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Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Reaction Thread - SPOILERS!!!!
me | 7/21/2007 | me

Posted on 07/21/2007 5:18:11 PM PDT by JenB

So you finally know what happens to Harry. All our questions are answered. Or not. What are your reactions? Whose death hurt the most? Do you want more, and about whom?

SPOILERS are ok on this thread! You have been warned!

Wow. It's over.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: harrypotter
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To: grellis

Plus she never turned to look at him when she said that Harry was dead, she was looking toward the castle. He was too shaken to notice, like you said he heard what he wanted to.


1,151 posted on 07/25/2007 9:12:11 AM PDT by EmilyGeiger
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To: EmilyGeiger

Peeves, isn’t a ghost though, he’s a poltergeist and I always assumed that was something rather different. None of the other ghosts can touch physical things but obviously Peeves can.


1,152 posted on 07/25/2007 9:12:24 AM PDT by JenB
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To: Hoodlum91

Now we know the purpose behind the encyclopedia. :) Too much information in the epilogue would ruin the sales of the additional book.


1,153 posted on 07/25/2007 9:14:02 AM PDT by EmilyGeiger
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To: JenB

Yes, still he was an interesting character. I wanted to know more about him, why he acted the way he did, how he died, etc.


1,154 posted on 07/25/2007 9:15:09 AM PDT by EmilyGeiger
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To: EmilyGeiger

No, I’m pretty sure he didn’t die because he’s not a ghost. He’s something else. I think he has always been a poltergeist, it’s like a ghoul or some other magical creature. Like a boggart.


1,155 posted on 07/25/2007 9:17:33 AM PDT by JenB
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To: IDontLikeToPayTaxes
What do you expect from a teenage witch?

I'd prefer her to be a little stronger emotionally, but even the best of us warriors get a bit frustrated....

1,156 posted on 07/25/2007 9:22:48 AM PDT by Maigrey (The wand chooses the wizard, as much as the wizard chooses the wand... Mr. Ollivander)
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To: Obi-Wandreas
Remember, Malfoy actually disarmed him. Malfoy used expelliarmus on Dumbledore the moment he arrived at the tower. Malfoy actually did win it by force, just by getting the drop on him.

But my point was that he WANTED to be defeated in a duel.

Mark

1,157 posted on 07/25/2007 9:35:14 AM PDT by MarkL (Listen, Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government)
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To: JenB

Clare just finished the book; she loved it, too! She was up all night reading, though, so she’s in bed now. We’ll chat about it when she wakes up.


1,158 posted on 07/25/2007 9:39:25 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: EmilyGeiger

Exactly!

I think Ms Rowling will not only complete the Encyclopedia but I wouldn’t be shocked if she spins out tales on the children and/or other characters. If not, I’m sure fan fiction will abound!


1,159 posted on 07/25/2007 9:53:45 AM PDT by Hoodlum91 (I support global warming.)
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To: MarkL
Quite the opposite.

You'll recall, that by asking Snape to kill him, and making sure that Snape was the one to do it, Dumbledore was trying to insure that he was never defeated.

If Snape had killed Dumbledore before Malfoy got to him, Dumbledore would have remained the master of the Elder Wand. Since Snape was just carrying out his orders, it wouldn't be a defeat for him. The wand's power would have died with him.

Malfoy, by getting the drop on him, gained the Elder Wand for himself. Thankfully, however, he never knew it until it was too late.

1,160 posted on 07/25/2007 9:54:46 AM PDT by Obi-Wandreas (We gotta go to the crappy town where I'm a hero)
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To: r9etb
Learning that Petunia had actually corresponded with Dumbledore irretrievably smashes the barrier between the wizard and muggle worlds.

Yes, I recall Harry being befuddled at the collision of the two worlds, and suddenly becoming powerfully aware that Petunia was his mother's sister.

I've been re-reading parts of Hallows now, and am still finding things I don't understand. For instance, couldn't Kreacher have saved Regulus? Kreacher was able to disapparate from the Inferi, and we know he can take other people with him when he disapparates. He does it to Mundungus Fletcher, and Dobby apparates with Harry. Did Regulus want to die? Have to die? Or, more prosaicially, why didn't they just bring water with him on the return trip to the island? I guess there was sure to be some magical preventative there. It also struck me as interesting that Mad Eye, Lupin, and Snape all die-- that curse that Snape put on the post of Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher seems to be a pretty potent one! Even Moody, who never actually filled the post, gets it.

1,161 posted on 07/25/2007 10:09:53 AM PDT by GraceCoolidge
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To: Maigrey; IDontLikeToPayTaxes

Well heck, I was choked up a fair bit through the book myself, and I’m neither teenaged nor a girl.

By contrast, my wife and I marveled how incredibly sharp and quick-witted Hermione was. You want to count something, count how many times she saved their bacon by coming up with something in a split-second (stairs, Harry’s swollen face, etc.).


1,162 posted on 07/25/2007 10:41:01 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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Something brilliant, I should have specified.

To me, this is the book in which Hermione finally comes into her own.

1,163 posted on 07/25/2007 10:47:25 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Obi-Wandreas

That’s what I get for getting into a discussion after reading all night and going to work...

I can’t wait till I get off of work - 6:00pm, so I can go home, and “I’ll be in my bunk.” (to sleep, not for Jayne’s reason!)

Mark


1,164 posted on 07/25/2007 10:53:38 AM PDT by MarkL (Listen, Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government)
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To: Corin Stormhands
Arwen/Aragorn smoochie scenes

A friend of mine calls her "Arwendy." Speaking for myself, I think Liv Tyler is attractive enough, but she has that trout lip thing going.

In the LOTR movies, she always looks like she's about to start drooling.

1,165 posted on 07/25/2007 11:01:21 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: BibChr

Finally got around to reading that. MAN that’s funny...

FANS SEEING THIS AGAIN BECAUSE JOSS WHEDON IS OUR MASTER: AAAUGH! Whedon, you bastard!

*snork*


1,166 posted on 07/25/2007 11:02:22 AM PDT by RosieCotton
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To: Dianna
Well, here is my horcrux question. I remember many posters floating "Harry is a horcrux" theories before the release of the book. I was convinced that was impossible, shows what I know.

Now, here is what else is puzzling me. Harry is, albeit unwittingly, the seventh horcrux. In Hallows, there is some discussion (between Harry and Hermione, I think) about the risk of being too close to a horcrux for any length of time. Even wearing the locket turns out to be risky. And Hermione points out that the reason Ginny got into real trouble was that she opened herself emotionally to the horcrux that was Riddle's diary, a risk also spelled out in Chamber of Secrets. It is made very clear that there is real danger in becoming emotionally close to a horcrux. So, as Harry is the horcrux, how come for seven books, everyone from Dumbledore to Ginny gets so emotionally close to him with no ill effects?

1,167 posted on 07/25/2007 11:02:55 AM PDT by GraceCoolidge
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To: GraceCoolidge

Because they didn’t wear him around their necks?


1,168 posted on 07/25/2007 11:07:23 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: BibChr

Hmmmm. Maybe Harry is a “horcrux lite,” but even so, Ginny didn’t have the diary with her all the time. In fact, I think it continued to exert power over her even after Harry took it into his possession (after she tried to throw it away).


1,169 posted on 07/25/2007 11:16:35 AM PDT by GraceCoolidge
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To: RosieCotton

I also like the fans who’ve not seen the movie wondering why their friends who have seen it are whimpering.

Have you seen the “How It Should Have Ended” animations? They do one of Lord of the Rings that’s hysterical.


1,170 posted on 07/25/2007 11:24:24 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: BibChr
I also like the fans who’ve not seen the movie wondering why their friends who have seen it are whimpering.

That was me...I practically had my hands over my eyes and fingers in my ears at that part on subsequent viewings. *shudder*

Haven't seen the "How It Should Have Ended" things...I'll look it up later!

1,171 posted on 07/25/2007 11:29:27 AM PDT by RosieCotton
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To: RosieCotton

(I’d do it for you, but YouTube is blocked at my work. There are several of them, and all the ones I saw were funny to varying degrees.)


1,172 posted on 07/25/2007 11:30:20 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: JenB

To answer one of your original questions, the death that keeps hurting the most is Snape’s. I would have hoped for them to come to some understanding while Snape still lived, for Harry to say how sorry he was for his dad’s behavior.

But this way makes it more tragic, and sadder. Harry barely gets there in time to see him die so ignominiously, having no idea what it means. But Snape does, and with his last breath, he tells Harry to look at him — so that (we surmise) he can see those eyes, so like Lilly’s eyes, that he’s dying for.

So bitterly sad.


1,173 posted on 07/25/2007 11:35:37 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Tax-chick
I see your point, too, and I don’t think an overtly Christian message would have been appropriate to the story. I just think it’s inconsistent to have, for instance, celebrations of Christmas and Easter when (apparently) no character practices Christianity.

The books are definitely shown from Harry's perspective, and certainly he would not have picked up any Christianity from the Dursleys, so I don't think Harry is religious at all. I don't think that means *none* of the characters are Christian, just that Harry doesn't particularly observe it if they are. In the graveyard, Harry doesn't recognize or understand the "last enemy to be destroyed is death" quote, but Hermione seems to, and even though she doesn't explicitly say it's from the New Testament she does explain that it means life after death. Certainly we don't see any gung-ho vocal Christians, and Harry would surely notice if, say, the Weasleys were weekly church-goers, but the reality is that most nominal 'Christians' are not particularly devout, either (especially in the UK, compared to the US).

1,174 posted on 07/25/2007 11:43:09 AM PDT by Sloth (The GOP is to DemonRats in politics as Michael Jackson is to Jeffrey Dahmer in babysitting.)
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To: JenB
Just finished the book! Now I only have 1100+ posts to wade through!

Join y'all soon at the end.

1,175 posted on 07/25/2007 11:54:41 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a Liberal when I married her.)
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To: BibChr; JenB

I think Snape’s death is sad. But at the same time it’s full of redemption. He knows, as well as Harry that he ~must~ die for Voldemort to be defeated.

He also knows that by giving Harry his memory, Harry will understand.

And I think, as shown by the portrait’s of the Headmasters (discussed upthread), Snape knows the outcome and he would have heard what Harry said to Voldemort.


1,176 posted on 07/25/2007 11:56:54 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (I drink coffee for your protection.)
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To: BibChr

Wasn’t Snape the one who alerted the Order at the end of OoTP. How is it that no one else recognized his Patronus? Sirius would have had a field day with that one.


1,177 posted on 07/25/2007 11:58:51 AM PDT by TightyRighty
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To: Tanniker Smith

I’ve been wondering when you’d show up.


1,178 posted on 07/25/2007 11:59:58 AM PDT by TightyRighty
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To: Sloth

Excellent points. You’re right about the unlikelihood of Harry’s having much contact with practicing Christians. Obviously someone in the fictional world goes to church, since they were having a Christmas Eve service in Godric’s Hollow when Harry and Hermione arrived there.

My sister-in-law is the daughter of a Church of England priest. I wonder what she thinks about the whole thing!


1,179 posted on 07/25/2007 12:04:54 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Go ahead and water the lawn - my give-a-damn's busted.")
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To: Sloth
They celebrate Christmas and Easter in the books and the dead are buried in a churchyard. (Hallowed ground - anathema to the traditional view of witches) They mention God several times although not in a religious context.

There's another Biblical quote in "Deathly Hallows." "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." That's from Matthew 6:19-24.

Now where's the "Harry Potter is the Devil" "Rowling is the Antichrist" crowd?

1,180 posted on 07/25/2007 12:06:02 PM PDT by CholeraJoe ("It's like being a house elf, but without the job satisfaction.")
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To: GraceCoolidge
It also struck me as interesting that Mad Eye, Lupin, and Snape all die-- that curse that Snape put on the post of Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher seems to be a pretty potent one! Even Moody, who never actually filled the post, gets it.

That is what surprised me when JKR didn't kill off that ugly toad Umbridge.

1,181 posted on 07/25/2007 12:09:50 PM PDT by cuz_it_aint_their_money (Fred Thompson & Duncan Hunter in '08)
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To: CholeraJoe
Now where's the "Harry Potter is the Devil" "Rowling is the Antichrist" crowd?

They're on the Tammy Faye thread.

1,182 posted on 07/25/2007 12:09:53 PM PDT by TightyRighty
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To: GraceCoolidge

“Now, here is what else is puzzling me. Harry is, albeit unwittingly, the seventh horcrux. In Hallows, there is some discussion (between Harry and Hermione, I think) about the risk of being too close to a horcrux for any length of time. Even wearing the locket turns out to be risky. And Hermione points out that the reason Ginny got into real trouble was that she opened herself emotionally to the horcrux that was Riddle’s diary, a risk also spelled out in Chamber of Secrets. It is made very clear that there is real danger in becoming emotionally close to a horcrux. So, as Harry is the horcrux, how come for seven books, everyone from Dumbledore to Ginny gets so emotionally close to him with no ill effects?”

Ok, here is what I think. The horcrux that reside in Harry is not able to build up too much negative power because the scar on harry’s forehead acts like a pressure relief valve and bleeds it off.


1,183 posted on 07/25/2007 12:10:54 PM PDT by crude77
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To: TightyRighty

I wonder if Tammy Faye’s eyebrows will have to be buried separately with little tiny oak stakes through them?


1,184 posted on 07/25/2007 12:13:52 PM PDT by CholeraJoe ("It's like being a house elf, but without the job satisfaction.")
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To: JenB

I was surprised JKR omitted a final word
about Harry assuming guardianship of
Tonk’s and Remus’ newborn son. It was
obviously her intention to have Harry
do a repeat of the Godfather role played
by Sirius. Other people left in Limbo:
the Half-Blood Prince Snape.
Professor McGonigal,
Hagrid,
the Malfoy Family, Draco - maybe beause
of Dumbledore’s explicit request for his life,
but Lucius and his wife are accepted into
‘polite society’?
And WHO rebuilt the destroyed Hogwartz?

Some of the lengthy chapters wherein Harry
and Hermione fend their way across the
countryside minus Ron could have been
abbreviated. Too many pages spent
on Harry’s Dumbledore disillusionment.

Interesting additions: the pensive
childhood revelations re Snape and
Lily/Petunia and Dumbledore’s family.


1,185 posted on 07/25/2007 12:19:44 PM PDT by Grendel9
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To: Grendel9; JenB

But, didn’t Teddy’s grandmother live? (Tonks’ Mom). Maybe Teddy still lived with her.


1,186 posted on 07/25/2007 12:22:15 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (I drink coffee for your protection.)
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To: JenB; All

Ok, I have a question. Bathilda Bagsly(?) was able to “see” Herry and Hermione even though they were under the invisibilty cloak. Now I think this was because it was not in fact Bathilda, but was instead, Nagini the snake. The snake was able to sense their body heat and thus “see” them.

Now, when Harry met Voldemort in the forest the snake was still inside his protective bubble. But after Narcissa proclaimed Harry dead the protection was lifted from Nagini.I wonder why the snake was not able to detect that harry was actually alive?


1,187 posted on 07/25/2007 12:22:40 PM PDT by crude77
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To: JenB; SuziQ; All

Speaking of Bathilda Bagshot, anyone else think the “Bagshot” is a nod to Tolkien?


1,188 posted on 07/25/2007 12:30:15 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (I drink coffee for your protection.)
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To: GraceCoolidge

I’m not really sure at where you get the idea of no ill effect. A lot of bad stuff happens to people close to Harry throughout the books, sure nobody gets possessed like Ginny did by the diary, but the list of dead, maimed, injured, and heartbroken is pretty long and fairly inclusive. And one has to wonder how much the possession of Ginny was the result of her being close to two horcruxes.


1,189 posted on 07/25/2007 12:32:15 PM PDT by discostu (indecision may or may not be my biggest problem)
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To: Corin Stormhands

That’s what I thought. I know Ted Tonks was killed, but I don’t think his wife did.


1,190 posted on 07/25/2007 12:33:06 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: TightyRighty
How is it that no one else recognized his Patronus? Sirius would have had a field day with that one.

Sirius and Lupin probably did recognize his patronus, but it would have come as no surprise that he loved Lily Evans -- they knew that already, at school.

And perhaps one of the reasons Snape hated Sirius so much was precisely that he would recognize his patronus.

1,191 posted on 07/25/2007 12:35:48 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: Corin Stormhands

Didn’t she get blasted for similarities between Potter and LoTR? If I remember correctly Dobby was compared to Gollum. If that was the case, I think she’d want to steer as far away from Tolkien as she could.


1,192 posted on 07/25/2007 12:42:05 PM PDT by TightyRighty
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To: Corin Stormhands

Andromeda Tonks, Teddy’s grandmother survived.


1,193 posted on 07/25/2007 12:43:59 PM PDT by CholeraJoe ("It's like being a house elf, but without the job satisfaction.")
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To: TightyRighty

Yes, but just about every fantasy writer has been blamed for stealing from Tolkien and Lewis.

I think it was the movie reviews that did more comparison of Dobby and Gollum.


1,194 posted on 07/25/2007 12:44:50 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (I drink coffee for your protection.)
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To: Corin Stormhands

Tolkien and Wagner stole the Ring from the same sources.

There are only a few stories.


1,195 posted on 07/25/2007 12:46:41 PM PDT by js1138
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To: js1138

And the old wizard gets killed in every one of them. Eragon’s the same way.


1,196 posted on 07/25/2007 12:49:34 PM PDT by CholeraJoe ("It's like being a house elf, but without the job satisfaction.")
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To: BibChr

Snape is definitely the one whose death seemed the emptiest... no particular closing out there, just the knowledge that he had to die. The only part I’m sorry about was that he died thinking it was all for nothing and that Lily’s son was soon to die.

I don’t think Harry needed to apologize for his father’s actions. Harry is Harry and James was James, and I do think that most of James and Snape’s rivalry was over Lily. And most of that was Snape’s doing, I believe. I think he always felt deep down that he wasn’t good enough for Lily, it seems the sort of thing an abused child would think. And then his actions kept pushing her away. Like on some level he wanted her away from him, felt he couldn’t make her happy and James - who was everything Snape wanted to be - could.

But in the end neither man’s love was enough to save her. Her love was what ultimately saved everything, her love for Harry and the friendly shining love that young Snape saw in her from childhood influenced him to do the rest.

Presumably, her love made James grow up into a better person than he was when we saw him at 15. Her love made Snape realize what he was doing. And I think Petunia’s memory of Lily’s love is what made her take in Harry in the first place.


1,197 posted on 07/25/2007 12:49:35 PM PDT by JenB
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To: Grendel9
Too many pages spent on Harry’s Dumbledore disillusionment.

Actually, based on some recent personal experiences, that part rang true for me. The disillusionment is rarely instantaneous and finally, at some point, one is forced to make a choice.

Dumbledore was still "mostly right" in terms of dealing with Voldemort -- his weaknesses were more personal than mission-related, so Harry's choice is still fairly straightforward.

It's a bit less easy when the object of your disillusionment appears to be "wrong" about the important stuff. Or wrong about some of the important stuff, but not all of it, and it's not easy to tell the difference.

The plot might have been more interesting if Rowling had found some way to sharpen the importance of deciding between Hallows and Horcruxes -- perhaps something along the lines of the Hallows being capable of directly dealing with the horcruxes, but Harry is forced to choose only one or the other because there's not enough time to do both. It would have been interesting also to have Voldemort be aware of the Hallows, so that they both have to decide.

1,198 posted on 07/25/2007 12:51:00 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: CholeraJoe
And the old wizard gets killed in every one of them. Eragon’s the same way.

Bah. Eragon (and Eldest) are cheap rehashes of every book and movie cliche that Christopher Paolini has ever read or seen.

Eragon the book was predictable but basically OK, because it did have some interesting ideas and settings.

Eldest, however, was awful. He basically grabbed his "main supporting cast" from Star Wars and LOTR. I won't read the third book if and when it appears.

1,199 posted on 07/25/2007 12:58:34 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb

I saw the movie then bought the two books. I slugged through “Eragon” but couldn’t handle “Eldest.” I’ll probably use it to start fires this winter.


1,200 posted on 07/25/2007 1:11:37 PM PDT by CholeraJoe ("It's like being a house elf, but without the job satisfaction.")
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