Posted on 09/20/2001 9:11:36 AM PDT by Deadeye Division
Debate on conceal/carry bill continues
Thursday, September 20, 2001
Lee Leonard
Dispatch Statehouse Reporter
Last week's terrorist attacks on New York and the Pentagon underscore the need for Ohioans to carry concealed weapons, a state legislative panel was told yesterday.
But opponents of House Bill 274 said legislators should not even be considering the legislation while the nation is still reeling from the takeover of four commercial airliners that toppled the twin towers of the World Trade Center, smashed a gaping hole in the Pentagon and crashed in a western Pennsylvania field on Sept. 11.
"The nation, the state and the cities are planning what to do for protection,'' Karl Spaulding of Whitehall told a five-member Ohio House subcommittee studying the limited conceal/carry bill. "Each citizen should be doing no less.''
But Toby Hoover, director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, boycotted the hearing, saying it was insensitive to hold it "in the aftermath of the horrible loss we experienced this past week. No matter how you feel about concealed handguns, this is not the time for that debate.''
Rep. Ann Womer Benjamin, R-Aurora, chairwoman of the panel, defended the hearing.
"We had an appropriate and respectful hiatus,'' she said. "Everyone from the president on down has made it clear that the business of government should go forward. It's time to do the business of the state of Ohio.''
The bill, sponsored by Rep. James Aslanides, R-Coshocton, would allow sheriffs to issue conceal/carry permits to individuals who have no criminal background or history of mental illness, if they are fingerprinted and take a certified training course in the handling of firearms.
Spaulding, a security guard at Ohio State University, noted that passengers on the airliner that crashed in Somerset County, Pa., apparently fought back against the terrorist hijackers, and "probably hundreds, even thousands of lives were saved. The airlines are trying to take citizens' self-defense away from them.''
Spaulding said a conceal/carry law would help Arab-American citizens defend themselves against unwarranted attacks.
He and other witnesses tried to poke holes in the bill's provisions.
"House Bill 274 is filled with legal land mines just waiting to turn a law-abiding person into a criminal,'' said Steven R. Nelson of Grove City.
For example, he said the bill designates a number of gun-free zones, such as school property, but a person could unwittingly transport a gun into a school parking lot and be prosecuted.
"The parking area of an off-limits area is often considered part of the facility,'' he said. "Even leaving the gun in the car may not be sufficient to avoid arrest and prosecution.''
Nelson ridiculed the idea that college campuses should be designated as gun-free zones.
"If you believe that the people of the state of Ohio who take the time and the trouble to register their weapons . . . will get into a debate about Chaucer, pull out a gun and shoot somebody, you are mistaken,'' he said.
Nelson said gun-free zones should be clearly marked, and parking lots should not be among them.
"Only buildings or fence-enclosed areas should be off-limits to concealed carry,'' he said.
But Rep. Tim Grendell, R-Chesterland, said parking lots would become "mining areas'' for criminals to break into vehicles looking for weapons.
Former state Rep. Don E. Gilmore, a retired Perry Township police officer, said the proposed $25 fee for a conceal/carry permit should be raised to $45 or $50.
Gilmore, who lives on the Hilltop, said $20 will go for state and federal fingerprinting and background checks, leaving only $5 for the sheriffs to administer the program.
"That's not enough,'' he said.
Gilmore, who also was a deputy sheriff for five years in Franklin County, said it should not be a felony if the sheriff fails to destroy the background-check record as required in the bill. He said that would open the way for mischief by underlings who handle the data and might not like the sheriff.
Gilmore also recommended that the legislature set a limit on the power in the shells that could be fired by concealed weapons and that the application for a permit be notarized.
Womer Benjamin said these technical details will be considered during the next two or three weeks as her subcommittee attempts to draft a substitute bill. She said public hearings on the revised bill will resume in October.
"There are certain provisions that need to be sharpened,'' she said. "There are a lot of details we will be reviewing over the next several weeks.''
Among the details are the fee and other administrative issues, the location of the gun-free zones, and the training language.
www.ofcc.net
"The parking area of an off-limits area is often considered part of the facility,'' he said. "Even leaving the gun in the car may not be sufficient to avoid arrest and prosecution.''
Nelson ridiculed the idea that college campuses should be designated as gun-free zones.
"If you believe that the people of the state of Ohio who take the time and the trouble to register their weapons . . . will get into a debate about Chaucer, pull out a gun and shoot somebody, you are mistaken,'' he said.
Nelson said gun-free zones should be clearly marked, and parking lots should not be among them.
Gun-free zones defeat the whole purpose. It would be just a useful to affix bullseyes and rob-me signs to people using these areas.
You can't benefit from the doubt if there is no doubt. Remember the lesson of Chappaqua.....
Yeah, because the terrorist attacks morally wound their positions. Many, many people are now questioning the wisdom of creating disarmed zones in society - because if someone does get into such a zone with a weapon, THEY ARE IN CONTROL.
Include knives, legislators urged
By JIM PROVANCE
TOLEDO BLADE COLUMBUS BUREAU
COLUMBUS - The terrorist attacks of last week placed all Americans on the front line of a war, and they should be armed to defend themselves, a supporter of a proposed law allowing Ohioans to carry concealed handguns argued yesterday.
"This gives another reason for concealed carry," said Karl Spaulding of Columbus. "It’s not just against crime. It’s not just against terrorism. We have law-abiding Arab-Americans who may need to arm themselves against assaults."
He argued that the bill should be expanded to include concealed knives and batons to make it clear that Ohioans legally may carry them for self-defense.
A House subcommittee hearing on the bill occurred yesterday even as a House Democrat proposed a law to make it a crime to sell or possess a knife disguised as another object. The bill is in response to hijackers’ use of knives and other cutting objects to take over four planes, using three of the aircraft as missiles to destroy the two towers of the World Trade Center and part of the Pentagon.
"I don’t have a problem with a knife if it looks like a knife. I don’t have a problem with a gun if it looks like a gun,’’ said state Rep. Mary Cirelli (D., Canton) as she held up a ball-point pen that concealed a four-inch blade inside. The box identified the object as a pen-and-knife combination.
State Rep. Ann Womer Benjamin (R., Aurora), who chairs the subcommittee debating the gun bill, said her committee will consider the knife bill if it gets that far.
"I frankly thought that there would be some legislative repercussions from the events last week,"’ she said. "This may be one such repercussion."’
She plans to continue hearings on the concealed carry bill through the end of the month before considering amendments. It could reach the full House before the end of the year.
Yesterday’s hearing was boycotted by activists against guns who argued that it was conducted too soon after the terrorist attacks that are believed to have killed more than 5,000 people in New York, Washington D.C., and Pennsylvania.
"No matter how you feel about concealed handguns, this is not the time for that debate," said Toby Hoover, director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence.
The bill, sponsored by Rep. Jim Aslanides (R., Coshocton), would permit Ohioans to carry concealed handguns as long as they go through a permit process, undergo criminal and mental health background checks, and complete firearms training.
It is backed by the National Rifle Association, but opposed by some who prefer a much broader measure allowing the carrying of firearms unless otherwise prohibited by law. Gov. Bob Taft said he would oppose any such bill unless it is supported by law enforcement.
The measure is opposed by the Ohio Highway Patrol and the Ohio Association of Chiefs of Police, but backed by the Ohio sheriffs association. The Fraternal Order of Police has remained neutral.
Legislative repercussions
Post-tragedy proposals dominate the Statehouse
By Dan Williamson
Capitolgate Statehouse Reporter
dwilliamson@capitolgate.com
Hosting reporters in her Riffe Tower office yesterday afternoon, Rep. Mary Cirelli looked like Betsy Ross herself. Adorned in a stars-and-stripes sweater and surrounded by American flags of different shapes, sizes and textures, Cirelli spoke to a captive audience of seven or eight members of the Statehouse press corps.
Holding up a blue pen, she announced, “I have a knife.” She unscrewed the pen and, sure enough, there was a sharp, shiny blade of about two inches.
“I don’t have a problem with knives, but knives should look like knives and guns should look like guns,” said Cirelli (D-Canton).
Therefore, Cirelli plans to sponsor what she called the “insidious weapon bill,” to outlaw the possession or sale of weapons disguised as harmless instruments.
She said the pen-and-knife combo was purchased by Stark County Treasurer Gary Zeigler at an Ohio truck stop. Zeigler brought it to her attention and she promised him she would make an issue of it.
Cirelli said the Legislative Service Commission is studying the logistics of her proposal—the details of which are admittedly vague.
That’s understandable.
What’s remarkable is that a significant number of reporters showed up to be briefed on an as-yet-nonexistent bill proposed by an obscure, freshman Democrat.
Of course, the press was interested for the same reason that Cirelli was dressed like an American flag. The premise of her proposal is that knives reportedly were the weapons used last week by hijackers to take over the airplanes that crashed into the World Trade Center, into the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania.
Any new legislation that can be linked to the fight against terrorism is going to get its share of attention.
“It is time we heighten our awareness and tighten our security,” Cirelli said in a written statement distributed to reporters, “not just for Ohio but also for our great country.”
Across the street at the Statehouse, Rep. Ann Womer Benjamin (R-Aurora) was chairing the subcommittee on House Bill 274, a bill to allow Ohioans to carry concealed handguns. Asked about Cirelli’s proposal, she smiled and shrugged her shoulders.
“I thought there probably would be some legislative repercussions with the events of last week,” Womer Benjamin said, referring to Cirelli’s idea.
Yet, she didn’t dismiss it out of hand. “I’m sure this will be addressed in its time,” she added.
For the foreseeable future, you’re not going to hear many politicians saying bad things about any proposal presented as an antidote to the events of Sept. 11.
On Tuesday, both the House and the Senate unanimously passed resolutions to condemn the terrorist attacks against the United States and to pay tribute to the survivors and victims.
While speaking in support of the House resolution, Rep. Ray Miller (D-Columbus) implored fellow legislators to offer more than rhetoric, prayer and condolences. Miller asked his colleagues for unanimous support for legislation he’s crafting to spend $1 million from Ohio’s $30 million victims-of-crime fund for the victims of the Sept. 11 attacks.
Senate President Dick Finan (R-Evendale) said any suggestion to pitch in on the national tragedy would be worth looking at, though he added that he’s hesitant to give away any money from Ohio’s depleted coffers. Also, given the billions of dollars that will be allocated by Congress for relief efforts, $1 million from Ohio would be a largely symbolic gesture.
Meanwhile, last week’s events were being used as a political football in the contentious concealed weapons debate.
The Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence announced it would boycott yesterday’s H.B. 225 hearing in the wake of the terrorist attacks.
In turn, Ohioans for Concealed Carry founder and leader Jeff Garvas accused the organization of “exploiting the tragedy in an effort to hinder progress on the legislation.”
Maybe things are getting back to normal.
Let me carry my gun, legally, concealed, and the terrorists can carry their two inch knives. We'll see who wins.
Armed to exploit terrorism
Preying on the apprehensions of a jittery country to pursue a political agenda is shameful opportunism. But some pro-gun purists in Columbus are actually using the crushing terrorist violence suffered by the United States as a literal call to arms. Now more than ever, the twisted reasoning goes, Americans need to carry concealed handguns for protection.
While it is beneath the dignity of thoughtful citizens to even respond to such absurdity, it is nonetheless necessary because Ohio is considering legislation allowing residents to carry concealed weapons. But the timing of gun rights advocates to capitalize on the terror gripping the country is tasteless, and the logic of preparing for the front line at home with hidden handguns bizarre.
It is also crass to exploit the safety concerns of groups like Arab-Americans to sway public opinion on the merits of carrying concealed arms. But that didn’t stop Karl Spaulding of Columbus who testified in favor of a bill conditionally allowing Ohioans to carry concealed handguns.
Mr. Spaulding said the law was urgently needed not only to fight crime and terrorism but to deter the anticipated backlash against anyone of Middle Eastern descent. "We have law-abiding Arab-Americans who may need to arm themselves against assault," he asserted, further urging lawmakers to expand concealed carry legislation to include concealed knives and batons as well.
Why stop with guns, knives, and batons? What about concealed boomerangs, brass-knuckles, and bombs? Let’s fuel the self-defense scare with a whole arsenal of carry and conceal armaments.
Clear-thinking Ohioans had better hope cooler heads prevail as legislation proposing both conditional and carte blanche permission to carry concealed weapons advances in the Statehouse. Most law enforcement officials in the state rightly cringe at the prospect of tens of thousands of new handguns pouring into the public domain.
It is a bad idea based on unfounded fears that would only compound the safety problems of our violence-prone society. If the devastating terrorist attacks on our country have taught us anything, it is that there is no such thing as total protection.
It is unreasonable to pretend that effective protection will come when everyone is packing heat. It is also unconscionable to play on the paranoia of a shell-shocked people to press for a preposterous notion that is unwise, exploitative, and terribly timed to take advantage of public fear.
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