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Government Goons Murder Puppies!The drug war goes to the dogs.
Reason ^ | April 2006 | Radley Balko

Posted on 04/05/2006 12:57:02 PM PDT by JTN

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To: immigration lady

Damn well said.


51 posted on 04/05/2006 2:09:40 PM PDT by KoRn
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To: SampleMan
My point is that I don't connect the dots on bad cops = legalize drugs, which is what seemed to be getting advocated. Completely separate issues. If drugs are legalized, the bad cop issue still isn't addressed.

You put a different bend on it, but I think you, like me, see this whole article as a red herring.

52 posted on 04/05/2006 2:11:41 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Hobbit Hole knives for soldiers! www.freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net)
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To: SampleMan

Why are they emptying their pockets without a search warrant? Likely something here I'd completely agree with you about.

My point is that I don't connect the dots on bad cops = legalize drugs, which is what seemed to be getting advocated. Completely separate issues. If drugs are legalized, the bad cop issue still isn't addressed.
___________________________________________________________

Oh, I don't condone legalizing drugs in any way shape or form. My problem is the way they are allowed to sieze property and the citized has to "prove" it is gotten by legal means later in court. Large sums of cash carried by people...to authorities that means only drug money.

As for illegal search, when pulled over in certain areas, all they need is probable cause and they can rip your vehicle apart if they choose. Large sums of cash to them is probable cause. They just ask about drugs, weapons, large sums of cash, etc.


53 posted on 04/05/2006 2:14:11 PM PDT by MadeInAmerica (- If ILLEGAL means Undocumented - Then Bank Robber means Wealth Redistribution)
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To: immigration lady

I agree with you. My dog Max is my best friend. More than once he has placed himself between me and danger. This single German Sheppard has ten times the courage of the SWAT team cowering behind the building at Columbine.


54 posted on 04/05/2006 2:20:52 PM PDT by TheDane
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
That tyrant in Phoenix should be run out of office. Unfortunately, the gullible citizenry there equate torture and inhumane treatment for misdemeanants, petty criminals, non-paying dads, traffic ticket debtors and alimony debtors with competent law enforcement.

And, even worse, a large percentage of the inmates of any county jail is persons who have not been convicted of any crime at all, felony or misdemeanor. They have been arrested and held because they couldn't made bail. A significant number are never charged with a crime or are found not guilt or otherwise have their case dismissed. So, they walk out without a criminal record having suffered from the inhumane conduct of the Sheriff and his band of thugs. The serious felons and really bad guys go to state prison, so he's portraying a tough guy, wild west sheriff with inmates who've committed minor offenses or none at all.

It's not the baloney sandwiches or even the pink jail uniform. This cretin's pride in feeding the inmates on 40 cents a day and confining them to pup tents in the 120 degree heat during the day and 50 degree desert night is simply obscene.

The old rubric that crime has gone down in Maracopa County is an illogical deflection from the real question of humane treatment. His posturing is a disgrace and his seeming willingness to burn homes, shoot pets and children exemplifies his reign of criminality and terror masquerading as law enforcement.

55 posted on 04/05/2006 2:22:01 PM PDT by middie (ath.Tha)
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To: SampleMan

Gotta go coach soccer. I'll check in later.
_________________________________________________________

That in of itself makes you a good man in my book. I know the owrk that goes into it. What age? I've coached now for 10 years and this is my LAST year for my girls. Gatta love 17 year old girls worried more about how they look than how they play. ROFL I just have 2 rules...no bleeding and no crying.


56 posted on 04/05/2006 2:23:17 PM PDT by MadeInAmerica (- If ILLEGAL means Undocumented - Then Bank Robber means Wealth Redistribution)
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To: NordP

I don't like to see puppies hurt, either. But my anger is correctly directed. JBTs treat people like 'animals', and personification of animals can also devalue humans. Therefore, my anger goes in both directions (though not in equal portions).


57 posted on 04/05/2006 2:28:15 PM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: The Shootist
During the Clinton administration we called them "jack-booted thugs". Guess that ain't PC no more.

They're our jack-booted thugs now.

58 posted on 04/05/2006 2:38:00 PM PDT by Denver Ditdat (Melting solder since 1975)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Have you ever seen certain parts of Phoenix?

Gang-ridden and crime-ridden. The criminals are usually armed better than the police on duty.

There are certainly times and places an APC could come in handy. I have no problem with them having one.


59 posted on 04/05/2006 2:38:34 PM PDT by MplsSteve
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To: immigration lady
animals don't have a voice.

Animals have teeth, claws and a survival instinct. The only ones that truly need us are the ones that were bred to need us. God provides for the sparrow.

I don't have much respect for people who have no respect for an innocent life that appears to be less worthy than their own.

Nor do I. I have no desire for the animals I eat to unnecessarily suffer - but eat them, I will. I have no desire to see a puppy shot - but I'm more concerned about the pain it causes his owner to have him shot.

I also don't have much respect for those people who elevate animals above humans. I know I don't do enough charity on my own - but I cringe every time I see a celebrity pimp for a PETA cruelty cause, when I know that there are PEOPLE that need the help MORE.

Because it wanders around on 4 feet doesn't make it any less God's creature.

Maybe not. But the Bible spends an awful lot of time telling us how to treat our fellow humans. Most of its mention of animals is to discuss preparation for sacrifice, or finding lost sheep. Again, God provides for the sparrow - but he commands us to love each other; he really didn't say an awful lot about our love for the sparrow, other than to be good stewards of the planet. Therefore, I think that the injustices done to PEOPLE take priority over the injustices done to ANIMALS. YDMV (Your Dogma May Vary.)
60 posted on 04/05/2006 2:43:31 PM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: JTN

I was once pulled over by a Texas DPS cop who asked me that question you hear on the cop shows on television. You know the one, "Do you have any drugs, guns or dead bodies in the car?" I answered truthfully that I don't take drugs or kill people and then had to repeat myself as the officer didn't seem to comprehend that. By the time he had gotten backup, secured me in the back of his police car and torn my car apart I was more than an hour behind my schedule. I have since learned from my local sheriff, who is a friend of mine, that the correct answer is, "Not yet."


61 posted on 04/05/2006 2:55:48 PM PDT by KarinG1 (Some of us are trying to engage in philosophical discourse. Please don't allow us to interrupt you.)
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To: JTN
"In January a cop en route to a drug raid in Tampa, Florida, took a short cut across a neighboring lawn and shot the neighbor’s two pooches on his way."

Two pooches? Little wittle pooches?

First of all, he shot AT two, hitting one in the leg (treated and released) and missing the other. Second, the dogs were unregistered with no vaccinations. Third, they were mixed breed -- you can guess the mix. And fourth, both dogs attacked the officer and "bit Blanco several times on his elbows, arms and hips, and he was taken to Tampa General Hospital. Roberts said the dogs attacked Blanco so ferociously he shot at them."

Now, that's the whole truth on one story. Ask yourself how many of the other "poochie" stories referenced by this pro-drug, self-professed Libertarian writing in a Libertarian rag (Reason) are just as misleading?

He and Reason have no shame.

62 posted on 04/05/2006 3:17:11 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: SampleMan
My point is that I don't connect the dots on bad cops = legalize drugs, which is what seemed to be getting advocated. Completely separate issues. If drugs are legalized, the bad cop issue still isn't addressed.

Legalizing drugs wouldn't fully address the issue, but it would give cops - both good and bad - fewer reasons to descend on people's houses, and thus less of an opportunity to make mistakes. Millions of people keep dogs - as pets and/or for protection - and cops would still have to enter people's homes in response to domestic violence, child porn, fugitives, etc. Good cops would still make mistakes, and bad cops would still commit misdeeds, only far fewer of them.

63 posted on 04/05/2006 3:24:17 PM PDT by Freedom_no_exceptions (No actual, intended, or imminent victim = no crime. No exceptions.)
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To: absolootezer0
kill the dog is standard policy on any LEO raid. a dog is considered the first line of defense of any home. the dog is silenced before anything else happens in a raid. agents are not worried about being attacked by the dog, they are worried that the dog may alert the owner. i didn't see it mentioned yet, but randy weaver's dog was shot first at ruby ridge also.

Which is fine, I suppose, as far as it goes. But in the US we are presumed innocent until proved guilty. How do you replace a beloved family pet when it turns out that the police (or their CI) had the wrong address? Sure, broken windows and doors can be fixed, but they can't bring old Yeller back once they've killed him. The same is true for the innocent homeowner who sees his dog killed by some scruffy looking guy in body armor, but no uniform.

Whatever happened to serving a warrant by, well, knocking on the door and serving the warrant? Being prepared for resistance of course.

64 posted on 04/05/2006 3:45:53 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: middie
This cretin's pride in feeding the inmates on 40 cents a day and confining them to pup tents in the 120 degree heat during the day and 50 degree desert night is simply obscene.

I wouldn't have any problem with this if the prisoners were convicted and serving time in the county lockup. After all, our troops in Iraq and other places (Djibouti for example) have to put up with lots worse. But it they are awaiting trial, then I have a problem with treating like the scum those actually convicted are (Most of those awaiting trial are too, of course, but not all)

65 posted on 04/05/2006 3:50:04 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: SampleMan
". . .I find this whole business of shooting dogs however, to be a completely separate issue from enforcing the laws against illegal drugs."

Perhaps so. But it doesn't appear that this puppy-stomping/pet shooting behavior occurs at any other time than these WOD transactions.

BTW, when puppies and babies are killed indiscriminately it speaks poorly for law enforcement. Pleasure at killing small animals and ruthless power displays share much in common with serial killers and sociopaths.

66 posted on 04/05/2006 3:50:53 PM PDT by doberville
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
I have long maintained that the underlying motive for the WOD is the militarization of our local police forces.

Look at the evidence. Just about every locale has a police force that has a stockpile of body armor and AR-15s.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your point made this thread worth reading.

I have looked at the WOD from numerous angles and I have come to believe that militarization of local police departments is one of a just a few underlying reasons for it all.

67 posted on 04/05/2006 3:54:43 PM PDT by winston2 (In matters of necessity let there be unity, in matters of doubt liberty, and in all things charity:)
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To: doberville
Perhaps so.

OK. Then we agree. No need to continue the argument on the rest, I agree with you there to. I just take exception to the linkage, as I don't think it helps win the argument.

68 posted on 04/05/2006 3:58:05 PM PDT by SampleMan
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions
Legalizing drugs wouldn't fully address the issue, but it would give cops - both good and bad - fewer reasons to descend on people's houses, and thus less of an opportunity to make mistakes.

As would legalizing murder, rape, smuggling, extortion, money laundering, etc. Catch my point.

69 posted on 04/05/2006 4:00:02 PM PDT by SampleMan
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To: doberville
Perhaps so. But it doesn't appear that this puppy-stomping/pet shooting behavior occurs at any other time than these WOD transactions.

It does. The federal BATFE is the prototype and past master of the technique. They've also been known to throw a pregnant woman, not accused of any crime, up against a wall causes her to lose her baby, and that was just over paperwork violations. They've been known to tear a place apart when the owners were not present, leave it unlocked and wide open, with all the legal guns laying around on the floor, and just leaving a note saying "Nothing found, ATF".

70 posted on 04/05/2006 4:02:15 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: MadeInAmerica

I have been coaching 4, 5, and 6 year-olds for four years (seven seasons). I just keep cycling back to the younger child, all daughters.

I really love it. I have some good parents and great kids. My big rule is look at me when I'm talking.


71 posted on 04/05/2006 4:03:20 PM PDT by SampleMan
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To: MadeInAmerica

I completely concur with you on the searches.


72 posted on 04/05/2006 4:04:12 PM PDT by SampleMan
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To: JTN

Sadists just like to kill things.


73 posted on 04/05/2006 4:54:31 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: winston2
Thank you....

...for not calling me a raving paranoid nutbag...

...as has been done before when I've made that point.

74 posted on 04/05/2006 4:58:02 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Pain is nothing. Pain is weakness leaving the body.)
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To: Denver Ditdat
They're our jack-booted thugs now.

More the pity.

75 posted on 04/05/2006 5:14:29 PM PDT by The Shootist
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To: MadeInAmerica
As for illegal search, when pulled over in certain areas, all they need is probable cause and they can rip your vehicle apart if they choose. Large sums of cash to them is probable cause. They just ask about drugs, weapons, large sums of cash, etc
_________________

Actually they don't even need that.

Our family had a member pulled over and the first thing the officer said was "where's the money". No pretense of a traffic violation.

A large sum was in the vehicle for a heavy equipment purchase. That was quite the eye opening experience. They can tell somehow that you have large amounts of cash.

The officer was in a van and had some way of knowing about the money. Those that wish to can make cracks about tin foil but it happened and it sure wasn't a joke to me.

It came out ok for us - the money wasn't taken. But it could have been had the police not been reasonable. He even said as much. That's way too much power in police hands for me.
76 posted on 04/05/2006 5:32:28 PM PDT by abbi_normal_2
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To: El Gato

Thank you for the correction. It is even worse than I thought.


77 posted on 04/05/2006 6:01:44 PM PDT by doberville
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To: KarinG1; inneroutlaw
"Not yet."

That does cause 'em to pause and contemplate, in my experience.

78 posted on 04/05/2006 6:18:33 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: El Gato
But in the US we are presumed innocent until proved guilty.

That concept remains only marginally existent, and only in court.

We've ceded power to LEO's on the scene to be judge, jury, and frequently executioner for a lot of "offenses".

They don't recognize that principle, nor are they required to do so.

79 posted on 04/05/2006 6:24:53 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts; winston2
Proud to be in the same bag with you two.

"Count me in", said Crockett to Travis (and elkfersupper to Sam and winston).

80 posted on 04/05/2006 6:27:35 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: robertpaulsen
Ask yourself how many of the other "poochie" stories referenced by this pro-drug, self-professed Libertarian writing in a Libertarian rag (Reason) are just as misleading?

Even the magazine name is misleading.

81 posted on 04/05/2006 6:32:03 PM PDT by Mojave
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To: SampleMan
As would legalizing murder, rape, smuggling, extortion, money laundering, etc. Catch my point.

So what part of "cops would still have to enter people's homes in response to domestic violence, child porn, fugitives, etc." in my last post didn't you get??? Are you seriously comparing murder and rape to drug use? With a straight face??

82 posted on 04/05/2006 6:42:52 PM PDT by Freedom_no_exceptions (No actual, intended, or imminent victim = no crime. No exceptions.)
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To: El Gato
Comparing the conditions in the Maracopa County jail to the conditions under which troops in the field exist is totally non sequitur. Why not draw a comparison to the fate of earthquake or tusuami victims, or political prisoners under a Bosnian tyrant? Those make just a much sense. The convicted guys arestupid minor criminals having done those idiotic things that get one a 60 day sentence; not a felony where such deprivations and humiliations are closer to permissible. There is no justification for the jail's conduct, they violate every published jail standard from every agency.

The judicial system sentences a misdemeanant to a number of days incarceration, not starvation, not deprivation of basic human needs such as sleep, a dry place to be and not sujected to broiling heat and dangerous cold.

Any rationalization reeks of a generalized emotional reaction to the broader issue of crime within society. Societal crime is a problem that will not be resolved by this evil moron of a sheriff and his barbaric tactics. He does, however, bask is the spotlight of radio and TV interviews that focus on what he likes to describe as creative punishment techniques. He disreagrds the history that his barbarisms are a long way from creative. Dictators, tyrants and criminals against humanity have used them for centuries.

83 posted on 04/05/2006 6:42:58 PM PDT by middie (ath.Tha)
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To: middie
The convicted guys arestupid minor criminals having done those idiotic things that get one a 60 day sentence;

Too stupid to understand, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime"?

The comparison to troops was to point out that if the troops are routinely exposed to those conditions, and maintain their morale, then it can hardly be called "cruel and unusal punishment". That's what's in the Constitutions of both the US and of Arizona, and those are my standard.

Prisoners of course do not need the amount of calories or of water that active troops do, but they need enough water to replace what they lose. If the porta potties (or whatever arrangement they have) aren't being used, then they aren't getting enough water.

84 posted on 04/05/2006 7:52:22 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: MadeInAmerica
Gatta love 17 year old girls worried more about how they look than how they play. ROFL I just have 2 rules...no bleeding and no crying.

I know what you mean, neither of my girls was still an active athlete at that age, but my niece is. She's 16, almost 17, and plays soccer and volleyball . She definitely wants to look good while playing. But, if you think about it, looking good probably increases their confidence, and is no worse than some of the superstitious behavior of male athletes that I saw, and partook of myself as a student manager, way back when.

85 posted on 04/05/2006 7:58:13 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts; elkfersupper
Thank you....

...for not calling me a raving paranoid nutbag...

...as has been done before when I've made that point.

Proud to be in the same bag with you two.

"Count me in", said Crockett to Travis (and elkfersupper to Sam and winston).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd love to continue the sensible dialog that we touched on - but - I think this thread is not a good place to do so. I'm not at all impressed with the article. I disagree fundamentally with the idea that police (they're just a cross segment of the whole of humanity) are dangerous to dogs.

Please feel free to ping me in on any thread you wish plus I am on [JTN's ping list] which is usually taken care of by my good friend - freepatriot32. I hope to soon cross paths with both of you.

86 posted on 04/05/2006 8:21:43 PM PDT by winston2 (In matters of necessity let there be unity, in matters of doubt liberty, and in all things charity:)
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To: MPJackal

"In Columbine they cowered outside while innocent schoolkids were being shot."

Regardless of what I think about the tactics discussed here, your statement is totally untrue. I'm not sure if it is an outright lie or just your ignorance."

Right or wrong, they cowered outside long enough for a teacher to bleed to death in the arms of his students.


87 posted on 04/05/2006 8:28:59 PM PDT by swmobuffalo (the only good terrorist is a dead one)
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To: abbi_normal_2

That's unconstitutional. Unless you're one of a handful of supreme court justices, perhaps.


88 posted on 04/05/2006 9:06:50 PM PDT by dr_who_2
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

I have long maintained that the underlying motive for the WOD is the militarization of our local police forces.



And those local militarized forces are the standing army our founders feared.


89 posted on 04/05/2006 9:50:08 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: middie
This guy is getting a following though. Our new sheriff now feeds everyone in the jail one bologna sandwich and a few boiled carrots three times a day now. No pink underwear yet, but then again our prisoners go without underwear if they don't bring them themselves. And yes, a lot of them have not been convicted, but most actually have and are anxiously awaiting prison beds. They'd rather be in the pen than in our jail. Our prisons are as overcrowded as our jails. Hardly anyone in the jail is actually serving a jail sentence. Almost all of them are either awaiting trial or waiting months at a time for prison bed space to open up.

Prisons can't let people out fast enough to keep up with the number of new convicts even though our legislature is bending over backwards to come up with ways to let more and more out earlier than before. It's really getting ridiculous. They keep passing tougher laws to send more people to prison for longer sentences than ever and at the same time they have to keep coming up with ways for them to serve smaller and smaller percentages of their sentences because we can't afford to keep adding new prison beds at the rate we've been adding them the last couple of decades.

Shoot, overcrowding is so bad now that our parole board has all but given up on revoking parole. People practically have to kill someone to get their parole revoked nowadays. Burglarizing a home, stealing a car, forging a hundred checks, none of that is enough to get parole revoked for more than a piddly 60 day "technical violation" these days. To get a real revocation takes a death penalty offense or an offense in the next highest statutory classification below a death penalty crime now because our prisons are so overcrowded. The average sentence people actually serve is now actually decreasing rather than increasing because we've gone too nutty with locking people up and used up all the bed space on stupid minor offenses in recent decades. And those committing misdemeanors for which they would have rightfully gotten jail time for only a few years ago are now getting slapped on the wrist instead because since the prisons are so overcrowded our jails are now overflowing with people awaiting prison beds. Someday hopefully it will dawn on us that prisons and county jails are a limited resource that we should use wisely.

When we lock up a greater per capita percentage of our people than any other country in the world and have in fact more people in total behind bars than any country in the world, includinhg huge countries like China, Russia, and India, we're going to feel the financial impact of that. My God, our people make up about 5% of the world's population yet about 25% of the people behind bars are locked up right here in the land of the free. This doesn't come cheap. This "liberal" use of prison is not "conservative." It's not the old way from the "good old days."

What we are doing now is entirely unprecedented, a radical departure from our old ways. We now lock up several times more people than we ever did in our entire history prior to 1979 or so. This is a fad, an unhealthy one at that. Sheriff Joe Arpaio is nothing but a publicity hound riding the wave. He has populist support for his tent city jail, but in real life we can't keep this crap going. We can't keep locking people up at the ever increasing rate we've been locking them up. This is costing us a fortune and at least from what I'm seeing a probably most of the people we are locking up are coming out worse than they were to begin with. Prison especially rarely turns a bad person into a good person. In real life what is more likely to happen is that a screwed up person goes to prison and comes out even more screwed up than he ever was before. He's likely to be raped and violated in a variety of ways. He's likely get jailhouse tattoos from head to toe and come out even less able to get a decent job than he was before. If he's black he'll join the Muslim Brotherhood or some other gang for protection. If he's white he'll join some meth dealing white supremacist group or another gang for protection. Mexicans and others do the same. Almost all of them seem to come out with even worse attitudes. The rarest of all is the guy who comes out changed for the better, especially when it comes to those going to state prisons rather than those who spend a little time in a county jail. I'm telling you, from years working in the criminal justice system what I am seeing is that the only thing prison really does well is keep the really dangerous guys away from the rest of us as long as they are kept there. Sentencing more and more to those places and having to let them all out earlier and earlier to make room for new convicts is counterproductive.

Right now the the most apparent problem with what we are doing is the hefty financial price. Mark my words though, as time goes one we'll see that we pay much higher societal costs on top of these financial costs for sending so many of our own to institutions of higher criminal learning where they learn new criminal skills, make new criminal contacts, suffer deviant behavior inducing abuse, and further develop that criminal attitude of taking what they can get no matter who they hurt and blaming others for the bad situations they find themselves in rather than taking responsibility for their actions and making the appropriate changes in the way they conduct lives. I see this over and over again. Prison tends to make people worse people than they were before they went in.

It's time for us to start putting some science into this and really start thinking about what we are doing. There are people who should be locked up for the good of us all, the longer the better. In order to up as long as we possibly can those who really should be locked up for the good of us all, we are going to have to start prioritizing a lot better than we do today. I hope to see us do just that, and therefore am glad to see us struggling in my county and my state with prison/jail overcrowding. That makes people have to start thinking realistically. So far though people around here still only seem to be thinking about the county jail, which we all pay for with property and sales taxes. If the city and the county had to pay for all or at least a part of the costs of putting so many in our state prisons, we'd probably see a lot more prudent decisions on the part of local jurors and judges with respect to prison sentences meted out. If I were king I'd make county governments share in state prison costs for those sentenced to prison from the respective counties. If that happened we'd see a lot of changes in the way we decide who should go to prison and for how long. As it is our county can and does sentence people to prison at a rate far higher than either the state's per capita average or the national per capita average. If locals could see that that actually costs them money, that would change in a heartbeat.
90 posted on 04/05/2006 10:42:34 PM PDT by TKDietz
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To: citizenK

I agree completely.


91 posted on 04/06/2006 3:06:58 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: George_Bailey

That is how I remember it also.


92 posted on 04/06/2006 3:17:01 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: robertpaulsen

I guess I do not understand your point. If the dogs had their shots up to date and their tags, the police man shooting at them would somehow be more acceptable? Are you saying that if a cop decides to cut across my yard he has the right to kill my dogs just for being there? Even if they are on my property and not bothering anybody at the time? Will they knock on my door and give me time to let them in before hand? I expect my dogs to challenge uninvited trespassers, that is one reason they are there in the first place. I do not believe that a policeman has the right to shoot my dogs on my property just to facilitate his desire to cut across my yard. I am sorry but the "whole story" in this case still sucks, in my oopinion.


93 posted on 04/06/2006 3:56:38 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions
are you seriously comparing murder and rape to drug use?

Yes. Most of the crime, thuggery, and murder is directly tied to the drug trade, as is forced prostitution (rape). I'm not at all impressed with "casual users" who simply finance the criminal organizations.

Again, my point is that if you want to legalize drug use, argue for it on its own merits. I'm not an advocate, so I'd be happy to accomodate you.

Abuse in search and seizure is a separate issue. It shouldn't be used as a red herring for legalizing drugs.

94 posted on 04/06/2006 4:30:29 AM PDT by SampleMan
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To: doberville; SampleMan
But it doesn't appear that this puppy-stomping/pet shooting behavior occurs at any other time than these WOD transactions.

The article cites the dogs shot at Waco...while the BATF was involved, I don't think that was directly a WOD event.
95 posted on 04/06/2006 4:59:09 AM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: TKDietz
"When we lock up a greater per capita percentage of our people than any other country in the world ..."

Cry me a river. We happen to have more freedom than the other countries you mentioned, so you can expect more scumbags to take advantage of it. You want less crime, then let's see you advocate for more machine gun carrying cops on every street corner -- more intrusions, more searches, less freedom. Yeah, just what I thought, you gutless wonder.

Second, countries like the UK have this concept called a "caution", wheby first offenders don't even see a court, much less serve time. This applies to assault, burglary, robbery, fraud, criminal damage, AND sexual offenses. Download child porn, a caution.

Now, you want to free up space, again, let's see you advocate for a similar sysytem here in the US. Let's see you advocate for letting robbers, sexual offenders, and those who physically assault others off with a slap on the wrist verbal no-no, never even seeing a courtroom. Boy, your job would be easier, now wouldn't it?

And stop your God-awful whining.

96 posted on 04/06/2006 5:47:44 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: The Shootist
Please add me to the libertarian list.

You're on.

97 posted on 04/06/2006 6:07:48 AM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: SampleMan
Most of the crime, thuggery, and murder is directly tied to the drug trade

Obviously, this is because drugs are illegal.

98 posted on 04/06/2006 6:11:26 AM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: jospehm20
"I guess I do not understand your point."

I'm saying that the portrayal of these dogs as "pooches" was disingenuous, at best. The author mislead the reader by implying these little defenseless, harmless "pooches" minding their own business were shot and killed by this jackbooted thug who had no right at all to be in THEIR domain to begin with, and my intent was to portray the facts.

RTFA. These junkyard dogs were strays, mixed breed, unlicensed and untagged. They attacked the officer who was performing his duty. He shot AT them in self-defense, and injured one.

Now, if you have dogs that do this -- you think it's OK for your unleashed dogs to attack and maul and send to the hospital anyone who happens to place a foot on your property -- then be prepared for the consequences, even if those consequences are "unfair".

Now, back to my point. If the author was misleading us with this incident, how many of his other tear-jerking "stories" are untrue?

99 posted on 04/06/2006 6:13:34 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
this jackbooted thug who had no right at all to be in THEIR domain to begin with

He didn't.

100 posted on 04/06/2006 6:25:54 AM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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