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FR Debate: Intelligent Design vs. Birth Defects, Can They Be Reconciled?
Discovery Health & Multiple Medical Sites ^ | 11/11/05

Posted on 11/11/2005 4:47:36 PM PST by Wolfstar

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To: js1138
[ You've jus made a lot of parent's day. ]

You can pick your nose but you cannot pick your relatives especially your ancestors.. Some gene pools have been pee'ed in.. possibly ALL gene pools have been pee'ed in..

121 posted on 11/11/2005 6:04:15 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: js1138

No, I lurk on your threads. Whenever you guys run out of argument, then you accuse every single person of lying. It can be a preacher, a little homemaker from Kentucky who wouldn't lie if she had a mouthful, or it can be God Himself. They all lie. You guys though are paragons of virtue.


122 posted on 11/11/2005 6:05:01 PM PST by zeeba neighba (no crocs!)
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To: Wolfstar

Why not-don't expect creation to be perfectly self correcting when it is not functioning in it's originally intended realm.all of creation groans under the weight of sin in the world.


123 posted on 11/11/2005 6:05:02 PM PST by Farmer Dean (Every time a toilet flushes,another liberal gets his brains.)
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To: Tom Bombadil
My understanding is that intelligent design theory pivots on the principle of irreducible complexity at the molecular level. To proponents of ID, IC describes molecular processes and systems that fail when any element of the process or system is defective or missing. It seems to me that birth defects could be potential illustrations of such failure.
Does the existence of birth defects prove that any potential designer wasn't very intelligent? Good question. Does the existence of death do the same thing?

Thank you so very much, Tom Bombadil. This is exactly the kind of information I hoped to obtain. I must say that I don't understand your first paragraph; not due to the way it was written, but to my own lack of a scientific education. Is there a way you can explain it for a layman?

Does the existence of birth defects prove that any potential designer wasn't very intelligent? Good question. Does the existence of death do the same thing?

I chose birth defects with which to frame my question, but your question about the existence of death -- even the existence of so many ways to die -- is also pertinent.

124 posted on 11/11/2005 6:05:18 PM PST by Wolfstar (Whatever happened to "These Colors Don't Run?")
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To: heartwood
I'm not sure Wolfstar was ridiculing...

Thank you, heartwood. I wasn't. You're question, "Why were they created to die so soon," is heartbreaking. What I was hoping is that people who believe in ID could explain their point of view about such tragedies in the context of the theory.

125 posted on 11/11/2005 6:09:02 PM PST by Wolfstar (Whatever happened to "These Colors Don't Run?")
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To: hosepipe

Why don't you just ping heartwood and ask her whether she or her parents or grandparents engaged in "long term inbreeding and incest... or chronic drug abuse including alcohol"?

Since sins only affect us unto the third or fourth generation, it shouldn't be hard to track down.


126 posted on 11/11/2005 6:09:21 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138
. . . particulary when the people doing it are motivated by religion.

Who is not motivated by religion? Why should perjury be considered "interesting?" Like birth defects, it is a sad fact of life. Maybe you consider it "interesting" to gaze upon open wounds. Maybe you like to roll around in other people's lies like a pig in filth. You may think yourself above perjury, and maybe you are. But you are not above death itself. Unless, of course, you are morally perfect from birth.

127 posted on 11/11/2005 6:10:31 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: js1138

There is no standard of morality anyone can hold an athiest to.


128 posted on 11/11/2005 6:10:34 PM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: js1138

/there's something really wrong with you


129 posted on 11/11/2005 6:11:06 PM PST by zeeba neighba (no crocs!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"Soon it will be a sin of parents to have a child that carries the heavy burden of genetic disease. We are entering a world where we have to consider the quality of our children."

Why do these scientists think we should take them seriously when they reveal their hypocrisy in their own statements. If it's a sin, then they accept an objective moral standard outside themselves such as God. But if they did accept God then they would value life as a creation in the image of God. So these scientists are hypocrites from the very start.

The scientist's concerns about the "quality" of our children is just a code phrase for genetic selections. the problem is, whose genetic ideal is to be followed? Clearly Hitler lead the way in their mindset with the pure Aryan race and his efforts to pay attention to the "quality" of our children. These scientists are nothing more than latter day Nazis at heart...but would rather couch their bigotry as concern.

130 posted on 11/11/2005 6:12:31 PM PST by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: lonestar67
I strongly believe this is a transcendent purpose within the intelligent design. This means that deformities (as we see them) are part of that ironic process whereby we recognize our limits of judgment.

Not a challenge, but a legitimate attempt to understand: Does the ID theory hold that what we may see as deformities or flaws are not really flaws at all, but merely a means to instruct us in our limitations?

131 posted on 11/11/2005 6:12:32 PM PST by Wolfstar (Whatever happened to "These Colors Don't Run?")
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To: zeeba neighba
You guys though are paragons of virtue

Scientists are not more truthful than other people because they are better people, but because they face a 100 percent chance of being caught, at least in their professional lives.

132 posted on 11/11/2005 6:12:59 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Liberty Wins
Are you the Wolfstar who does the marvelous photo series, "A Day in the Life of President Bush?"

I am merely one of the several volunteer custodians of that daily thread.

133 posted on 11/11/2005 6:14:02 PM PST by Wolfstar (Whatever happened to "These Colors Don't Run?")
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To: js1138

You lie in stating you are "amused." You are angry at the slightest suggestion you may be morally inferior to anyone but yourself. The grave is not an "implied" threat. Ask Adam. Ask anyone. Or do you have a doctor who with the answer to all birth defects?


134 posted on 11/11/2005 6:14:39 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Wolfstar; All

Ok, Then I have this to add; to those who believe in GOD,there is more than enough evidense for HIM. For those who do not believe; there is never will be enough evidense, for them to believe.

I for one have to believe, my son has taught me that. :)


135 posted on 11/11/2005 6:14:42 PM PST by TMSuchman (2nd Generation U.S. MARINE, 3rd Generation American & PROUD OF IT!)
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To: Wolfstar
Wolfstar, you are too intelligent not to believe in a higher Power, and you have thrown us a Doozy.

I have no hope of being able to understand how we got here. But maybe the real question is, why are we here? If we are here to make money and collect toys, then no amount of discussion about the Big Bang or evolution has any meaning because we are only the product of the material world and cease to exist when we die.

However, put yourself in the place of an all-powerful Being. If you wanted to send your children to a school where they would develop and grow, would you put them in a soft, protective environment, or rather a place where they would be challenged? Maybe the whole purpose of tragedy is our reaction to it.

136 posted on 11/11/2005 6:14:52 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: TN4Liberty
No you aren't.

TN4Liberty, you really shouldn't go about calling someone a liar when you don't have any reason to do so.

I am very interested in exploring the concept of intelligent design. How can it's proponents hope to gain wide acceptance of the theory without being prepared to discuss and explain it cooly and rationally?

137 posted on 11/11/2005 6:17:06 PM PST by Wolfstar (Whatever happened to "These Colors Don't Run?")
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
There is no standard of morality anyone can hold an athiest to.

I have no practical way of separating actual Christians from hypocrites. In my experience the public profession of faith is not an indicator of trustworthiness.

138 posted on 11/11/2005 6:18:26 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: highlander_UW
New Study Fuels Controversy Over Down Syndrome Abortions - "What I see today in America is in many respects the repeat of the eugenics era of American history back in the early 1900s, where infants were allowed to starve to death because they had deformities or abnormalities, where it was suggested that people who did not have the appropriate brain power should be sterilized or not allowed to have children"
139 posted on 11/11/2005 6:18:26 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe; All

Then let the fight begin here. I will defend my family to the death of many of those who will try to condem my son & family!


140 posted on 11/11/2005 6:19:28 PM PST by TMSuchman (2nd Generation U.S. MARINE, 3rd Generation American & PROUD OF IT!)
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