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I was one of the Taliban's torturers: I crucified people
The Telegraph UK ^ | 9/30/01 | Christina Lamb

Posted on 09/29/2001 4:40:28 PM PDT by vrwc54

In an astonishing interview with Christina Lamb, the Afghan leader's former bodyguard reveals the full brutality of the fundamentalist regime sheltering Osama bin Laden.

"YOU must become so notorious for bad things that when you come into an area people will tremble in their sandals. Anyone can do beatings and starve people. I want your unit to find new ways of torture so terrible that the screams will frighten even crows from their nests and if the person survives he will never again have a night's sleep."

These were the instructions of the commandant of the Afghan secret police to his new recruits. For more than three years one of those recruits, Hafiz Sadiqulla Hassani, ruthlessly carried out his orders. But sickened by the atrocities that he was forced to commit, last week he defected to Pakistan, joining a growing number of Taliban officials who are escaping across the border.

In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, he reveals for the first time the full horror of what has been happening in the name of religion in Afghanistan. Mr Hassani has the pinched face and restless hands of a man whose night hours are as haunted as any of his victims. Now aged 30, he does not, however, fit the militant Islamic stereotype usually associated with the Taliban.

Married with a wife and one-year-old daughter, he holds a degree in business studies, having been educated in Pakistan, where he grew up as a refugee while his father and elder brothers fought in the jihad against the Russians. His family was well off, owning land and property in Kandahar to which they returned after the war.

"Like many people, I did not become a Talib by choice," he explained. "In early 1998 I was working as an accountant here in Quetta when I heard that my grandfather - who was 85 - had been arrested by the Taliban in Kandahar and was being badly beaten. They would only release him if he provided a member of his family as a conscript, so I had to go."

Mr Hassani at first was impressed by the Taliban. "It had been a crazy situation after the Russians left, the country was divided by warring groups all fighting each other. In Kandahar warlords were selling everything, kidnapping young girls and boys, robbing people, and the Taliban seemed like good people who brought law and order."

So he became a Taliban "volunteer", assigned to the secret police. Many of his friends also joined up as land owners in Kandahar were threatened that they must either ally themselves with the Taliban or lose their property. Others were bribed to join with money given to the Taliban by drug smugglers, as Afghanistan became the world's largest producer of heroin.

At first, Mr Hassani's job was to patrol the streets at night looking for thieves and signs of subversion. However, as the Taliban leadership began issuing more and more extreme edicts, his duties changed.

Instead of just searching for criminals, the night patrols were instructed to seek out people watching videos, playing cards or, bizarrely, keeping caged birds. Men without long enough beards were to be arrested, as was any woman who dared venture outside her house. Even owning a kite became a criminal offence.

The state of terror spread by the Taliban was so pervasive that it began to seem as if the whole country was spying on each other. "As we drove around at night with our guns, local people would come to us and say there's someone watching a video in this house or some men playing cards in that house," he said.

"Basically any form of pleasure was outlawed," Mr Hassani said, "and if we found people doing any of these things we would beat them with staves soaked in water - like a knife cutting through meat - until the room ran with their blood or their spines snapped. Then we would leave them with no food or water in rooms filled with insects until they died.

"We always tried to do different things: we would put some of them standing on their heads to sleep, hang others upside down with their legs tied together. We would stretch the arms out of others and nail them to posts like crucifixions.

"Sometimes we would throw bread to them to make them crawl. Then I would write the report to our commanding officer so he could see how innovative we had been."

Here, sitting in the stillness of an orchard in Quetta sipping tea as the sun goes down, he finds it hard to explain how he could have done such things. "We Afghans have grown too used to violence," is all he can offer. "We have lost 1.5 million people. All of us have brothers and fathers up there."

After Kandahar, he was put in charge of secret police cells in the towns of Ghazni and then Herat, a beautiful Persian city in western Afghanistan that had suffered greatly during the Soviet occupation and had been one of the last places to fall to the Taliban.

Herat had always been a relatively liberal place where women would dance at weddings and many girls went to school - but the Taliban were determined to put an end to all that. Mr Hassani and his men were told to be particularly cruel to Heratis.

It was his experience of that cruelty that made Mr Hassani determined to let the world know what was happening in Afghanistan. "Maybe the worst thing I saw," he said, "was a man beaten so much, such a pulp of skin and blood, that it was impossible to tell whether he had clothes on or not. Every time he fell unconscious, we rubbed salt into his wounds to make him scream.

"Nowhere else in the world has such barbarity and cruelty as in Afghanistan. At that time I swore an oath that I will devote myself to the Afghan people and telling the world what is happening."

Before he could escape, however, because he comes from the same tribe, he spent time as a bodyguard for Mullah Omar, the reclusive spiritual leader of the Taliban.

"He's medium height, slightly fat, with an artificial green eye which doesn't move, and he would sit on a bed issuing instructions and giving people dollars from a tin trunk," said Mr Hassani. "He doesn't say much, which is just as well as he's a very stupid man. He knows only how to write his name `Omar' and sign it.

"It is the first time in Afghanistan's history that the lower classes are governing and by force. There are no educated people in this administration - they are all totally backward and illiterate.

"They have no idea of the history of the country and although they call themselves mullahs they have no idea of Islam. Nowhere does it say men must have beards or women cannot be educated; in fact, the Koran says people must seek education."

He became convinced that the Taliban were not really in control. "We laughed when we heard the Americans asking Mullah Omar to hand over Osama bin Laden," he said. "The Americans are crazy. It is Osama bin Laden who can hand over Mullah Omar - not the other way round."

While stationed in Kandahar, he often saw bin Laden in a convoy of Toyota Land Cruisers all with darkened windows and festooned with radio antennae. "They would whizz through the town, seven or eight cars at a time. His guards were all Arabs and very tall people, or Sudanese with curly hair."

He was also on guard once when bin Laden joined Mullah Omar for a bird shoot on his estate. "They seemed to get on well," he said. "They would go fishing together, too - with hand grenades."

The Arabs, according to Mr Hassani, have taken de facto control of his country. "All the important places of Kandahar are now under Arab control - the airport, the military courts, the tank command."

Twice he attended Taliban training camps and on both occasions they were run by Arabs as well as Pakistanis. "The first one I went to lasted 10 days in the Yellow Desert in Helmand province, a place where the Saudi princes used to hunt, so it has its own airport.

It was incredibly well guarded and there were many Pakistanis there, both students from religious schools and military instructors. The Taliban is full of Pakistanis."

He was told that if he died while fighting under the white flag of the Taliban, he and his family would go to paradise. The soldiers were given blank marriage certificates signed by a mullah and were encouraged to "take wives" during battle, basically a licence to rape.

When Mr Hassani was sent to the front line in Bagram, north of Kabul, a few months ago, he saw a chance to escape. "Our line was attacked by the Northern Alliance and they almost defeated us. Many of my friends were killed and we didn't know who was fighting who; there was killing from behind and in front. Our commanders fled in cars leaving us behind.

"We left, running all night but then came to a line of Arabs who arrested us and took us back to the front line. One night last month I was on watch and saw a truck full of sheep and goats, so I jumped in and escaped.

"I got back to Kandahar but Taliban spies saw me and I was arrested and interrogated. Luckily I have relatives who are high ranking Taliban members so they helped me get out and eventually I escaped to Quetta to my wife and daughter.

"I think many in the Taliban would like to escape. The country is starving and joining is the only way to get food and keep your land. Otherwise there is a lot of hatred. I hate both what it does and what it turned me into."


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 09/29/2001 4:40:28 PM PDT by vrwc54
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To: vrwc54
It's important to understand the enemy. Thanks for posting.
2 posted on 09/29/2001 4:50:31 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: vrwc54
I'm sure that many of these atrocities happen there, but this guy is making it up as he goes.
3 posted on 09/29/2001 4:50:46 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: mrsmith
How do you know?
4 posted on 09/29/2001 4:51:46 PM PDT by Mr.Clark
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To: Mr.Clark
Too much of what the reporter wants for his story.
May even be a "composite character" of the reporter's.

Like I said, I'm sure most of these things happen.

5 posted on 09/29/2001 4:57:24 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: vrwc54
"It is the first time in Afghanistan's history that the lower classes are governing and by force. There are no educated people in this administration - they are all totally backward and illiterate.

"They have no idea of the history of the country and although they call themselves mullahs they have no idea of Islam.

6 posted on 09/29/2001 4:58:51 PM PDT by F-117A
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To: vrwc54
"I was a Teenage Taliban Torturer!" and "I Know Who you Tortured Last Summer." Coming soon to a theater near you.
7 posted on 09/29/2001 4:59:27 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: mrsmith
It's true. More examples from others:

Taliban bring terror to refugee camps By Christina Lamb in Quetta

Among groups most worried about being herded into camps with their tormentors are the Hazara from central Afghanistan, who have suffered some of the worst excesses of the Taliban. About 3,000 were killed in one month in 1998 during the capture of Bamiyan, where the Taliban destroyed the giant Buddhas carved into a cliff earlier this year.

"I was forced by the Taliban to watch my husband burn to death," said Perigul, a mother of six, who thinks she may be 30. "They locked him in our hut and set fire to it, then held me there listening to his screams. They killed 300 people in my village, even children and old men and burnt all the crops."

Mohammad Sarwar, who fled to the mountains, said: "They came and they destroyed everything, shooting and killing people - even donkeys - with knives and poking the eyes out of the people with steel rods. They did not leave a single house standing in my village. They blew up tunnels in which people had hid."

Many women were raped by Taliban soldiers, though they refuse to talk about it. One woman, Aziza, with a small child clinging to her mud-spattered clothes, said with bitterness: "We have nothing left.

"The Taliban killed our husbands, deprived our children of school and food, smashed our beautiful Buddhas and forced us to crawl in the dust of Pakistan like beggars. You know we even had a women's university in Bamiyan. If anyone tries to put us in a camp with these people, we will seek revenge."


8 posted on 09/29/2001 4:59:29 PM PDT by vrwc54
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To: mrsmith
"much/ many", whatever.

A composite or Munchausen.

9 posted on 09/29/2001 5:00:37 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: vrwc54
If the Taliban are indeed maintaining control thru terror, then one interesting long-term solution would be to go in to villages, individually privately interview each villager, and randomly give some cheap pistols. When SF groups pull out and the Taliban return, they will start getting some surprises.
10 posted on 09/29/2001 5:01:01 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: vrwc54
Like many people, I did not become a Talib by choice," he explained. "In early 1998 I was working as an accountant here in Quetta when I heard that my grandfather - who was 85 - had been arrested by the Taliban in Kandahar and was being badly beaten. They would only release him if he provided a member of his family as a conscript, so I had to go."

"I got back to Kandahar but Taliban spies saw me and I was arrested and interrogated. Luckily I have relatives who are high ranking Taliban members so they helped me get out and eventually I escaped to Quetta to my wife and daughter.

??????????

11 posted on 09/29/2001 5:01:13 PM PDT by Apollo
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To: vrwc54
I don't doubt the events, just the comprehensiveness of this fellow's story.


To coin a phrase: "Munchausen by pressie" comes to mind.

12 posted on 09/29/2001 5:06:10 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: Mr.Clark
Because she 'feels' that he's making it up.
13 posted on 09/29/2001 5:06:19 PM PDT by FormerLib
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To: vrwc54
"We always tried to do different things: we would put some of them standing on their heads to sleep, hang others upside down with their legs tied together. We would stretch the arms out of others and nail them to posts like crucifixions.

"Sometimes we would throw bread to them to make them crawl. Then I would write the report to our commanding officer so he could see how innovative we had been."

This is just like what happened in Nazi Germany.

Anyone forced to carry out atrocities like that will quickly become increasingly inhuman. They did not start with crucifixions, that is the natural progression. They did not start out as willing torturers, but that is what they quickly became.

This is exactly what happened in Nazi Germany, right down to the "creativity" involved in torturing people.

Americans are probably more immune to this because of the way we were raised--we were raised to recognize that this potential exists within all of us. People who are not aware can be sucked in.

I do not know if this is a true story, but it is sadly believable.

14 posted on 09/29/2001 5:06:26 PM PDT by xm177e2
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To: vrwc54
"YOU must become so notorious for bad things that when you come into an area people will tremble in their sandals.

Want to see the people tremle, drop a couple of megatons and see who they fear the most, the Taliban or the USA.

Molon Labe!

15 posted on 09/29/2001 5:12:33 PM PDT by 11Bush
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To: xm177e2
Even if this particular story is not true, I'm sure similar things or even worse things have happened. To repress a people to such an extent, you need to use total brutality to keep them in line.

I was talking to a "pacifist" today at campus and I showed him stuff on what the Taliban does to "criminals" and women. It's no different than what the SS was doing 60 years. I watched his mind change before my eyes.

16 posted on 09/29/2001 5:15:23 PM PDT by Mr.Clark
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To: vrwc54
This person is the reporter that the taliban arrested just the other day... she's a British woman.
17 posted on 09/29/2001 5:18:06 PM PDT by crazykatz
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To: vrwc54
"The Americans are crazy. It is Osama bin Laden who can hand over Mullah Omar - not the other way round."

Actually I suspected as much and I think our administration is indeed aware of this.

18 posted on 09/29/2001 5:18:48 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: crazykatz
Maybe this story has something to do with her arrest.
19 posted on 09/29/2001 5:21:04 PM PDT by Mr.Clark
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To: crazykatz
It was Yvonne Ridley who was captured.

Here's Christina Lamb's story:

Two women reporters were talking in Peshawar of their children and the dangers of the front line. One was Yvonne Ridley, who was captured by the Taliban. The other was Christina Lamb

(skip) In the end my decision was made for me when my editor forbade me from trying to cross into Taliban country. Although frustrated, for the first time in a week I said goodnight to my son without guilt, knowing that I would be at the end of the telephone to say it again today. Yvonne is not so lucky.

20 posted on 09/29/2001 5:29:22 PM PDT by vrwc54
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