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Dinosaur Shocker (YEC say dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly survive millions of years)
Smithsonian Magazine ^ | May 1, 2006 | Helen Fields

Posted on 05/01/2006 8:29:14 AM PDT by SirLinksalot

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To: AndrewC

People guess about others motivations all the time, when it suits them...I was simply asking you if you had any idea...


941 posted on 05/02/2006 7:54:46 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: Liberal Classic

Darwin Central: The Conspiracy that cares! BWAHAHAhahahahaha!!!

942 posted on 05/02/2006 7:56:36 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: Liberal Classic

Agreed...someone is doing these things, IF in reality, they are being done...


943 posted on 05/02/2006 7:57:01 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: mlc9852

Yeah, but Dr. Cletus P. Yokel claims that Dinosaurs and man coexisted less than a million years ago.


944 posted on 05/02/2006 7:57:57 PM PDT by Clemenza (If you don't trust the government to buy your groceries, why trust it to educate your children?)
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To: andysandmikesmom
I was simply asking you if you had any idea...

I suppose for some of the same reasons this guy had.

And if you don't like that answer, sorry, but I told you I am not a mind reader.

945 posted on 05/02/2006 7:58:15 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: AndrewC
"Oh horrors!"

Again, you can contend anything you want. Tom Cruise contends that aliens have infested his body and need to be removed through Scientological rituals. You contend that a conspiracy exists that is suppressing evidence against evolution, though what this evidence is is a mystery.

Refusing to back it up though makes you look less than honest.

Unfalsifiable claims cannot have evidence that goes against them.
946 posted on 05/02/2006 8:00:51 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: andysandmikesmom
IF in reality, they are being done...

Dr Richard Sternberg

Post-publication retaliation and discrimination at the Smithsonian and elsewhere

To summarize what occurred after the Meyer paper was published:

bullet

Efforts to remove me from the Museum. After Smithsonian officials determined that there was no wrong-doing in the publication process for the Meyer paper and that they therefore had no grounds to remove me from my position directly, they tried to create an intolerable working environment so that I would be forced to resign. As the OSC investigation concluded, “[i]t is... clear that a hostile work environment was created with the ultimate goal of forcing you out of the SI.” In addition, it was made clear to me that my current position at the Smithsonian will not be renewed despite my excellent record of research and publication.

bullet

Efforts to get NIH to fire me. Pressure was put on the NIH to fire me.

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Perceived political and religous beliefs investigated. Smithsonian officials attempted to investigate my personal religious and political beliefs in gross violation of my privacy and my First Amendment rights.

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Smeared with false allegations. My professional reputation, private life, and ethics were repeatedly impugned and publicly smeared with false allegations by government employees working in tandem with a non-governmental political advocacy group, the National Center for Science Education (NCSE).

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Pressured to reveal peer reviewers and to engage in improper peer review. I was repeatedly pressured to reveal the names of the peer-reviewers of the Meyer article, contrary to professional ethics. I was also told repeatedly that I should have found peer reviewers who would reject the article out-of-hand, in direct violation of professional ethics which require editors to find peer reviewers who are not prejudiced or hostile to a particular author or his/her ideas.

bullet

Creation of hostile work environment.

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Supervisor replaced. I was transferred from the supervision of a friendly sponsor (supervisor) at the Museum to a hostile one.

bullet

Office space. I was twice forced to move specimens from my office space on short notice for no good reason, my name plate was removed from my office door, and eventually I was deprived of all official office space and forced to use a shared work area as my work location in the Museum.

bullet

Unprecedented work requirements. I was subjected to an array of new reporting requirements not imposed on other Research Associates.

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Access to specimens limited. My access to the specimens needed for my research at the Museum was restricted. (My access to the Museum was also restricted. I was forced to give up my master key.)

In sum, it is clear that I was targeted for retaliation and harassment explicitly because I failed in an unstated requirement in my role as editor of a scientific journal: I was supposed to be a gatekeeper turning away unpopular, controversial, or conceptually challenging explanations of puzzling natural phenomena. Instead, I allowed a scientific article to be published critical of neo-Darwinism, and that was considered an unpardonable heresy.

Summary of key points regarding publication of the Meyer paper

Returning to the original dispute (and the reason for which I first created this web site): Many distortions and inaccuracies have circulated in the press and on the web regarding the publication of the Meyer paper. The key facts are:

bullet

I hold two PhDs in the area of evolutionary biology, one in molecular (DNA) evolution and the other in systems theory and theoretical biology. I have published more than 30 articles in peer-reviewed scientific books and publications. My current areas of research and writing are primarily in the areas of evolutionary theory and systematics.

bullet

In the case of the Meyer paper I followed all the standard procedures for publication in the Proceedings. As managing editor it was my prerogative to choose the editor who would work directly on the paper, and as I was best qualified among the editors I chose myself, something I had done before in other appropriate cases. In order to avoid making a unilateral decision on a potentially controversial paper, however, I discussed the paper on at least three occasions with another member of the Council of the Biological Society of Washington (BSW), a scientist at the National Museum of Natural History. Each time, this colleague encouraged me to publish the paper despite possible controversy.

bullet

The Meyer paper underwent a standard peer review process by three qualified scientists, all of whom are evolutionary and molecular biologists teaching at well-known institutions. The reviewers provided substantial criticism and feedback to Dr. Meyer, who then made significant changes to the paper in response. Subsequently, after the controversy arose, Dr. Roy McDiarmid, President of the Council of the BSW, reviewed the peer-review file and concluded that all was in order. As Dr. McDiarmid informed me in an email message on August 25th, 2004, "Finally, I got the [peer] reviews and agree that they are in support of your decision [to publish the article]."

bullet

Following my resignation in October 2003, a new managing editor for the Proceedings was selected in May of 2004, and the transition from my editorship to the new editor has taken place over the past few months. By the time that the controversy emerged I was finishing up my last editorial responsibilities. Thus, my stepping down had nothing to do with the publication of the Meyer paper.

A full discussion of the publication issues is available here.


947 posted on 05/02/2006 8:02:16 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Again, you can contend anything you want.

Well, thanks for the permission.

Refusing to back it up though makes you look less than honest.

No, it makes it a contention.

948 posted on 05/02/2006 8:04:24 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: AndrewC
Poor Richard's Almanack contains a handy quotation for any occasion.

The closed mouth catches no flies.

949 posted on 05/02/2006 8:05:19 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: AndrewC
"No, it makes it a contention."

A contention you refuse to back up. Which makes you look less than honest.

Unfalsifiable claims cannot logically have evidence that goes against them. A=A.
950 posted on 05/02/2006 8:06:19 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: Liberal Classic
The closed mouth catches no flies.

"Sounds" like you had a bad experience.

951 posted on 05/02/2006 8:06:36 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: AndrewC
Sternberg is no martyr.

http://danielmorgan.blogspot.com/2005/12/sternberg-saga-continues.html
952 posted on 05/02/2006 8:07:48 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: jec41

placemark


953 posted on 05/02/2006 8:08:20 PM PDT by stands2reason ("Patriotism is the highest form of dissent." - Mark Steyn)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
A contention you refuse to back up. Which makes you look less than honest.

See you can make contentions too. I contend that there is no life on Pluto. Care to contend that I am being less than honest?

954 posted on 05/02/2006 8:08:55 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: Liberal Classic
No conspiracy of this magnitude could ever succeed...

It would if people believed that their behavior was moral and/or ethical. If we move past a simplistic, suspense novel definition of conspiracy, one can easily see numerous examples throughout history. Oddly enough, denial is a key element that pervades this behavior.

955 posted on 05/02/2006 8:09:21 PM PDT by csense
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To: AndrewC

Its not a matter of what answer I like or dont like...that is irrelevant...what I like or dont like has no bearing on why anyone would suppress evidence that falsifies evolution, or produces fake evidence to support evolution...no you are not a mind reader, neither is anyone else...but FR, is full of folks guessing at other folks motivations...I had no way of knowing whether or not you might be one of these people...you have now told me that you do not guess at others motivations...thats informative for me to know...

Maybe the better question would be, what is this evidence that falsifies evolution or what is the fake evidence that supports evolution?


956 posted on 05/02/2006 8:10:32 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Sternberg is no martyr.

Believe what you want.

957 posted on 05/02/2006 8:10:59 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: Coyoteman

Take care that you karma doesn't run over his dogma.


958 posted on 05/02/2006 8:13:25 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: AndrewC
"See you can make contentions too."

Which I have backed up. You have refused to do so with yours.
You are being less than honest.

A=A. Unfalsifiable claims cannot have evidence that goes against them.
959 posted on 05/02/2006 8:14:25 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: AndrewC
"Believe what you want."

That's what you do; I accept what the facts lead me to accept. Sternberg was no martyr.
960 posted on 05/02/2006 8:15:29 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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