corral, a 24-year-old San Francisco State student. "With our advanced technology, we should find some other means of achieving our military goals to protect our freedom."

Many of the young Americans we talked to were also aghast at the notion of killing innocent civilians, fearing that military action would bring the U.S. down to the level of its attackers while inspiring further terrorist assaults. "If we can find that one person or one group that's responsible, you know, and go and get them, that's fine," said Brent Boesdorfer, 20, of St. Louis University. "But I don't think that taking on a whole country or something, a bunch of innocent people, would be worthwhile."

And some of the young men with foreign-born parents were suspicious of the American government's motives in declaring war on unidentified terrorists whom it may have quietly supported in the past. Many among this generation of young men and women have ancestry that affords them some first- or second-hand knowledge of the last decades' wars and skirmishes in the Middle East and Latin America -- conflicts in which the U.S. role sometimes provoked heated controversies.

"If we're going to war, it's partly due to the U.S. being there before. I don't know why I should go to war when it's the government's problem. Why are we in the Middle East in the first place? I don't believe in fighting for oil, since it will be gone in 50 years anyway," said Azarias Castro, a 19-year-old San Franciscan of Salvadorean ancestry. Castro says he'd only be willing to fight "if they came here, knocked on my door and started killing people."

Indeed, the specter of more terrorism carnage on American soil seemed to be the only threat capable of driving even the most skeptical of these young people to enlist.

"If it is putting into question our way of life, would it be worth dying for?" pondered Jonathan Sakti, 21, of San Francisco State. "I don't know if it would be now, but if they get into biological warfare and people are dying all around me, and I'm going to be dying anyway one way or another, I guess so."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
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More from the total 5th Col. and Cowardice Department. The choicest comment being, Castro says he'd only be willing to fight "if they came here, knocked on my door and started killing people." WHAT THE HELL DOES HE CALL WHAT HAPPENED ON TUESDAY IF NOT THE KILLING OF PEOPLE HERE...IS HE SERIOUSLY WAITING FOR THEM TO COME SPECIFICALLY TO HIS HOUSE????

As some of you may know, I am a Thomas Watson Fellow this year, and on Sunday I organized for a group of us Watson Fellows who were in London to meet and go to the Embassy and lay flowers together. We had never met before (there were four of us who came) and let me say that I was so very disturbed, my fellow fellows all basically took the "Bush is an idiot, we should not go to war, we sortta had it coming" approach.

Furthermore, they were all much more concerned with people of Middle Eastern origin being inconvenienced than they were with the fact that thousands died! Very sad indeed.

1 posted on 09/19/2001 12:06:53 PM PDT by watsonfellow
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To: watsonfellow
Bomb San Francisco State University.
2 posted on 09/19/2001 12:12:37 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: watsonfellow
Liberalism is the KISS of DEATH for freedom!!!!
3 posted on 09/19/2001 12:14:42 PM PDT by RoseofTexas
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To: watsonfellow
Very sad indeed.
4 posted on 09/19/2001 12:15:18 PM PDT by Ms. AntiFeminazi
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To: sirgawain
Well in response to a similar story about some punks at a Berkely high school expressing similar views, some freerepers urged the us to bomb the bay area.

At the time, I wrote that this would be a bad idea as I have some very good and conservative friends in the Sonoma and San Rafael areas.

However if we could confine the bombing to just the SFSU area...it might be more appealing to me.....

THE PREECEDING COMMENTARY WAS SATIRICAL AND WAS NOT WRITTEN TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. (I guess these types of advisories will be necc. now in this time of ill-humour)

5 posted on 09/19/2001 12:15:49 PM PDT by watsonfellow
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To: watsonfellow
So far this year, the military has met its recruiting and retention goals -- for the first time in four years -- boasting some 75,800 new soldiers

Only because they filled a bunch of combat slots with women...lowering the standards to allow them entry

"I don't support war, because I don't support this government," says 26-year-old Jose Gutierrez, an ethnic-studies major wearing a Guatemalan scarf and a leather jacket

Ethnic studies huh? I'll bet his course load is a real bear. What is it Thomas Sowell wrote about schooling without skills? I wonder who is financing the education of this bastion of intellect?

6 posted on 09/19/2001 12:15:57 PM PDT by Norwell
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To: watsonfellow
It will probably be better for everyone if they do go to Cananda and just stay there.
7 posted on 09/19/2001 12:17:25 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: sirgawain
Cananda = Canada
8 posted on 09/19/2001 12:18:03 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: watsonfellow
Gee. this is direct contradiction to the AP story about enlistments "skyrocketing". Hmmm, now who do I believe - Salon, the delisted web shill for liberals, or AP Newswire???
9 posted on 09/19/2001 12:18:24 PM PDT by dandelion
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To: watsonfellow
"I don't support war, because I don't support this government," says 26-year-old Jose Gutierrez, an ethnic-studies major wearing a Guatemalan scarf and a leather jacket. He says he's organizing a vigil in favor of peace. "Any kind of military action is a symbol of U.S. imperialism," he says, "not of humanitarian interests."

Unfortunately the wuss does not live in Florida. With all the terrorist problems we are having down here and as mad as we are, if he were to say that in my friends faces, all vets, he'd need a lot of dental surgery. Hell, he'd be in an ICU.
10 posted on 09/19/2001 12:18:56 PM PDT by Nuke'm Glowing
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To: watsonfellow
Dear Canada and Mexico,

At this time, we apologize for sending you more cowards. Please assign them to the crappiest provinces you have so they can not return to the U.S.

Thank you,
The United States State Department
11 posted on 09/19/2001 12:20:28 PM PDT by Nuke'm Glowing
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To: watsonfellow
So they want to know what we did to deserve this? We sat on our tail ends and let liberals have a free rein in our schools, government, and culture. We sent signals that we are weak willed to China when we cut them a check for stealing our air plane, when we did nothing about the Cole, the barracks in Beruit, the Embassy bombings.

These terrorist feed on weakness, and we served them a banquet of it. That's what we did to deserve this.

12 posted on 09/19/2001 12:23:30 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: sirgawain
We have short memories; perhaps we need to recall a "president" named Bill Clinton who dodged the draft, led demonstrations against his own country while enjoying the fruits of its taxpayer money overseas, never did a damned thing for the soldiers who did go (and in fact, used "friends" who died in Vietnam derivatively in speeches to claim as his own valor) AND HE WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT TWENTY YEARS LATER! I didn't vote for the coward and probably neither did most of you; but look at the example this holds for the guys in their 20s today.
13 posted on 09/19/2001 12:24:37 PM PDT by laconic
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To: watsonfellow
I have a friend with a 15 year old son who desperately wishes he could enlist. But I have another friend who's 18 year old thinks the whole thing is "stupid." *sigh*

I have said for years that the worst thing that happened to the youth in America was stopping the draft. They have been cheated out of the chance to learn true discipline.

14 posted on 09/19/2001 12:25:00 PM PDT by EggsAckley
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To: watsonfellow
One of the radio stations in Seattle reported that the morning of the 11th, the recruiting stations in Seattle were especially busy. They said that one group of young people, who heard about the attacks while commuting to work on the ferry, headed straight for the recruiting office, instead of work.
15 posted on 09/19/2001 12:26:57 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Norwell
"I don't support war, because I don't support this government," says 26-year-old Jose Gutierrez, an ethnic-studies major wearing a Guatemalan scarf and a leather jacket

The question I have for Jose' is, does the governemtn support you?

There's nothing new here. There are classes of people in America who will never put on a uniform. To the brie eaters, honor is sending the kid in the old pickup to fight for their freedom.

16 posted on 09/19/2001 12:27:19 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: watsonfellow
Heads chock full o' mush.

It just goes to show you what thirty years of liberal infiltration of our higher education system has wrought.

17 posted on 09/19/2001 12:28:47 PM PDT by ThreeYearLurker
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To: Nuke'm Glowing
OH I would be SCREAMING if I heard this uttered near me!!!

How dare they get so self-righteous! What lies!!!

18 posted on 09/19/2001 12:30:26 PM PDT by Alkhin
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To: watsonfellow
Leave it to Salon to seek out the slime of our youth, I have seen and heard many young people expressing their willingness to serve,especially one at a local rally Saturday that gave a speech, that made him sound much more mature than his 18 years!
19 posted on 09/19/2001 12:31:07 PM PDT by mdittmar
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To: watsonfellow
A lot of American college students are cowards it would seem. There was one on here yesterday saying he would only fight if the enemy was China or Russia and that the draft was a form of slavery that no free country would use. He was such a chicken he had the thread pulled.
20 posted on 09/19/2001 12:31:17 PM PDT by Jaxter
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