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Mary Cheney's pregnancy affects us all
Townhall ^ | 12/07/2006 | Janice Shaw Crouse

Posted on 12/07/2006 7:16:54 AM PST by Responsibility2nd

Mary Cheney’s pregnancy poses problems not just for her child, but also for all Americans. Her action repudiates traditional values and sets an appalling example for young people at a time when father absence is the most pressing social problem facing the nation. With 37 percent of American children born to fatherless families, Mary Cheney is contributing to a trend that is detrimental to all Americans who will live with the ramifications of millions of children whose anger and frustration at not knowing their father will be felt in the public schools and communities of our nation.

Mary Cheney is among that burgeoning group of adult women over age 20 that are driving the trend of women who don’t want a man in the picture, but want to have a baby. These older women are pushing out-of-wedlock birth statistics higher and higher. At a time when teen births and teen abortions are declining dramatically, older women are having more un-wed births and more abortions, including repeat abortions (indicating that they are using abortion as birth control).

Well-educated, professional Mary Cheney is flying in the face of the accumulated wisdom of the top experts who agree that the very best family structure for a child’s well-being is a married mom and dad family. Her child will have all the material advantages it will need, but it will still encounter the emotional devastation common to children without fathers.

One Georgia high school principal reported, “We have too many young men and women from single-mother families that don’t have the role models at home to teach them how to deal with adversity and handle responsibility. They’ve seen their mom work 60 hours a week just to put food on the table; they end up fending for themselves.”

When fatherless children get to be teens, the girls tend to start looking for love in all the wrong places and the boys tend to find as their role model the bad-boy celebrities of MTV, NFL and NBA.

As they grow older, fatherless children tend to have trouble dealing with male authority figures. Too often children in single-mother households end up angry at their absent fathers and resentful of the mother who has had to be a father figure, too. Typically, the boys who have a love-hate relationship with their mother end up hating all women. Numerous of them look for vulnerable women where they can act out their anger and be in control.

Mary Cheney’s action sets an example that is detrimental for mothers with less financial resources who will start down an irrevocable path into poverty that tends to be generational –– children in households without a father tend to themselves have unwed births later in life. Experts from both the left and the right cite a disastrous litany of negative outcomes that are predictable when a child grows up in a fatherless family. Such children tend to get involved in drugs, alcohol abuse, and delinquency; they tend to drop out of school and have teen pregnancies. An assistant principal in a Junior High School said that many of the behavioral problems that teachers face in the classroom stem from households without a father’s influence.

Mary’s pregnancy is an “in-your-face” action countering the Bush Administration’s pro-family, pro-marriage and pro-life policies. She continues to repudiate the work to which her father has devoted his life. Mary has repeatedly said that “studies” show that children only need a loving home. Her statement is incomplete because the experts agree that for the well-being of children, they desperately need a married father and a mother.

All those people who talk about doing what is best “for our children” need to get back to the basics: children need a married mom and dad. Children can do without a lot of the trimmings of childhood, but nothing can replace a home where the mother and dad love each other enough to commit for a lifetime and are absolutely crazy about their kids –– enough to be willing to sacrifice their own needs to see that their children get the very best.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: busybodies; dykecheney; highclassbastards; homosexualagenda; makeuptherules; marycheney; moralabsolutes; turkeybaster; whosyourdaddy
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To: He Rides A White Horse

Always runnin' at someones bleedin' 'eel.


401 posted on 12/07/2006 1:18:49 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Ol' Sparky

I was quoting the other poster - who seemed to say that money will make up for the lack of a father and the presence of two "mothers".

Not my POV at all!


402 posted on 12/07/2006 1:20:06 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: gidget7

They never bring one cogent argument to the debate. Not one, ever.

But they're dogged in their blind, fervent support of deviancy and social decay! If only their conviction were used for good.


403 posted on 12/07/2006 1:22:40 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Eva
"It is none of your business what people do in their own homes. They aren't teaching about Mary Cheney having a baby in the public schools."


There are a lot of things that are "everyones business". When those things harm society at large. And YES they are teaching JUST that in schools, where have you been? That, IMO is the biggest problem with it. For many homosexuals, that is the entire reason for having or adopting kids. I am not saying Ms Cheney has such an agenda, (though I am not a big fan of the book she published either) but the agenda will be the result none the less.
404 posted on 12/07/2006 1:30:29 PM PST by gidget7 (Political Correctness is Marxism with a nose job)
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To: zbigreddogz; Responsibility2nd
Yes, you have already made your meaningless jester in an attempt to substitute substance with a jpeg, essentially admitting to your own inability to form a coherent arguement.

Well put.

405 posted on 12/07/2006 1:33:05 PM PST by highball (Proud to announce the birth of little Highball, Junior - Feb. 7, 2006!)
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To: linda_22003
"What does it include?"


As is the case in other socially liberal stances, it's a little late for that now, isn't it?? The point is the selfish actions should not have been taken to begin with, NOT what do we suggest be done about it now. Just like the liberals always say, "we need abortion as a choice" Conservatives stand on principals, those being the time for any action is before you take the action that caused the problem, not after the fact. After the fact you must live with your choices, and unfortunately in cases like this, so does society. This action, and others like it, furthers the agenda of the homosexual activists to redefine family, and to teach the normalization of homosexuality in schools, which will be more and more prevalent as more of these poor children are created.
406 posted on 12/07/2006 1:49:01 PM PST by gidget7 (Political Correctness is Marxism with a nose job)
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To: gidget7

Some people were posting as though something should be done about Ms. Cheney, so I wondered what it was.

"Conservatives stand on principals"

Well, I know some don't approve of public schools, but standing on their chief administrators is rude; you'll hurt them, or rumple their suits. ;)


407 posted on 12/07/2006 1:51:50 PM PST by linda_22003
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To: little jeremiah

Like the old saying about those who refuse to take a stand...........unlike those of us who have principals we do not allow others to force us to compromise.........If you fail to stand for something, you stand for nothing.


408 posted on 12/07/2006 1:51:53 PM PST by gidget7 (Political Correctness is Marxism with a nose job)
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To: Antoninus
It's a stretch to say you know what specific issues they will have. It's a stretch to say that all lesbians put their careers ahead of their children.

Not at all. But then again, you don't seem too terribly well informed on the issue

I would say the same about you. Can you document this idea of yours that all lesbians put their careers ahead of their children?

Here's a statement for you: "The best venue for raising children is the stable, loving, male-female, two-parent traditional family. Thus, every effort should be made to encourage and strengthen the traditional family, and discourage alternate forms which can cause harm to children."

Mostly agree. It depends on what efforts and methods you would you would use to encourage and discourage, though... For instance, I don't think our government should mandate that couples be married before they have a child. Is it a good idea for children to be born to married couples? Yes. Should our government put this into law? No. So I guess I don't believe every effort should be made, but I'm certainly in favor of reasonable encouragement.
409 posted on 12/07/2006 1:53:15 PM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: Wormwood

LOL - great graphic! : )


410 posted on 12/07/2006 1:54:15 PM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: MinuteGal

"What can anyone do about adult, willful children who march to their own (often misguided) drummers?" They can say, "We love our daughter, but we don't agree with her actions. And we will certainly love our grandchild." They don't have to carry on the pretense that these are "normal" or happy circumstances.


411 posted on 12/07/2006 1:56:17 PM PST by lady lawyer
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To: dfwgator; drjimmy

It appears we have some common ground.


412 posted on 12/07/2006 2:09:59 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (unite)
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To: drjimmy

it really is a great album, isn't it? Stands up to the test of time.


413 posted on 12/07/2006 2:12:34 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (unite)
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To: dfwgator
Always runnin' at someones bleedin' 'eel.

I bought that album (yes, album) when I was twelve with money I earned as a paperboy.

414 posted on 12/07/2006 2:14:15 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (unite)
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To: dfwgator

CD's are great, but one gets a little nostalgic for all of the artwork that used to accompany records. More canvas. What I remember was some dude sitting on a motorbike of sorts with four mirrors. Hence the name Quadrophenia, I suppose.


415 posted on 12/07/2006 2:16:52 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (unite)
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To: He Rides A White Horse

I only heard of Quadrophenia when the movie came out, then I went back and heard the original and it blew me away.


416 posted on 12/07/2006 2:17:04 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: He Rides A White Horse

That's why I miss albums, I remembered the ELO Spaceship that came with "Out of the Blue." Can't do that with CDs.


417 posted on 12/07/2006 2:18:19 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

It was truly one of those musical masterpieces; told a tale of 'mods' and 'rockers', right?


418 posted on 12/07/2006 2:18:39 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (unite)
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To: Stone Mountain; Wormwood
LOL - great graphic! : )

I agree. I have every intention of stealing it.
419 posted on 12/07/2006 2:20:43 PM PST by Antoninus (Rudy as nominee = President Hillary. Why else do you think the media love him?)
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To: dfwgator
I'm forty years old dfwgator, so that may give you a pretty good idea as to the type of music I grew up with.

ELO.....very talented guy [Jeff Lynne (sp?)]

420 posted on 12/07/2006 2:20:46 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (unite)
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To: He Rides A White Horse
I bought that album (yes, album) when I was twelve with money I earned as a paperboy.

Me too. It was that album that helped me realize that Peter Townsend (and indeed most rock gods) are deeply troubled people.
421 posted on 12/07/2006 2:22:43 PM PST by Antoninus (Rudy as nominee = President Hillary. Why else do you think the media love him?)
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To: Antoninus

"Resentment of parents for whatever reason (absentee-ism prevalent among them) seems to be a common thread. That and abuse at the hands of the trusted men in their lives..."

Would that be why she's so close to her father? She and Dick really seem to have a strong relationship. I never saw it as something sinister.


422 posted on 12/07/2006 2:23:05 PM PST by Kahonek
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To: He Rides A White Horse

I'm right around that age myself. Ahhh nostalgia.


423 posted on 12/07/2006 2:23:21 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Pietro

That's just it. What they are doing is so selfish. I can only imagine the pain and ridicule that child will go through being raised in that lifestyle. As a society, we should condemn these acts. We don't condemn the children, of course, but when the child is old enough they should get exposure to better morals than they're being raised with. Unfortunately, society being what it is and only getting worse, I don't see how this will happen.


424 posted on 12/07/2006 2:23:53 PM PST by TraditionalistMommy
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To: Antoninus
Me too. It was that album that helped me realize that Peter Townsend (and indeed most rock gods) are deeply troubled people.

Laughing......yeah, probably Antoninus.

425 posted on 12/07/2006 2:25:21 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (unite)
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To: SoothingDave

Funny isn't it, that so many fail to see the fact that all laws are based on what is or is not considered moral.


426 posted on 12/07/2006 2:26:42 PM PST by gidget7 (Political Correctness is Marxism with a nose job)
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To: dfwgator
I'm right around that age myself. Ahhh nostalgia.

You know you are getting older when you scoop your music out of the $3.99 bin at the record store (grin)

427 posted on 12/07/2006 2:26:55 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (unite)
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To: Antoninus
Me too. It was that album that helped me realize that Peter Townsend (and indeed most rock gods) are deeply troubled people.

I think Tommy (Cousin Kevin and Uncle Ernie) pretty much was your proof right there.

428 posted on 12/07/2006 2:28:04 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
I'm right around that age myself. Ahhh nostalgia.

Rough boys, under the sheets, want to bite and kiss you nailed it down as far as Townsend was concerned.

429 posted on 12/07/2006 2:31:43 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (unite)
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To: Always Right
You confuse conservatism with libertarianism.

And even libertarianism would allow people the right to express disapproval.

430 posted on 12/07/2006 2:35:47 PM PST by murdoog
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To: gidget7
Funny isn't it, that so many fail to see the fact that all laws are based on what is or is not considered moral.

Everybody has a set of moral codes, even those that think they don't.

431 posted on 12/07/2006 2:46:42 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (unite)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Mary Cheney's pregnancy affects us all

This does not affect me at all. She seems to have a very stable relationship, wants a child and everyone in the family is ok with her decision from what I have heard. More important things to fret about these days.

Merry Christmas everyone :)

432 posted on 12/07/2006 2:48:22 PM PST by Irish Eyes
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To: He Rides A White Horse; All

A related thread, and important read

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1750093/posts


433 posted on 12/07/2006 2:56:26 PM PST by gidget7 (Political Correctness is Marxism with a nose job)
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To: Irish Eyes
Wrong answer. It does affect you. You may not know why I'm sending you this book, but I am.


434 posted on 12/07/2006 3:04:37 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (Abortion is to family planning what bankruptcy is to financial planning)
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To: gidget7
Good Article.....

So what should we do? In my view there are three options:

1) LIBERAL OPTION: embrace the lie, throw away common sense and centuries of Judeo-Christian tradition, and support homosexuality and gender confusion as civil rights. Watch and cheer as Americans’ First Amendment rights to live out their faith and disagree with homosexuality get superseded by “gays” demanding “sexual freedom” in its various manifestations;

2) “FEEL GOOD” COMPROMISE: support the “middle ground” of civil unions/domestic partnership. (We won’t call it “marriage,” but the media will.) This actually rewards homosexual activism by legitimizing “gay” relationships — thus creating a faulty paradigm of “acceptable, responsible” homosexuality. This option will confuse youth and help all homosexuals rationalize their immoral relationships. It also will embolden “gay” advocates in their struggle to legalize “same-sex marriage”;

3) STAND ON PRINCIPLE: recognize that homosexual behavior and homosexual relationships are always wrong and must not be rewarded by our government or by our laws. Resist all attempts to confirm youth in counterfeit homosexual, bisexual or “transgender” identities. Extend the hope of the life-changing Gospel to homosexual strugglers while fighting the “gay” political/cultural agenda with everything you’ve got.

We at Americans For Truth hope that you will join us in pursuing Option Three. God bless. — Peter LaBarbera

And for those who say Mary's choice does not affect them... Shame on you for not standing on principle.
435 posted on 12/07/2006 3:14:52 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (Abortion is to family planning what bankruptcy is to financial planning)
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To: ChurtleDawg

sir ... I bow to you ... BEST RESPONSE EVER!!!!


436 posted on 12/07/2006 6:49:08 PM PST by SubGeniusX ("BLAMMO! Eyes melt, skin explodes, everybody dead!")
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To: dfwgator
I think Tommy (Cousin Kevin and Uncle Ernie) pretty much was your proof right there.

Pictures of Lily struck me funny the first time I heard it too. It took me a while to put it all together (Pictures of Lily, Tommy, Quadrophenia, Rough Boys, etc.). It all added up to someone who was probably molested as a child. When he said he knew how it felt to be "loved like a woman," that was enough. I put all the old Who vinyl into storage, never to be heard again. Someday, I hope to sell them to an aging hippie for some serious money.
437 posted on 12/07/2006 8:41:12 PM PST by Antoninus (Rudy as nominee = President Hillary. Why else do you think the media love him?)
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To: Irish Eyes
She seems to have a very stable relationship, wants a child and everyone in the family is ok with her decision from what I have heard.

Exactly. If it feels good, do it. Don't worry about what the squares say, dude.

When did FR start attracting 1960s retread ideology, anyway?
438 posted on 12/07/2006 8:45:25 PM PST by Antoninus (Rudy as nominee = President Hillary. Why else do you think the media love him?)
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To: HitmanLV; Responsibility2nd
Mary Cheney’s action sets an example that is detrimental for mothers with less financial resources who will start down an irrevocable path into poverty that tends to be generational –– children in households without a father tend to themselves have unwed births later in life.

No, Mary Cheney’s action doesn't set an example that is detrimental for mothers with less financial resources who will start down an irrevocable path into poverty that tends to be generational. Young, poor women were having children out of wedlock long before Mary's mother was even born. It isn't Mary's action that sets an example, but our morally bankrupt society as a whole sets the tone which creates a fertile ground for actions like this to flourish.

To point out one individual as the cause celebre for dysfunctional families in America reaches a new low in the arena of melodramatics.

Would Mary's marriage to a financially successful man ensure the wellbeing of her child? Isn't it a fact that Mary's sexual orientation is an impediment to such a relationship, and no marriage to a man would change this fact?

The writer's position is that women shouldn't have children out of wedlock – and I agree with that. However, abortion isn't the solution to remedy such pregnancies.

It is true that a fatherless child might tend to derail, but so are the children of married heterosexual couples. There is more danger to our children's wellbeing from exposure to the sexual escapades and drug filled orgies of our pop culture icons and politicians, as well as the sexually immature antics of pop artists like Britney Spears and Paris Hilton, than exposure to a woman choosing to NOT aborting her child.

As I see it, the problem isn't having a child, but the environment in which this child will grow up. Mary is a successful woman, I'm sure she doesn't need welfare or government handouts to raise her child, but it is her sexual orientation that will deprive her child of a a father figure, and he or she will grow up with a distorted sense of what family means.

Is she selfish for doing this? Yes, I believe so, and I might add that she is also wrong, but under such circumstances – being that Mary is a lesbian – marrying a man to have a child wouldn't have changed the view point of the child. As he/she got older, he/she would've realized that his/her mother didn't love nor even like his father, and that she preferred women, resulting in a child's distorted sense of traditional family values.

439 posted on 12/07/2006 9:17:03 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul

I agree with your sentiments entirely. Giving Mary Cheney too much credit or heat is misplaced. I don't know why some folks would be unusually fixated by her case.


440 posted on 12/07/2006 9:35:29 PM PST by HitmanLV (Rock, Rock, Rock and Rollergames! Rockin' & Rolling, Rockin' with Rollergames!)
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To: HitmanLV
Giving Mary Cheney too much credit or heat is misplaced. I don't know why some folks would be unusually fixated by her case.

There's nothing more appealing and satisfying than rubbing people's noses in an "I am better than you" blanket. Perhaps some people have too much time on their hands - that tends to be the main contributor to this lamentable malady, which affects a lot of us.

441 posted on 12/07/2006 9:49:55 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul

Wise words. ;-)


442 posted on 12/07/2006 9:50:53 PM PST by HitmanLV (Rock, Rock, Rock and Rollergames! Rockin' & Rolling, Rockin' with Rollergames!)
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To: xsmommy

"You see, i talk to my kids about right and wrong and what is good for society and that which is inadvisable, in the context of current events, so that they are not inured to the degradation of our society. if one doesn't provide a moral framework for one's children and leaves them to absorb the morals of popular culture it is even more lamentable."

Absolutely agree and well stated.


443 posted on 12/08/2006 6:28:42 AM PST by tuffydoodle (Shut up voices, or I'll poke you with a Q-Tip again.)
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To: Victoria Delsoul; tuffydoodle
Is she selfish for doing this? Yes, I believe so, and I might add that she is also wrong, but under such circumstances – being that Mary is a lesbian – marrying a man to have a child wouldn't have changed the view point of the child. As he/she got older, he/she would've realized that his/her mother didn't love nor even like his father, and that she preferred women, resulting in a child's distorted sense of traditional family values.

I absolutely agree, however, the answer is to NOT HAVE A CHILD. just because you are a woman and capable of childbearing doesn't mean that it is ESSENTIAL that you give birth. that is where the selfishness comes in, in this or any case like it, the absolute need to bear a child, just because i can. it can't possibly be to experience the joy of making a child with her partner, because that isn't biologically possible. there is no way to produce a child that is a product of a lesbian relationship. so truly it is all about her and her need to have a child just because she wants to, and can. and i disagree that it is any sense of being better than someone else that has people up in arms on this thread. like i said, i have kids and i talk to them about our culture and what is right and what is wrong. there are far too many WRONG things that need to be explained. my 18 year old daughter was profoundly disappointed to hear this news.

444 posted on 12/08/2006 6:47:22 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: Antoninus
Pictures of Lily struck me funny the first time I heard it too. It took me a while to put it all together (Pictures of Lily, Tommy, Quadrophenia, Rough Boys, etc.). It all added up to someone who was probably molested as a child. When he said he knew how it felt to be "loved like a woman," that was enough. I put all the old Who vinyl into storage, never to be heard again. Someday, I hope to sell them to an aging hippie for some serious money.

Before we return to arguing about the unimportant stuff......please give another thought to why you put the old Who stuff away. Pete Townshend is a writer, and like all writers he creates stories and characters. That doesn't mean he is that character or even approves of what that character does. Satan is the coolest character in Paradise Lost, but that doesn't mean we should shut Milton away. I'm sure much of what Townshend writes about does come from personal experience, but if he was molested as a child (which I also believe), why should that make you think less of him?

As you might have guessed, Quadrophenia is my favorite. It came out when I was in high school, but even though I was a Who fan I didn't buy it because I thought you had to have a quadrophonic stereo system to listen to it (stupid boy that I was). In college, I started listening to my roommate's eight-track version of it, and I played it so often that the people on my floor bought me the album for my birthday. I had the great pleasure of seeing The Who perform the entire album on tour in 1996 and 1997. I also saw them just last September, and despite the sad losses of Moon and Entwistle, they still put on a kick-a** show.

And speaking of Entwistle, by the way, he is actually the one who wrote both Cousin Kevin and Fiddle About (Uncle Ernie). The Ox was one disturbed dude!
445 posted on 12/08/2006 7:15:39 AM PST by drjimmy
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To: drjimmy
My disillusionment with the Who went through several phases. The realization that Peter Townsend is a deeply disturbed person was only the final straw.

I started out believing that both he and his band-mates were musical geniuses--and cool, to boot. Of course, I was 15 or so at the time and thought Rolling Stone magazine was the ultimate arbiter of good and bad, quality and junk. Inevitably, I grew up and my horizons broadened. I got beyond "rock opera" and discovered real opera--Mozart, Rossini, Beethoven. Then I found religious music--Mozart's Requiem, Bach's Masses, Handel's Messiah, Palestrina, etc. In comparison to these enduring works of true genius, Quadrophenia and Tommy appeared as kitchy pieces of ephemera produced by a truly sick individual with no sense of the transcendant.

Of course, I didn't stop liking the music at that point--it still had a certain "rebellion" value attached to it that appealed me as an 18 year old. Then I saw the Who in concert in 1989. They were lame. Peter Townsend's years of ultra-loud riffing had destroyed his hearing and he was forced to perform behind glass with an electrified accoustic guitar. They looked old and tired--an act mailing it in in search of a paycheck.

But the last straw was all the homo-stuff that I never put together until his "loved like a woman" comments. Now, the Who was no longer even cool--just pathetic.

That said, wanna buy my Who vinyl? $50 a pop and they're yours.
446 posted on 12/08/2006 8:10:47 AM PST by Antoninus ("Dealing with the pampered and effeminate Americans will be easy." --Osama bin Laden)
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To: xsmommy

I'm still slowly reading through this thread (sorry I missed it when it was active) but I haven't seen this point made: when saying that what consenting adults do in the bedroom is nobodys business, consider the early 1980's. The bathhouses were in full swing, it was "consenting adults" using them and they were saying it was nobodys business. Then along comes AIDS, spread profusely among gays in the bathhouses. Suddenly, it becomes everyone's business. Immoral behavior affects everyone, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually, we all pay for it. Mary Cheney having a baby out of wedlock is miniscule piece of the puzzle, but a piece nonetheless.


447 posted on 12/08/2006 8:13:10 AM PST by tuffydoodle (Shut up voices, or I'll poke you with a Q-Tip again.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
The baby has only one mother and one father. All this pregnancy does is highlight the farce that is lesbianism. How can the desire to have sex with women go with the desire to bear children? It can't, not logically. Welcome to the end result of elevating so-called human reason and will above all else. It ends in contradiction and absurdity. There is such a thing as truth and it is not derived from our own emotions. I want therefore I am will eventually bump into reality.
448 posted on 12/08/2006 10:44:17 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: xsmommy
just because you are a woman and capable of childbearing doesn't mean that it is ESSENTIAL that you give birth. that is where the selfishness comes in, in this or any case like it, the absolute need to bear a child, just because i can. it can't possibly be to experience the joy of making a child with her partner, because that isn't biologically possible.

Faulty logic.

So a couple who can't have kids, their parenting experience is somehow lessened by adopting?

They can't "experience the joy of making a child with her partner", after all.

449 posted on 12/08/2006 2:35:25 PM PST by highball (Proud to announce the birth of little Highball, Junior - Feb. 7, 2006!)
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To: xsmommy

The root of that selfishness your refer to is anger.

What these ninnies have done is immoral and destructive.


450 posted on 12/08/2006 2:40:35 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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