Dinosaur Shocker (YEC say dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly survive millions of years)

Smithsonian Magazine ^ | May 1, 2006 | Helen Fields

[2nsdammit]

What makes you think I don't believe in God?

That BS makes me livid. A belief in God does not necessitate the suspension of thinking which YEC'ers exhibit. Faith and science are quite capable of co-existing inside a normal, thinking mind.

[Liberal Classic]

I already said as much.

[Ichneumon]

The snot count on that one was actually a little low. The sardonic irony, however, was spiked...

So you've given up on bothering to make substantive replies, I see... Your little riff could be equally applied to anything you chose to bicker with, but failed to have anything of real value to say about.

By the way, I'm sorry I couldn't get back with your large response to me on the Ann Coulter thread. I intended to respond, but such large responses take a little time, and by the time I got to it, the mod had been urinated off by the thread, and locked it. Shame. A couple of other comments I wasn't able to respond to as well.

Yeah, that froze a lot of people in mid-conversation. I was wanting to respond to some posts there myself.

[Tokra]

Now if this same personage, who does things in an instant; how LONG would it take Him to CREATE all that we find around us???

How long did it take him to "create" a St. Bernard and a French Poodle out of the same original dog ancestor?
How long did it take him to create bi-color corn out of the original corn plant?

If mankind can breed different varieties of animals and plants - why do you not think Nature can do the same thing?

And why would you not believe all of this has been conceived and planned by God?

Here's a couple more Biblical quotes for you:

And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

Explain to me how one river can be split 4-ways and end up in both Assyria and in Ethiopia when they are on 2 different continents??

3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

"one of us"?? Just who was God speaking to? What does he mean by "one of US"?

4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Where did Cain's wife come from? The Bible says that Eve bore Cain and then Abel - it doesn't say anything about her bearing anyone else. So just where did Cain's wife come from? Was she Cain's sister? If so, why does the Bible not mention her?

If you are going to say "just because Genesis doesn't say so - Eve had other children" then I say to you "just because Genesis doesn't say that God created evolution - he did."

If you want to start "interpreting" the Bible and say "well, what it really means is....", then why would YOUR interpretation be any more valid than mine or anyone elses?

[mlc9852]

What kind of question is that? What is your definition of "valid"? Do you mean do I believe every religion in the world? I am not acquainted with a lot of "religions" so I can't give you an answer. Do you accept all religions as valid?

[2nsdammit]

Aha!!! "I actually don't know what ID says." Then why do you defend it?

[mlc9852]

I'm not a YEC so that doesn't mean anything to me. I guess I should have asked if you believed the Bible was the authoritative word of God.

[js1138]

Do you attend any church? Have you professed any faith?

[mlc9852]

I don't defend ID - I defend that God is the creator. Simple as that.

[ahayes]

The look on his face is insufficiently horrified!

[Ichneumon]

Perhaps not quite what you're looking for, but this was another find that caused a "revolution" of rethinking about evolution.

No it didn't.

That seems to happen an awful lot.

No, it doesn't. Not in the way you're trying to imply.

Dinosaur Found in Mammal's Belly

Interesting, but not the kind of "challenge" to evolution you're trying to spin it as. You and the rest of the evolutin-haters have *really* got to learn the difference between "rethinking" the history of specific lineages, and "rethinking" evolution itself.

It's like the difference between having to reconsider the path that a bullet took through a badly decomposed body being studied in a murder investigation, versus having to "rethink" the laws of physics.

This was Hawkaw's point, but it zoomed right over your head.

You anti-evolutionists keep taking examples similar to the former and trying to wave them around as if they were the latter. In most cases, it's due to gross ignorance of the field you're attempting to "critique" (most anti-evolutionists don't know squat about biology, or how science is done), but in many cases it's just outright dishonesty and willful propaganda.

Which is it in your case?

You may want to be careful about admitting the things that will cause reconsideration of evolution. You just might find them.

And you may want to be careful about understanding a topic before you make any more goofy misstatements about it.

[mlc9852]

Yes and yes.

[2nsdammit]

Deluded? Perhaps. Or perhaps just speaking metaphorically.

[Virginia-American]

Me: And there never will be. Because *anything* is compatable with a "created biology". That's one of the reasons it's not science - there's no way to test it.

You: And the *exact* *same* *thing* goes for evolution, in case you are inadvertantly being selective in your criticism.

Pay attention to this thread. There are no fossils of people and dinosaurs together. According to evolutionary theory, there never will be any. According to creationism or ID, there might or might not be.

[Diamond]

ID'ers/YECs - show me just ONE example of a fossil of a modern human in the same sedimentary rock layer as a dinosaur, OR IN AN EARLIER LAYER, and I will admit you are right.

[background on area of Robledos Mountains]Recently opened during 1995. NEW EXHIBIT (Albuquerque, New Mexico) Ancient Evidence, Life Before Dinosaurs, featuring early Permian trackways from the Robledos Mountains, New Mexico, at the New Mexico Museum of Natural History & Science. Contact Tom Williamson, Curator of Paleontology, New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science, 1801 Mountain Road NW, Albuquerque, NM 87104-1375 [tel +1-505-841-8837, fax +1-505-841-8866, email tom@darwin.nmmnh-abq.mus.nm.us.
link

----------------------------------------------------

When Jerry McDonald, a back-to-school geology student, first arrived at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces and gazed across the Mesilla Valley at the Robledo Mountains, he had no idea how many days of scorching heat he would soon be spending in their rocky arroyos

. The Robledos have always been a fossil hunter's paradise, but it wasn't long before MacDonald became convinced that in the excitement of finding Permian fossils, the greatest secret of the Robledos had been overlooked.

Many collectors had found an occasional fossil footprint - a track. But what if an entire trackway - a series of footprints - could be uncovered? The scintific knowledge that can be gleaned from a trackway discovered in place is infinitely more valuable than a random footprint on a rock which may have been washed down an arroyo and deposited millions of years out of geologic context.

MacDonald tenaciously found and uncovered not just one, but hundreds of trackways.
Then came the quest for vindication by the nation's leading museums, the web of political intrigue which wrapped around government agencies and local naysayers, and the inevitable cries of "fraud".

In the end, the MacDonald trackway discovery was recognized by the Smithsonian and Carnegie museums as the most significant Permian discovery in North America, yielding voluminous data about the creatures that lived along the then tropical shores of the great Southwest ocean 50 million years before dinosaurs roamed the land.

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[GourmetDan]

GD wrote: The fact that putrescin is still present is evidence that these fossils *aren't* 'millions of years old', not evidence that there is some unknown condition that would preserve putrescin for 'millions of years'.

Actually it can be tested, is being tested, and will continue to be tested. Its as simple as taking a air sample, examining the matter that the oder is from and determining whether the odor is from the material of a cadaver or something other. Then you might question and explain the odor.

I see that you are very confused. It's not as simple as testing for the presence of putrescin. It is as impossible as burying a dead animal, waiting 68 million years to dig it up and *then* test for putrescin.

With reasoning skills like that, I can see why you think evolution is 'true'.

Sheesh.

[js1138]

But being openminded, above all else, you accept the fact that other religions, whether you have studied them or not, have equal claims for truth.

[jec41]

Why does an apple fall to the ground? Hmmm... must be an intelligent being pushing (or pulling... the debate continues) us down.

Nope, God dropped it, Hmmmm, no he can't do that, god doesn't have accidents. However I don't care, nothing else would explain it.