Giuliani: Vietnam Was a Victory (Foreign Affairs Magazine)

Haaretz of Israel ^ | 8/15/7 | Shmuel Rosner

[KantianBurke]

Disagree. We never should have gotten involved in that conflict. Once it became clear in 1956 that the result of a nationwide election would be an Ho Chi Minh victory that should have been the handwriting on the wall.

As for draining the Soviets of funds, I am not sure of your source of info on that but the war certainly sucked quite a bit of cash for our treasury. The late 70’s inflation was a consequence of this.

[LS]

Agree. Only here in Freeperville would people bash Rudy for saying what they wish most Republicans would say.

[goldstategop]

Vietnam WAS a victory. It was the Democrats who turned it into a defeat for America. Four decades later, Vietnam is indeed their template on what they would like to make happen in Iraq. Its that damned Bush who stands in the way of histoire redux.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[VOA]

Vietnam's economy and the explosive growth of Christianity there are thriving.

Interesting about the Christianity angle.
IIRC, a mainstream Church of Christ publication said that the Vietnamese
guvmint was really being hard on Christians (at least those that
were in the (sp????) Montagnards region.

Maybe the guvmint has reduced the harassement so the $$$ will flow
in more readily.

[RobbyS]

No, simply pointing out that many who served in uniform in Vietnam were in no more personal danger than those serving stateside. Being in uniform gives one priceless insight into how the military actually functions, and Guilani is worse off not having served. But he seems to be thinking the right thoughts. He stood behind his cops and he probably would stand behind the military. He is not my first choice or even my second , but we could do worse.

[Clemenza]

"Vietnam was a victory" is something I used to hear back in the 80s, when it seemed like every homeless guy claimed to be a veteran and their was an upsurge in boomer guys in general claiming to be vets and "speaking for" the Vietnam vet community.

The politicians lost Vietnam by waging a half-assed "police action" under McNamara, Bundy, and LBJ, and then cutting funding for our South Vietnamese allies in the early 70s, just when things were turning around.

[LZ_Bayonet]

"Many of those who served in Vietnam never heard a shot fired in anger."

Started thinking about this, and realized that some of those who served there and "never heard a shot fired in anger" were KIA there. Probably has happened a few times in Iraq too. Fate.

[RobbyS]

Quarter master troops who sit behind computers are essential to the war effort, but not many get purple hearts.

[TommyDale]

I’m not that forgiving about a guy who wants to serve as Commander In Chief over the U.S. Armed Forces who avoided the service himself. I lost many friends in Vietnam, and I don’t want to hear Rudy Giuliani’s opinion on that war. I don’t trust him to lead America. Period. Go ahead and defend him if you want.

[donozark]

Elections were never held. Massive shift in population from North to South Vietnam occurred after the partition in 1954. In 1957 the International Control Commission ruled neither N. nor S. had followed the armistice agreement. In 1959 at a meeting of the communist committee (N.) it was decided to take up arms against the S.

And the rest we say, is history...

[KantianBurke]

Uh the elections not being held is the point. Ike knew that Ho would sweep to victory over the “Emperor” as things stood in 56. Hence he and the South Vietnamese simply refused to have the elections held. Again, that should have been a loud and clear warning.

[KantianBurke]

Uh the elections not being held is the point. Ike knew that Ho would sweep to victory over the “Emperor” as things stood in 56. Hence he and the South Vietnamese simply refused to have the elections held. Again, that should have been a loud and clear warning.

[Billthedrill]

Depends on what "victory" is supposed to look like, I guess. The problem with limited wars is that this is something that is fairly arbitrary and subject to declaration on the part of persons who weren't even there. Iraq will be the same no matter how it turns out.

North Vietnam achieved its principal strategic objective in that it took over the South. The U.S. achieved its principal strategic objective in delaying and minimizing communist revolution in Southeast Asia. Ultimately I think that Vietnam will be both united and free. Only then will the war really be over. IMHO.

[Grut]

Vietnam was a victory only if our policy was to see a unified communist Vietnam. I don't recall that it was. I do recall that it was the other side's policy, which means it was a victory for them and a loss for us.

Sorry to belabor the obvious but we lost and no amount of historical revisionism is going to change that.

[donozark]

We will never know for certain how elections would have turned out. Most felt the communists would not permit fair elections. Have they ever? The massive influx of so many anti-communists (Catholics mainly) from the N. could have tilted elections in a positive manner.

So fearful was the N. over loss of so many people to the S. (10 to 1 ratio) that they actually stationed troops at key intersections to head off this flight.

The ICC (India, Poland, and Canada) agreed with the perception that free elections were impossible. And in 1959 the N. proceeded to proceed...with war.

[donozark]

I once said," A draft-dodging, whore-monger from nowhere Arkansas will never be President of the USA!" The year was 1992. What the hell do I know about politics?

My problem with Rudy is not so much VN, but rather his virulent anti-RKBA positions over the years.

If Rudy is serious about becoming the Republican nominee then he needs to have a come-to-Jesus meeting with the NRA/GOA/SAF and other pro-RKBA orgs. And soon Rudy...very soon.

[ishabibble]

Here’s one guy who knows for sure how we won in Vietnam.
Lucky for him, we were hanging on Walter Cronkite’s every last lying word.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/7624/Generals/giap.htm

[RobbyS]

The same charge has been laid against Cheney. Given that virtually all the children the national elites avoided service during that war—a relative handful of Ivy league graduates were commisioned, compared with the thousands during WWII—I can’t single out Guilani for special blame. But, of course, sentiment sentiment, unique to all of us and in this matter none is more correct than another.

[TommyDale]

Cheney hasn’t actively campaigned for the job of President, but at least he did serve as a congressman, a Defense Secretary, and Vice President, which certainly gives him more qualifications than a freaking mayor to comment on Vietnam.

[Condor51]

**** Rudy is an expert on VietNam, that is why he avoided the draft. ****

;-)

I guess that while he was dodging the draft he was also studying up on Westmoreland's tactics (besides boinking his cousin at lunch time). Remember when one of his people explained that's WHY he dodged the draft - ole Rudy didn't like the tactics being used (I thought that was pretty funny -- and really STOO-PID^™)

Now who would have guessed it, Rudy is the 2nd coming of Sun Tzu. Heck he'll prolly be publishing his version of The Art of War any day now.