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Illegal immigrants 'are not free-loaders,' says Guatemalan bishop
Catholic News Service ^ | 04.13.05 | Agostino Bono

Posted on 04/21/2005 9:20:39 PM PDT by Coleus

Illegal immigrants 'are not free-loaders,' says Guatemalan bishop

WASHINGTON (CNS) -- Illegal immigrants "are not free-loaders" but hard-working people who are seeking better lives for their families because social and economic improvements are not readily available to the Latin American poor, said a Guatemalan bishop.

"Some call them 'illegals.' But according to the market model, they are better described as entrepreneurs without assets, pursuing the American dream," said Bishop Alvaro Ramazzini Imeri of San Marcos, Guatemala.

"They work hard, often in several jobs, supporting a way of life that many take for granted," he said April 13 in written testimony delivered before the House Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere.

Bishop Ramazzini testified at a hearing on the proposed Central American Free Trade Agreement, known as CAFTA, between the United States and five Central American countries. Negotiators for the six countries have agreed on a text, but the accord still has to be ratified by the United States and several other countries.

Better salaries and better working conditions are the main reasons Latin Americans come to the United States, he said.

Working conditions in Central America will only get worse under the proposed free trade agreement, as this pact threatens "to lock in a much lower level of protection for workers and their families," he added.

"Poor working conditions make for bad economics. Without enforceable labor rights that are part of trade agreements with sanctions for noncompliance applied to them, we will not raise standards of labor and standards of living in my country," said the bishop.

"I know of repeated instances where workers were treated in a way that would be against basic labor law in the United States," he said.

"Industrial workers, equipped with the basic rights to have a say in the workplace, were key to the growth of a middle class in your nation," and formed "a key element in making the United States the economic powerhouse it is today," said Bishop Ramazzini.

"This is not happening in Central America and it will not happen as long as hundreds of thousands of workers are suppressed, not empowered, at the workplace," he said.

Guatemala is among the 10 worst Latin American countries regarding unequal income distribution and needs to develop a strong middle class for economic and political stability, he said.

In Guatemala, 56 percent of the population is poor and 16 percent is extremely poor, he said.

Policies governing trade need to be integrated with development programs if life for the poor is to improve, he said.

"Trade policies need to be complemented by institutional reforms and a broader development framework that affords each person their right to participate in a market that is fair and compassionate," he added.

Bishop Ramazzini also questioned whether Guatemalan farmers could compete with subsidized U.S. agricultural products if tariff barriers were dropped.

"Our farmers are hard-working" but they "cannot compete against the U.S. Treasury and the $170 billion subsidies granted in your farm bill of 2002," he said.

Almost 25 percent of Guatemala's gross national product comes from farming, he said.

The bishop also questioned the long-term benefit of CAFTA to poor countries, saying its approval could override more favorable terms being negotiated worldwide by the World Trade Organization.

"It is widely expected that low-income developing countries, such as Guatemala, will be afforded 'special and differential treatment' under World Trade Organization rules currently being negotiated," he said.

"CAFTA will likely trump such measures that are designed to allow developing countries the time and space to foster integral human development," he said.

Rather than concentrating on making it easier for goods to cross borders, trade pacts "must look at trade policies from the bottom up -- from their impact on the lives and dignity of poor families and vulnerable workers across the hemisphere," he said.

Bishop Ramazzini's testimony is the latest in a series of efforts by Latin American bishops to criticize aspects of free trade agreements being promoted by the United States.

Last June, Bishop Ramazzini was part of a delegation of Central American bishops visiting the United States to discuss their criticisms of CAFTA with church and government officials. Last July, the Central American and U.S. bishops issued a joint statement outlining objections.

In February, a delegation of bishops from the Andean countries in South America visited the United States to air similar criticisms.

Church officials have said that they are not opposed to the concept of free trade, but are objecting to specific treaties they have judged to be prejudicial to the Latin American poor.



TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: aliens; alqaida; bordercontrol; cafta; catholic; catholiclist; closetheborder; farming; farmsubsidies; freeloaders; illegalimmigrants; illegalimmigration; immigration; immigrationlist; ins; latinamerica; terrorists
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To: daguberment
"I've left my door open this night. In the morning, I would be delighted to find a mexican family in my kitchen. Perhaps they would be cooking some tasty enchiladas. Naturally, I will invite them to stay. They may do some work around the house, maybe not, but it's not important. Perhaps, they will get ill and I'll bring them to the hospital and pay their bill. I'm a Republican and I support George W. Bush."

Pleased to meet you, Ben. My name's Fletch.

51 posted on 04/22/2005 6:37:20 AM PDT by NewRomeTacitus ("I never surrendered. They took my horse and made him surrender." - Lone Wati)
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To: Cultural Jihad

" Ah, so you've never driven past the posted speed limit, eh? If so, then you are a . . . CRIMINAL!"

I have NEVER, knowingly or willingly violated any speed limit. I've never received as much as a parking ticket. I'm a conservative that believes in following the law. I should note however that there is a BIG difference between a driving CITATION and a FELONY. (but then again,to you OBB's (Open Border Buddies), violating the law is no big deal as long as it benefits YOU. You should be ashamed of yourself.


52 posted on 04/22/2005 6:52:44 AM PDT by politicalwit (USA...A Nation of Selective Law Enforcement.)
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To: HiJinx

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Be Ever Vigilant!

Minutemen Patriots ~ Bump!


53 posted on 04/22/2005 7:27:45 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: occutegirl
Saying illegal immigration is good for the economy is like saying 911 was a boon for the building industry in lower Manhattan.

Great analogy!
54 posted on 04/22/2005 7:31:49 AM PDT by Serenissima Venezia (Hoping to be a California Vigil Antie for the Minuteman Project)
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To: raybbr; Dane
Prove it. Show me one instance in the history of civilization where a) there was true free trade and b) everybody prospered.

History is full of such examples. Let's start with free trade with the Indians.

55 posted on 04/22/2005 7:34:56 AM PDT by ClintonBeGone (In politics, sometimes it's OK for even a Wolverine to root for a Buckeye win.)
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To: Coleus
This article is very suspect: All I know is the Catholic Churches in my area are some of the worst offenders bringing in illegals for the tax payers to support. They flout it by having pictures on the front page of the local paper showing little Mexicans singing in the kiddie choir displacing little citizens. They brag about directing Grandmas and mamas to- be to our local hospital for free medical care. Also they are guilty of giving illegals identification cards, hoping they can eventually vote.

Also our rust belt state has sent money here for years to have free Hispanic health care fairs.

Most of the world is foaming at the mouth to be able to come to America and steal from the taxpayers. Americans are hated above all other nations because we have made living wages for many years. Because of that, we are sitting ducks here in America, and we have a president who doesn't care about the citizens, or the future of America.

56 posted on 04/22/2005 7:37:56 AM PDT by swampfox98 (Michael Reagan: "It's time to stop the flood.")
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To: jackbenimble
I am happy to have immigrants that contribute more real wealth than they consume. Ignorant people from the third world don't fall into that category and they drag done rather than drag up our GDP per capita.

I may be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that in order to come here legally an applicant had to show a skill that we needed. A friend of mine that came from the Phillipines said she had to prove she had a degree in architecture before she could come live here.
57 posted on 04/22/2005 7:43:04 AM PDT by Serenissima Venezia (Hoping to be a California Vigil Antie for the Minuteman Project)
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To: ClintonBeGone; raybbr
History is full of such examples. Let's start with free trade with the Indians.

Please, do start with the Indians (I assume your referring to the aboriginal peoples within the boundries of the United States from the mid-1600's until the late 1800's).

How exactly did the "Indians" prosper ?

58 posted on 04/22/2005 7:45:36 AM PDT by in the Arena (Life may begin at 30, but it doesn't get real interesting until about 110.)
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To: ClintonBeGone
He's right. With free trade, all the trading partners and their people will prosper.

He's not saying that. He's against CAFTA.

59 posted on 04/22/2005 7:47:50 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Serenissima Venezia
I may be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that in order to come here legally an applicant had to show a skill that we needed.

There are several routes to legal immigration. You are describing one of them. There are green card slots for: skilled workers, unskilled workers, family reunification, refugees, visa lottery winners and I think very rich people like George Soros.

By far the largest category is family reunification. Once one immigrant becomes a citizen he can petition to bring his parents, spouse, children, brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles. And as each of these become citizens they can likewise petition. We end up with chain migration where we import whole villages and tribes and a lot of them are older folks and unskilled folks who represent a taxpayer burden.

This area of our legal immigration policy badly needs reform. We should make family reunification easier, faster and in fact almost automatic but it should be limited strictly to spouse and minor children. Once somebody is a citizen they can always go visit their parents and extended family or have them visit America but the taxpayer should not get stuck with welfare for a bunch of old people and ignorant people who have never contributed anything to the tax base.

60 posted on 04/22/2005 8:01:26 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: jackbenimble
Ignorant people from the third world don't fall into that category and they drag done(sic) rather than drag up our GDP per capita

Thank you, IMO, for showing your true motivation.

61 posted on 04/22/2005 8:04:02 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: jackbenimble

BTW, jack, couldn't America be considered the original "third world" nation. Afterall America took in all the dregs and rejects from Europe(dirty Irish, wop Italians etc.etc.) and prospered beyond their wildest dreams.


62 posted on 04/22/2005 8:07:31 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: in the Arena
How exactly did the "Indians" prosper ?

Let me start by asking you how you prosper from the air you breath? I think the answer to my question is as obvious as the answer to yours.

63 posted on 04/22/2005 8:13:33 AM PDT by ClintonBeGone (In politics, sometimes it's OK for even a Wolverine to root for a Buckeye win.)
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To: Tribune7
He's against CAFTA.

His implication is that trade is good, provided we address the labor and enviromental issues. Since CAFTA, in his mind, doesn't address those things, he's against it. He's no different than the trade union/Buchanan/Perot thugs that fought NAFTA.

64 posted on 04/22/2005 8:16:26 AM PDT by ClintonBeGone (In politics, sometimes it's OK for even a Wolverine to root for a Buckeye win.)
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To: Dane; jackbenimble
You know, I would rather see the US implement a policy whereby they expel their dregs and welcome with open arms those from other countries that are willing to put in an honest day's work. Sometimes it seems to me that folks like Jack would rather have in his country a crack smoking welfare queen than a hard working Mexican bus boy. It makes no sense to me.
65 posted on 04/22/2005 8:18:55 AM PDT by ClintonBeGone (In politics, sometimes it's OK for even a Wolverine to root for a Buckeye win.)
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To: Coleus
this biship/priest character is just another liberal in disguise...

the term that should be applied to these deadbeats is criminal!

66 posted on 04/22/2005 8:20:59 AM PDT by NoClones
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To: Dane
BTW, jack, couldn't America be considered the original "third world" nation. Afterall America took in all the dregs and rejects from Europe(dirty Irish, wop Italians etc.etc.) and prospered beyond their wildest dreams.

Dane, I can do without the implication that my views are racist. I am half Cuban.

As I said before, the defining characteristic of a first world country is labor scarcity. During most of our history we have had a vast unsettled and undeveloped continent to occupy so labor has almost always been scarce and by that definition the answer to your question is: no.

There have been periods in our history where we have had labor greatly in excess of our capacity to create jobs. Once such period was the era in the late 1800s which is referred to as "The Gilded Age" which was characterized by sweatshops, labor exploitation and what came very close to a two-tiered society with the ultra rich industrialists living like royalty. We came close to a third world system then and the result was a backlash and the rise of populist politics, trust busting, inheritance taxes and other similar things and it culminated in the mid-1920s with almost a complete termination of immigration.

Immigration has ebbed and flowed in our history and right now it is at a historical highpoint. I think the backlash is in progress.

67 posted on 04/22/2005 8:26:05 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: TheForceOfOne

[[Alvaro, if you like them so much you have them, bring them into your home. Build a free hospital and put out the word to come live with you. Don't spend other peoples money, spend your own.]]

Force,

I have been thinking about putting together a website called the "illegal alien fund" and see how many liberals will put their money where their mouth is. I'll bet if these very same liberals received a monthly bill of say $300.00/month from the federal goverment titled the "undocumented migrant resettlemnt fund", that they would not be so damn compassionate since when they saw how much it was costing them and they had to write that check every month.

Liberals love to give away everything that they don't own.


68 posted on 04/22/2005 8:29:52 AM PDT by JarheadFromFlorida (Ooorahhhh........Get Some! Semper Fi')
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To: ClintonBeGone
Let me start by asking you how you prosper from the air you breath? I think the answer to my question is as obvious as the answer to yours.

From your reply to raybbr's post I was under the impression that you implied that the "Indians" prospered from free trade. Is this not correct ?

raybbr - Prove it. Show me one instance in the history of civilization where a) there was true free trade and b) everybody prospered.

ClintoBeGone - History is full of such examples. Let's start with free trade with the Indians.

69 posted on 04/22/2005 8:31:04 AM PDT by in the Arena (Life may begin at 30, but it doesn't get real interesting until about 110.)
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To: ClintonBeGone; jackbenimble
Sometimes it seems to me that folks like Jack would rather have in his country a crack smoking welfare queen than a hard working Mexican bus boy. It makes no sense to me

You are correct about that, CBG. People like jack are always talking about the welfare fraud committed by illegal immigrants, but are silent about native born Americans committing the same fraud.

Ronald Reagan, IMO, is rolling in his grave by those who are taking his name in the cause of hispanic animus. Ronald Reagan was against the welfare queen/king, no matter her/his color or creed.

70 posted on 04/22/2005 8:31:52 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: JarheadFromFlorida
So true.

Calling any liberals bluff is like watching a house of cards cave in.
71 posted on 04/22/2005 8:37:48 AM PDT by TheForceOfOne
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To: in the Arena
From your reply to raybbr's post I was under the impression that you implied that the "Indians" prospered from free trade.

Correct.

72 posted on 04/22/2005 8:38:02 AM PDT by ClintonBeGone (In politics, sometimes it's OK for even a Wolverine to root for a Buckeye win.)
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To: knuthom
Why not have a "Guatemalan Dream"? We will share our ideas about liberty, individual responsibility and free enterprise

My ancestors were here before the Revolution. They were here to build this country of ours into something never before seen in the world. That is what the Mexicans and the Guatamalans have to do. They have to get their act together and build the country of their dreams. And STOP coming here and leeching off of what belongs to we Americans. I'm sorry they didn't have the luxury to be born in America like i was. But not everyone can be.
73 posted on 04/22/2005 8:43:21 AM PDT by uncitizen
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To: ClintonBeGone
I would be happy to end welfare and put poor people who are sponging off it to work. As things are now, and as they will be, it is impossible to deport lazy Americans no matter how much you or I might want too.

Once a poor person is a citizen we are stuck with them. I want them to stop being a burden on me and other taxpayers so I think it is in my enlightened self-interest to help them stop being poor. I want them to earn a good wage and that is not going to happen as long as we keep flooding the labor market with an infinite supply of additional poor people willing to work for low poverty wages. And all those poor immigrants bus boys end up sponging off the public largess in one way or another, whether it is free health care, food stamps for their anchor babies or the earned income tax credit.

Poverty is already a big problem in America. I see no reason to import more of it. It makes no sense to me.

74 posted on 04/22/2005 8:45:20 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: jackbenimble; ClintonBeGone
As things are now, and as they will be, it is impossible to deport lazy Americans no matter how much you or I might want too

Nah jack, IMO and with your rhetoric, you want to deport the hard working people, especially the people with Spanish surnames, again JMO.

75 posted on 04/22/2005 8:48:39 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane

That's the second time you've had to use the resort to the race card in this discussion. You've lost the intellectual argument and I'm done discussing it with you.

Please do me the favor of not replying to any of my posts in the future because I have no further interest in conversing with you.

DP


76 posted on 04/22/2005 8:52:55 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: jackbenimble
That's the second time you've had to use the resort to the race card in this discussion. You've lost the intellectual argument and I'm done discussing it with you

Huh when did the people with Spanish surnames become a "race". Oh yeah that's correct under LBJ they did.

77 posted on 04/22/2005 8:54:53 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: daguberment

Your post at #17 speaks for plenty of us.


78 posted on 04/22/2005 9:01:55 AM PDT by truthkeeper (Yeah, I have a 1998 signup date. So?)
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To: ClintonBeGone
History is full of such examples. Let's start with free trade with the Indians.

Thanks for the laugh. If you want to expound on this statement by my guest.

Recently an insightful Freeper upon reading one of your many outrageously bizarre posts speculated that you are really here to purposely undermine your own professed cause for open borders. I think he might be right. If so....Thank You. In any event keep on posting please. It’s good for laughter is nothing else.

79 posted on 04/22/2005 10:33:35 AM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: politicalwit; Admin Moderator
Point of fact: Crossing a border without permission and not immediately consigning oneself for review is an administrative misdemeanor, not a felony, unless there was already a misdemeanor conviction for same.

And lose the "Open Border Buddies" ad hominems, please. There are no open border advocates here.

80 posted on 04/22/2005 10:36:24 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: ClintonBeGone
in the Arena - From your reply to raybbr's post I was under the impression that you implied that the "Indians" prospered from free trade.

ClintoBeGone - Correct.

So, in post 55 and 72 you imply the American Indians prospered under free trade, but in post 63 you imply they did not prosper...

What is it ?

81 posted on 04/22/2005 11:07:20 AM PDT by in the Arena (Life may begin at 30, but it doesn't get real interesting until about 110.)
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To: ClintonBeGone
"He's right. With free trade, all the trading partners and their people will prosper."

The only people who will prosper will be illegal immigrants, government employees, politicians and the financial elite. From the content of your replies that consistently endorse the destruction of our American sovereignty and culture you obviously have a hidden agenda. You are always against the American citizen in favor of the foreign which leads me to believe that you are either a foreigner yourself or so hopelessly liberal that you would put foreign nationals above your own countrymen.
82 posted on 04/22/2005 11:13:42 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: in the Arena; ClintonBeGone

BTW, no flame intended...


83 posted on 04/22/2005 11:13:56 AM PDT by in the Arena (Life may begin at 30, but it doesn't get real interesting until about 110.)
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To: jackbenimble

Yes but Mexico has a great deal of Oil, monies from this could be used to help all of us. The would lower tha Oil imported to the US from Islamic countries and would offer greater exploration of oil in the Mexican areas.


84 posted on 04/22/2005 11:38:38 AM PDT by 26lemoncharlie (Defend the US CONSTITUTION - Locked and Loaded)
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To: 26lemoncharlie
Yes but Mexico has a great deal of Oil, monies from this could be used to help all of us.

Mexico has quite a lot of oil. It is cheaper to buy it from them then it is to take responsibility for their 100 million poor people.

85 posted on 04/22/2005 12:16:48 PM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: Coleus
Blah, blah, blah, AND blah...
The 'Bishop' ought to remember that he represents the Kingdom of God and not the world. As such a representative he should emphasize to his flock that:

God hates a liar.
It is wrong to deceive.
There is no dishonor in being poor.
And, unless it is contrary to the laws of God, we are to follow the laws of the civil government.

It sounds like this 'Bishop' did his seminary work studying the art of social relativism and Karl Marx rather than eternal truths of the Bible...

86 posted on 04/22/2005 12:17:54 PM PDT by El Cid
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To: jackbenimble

Just an Idea, Let's build a double wall out of Concrete topped with chainlink and razor wire and in between the walls put in land mines. Seperate Entrances points for people and trade goods. Mexican trucks deliver to the border warehouses, good are inspected and transportation into the country done by us truckers only. Create jobs, control the border and know who is in th ecountry.

To locate illegal immigrants:

Place a large fine w/jail time for companies who are employing illegals

Place a bounty on all illegal immigrants.

Parents of anychild born in the US must be US Citizens or Legal Documented immigrants.

Deportation cost and any medical or housing costs will be charged to the person Home Country.

All legal immigrants must check in with the local court house where they are living every 6 months or when they move, they must check in within 30 days otherwise deportation procedings will commence.

If US Citizenship is desired, this will not be a problem. The cost of freedom is to high to just give our citizenship away.


87 posted on 04/22/2005 12:27:59 PM PDT by 26lemoncharlie (Defend the US CONSTITUTION - Locked and Loaded)
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To: in the Arena
So, in post 55 and 72 you imply the American Indians prospered under free trade, but in post 63 you imply they did not prosper...

Sorry if you misinterpreted my implication. That isn't an accurate reading of my point, which is that native americans have prospered under free trade.

88 posted on 04/22/2005 12:30:54 PM PDT by ClintonBeGone (In politics, sometimes it's OK for even a Wolverine to root for a Buckeye win.)
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To: dljordan; Dane
The only people who will prosper will be illegal immigrants, government employees, politicians and the financial elite. From the content of your replies that consistently endorse the destruction of our American sovereignty and culture you obviously have a hidden agenda.

So instead of free trade, america should adopt your ideal model of international economics and quality of life - North Korea?

89 posted on 04/22/2005 12:32:47 PM PDT by ClintonBeGone (In politics, sometimes it's OK for even a Wolverine to root for a Buckeye win.)
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To: jackbenimble
Once somebody is a citizen they can always go visit their parents and extended family or have them visit America but the taxpayer should not get stuck with welfare for a bunch of old people and ignorant people who have never contributed anything to the tax base.

Ain't that the truth! We have enough of our own deadbeats without importing more. It seems crazy that an elderly person that never paid into our system could come here and draw SS and Medicare benefits. I don't imagine I could decide to move to Italy [or insert any other country here] when I'm 65 and receive a pension from that country. It's meant for those that paid into it their whole lives.

Somedays, when I think of the mess liberals have made of the U.S., I think our country is so far gone that I just want to give up. Luckily, so far, I wake up each day with renewed energy and motivation. But it is very frustrating!
90 posted on 04/22/2005 12:35:26 PM PDT by Serenissima Venezia (Hoping to be a California Vigil Antie for the Minuteman Project)
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To: NewRomeTacitus

but hard-working people who are seeking better lives for their families .................

besides raping children and sodomizing nuns I mean!!


91 posted on 04/22/2005 12:46:20 PM PDT by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: Coleus

I wish someone would have asked the Bishop what percentage of Guatemala's population should be allowed to immigrate here unimpeded. Then we might have a better idea of his unstated agenda.


92 posted on 04/22/2005 12:50:28 PM PDT by 3AngelaD
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To: dljordan
The only people who will prosper will be illegal immigrants, government employees, politicians and the financial elite. From the content of your replies that consistently endorse the destruction of our American sovereignty and culture you obviously have a hidden agenda.

In other words, free trade will create tension between the industrialists and the proletariat, leading to the collapse of capitalism. Where have I heard that before? [scratching chin]

93 posted on 04/22/2005 12:51:18 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: jackbenimble
http://english.people.com.cn/200402/28/eng20040228_136085.shtml

"At the forum called "China's Influence on Future of Mexico" held in Monterrey, a city in the north of Mexico, the ambassador disclosed that China had expressed its hope to import oil from Mexico. Mexico is not producing oil enough to export to China. But the National Oil Company of Mexico is considering increasing its oil output to meet the needs."

94 posted on 04/22/2005 12:55:01 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: ClintonBeGone

"So instead of free trade, america should adopt your ideal model of international economics and quality of life - North Korea?"

I see by your reference to North Korea you are trying to place anyone who disagrees with you on a par with the commies. What liberal, Delphi method, think-tank were you trained in? Why did you copy Dane on this? Were you hoping to get one of your friends to help pile on? We don't have free trade now. So-called free trade is killing us because it is balanced in favor of other nations.

You are not an American are you?


95 posted on 04/22/2005 12:59:03 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: monkeywrench
Mexico is not producing oil enough to export to China.

What is your point? Oil is totally fungible. Once it is on the market it can be sold to anybody. There is one world wide supply and one world wide demand. A lot of our oil produced in Prudhoe Bay ends up in Japan. We have no particular claim to being the exclusive market for Mexican oil and the Mexicans would be fools to not sell oil to whomsoever will pay the most for it.

96 posted on 04/22/2005 1:07:27 PM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: Cultural Jihad

"Point of fact: Crossing a border without permission and not immediately consigning oneself for review is an administrative misdemeanor, not a felony, unless there was already a misdemeanor conviction for same."

So it's OK to jump the border, illegally obtain a false ID (Felony ID theft), misuse of a SSN, obtain a driver's license with falsified identification, drive with no insurance, utilize state and federal services not entitled to receive, use private services without paying.

I find it ironic that when Jorge Bush was governor of Texas he thought the problem with illegals was important enough to petition the Clinton Administration to recoup expenses by the state for enforcing federal laws relating to illegal aliens. Why the change? It's apparent that Bush is as crooked as Clinton. How much is the pay-off? It's obvious that Bush has to kiss the arse of Big Business.

" And lose the "Open Border Buddies" ad hominems, please. There are no open border advocates here."

Now there's a laugh!!!!!!!!


97 posted on 04/22/2005 1:29:06 PM PDT by politicalwit (USA...A Nation of Selective Law Enforcement.)
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To: dljordan
I see by your reference to North Korea you are trying to place anyone who disagrees with you on a par with the commies.

I don't have to do that - I think the readers can already make that connection based on your comments. I'm simply saying if you don't like the free trade model, do you suggest we adopt the North Korean model of trade and lifestyle?

98 posted on 04/22/2005 2:46:26 PM PDT by ClintonBeGone (In politics, sometimes it's OK for even a Wolverine to root for a Buckeye win.)
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To: jackbenimble

[[Please do me the favor of not replying to any of my posts in the future because I have no further interest in conversing with you.]]

Jack,

This guy is a baiter as you well know. Evidence refutes liberalism and when they can no longer defend the indefensible, they resort to name calling and insinuations of racism. You cleaned his clock and exposed him at the same time so not much more he can do. Good work!


99 posted on 04/22/2005 2:58:23 PM PDT by JarheadFromFlorida (Ooorahhhh........Get Some! Semper Fi')
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To: dljordan; wardaddy; Travis McGee; Boot Hill; Dead Corpse; in the Arena; shellshocked; HiJinx; ...
"You are not an American are you?"

I doubt you will see an answer. One trait shared by all of our resident FOQNA loons is an aversion to any question about citizenship or national loyalties. If you show any signs of being a loyal American, especially if you believe in American sovereignty, the protection of our borders and the preservation of American culture, customs and language, you will be called a racist. When they start the race baiting, that means you have won the debate.

It is a despicable little hyena pack that always puts America last.

100 posted on 04/22/2005 3:07:54 PM PDT by Czar (StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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