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Catholic Analysis: Mariology is Biblical
Vivificat! - A Catholic Blog of Commentary and Opinion ^ | 27 December 2005 | Teˇfilo

Posted on 12/27/2005 8:38:08 AM PST by Teˇfilo

Folks, my blogger colleague, Oswald Sobrino of Catholic Analysis, has written a good essay regarding "Mariology," that is, the theological study and liturgical recognition of the place of Mary, the Mother of the Lord, the Theotokos, in the economy of salvation. It is entitled Mariology is Biblical. Here's an extract:

Mater Ter Admirabilis - SchoenstattOne of the great stumbling blocks for our Protestant brethren who are on the verge of crossing the Tiber, i.e., entering into full communion with the Catholic Church, is the great attention paid to the Mother of Jesus by Catholics. This hesitation is understandable: Protestantism is a reaction against Catholicism, and one of the reactions has been, historically, to exile the Mother of Jesus from salvation history. In recent times, some Protestants have sought to correct this strange exile of the Mother of God by looking back to the writings of the Church Fathers and to the early ecumenical councils, especially the fifth century Council of Ephesus. Yet, even Catholics can have a hard time responding to the insistent Protestant plea that to venerate Mary is to somehow detract from the one Mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

...

The crux of the matter is that Mary's extraordinary mediation as Mother of Jesus derives from and is included in the unique mediatorship of Christ himself. What we ask our Protestant brethren to consider prayerfully, and, yes, quite biblically, is that the mediatorship of Christ is inclusive and admits of and even insists upon our participation. If we participate, as Paul did, then certainly the one whom the ecumenical Council of Ephesus termed the "Mother of God" or "God-bearer" in 431 A.D. does also. Interestingly, today, even some conservative evangelical Protestant scholars openly refer to Mary as "Mother of God" based on the significance they ascribe to the Council of Ephesus. They are discovering the riches of the faith preserved for them through the centuries preceding the Reformation by none other than the Catholic Church.

- I urge all of you to read the entire piece at Catholic Analysis.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: mariology; prayingatajewishmama; theotokos; virginmary
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To: RobbyS

OH MY Goodness, am I a dork?!?

Now I see it. (slinks away horribly embarassed)


101 posted on 12/27/2005 11:02:04 PM PST by netmilsmom (God blessed me with a wonderful husband.)
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To: netmilsmom; Buggman; xzins
Sorry if you don't like it but until Alouette or SJackson confirm that the same people are on the Jewish threads telling them that their doctrine is wrong, they are just Anti-Catholic.

Over 90% of the religion forum is Catholic Threads. About 9% are Protestant and reformed threads. The Mormons used to post here on occasion, but they were generally mistreated by Catholics and Protestants alike.

Quite frankly I have never even seen a "Jewish Thread". I see a lot of Israel Threads but I suspect there are few, if any, Jewish Threads. Most of the time when the Protestants show up on a Catholic Thread it is because the Thread is a criticism of Protestant Doctrines or beliefs or a thread celebrating the conversion of some important protestant heretic.

Again, this is a public forum. In that sense there are no exclusive Catholic or exclusive Protestant threads. If you don't like people criticizing your beliefs and practices, then quit posting threads about your beliefs and practices. It's that simple. But it seems to me that whenever a critic of Catholic practices or doctrine makes a point, the response is generally to accuse the poster of being an anti-Catholic Bigot, which of course means that you are out of scriptural ammunition and you must therefore respond with personal adhominem attacks.

Most of the criticism of Catholic Practices and doctrines is backed up by the authority of scripture. Now you may have your own ways of interpreting that scripture, but most of your critics stand on the authority of scripture, so they are being honest and sincere in their assessment of your beliefs and practices. Quite frankly bowing before a statute and praying to some saint does, IMHO, look like idolatry. It may not "technically" be idolatry and I'm sure you have some tradition to mix with scripture to justify it, but frankly I find no scriptural justification for it and it looks like idolatry to me. So if I rely on scripture for my position and you claim that my position is "anti-Catholic" then perhaps your argument is not with me. Perhaps the scripture itself is "Anti-Catholic." Perhaps a reformation is in order.

Oh wait, we already had one.

It was your tacit accusation that I (or Buggman) was an Anti-Catholic Troll that got me started on this thread. I had simply posted a quick note to Buggman that this was probably a thread he should avoid. You couldn't leave it alone. Oh well.

Nuff said.

I'm outa here. Please don't ping me back here.

Thank you.

Marlowe

102 posted on 12/27/2005 11:49:08 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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Sorry you couldn't take the truth.


103 posted on 12/28/2005 12:12:13 AM PST by netmilsmom (God blessed me with a wonderful husband.)
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To: Hieronymus

Semantics and you know it.

warm regards.


104 posted on 12/28/2005 2:41:56 AM PST by vimto (Life isn't a dry run)
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To: Conservative til I die
Not aware of any mindless kneejerk - if you are referring to my first post - you might note that I apologized for it's intemperate phrasing. But the content is true enough.
105 posted on 12/28/2005 2:44:20 AM PST by vimto (Life isn't a dry run)
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To: freedumb2003
I'm not aware I have insulted anyone - unless you confuse a viewpoint with an insult, in which case continued debate with you would be futile.

Mary isn't appearing to anyone - never has. Psychological manifestations and maybe evil spirits set out to confused Catholics (and seems to have seceded). You will see what you want to see - you have highly suggestible people in your church just as we have in ours - it just expresses itself in different ways.

Mary is held in high regard by me as a Christian. She was singularly blessed. She was also a sinner saved by grace.

Kind regards.
106 posted on 12/28/2005 2:52:32 AM PST by vimto (Life isn't a dry run)
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To: P-Marlowe
you may have your own ways of interpreting that scripture, but most of your critics stand on the authority of scripture,

But YOPIOS says our interpretation is just as good as yours. Isn't that how it works?
107 posted on 12/28/2005 4:29:44 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: vimto

>>But the content is true enough.<<

You are looking stupider and stupider.


108 posted on 12/28/2005 4:41:30 AM PST by netmilsmom (God blessed me with a wonderful husband.)
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To: netmilsmom
Do whatever he tells you

Well done! The most important instructions left to us!

109 posted on 12/28/2005 5:10:49 AM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: freedumb2003

>> Well done! The most important instructions left to us!<<

But to those whose Jesus is better than my Jesus, Mary is just some chick on the street, so the first words or the last words mean no more to them then my words right now.


110 posted on 12/28/2005 5:21:19 AM PST by netmilsmom (God blessed me with a wonderful husband.)
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To: netmilsmom
But to those whose Jesus is better than my Jesus, Mary is just some chick on the street, so the first words or the last words mean no more to them then my words right now.

Catholoic bashing, and Mary bashing within that, is the only persecution allowed. Even here on FR.

If people said abut Jews what they do about Catholic they would be banned.

111 posted on 12/28/2005 5:25:03 AM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: freedumb2003

>> Catholoic bashing, and Mary bashing within that, is the only persecution allowed. Even here on FR.

If people said abut Jews what they do about Catholic they would be banned.<<

That is the point I made to P-Marlowe, the "one who will not be pinged here" and was told, just as when we state facts of our doctrine, "Nope, not true because I just don't believe it."
It's amazing to me that the Anti-Catholics who would never dare be Anti-Jew don't even see it.

(want to be an Anti-Catholic Troll hunter?)


112 posted on 12/28/2005 5:29:14 AM PST by netmilsmom (God blessed me with a wonderful husband.)
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To: netmilsmom
(want to be an Anti-Catholic Troll hunter?)

I'm an ex-Catholic but I still have respect for The Church and her adherents.

I really don't like the treatment it gets, especially here.

113 posted on 12/28/2005 5:35:48 AM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: netmilsmom
But to those whose Jesus is better than my Jesus, Mary is just some chick on the street, so the first words or the last words mean no more to them then my words right now.

Actually, the impression that I get from some of the MYIBTYJ folks is that Mary was nothing more than a uterus for Zeus...er, God to use to sire His son.

Like Fr. Corapi says, if you can drill Mariology down to its pure, simple essence, it's this: If she's good enough for Jesus, she's good enough for us.
114 posted on 12/28/2005 5:36:05 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: freedumb2003
Catholoic bashing, and Mary bashing within that, is the only persecution allowed. Even here on FR.

For reals, yo. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a very anti-Catholic place, and it's encouraged, if not merely tolerated by the Admins.
115 posted on 12/28/2005 5:37:25 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: freedumb2003

Well God Bless you!!!!!
That's my whole thing, you respect us, we'll respect you and all of us will be happy.

I don't get the superiority complex of some of these people!


116 posted on 12/28/2005 5:38:19 AM PST by netmilsmom (God blessed me with a wonderful husband.)
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To: netmilsmom
That's my whole thing, you respect us, we'll respect you and all of us will be happy.

Truer words were never spoken (typed?).

117 posted on 12/28/2005 5:39:30 AM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: NYer
What I find strange is how few would deny Eve's role in what would be our condemnation yet waiver at Mary's role in our salvation. I guess it's because Eve's story is all laid out there in the front of the Bible. Even those who haven't read through the Old and New Testament have at least made it through those first few pages.

It was clearly God's intent to show that after being hailed by an evil detractor of God (the serpent) Eve chose to disobey God and take upon her the one banned fruit. She then bore this fruit to man bringing death to us all. Few would dispute Eve's role in these events and her role in our fallen state.

But many of those same people refuse to see the role of the new "Eve" in Mary. That after being hailed by an Angle of the Lord Mary chose to obey God and take upon her self our one hope Jesus. She then bore this fruit to man bringing life to us all. All of this through the Grace of God.

That we would sooner believe one woman's role in our condemnation than another in our salvation is pitiful.

118 posted on 12/28/2005 5:46:23 AM PST by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: Conservative til I die

>>For reals, yo. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a very anti-Catholic place, and it's encouraged, if not merely tolerated by the Admins.<<

And this is why the Anti-Catholic troll hunters started. (Notice how the graphic never went up on this thread-it takes a lot to warrant it)
We got beat on all the time. We were expected to constantly defend our position from the point of view of Sola Scriptura, WHICH WE DON'T BELIEVE IN!!
When I realized that I read tons of threads from the Jewish FReepers and never had a single person ask them to defend their beliefs, it happened!
The only way to get these "Christians" to understand how classless they are being is to point it out. Like garlic to a vampire, they squirm when one focuses on it.

As I stated before, they get the same degree of polite from me that they pass out.


119 posted on 12/28/2005 5:58:52 AM PST by netmilsmom (God blessed me with a wonderful husband.)
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To: Buggman
By calling Mary the "Mother of God" we put God under her authority.

That's not what it went to, at least not originally. Personally, I have no problem with "mother of God" because I recognize that its adoptation goes to combating the Nestorian heresy. Mary was called the "Mother of God" in order to convey that Christ was not some kind of Siamese twin of divine and human, but that the two were intextricably linked. Mary was not just the mother of a man; she was the mother of God incarnate. She really and truly was the Mother of God.

Now, its not the Catholic's fault that the term became abused by idiots who don't understand their theology. No informed Christian could possibly believe that the Almighty was born from Mary. Trinitarianism remains intact in all but the most foolish minds.

120 posted on 12/28/2005 6:15:00 AM PST by jude24 ("Thy law is written on the hearts of men, which iniquity itself effaces not." - St. Augustine)
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