Skip to comments.Pope Set To Return To Traditional Liturgy
Posted on 06/19/2005 9:33:26 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
Pope set to return to traditional liturgy:-
VATICAN CITY | June 19, 2005 5:11:27 AM IST
Pope Benedict XVI wants to restore the traditional ceremonial Mass in St. Peter's Basilica, with Latin instead of the vernacular and Gregorian chants.
Vatican expert Sandro Magister reported in his weekly newsletter Saturday that the pope is expected to replace Archbishop Pietro Marini, his predecessor Pope John Paul II's master of liturgical ceremonies.
Whoever follows Marini will have orders to restore the traditional style and choreography of papal ceremonies in St. Peter's.
Out will go the international Masses so dear to Pope John Paul II's heart, with such innovations as Latin American and African rhythms and even dancing, multi-lingual readings and children in national costumes bringing gifts to the altar.
Pope Benedict wants to return to the Sistine Chapel choirs singing Gregorian chant and the church music of such composers as Claudio Monteverdi from the 17th century. He also wants to revive the Latin Mass.
Archbishop Marini always planned the ceremonies with television in mind, Magister said, and that emphasis will remain. A decade ago the Vatican set up a system for transmitting papal ceremonies world wide via multiple satellites.
Whether the Mass is said in Aramaic, Greek, Latin, English, Armenian, etc we shouldn't get (imo) too polemical about in what language mass should be said.
The Mass is about the action of Jesus as priest and victim and the language is secondary. We have always had one Mass; many Liturgues, riutes etc; but one Mass since the Last Supper
That is not intended to be a reference to something we do.
God will separate the chaff from the wheat, and they will burn in hell forever and ever.
That is not our job.
Please, give it up. It's so obvious you don't know what you are talking about.
Most of the Latin in the Traditional Latin Mass is not meant to be heard by the congregation.
The priest will say the first few words of the Prayer and you know where you are. "Credo in unum deum..." And you know, "We're at the Creed" His physical gestures state as much as the language he is praying in.
The Mass is not a Protestant service. You are a witness to an event, being presented in front of you. You don't even need a sermon for a Mass.
As far as dumbing it down in the vernacular goes, that is true. The French translation says God the Father and Jesus Christ are of the same nature instead of consubstantial. Nature and substance don't mean the same thing and there is an openness towards Arianism in the vernacular.
And as far as regulating the Bible. The current climate of nutjobs who run around spouting off nonsense about what they read in the Apocalypse is enough to warrant the Church's stance on approving translations and exegesis.
And, there are plenty of long necks in Salem Mass. that have nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
That's not a "Latin vs. English" problem; it's a "Latin vs. stupid ICEL translation" problem.
"Et cum spiritu tuo" translates, exactly, into English as "And with your spirit," or (if you prefer the familiar second-person, which doesn't exist in Latin) "And with thy spirit". (And "And with your spirit" is exactly how it used to be rendered in English translations of the Mass prior to 1970, and exactly how the Byzantine rite uses it today.)
It is not "And also with you", but ICEL (=Illiterate Crud in English Liturgy) wants you to think it is.
Oh C'mon now you're being silly. You're really laying the old canards on thick.
No, the Church never said this, but rather the bible should be taught by those with the appointed authority to do so, the Church.
Even Martin Luther regretted the whole private interpretation thing when the "commoners" used it as an excuse to attack and pillage the nobles. Not one of the founders of any Protestant religion wanted each individual commoner to interpret the bible for themselves, the "de"- formers wanted to claim the rightful authority of the Church for themselves, they wanted the commoners to believe their non authoritative, fallible, personal interpretation.
And burned John Hus alive.
Really you don't say? What a completely horrible thing. So unlike the warm and fuzzy man who started the religion you believe; who said this:
"Those who refuse to give up the Catholic Faith must be put to the sword." --John Calvin
You're making me lose any respect I had for you, not for all Calvinists, just you.
General Audience June 8, 2005. Pope Benedict's exegesis of Psalm 110
In sum, the Psalm invites us at the end to discover all the good things the Lord gives us every day. We see more easily the negative aspects of our life. The Psalm invites us to see the positive also, the many gifts we receive, and so find gratitude, as only a grateful heart can celebrate worthily the liturgy of thanksgiving, the Eucharist.
That can be done in English or Latin.
Servetus fled to Geneva because it was safer than going to the Catholic regions of Europe...
Cute Calvin quote, but no cite.
"Servetus fled to Geneva because it was safer than going to the Catholic regions of Europe..."
If I recall correctly, the trip to Geneva ultimately didn't prove too successful for him, either.
You said Pope Benedict has been a disappointment because
...much of the Church throughout the Western world is doing its own thing... so many Catholics regard abortion as OK, and their local churches support them in that view.
Are you saying that JPII left the Church in a mess?
No argument here at all, it's ICEL's translation debacle that's one of the greatest abominations in modern liturgy. But strictly speaking, he's still right: Latin is not essential, and that's a point that needs to be recognized.
Well said Campion. The Anglican Use has "And with thy spirit." English done right has a beauty to it as well.
The best thing right now is to change the mass back to what it was, there would be less problems in the church and over the world, many priest and bishops say this. The Pope knows for a fact this will help the church overall.
"Latin is not essential, and that's a point that needs to be recognized."
Why? To what other class of thing would we apply a "not essential" test?
How about dental anasthetics?
"They're not essential."
"But it's immensely better to use them than not."
"But they're not essential."
Where is that argument going?
Latin doesn't have to be "essential," whatever that might mean, before we can say that it's immensely better to use it than not.
The Anglican Use Book of Divine Worship also includes the Episcopal Church's Book of Common Prayer 1979 "inclusive language Psalter" and the ICET (interfaith) texts ("and also with you.).
With an Imprimatur from - of all people - Bernard Cardinal Law.
Not at all, but if my house is burning down I wouldn't be doing the gardening!
I'm not passing judgement on B16. I pray his pontificate will be one for the ages.
Perhaps it says more about my expectations than anything happening in Rome.
Why, on God's earth, would I be trying to confuse any issue?
Are you saying I'm less of a Catholic because I attend an english-speaking Mass?
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