Posted on 05/08/2024 4:57:37 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
Wrong. You did not and do not proved what I stated, and instead you are engaging in sophistry, misrepresenting my well-substantiated argument, that the Yarovaya law outlaws evangelical acting like evangelical should in freely evangelizing others, like I can still do in public places here, and seeking to convert others, apart from the unscriptural state church sanction. . Which has resulted in persecution, even if political aspects are often employed to justify it.
Thus your recourse is to red herrings. To wit:
Answer the following questions: Do evangelical churches exist in Russia? Are Russian citizens allowed to freely attend evangelical churches? Do evangelical churches in Russia have websites making Russian citizens aware of their existence? Are evangelicals across Russia traveling and gathering to meet in large cities like St. Petersburg?
Answer the following questions:
Where did I argue that:
evangelical churches did not exist in Russia?
Russian citizens are not allowed to freely attend evangelical churches? (with exceptions)?
evangelical churches in Russia do not have websites making Russian citizens aware of their existence?
evangelicals cannot across Russia traveling and gathering to meet in large cities like St. Petersburg?
Does this mean that evangelicals are not often persecuted in the West as well as in Russia?
The answer is NO to all those questions. And, this is proof that you are misrepresenting my claim about the Yarovaya law!
“A separate block of corrections “A separate block of corrections [to the bill approved by the Duma on June 24] defines what ‘missionary activity’ is and forbids it to be carried out by religious communities with aims that contradict the law.>B> The document also contains a ban on missionary activities aimed at disrupting social safety and order, extremist actions, forcing adherents to break up families, and intrusion upon the personality, rights, and freedom of citizens.
Stop with the attempted diversions and crafty language. It is not legitimate aspects that are issue, but forbidding evangelism, and a state church that is that main issue. Yet even "disrupting social safety" and "intrusion upon the personality" can be used to outlaw conversions, and broadly:
The Yarovaya law (in Russian: Закон Яровой, transliteration: Zakon Jarovoy), also Yarovaya package or Yarovaya — Ozerov package is a set of two Russian federal bills, 374-FZ and 375-FZ, passed in 2016.[1]
The Yarovaya laws at issue forbid Missionary work, defined as defined in as broad a way as possible: “Missionary activity … is defined as activity of a religious association intended to spread information about its doctrines among people who are not participants (members, followers) of the particular religious association, with the goal of drawing those people into the group of participants (members, followers) of the religious association, carried out directly by the religious association or by citizens by the association or by legal entities, publicly, by means of the media, the information-telecommunication network “Internet”, or by other legal methods.”
Such broadly applies to
The activity of a religious association, aimed at disseminating information about its beliefs among people who are not participants (members, followers) in that religious association, with the purpose of involving these people as participants (members, followers). It is carried out directly by religious associations or by citizens and/or legal entities authorised by them, publicly, with the help of the media, the internet or other lawful means"...Citizens are also required to report unauthorized religious activity to the government or face fines.
https://motabredsquare.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/missionary-work-after-the-yarovaya-laws-part-ii-legal-analysis/: The bulk of the effect of this legislation on missionary work concerns the addition of a large section dedicated specifically to missionary work to the federal code concerning the freedom of conscience.
Missionary work is defined in as broad a way as possible: “Missionary activity … is defined as activity of a religious association intended to spread information about its doctrines among people who are not participants (members, followers) of the particular religious association, with the goal of drawing those people into the group of participants (members, followers) of the religious association, carried out directly by the religious association or by citizens by the association or by legal entities, publicly, by means of the media, the information-telecommunication network “Internet”, or by other legal methods.”
Missionary activity thus defined is allowed “without restriction” in buildings owned by the religious organization, and various other specially-designated places such as cemeteries, but (reasonably so) not in other religious associations’ property.
Missionary work is not allowed in residences. If there is one takeaway from the law, it should be this.
In other public situations, only the leader of the local religious association (or a designated alternate) is allowed to engage in missionary activities without a special permit – essentially, a legal declaration by the religious association that the carrier is authorized to perform missionary work. This requirement is notably targeted at Russian citizens, but a similar requirement is also required of foreign citizens. (It is my understanding that it is already the Church’s practice is to issue such declarations for missionaries.) Of particular note is the prohibition against missionary work intended to assist in the performance of “extremist activity.” This has been defined by recent legislation extremely broadly,...
One final provision clarifies that only religious services and rites, not missionary work, is allowed to be performed in people’s homes (by reference to the law governing religious meetings held outside of religious buildings). On the face of it, this suggests that anointing for the sick and afflicted is allowed in homes, and perhaps even holding Sacrament Meeting, but no missionary work. As a preventative measure, the provision also prevents the legal conversion of a residence into a religious space, meaning that you can’t just have someone in the branch register their apartment as a church and hold member lessons there. - https://motabredsquare.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/missionary-work-after-the-yarovaya-laws-part-ii-legal-analysis/
Actually, what the law appears to be designed to prevent is the Western perversion of Christianity that would advance the LGBT agenda
Which is more desperate defense, since evangelicals are more opposed to LGBTQ even in the US than any other major "Christian' group.
All of which I have said and substantiated before, but like a Russian cult you simply ignore what refutes you and post the same propaganda.
What lying and sophistry! It is forbidding evangelism that has been the main issue, and your cultic defense of Russian which forbids it could be used in Muslim counties as well! Give it up. It only makes Russian defenders look like cultic devotees!
Once again you have rejected the reality and engaged in dishonest argumentation, and thus once again this exchange does not warrant more. Bye.
That isn't what is happening. That is only happening in your fantasies about Russia.
What about the fact there are evangelical churches in Russia with websites promoting them don't you understand?
I get it. You've got weird hatred for Russia and don't really care what is happening there.
😂 You're legend in your own mind only.
Why don't you give an a yes or no answer to the questions I asked you:
Do evangelical churches exist in Russia?
Are Russian citizens allowed to freely attend evangelical churches?
Do evangelical churches in Russia have websites making Russian citizens aware of their existence?
Are evangelicals across Russia traveling and gathering to meet in large cities like St. Petersburg?
Yes or no to all of them or just obfuscating and creating straw man arguments.
You're a master of the logical fallacy.
WRONG. They only forbid:
...missionary activities aimed at disrupting social safety and order, extremist actions, forcing adherents to break up families, and intrusion upon the personality, rights, and freedom of citizens.
You claim to be a Christian but you can't stop misrepresenting the law in question.
You claim there is a war on evangelicals in Russia. So, it's obvious evangelicals have religious freedom in Russia.
The only example you can give of a war on evangelicals is your misrepresentation of Yarovaya law.
I'd venture to say evangelicals are better off in Russia than they are in a blue city or state in America.
Then how is this possible?
Partner with Local Missionaries in Russia
An indigenous evangelical ministry in Russia is sharing the gospel and planting churches through multiple outreaches including summer camps and after school programs for youth and children, tract distribution, feeding programs, drug rehabilitation programs, and Bible studies. They also run a Christian bookstore, print gospel literature, and share the gospel through films and social media.
This ministry is actively reaching the Nenet people, nomadic reindeer herders who live near the Arctic Circle.
More desperation, and wrong linked source as well. How is this possible? The same way that it is possible in China, Vietnam and other commie countries, as well as Muslim ones, and thus your source, Christian Aid Mission, "works with hundreds of indigenous ministries that share the gospel of Christ with more than 2,000 unreached people groups in eight regions of the world," including the "Middle East, South Asia, Southeast Asia," meaning including areas in which doing evangelism is illegal, and in rural areas as (This ministry is actively reaching the Nenet people, nomadic reindeer herders who live near the Arctic Circle. ) this is often easier if risky . As the correct page of your excerpt states:
Russia officially recognizes Orthodox Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism as the country’s traditional religions. Evangelical Christians do not fit into one of these categories and are viewed as a dangerous sect.
Try, really try to comprehend that the existence of evangelical churches and their meetings etc. simply does not and cannot negate the fact that, as shown, evangelism is illegal under the Yarovaya law, and has resulted in well-attested persecution. And your own linked page - a https://heartcrymissionary.com/the-field/eurasia/russia/ states what you likely calls propaganda,
Russia is a great and impressive nation in many ways; but greater still is the people’s bondage to sin and their self-inflicted hardships. In Russia, six out of every ten pregnancies end in abortion; 50% of marriages end in divorce; suicide rates are among the highest in the world; and drug use is epidemic. It is easy to see that the vastness of the country does not begin to compare with the depth of the overwhelming need of the people within it. The Russians need Christ desperately because the gospel is the appointed means God has chosen to save the dying and perishing.
I did by exposing your sophistry, of obfuscating and creating straw man arguments, simply does not negate the FACT that the above is not the issue, for the fact that evangelism by such is illegal, and risky and such are often persecuted.
NO, it is you who is wrong, misrepresenting the law in question. Again:
The activity of a religious association, aimed at disseminating information about its beliefs among people who are not participants (members, followers) in that religious association, with the purpose of involving these people as participants (members, followers). It is carried out directly by religious associations or by citizens and/or legal entities authorised by them, publicly, with the help of the media, the internet or other lawful means".[12]
Missionary activities may only be performed by authorized members of registered religious groups and organizations. A group becomes ineligible to perform missionary activities if they have been banned under a court order for practicing extremism or terrorism, or have been liquidated. Foreign missionaries may only perform missionary activities after registering for a permit from a recognized religious organization.[12][13][14][15] Citizens are also required to report unauthorized religious activity to the government or face fines.[13]
The activity of a religious association, aimed at disseminating information about its beliefs among people who are not participants (members, followers) in that religious association, with the purpose of involving these people as participants (members, followers). It is carried out directly by religious associations or by citizens and/or legal entities authorised by them, publicly, with the help of the media, the internet or other lawful means"...Citizens are also required to report unauthorized religious activity to the government or face fines.
https://motabredsquare.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/missionary-work-after-the-yarovaya-laws-part-ii-legal-analysis/: The bulk of the effect of this legislation on missionary work concerns the addition of a large section dedicated specifically to missionary work to the federal code concerning the freedom of conscience.
Missionary work is defined in as broad a way as possible: “Missionary activity … is defined as activity of a religious association intended to spread information about its doctrines among people who are not participants (members, followers) of the particular religious association, with the goal of drawing those people into the group of participants (members, followers) of the religious association, carried out directly by the religious association or by citizens by the association or by legal entities, publicly, by means of the media, the information-telecommunication network “Internet”, or by other legal methods.”
Missionary activity thus defined is allowed “without restriction” in buildings owned by the religious organization, and various other specially-designated places such as cemeteries, but (reasonably so) not in other religious associations’ property.
Missionary work is not allowed in residences. If there is one takeaway from the law, it should be this.
In other public situations, only the leader of the local religious association (or a designated alternate) is allowed to engage in missionary activities without a special permit – essentially, a legal declaration by the religious association that the carrier is authorized to perform missionary work. This requirement is notably targeted at Russian citizens, but a similar requirement is also required of foreign citizens. (It is my understanding that it is already the Church’s practice is to issue such declarations for missionaries.) Of particular note is the prohibition against missionary work intended to assist in the performance of “extremist activity.” This has been defined by recent legislation extremely broadly,...
One final provision clarifies that only religious services and rites, not missionary work, is allowed to be performed in people’s homes (by reference to the law governing religious meetings held outside of religious buildings). On the face of it, this suggests that anointing for the sick and afflicted is allowed in homes, and perhaps even holding Sacrament Meeting, but no missionary work. As a preventative measure, the provision also prevents the legal conversion of a residence into a religious space, meaning that you can’t just have someone in the branch register their apartment as a church and hold member lessons there. - https://motabredsquare.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/missionary-work-after-the-yarovaya-laws-part-ii-legal-analysis/
Which is simply more absurdity! Are you paid to do this or it is just cognitive dissonance? The Yarovaya law forbids evangelism by such as evangelicals and thus there is a war on evangelicals, even though they can meet and do engage in risky evangelism, which was the case in the book of Acts as well. Your blind devotion to Russia is actually an argument against being a devotee of it!
As said in the past thread in which you engaged in the same manner of blind defense of Russia, "in conclusion, all your poor attempts (seriously) to argue against the Yarovaya laws as meaning what they say simply fail to do so, and cannot withstand the abundant testimonies to them being interpreted as meaning persecution of evangelicals evangelizing or not being politically correct."
In reality, arguing with you has become akin to contending with a cult, or an atheist, of which I have some experience, and since you refuse objective judgment then I see little warrant for more time and energy spent in attempting to reason with you. And true conversion requires honestly.
Further attempts by you to deny the reality will be ignored, as they should be.
May God grant you “repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.” (2 Timothy 2:25)
Those who fell outside these four patriotic religions’ freedoms were subject to anti-missionary laws and state surveillance, which eroded their ability to practice their religion openly. This tactical choice targets independent religious activity outside of the Kremlin’s control and allows the regime to prosecute religious groups through incredibly vague laws. Notable groups target under these laws include Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslims, and Evangelicals. Indeed, according to a 2019 report, Evangelicals were the group most penalized under the anti-missionary laws. For example, the Kremlin forced a Russian Christian radio station to relocate from Moscow, Russia to Odesa, Ukraine. In 2022, the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) recommended labeling Russia as a country of particular concern “for engaging in systematic, ongoing, and egregious violations of religious freedom”. - https://www.christianpost.com/voices/putin-is-not-the-defender-of-the-faithful.html
That's a LIE. I just proved otherwise but giving you a link to a Russian evangelical organization that does missionary work within Russia.
I'm sick of you ignoring evidence like that because you've an agenda, not spread the gospel to spread propaganda about Russia itself.
The Russians may well limit foreign missionary organizations because they don't trust them. And, have good reason not to. Western Christian groups often pervert the gospel with the LGBT agenda. Deep State and US government wouldn't hestitate to use a religious organization as a means to undermine the Russian government and foment a color revolution.
Refuting that LIE one more time. This Russian-born minister that travels throughout Russia doing missionary work:
https://russianmissions.net/about-us-2/
My heart is with my people in Russia. God has renewed a very strong call to evangelize my homeland with the message of Hope. I travel to Russia to conduct evangelistic outreaches in many areas of the former Soviet Union and we see hundreds of people are coming to Jesus. I have committed myself to share the hope of Christ to those broken and hopeless Russian souls. God is unfolding great opportunities to reach many people of Russia and Ukraine.
###
We go to remote places of Northern Siberia where thousand of villagers have never heard about God. We visit and provide help in cancer hospitals where so many children are fighting cancer as the result of Chernobyl accident.
Based upon that reasoning, since Christians can meet together in China, and they do evangelize, than there is freedom of religion for Christians to practice their faith unhindered there as well as Vietnam, Pakistan, etc. No doubt there are deluded or deceitful souls who would strive to defend that as well.
Another absurd attempt to deny the facts is that of asserting this is in order to prevent the spread of Western LGBTQ, despite the fact that evangelicals overall strongly oppose this. In addition is the vain attempt is restrict the prohibition of evangelism to that of disrupting social safety or intrusion upon the..personality of citizens, which is not that the law is restricted to, while such terms can easily to interpreted to apply to true conversion (Paul certainly saw his personality change, and disrupted social safety of citizens due to the reaction to his evangelism.
The activity of a religious association, aimed at disseminating information about its beliefs among people who are not participants (members, followers) in that religious association, with the purpose of involving these people as participants (members, followers). It is carried out directly by religious associations or by citizens and/or legal entities authorised by them, publicly, with the help of the media, the internet or other lawful means".[12]
Missionary activities may only be performed by authorized members of registered religious groups and organizations....Citizens are also required to report unauthorized religious activity to the government or face fines.[13]
Russia officially recognizes Orthodox Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism as the country’s traditional religions. Evangelical Christians do not fit into one of these categories and are viewed as a dangerous sect. - https://www.christianaid.org/russia
I reached out to William Yoder, a Belarus-based writer on church affairs who has decades of on the ground experience working with Protestant communities in Eastern Europe and Russia, to get his opinion on the current state of affairs. In his view, “the Yarovaya Laws are putting a damper on the budding relationship between the Christian right in the US and the Orthodox in Russia ... by persecuting Protestants, the Russian state is making it considerably more difficult for American Christian conservatives to count themselves among Putin’s right-wing fellow travelers. - https://publicorthodoxy.org/2016/10/25/yarovaya-conservatives-traditional-values/
Missionary activity thus defined is allowed “without restriction” in buildings owned by the religious organization, and various other specially-designated places such as cemeteries, but (reasonably so) not in other religious associations’ property.
Missionary work is not allowed in residences. If there is one takeaway from the law, it should be this.
In other public situations, only the leader of the local religious association (or a designated alternate) is allowed to engage in missionary activities without a special permit – essentially, a legal declaration by the religious association that the carrier is authorized to perform missionary work. This requirement is notably targeted at Russian citizens, but a similar requirement is also required of foreign citizens. (It is my understanding that it is already the Church’s practice is to issue such declarations for missionaries.) Of particular note is the prohibition against missionary work intended to assist in the performance of “extremist activity.” This has been defined by recent legislation extremely broadly,...
One final provision clarifies that only religious services and rites, not missionary work, is allowed to be performed in people’s homes (by reference to the law governing religious meetings held outside of religious buildings). On the face of it, this suggests that anointing for the sick and afflicted is allowed in homes, and perhaps even holding Sacrament Meeting, but no missionary work. As a preventative measure, the provision also prevents the legal conversion of a residence into a religious space, meaning that you can’t just have someone in the branch register their apartment as a church and hold member lessons there. - https://motabredsquare.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/missionary-work-after-the-yarovaya-laws-part-ii-legal-analysis/
n July 6, 2016, Russia passed the “Yarovaya Law,” a package of anti-terrorism amendments to legislation, sections No. 374-FZ and 375-FZ. While it was presented as a way to help combat terrorist activity, and those it deems “extremist,” others refer to it as the “anti-missionary” law.
The legislation requires religious groups and missionaries to obtain government permission to operate and restricts ministry activity of non-registered churches – which mostly include evangelicals and religious minorities. Some of its measures didn’t go into effect until 2018. Among those measures, the government was given access to all data from phone calls, text messages, and other forms of electronic communication.
But more than half of all cases of alleged violations, Christianity Today (CT) reported in 2019, have been against evangelicals. The Yarovaya laws, CT reported, ban Russians from inviting outsiders to join their faith, even online or in their own homes, unless they have a government permit through a registered religious organization. Even with that, they can only evangelize in designated churches and religious sites. - https://missioneurasia.org/yarovaya-law-vs-religious-freedom/
The Russian citizens have every bit as much religious freedom as Americans do and far more so than Canadians do.
Russia adheres and protects Judeo-Christian far more than the West and this country does.
You need to repent for being obsessed with Russia at the expense of ignoring the moral decay in this country and the West.
>REVEALING STATISTICS (or, Present Costs of the War Against God)
Yet true to form, some unreason-able Russian devotees sadly imagine that exposing the iniquity of Russian suppression of evangelicals - which the West seeks to do more of - means one is ignoring the positive aspects of Russia and the negative aspects of the West.
May all comes to Biblical evangelical conversion.
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