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Post #3.

Joh 8:32 - and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Let's see how israelite98 responds. I won't dignify him with any further posts.

Mt 10:14 - And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town.
1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself.

To the LDS

?????

;^(

You are right -- but keep reading through verse 30, and then read Hebrews 8:6-13 and Acts 15:14-17 which says "After this [ after God visits the Gentiles to take out of them a people for his own], I will return and will build again the tabernacle of David which is fallen down and will build again its ruins and will set it up"..

Romans 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, 26 and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";

????
Romans 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea,only a remnant of them will be saved; 28 for the Lord will execute his sentence upon the earth with rigor and dispatch." 29 And as Isaiah predicted, "If the Lord of hosts had not left us children, we would have fared like Sodom and been made like Gomor'rah." 30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, righteousness through faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued the righteousness which is based on law did not succeed in fulfilling that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it through faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that will make men stumble, a rock that will make them fall; and he who believes in him will not be put to shame."
Romans 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his descendants; but "Through Isaac shall your descendants be named." 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are reckoned as descendants.
." Gal 3:7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
. 18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received what was promised, but having seen it and greeted it from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
Heb 13:14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city which is to come.
Heb 12:18 For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire, and darkness, and gloom, and a tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet, and a voice whose words made the hearers entreat that no further messages be spoken to them. 20 For they could not endure the order that was given, "If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned." 21 Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I tremble with fear." 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them;
22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God is its light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

Therefore would not look like the Father or the Son, but would be one in the doing the will of the Heavenly Father, Just like we being of flesh and blood are to follow the Lord, being one

John 17!! ;^)

From the_doc
Apr 1 9:59 AM #185 of 187

I am sure that the full preterists are wrong.
And I will have nothing further to say to people who are so careless as to continually violate the Spirit of the warnings concerning Hymenaeus and Philetus. I am sure that you deserve to be rebuked and disfellowshiped if you are determined to persist.
(You may very well protest that I am not willing to discuss things honestly, but you miss the point. I have read Russell's junk. And I am fully aware of things in eschatology which Russellites are not willing to discuss honestly.
Worst of all, your position nets out as a religious disaster. You think the whole thing is lovely. This is perverse, friend.)
FINI



From The BIBLE

To the_doc; winstonchurchill; all Apr 1 9:49 AM #184 of 187

To John O Apr 1 8:36 AM #206 of 209

To the_doc Mar 31 8:44 PM #140 of 187

To sola gracia; raygun Mar 29 6:22 PM #148 of 169

Nope. The full preterists deny that we have any promise of the Lord returning to earth for us,

???

Rev 21:3 Then I heard a loud voice from the throne: Look! God's dwelling is with men, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.

and they deny that we have any hope of a bodily resurrection

???

1 Cor 15:53 Because this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility and this mortal must be clothed with immortality. 54 Now when this corruptible is clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal is clothed with immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: Death has been swallowed up in victory. 55 O Death, where is your victory? O Death, where is your sting? 56 Now the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

2 Cor 5:3 since, when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 Indeed, we who are in this tent groan, burdened as we are, because we do not want to be unclothed but clothed, so that mortality may be swallowed up by life.

of the dead. This is gangrenous doctrine in the Body of Christ.

16 Be in agreement with one another. Do not be proud; instead, associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own estimation.

Doc (I am sure that the full preterist position is wrong, however.)

And JESUS as quoted in the BIBLE (Matthew 24) says that we will see the signs and then we will know the time is near. So is Matthew 24 wrong?

???

Mar 13:32 "But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Mat 23:35 that upon you [them] may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari'ah the son of Barachi'ah, whom you [them] murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Mat 23:36 Truly, I say to you [them], all this will come upon this [that] generation. Luk 21:20 "But when you [them] see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it;
Luk 21:22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all that is written.

Mat 24:34 Truly, I say to you [them], this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.

This begs the question, WHAT Gentiles, and in fact, what ARE Gentiles? Are Gentiles simply anyone not exactly the same as you? The Northern Kingdom was never Jewish, so were they Gentiles? Or what would you call them? And how would you distinguish them from "other" non-Jews?

Ga 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ;^)

(I am sure that the full preterist position is wrong, however.)

Ro 12:3 For by the grace given to me I bid every one among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith which God has assigned him. ;^)

The silence here on this thread speaks volumes to me and confirms what I already expected that God does not work among the high minded arguments and philosophical debates of those who reject His spirit. May God bring you lightly from your lofty perches of reprobate religious self righteousness and fill you with His gift.

Mt 10:14 - And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town.

Here Jesus is telling them to confess unto him,and he will take it to the Father in heaven.

???? Matt. 10: 32 32 Whosoever therefore shall confess mebefore men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

If the Father and the Son are one and the same personage, how can the Son not know, but only the Father?

Acts 7:55 But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God."

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
???
John 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

No man knows the timing of the Lord's return, not even the Son of Man.

Mar 13:32 "But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Mat 23:35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari'ah the son of Barachi'ah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Truly, I say to you, all this will come upon this generation.
Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it; Luk 21:22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all that is written.
Mat 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.

It would be wonderful if everything was simpler.

1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the cleverness of the clever I will thwart." 1Co 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 1Co 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God1Co 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1Co 1:26 For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth;
1Co 1:27 but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong,
1Co 1:28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 1Co 1:29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 1Co 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption; 1Co 1:31 therefore, as it is written, "Let him who boasts, boast of the Lord."

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,you will be saved. !!!

If we believe the Father sent his Son to experience humanity, and to die for our sins, and to be resurrected the third day, and that his blood sacrifice would cleans us of all our sins, if we repent and ask Christ to come into our lives, and indwell us with his the Holy Spirit, that will teach us and direct us in the way we should live..

Joh 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." !!!!!!!!!!!! ;^)

Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, ;^)

so they prefer it to be pure fruit of the vine, and not defiled in any way.

????

2Ti 3:5 - holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people.

oi\noß a primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin (03196))
Definition
wine
metaph. fiery wine of God's wrath

Mr 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Mr 15:23 And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not.
Lu 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Lu 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Lu 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Lu 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
Lu 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Lu 10:34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Joh 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
Joh 2:9 * When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was : (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
Joh 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
Joh 4:46 So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum.
Ro 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby * * thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein * * is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.