Skip to comments.Re:"Mal and Val - not Ann and the Old Man" Any evidence Valerie Sarruf is Obama's mom? (vanity)
Posted on 08/01/2012 11:18:33 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
"Meet The Parents....of alias Barack Obama. Black Sunni Muslim father and White Lebanese Christian mother. Born in the ME, raised in Indonesia, became BHO II in 1982." Dr. Ron J. Polland
The Mal-Val youtube video at the link was posted by FReeper Polarik (Dr. Ron Polland) in August of 2011 and while morphing the image of a woman named Val into an image of Obama, he insinuates that Val is Obamas mom. One year later this youtube has only 1,150 views.
In July 2012, two FReepers associated the woman, Val, in Polariks Youtube with Lebanese actress Valerie Sarruf and have posted multiple images of her at various ages on FR eligibility threads. I am opening this thread to invite discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf is Barack Obamas mother, with or without Malcolm X being his father.
Where could Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf have been in 1960 when baby Barry would have been conceived? Is there any evidence that Sarruf could have been pregnant and delivered a baby in 1961? In what country could the baby have been delivered? How and when could the alleged Mal-Val baby have been inserted into the identity and life narrative of the person we have come to know as Barack Hussein Obama?
Full disclosure: I refute categorically all of the Mal-Val narrative as wildly speculative and unsupported by any evidence that I have seen so far.
For several years now a shadowy coterie of FReepers styling themselves as researchers has gone onto nearly every FR eligibility thread to aggressively refute all evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was Barack Obamas mother. They have actually declared flat out that she was never in Hawaii before 1963, contrary to the voluminous evidence including INS FOIA documents!
Requests for links or any evidence that Stanley Ann is NOT the mom have been frequently met with abusive ad hominem attacks and accompanied by claims that ALL documentary evidence showing her to have been in Hawaii in 1960 and 1961 is forged, but no credible evidence of forgery has offered. I make this observation as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner and CPA.
For years the researchers had claimed mysteriously to have conclusive evidence that a different woman is Barrys mom, but refused to reveal her name or any evidence other than her picture because the researchers claimed it would disappear from the net and/or from hard copy archives of the records. But this month, the researchers appear to have slipped up and revealed that Valerie Sarruf has been the woman whose identity they have been protecting. They have since attempted to walk back the revelation, but it is clear, IMO.
The researchers claim that they earnestly want to remove Obama from office. But wouldnt revealing ALL EVIDENCE of a foreign mother and foreign birth (which they also claim) be the most logical approach to removing Obama rather than hiding the identity of this alternative mother for years while attacking FR threads that sincerely attempt to find out where Stanley Ann Dunham was when she gave birth to Barry?
In my opinion, the best evidence that Valerie Sarruf is NOT Barrys mother is the mountain of evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham IS his mother, which the researchers have totally failed to refute.
Again, please use this thread for discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf IS Barack Obamas mother with or without Malcolm X being his father.
To: Fred Nerks; Greenperson; WildHighlander; LucyT; Fantasywriter; rxsid; edge919; Fractal Trader; ...
Greenperson noticed it, the kenyan never claimed Stanley Ann Dunham was his wife nor did he name zero as his son.
That statement is not correct as to Ann (S.) Dunham Obama, the person he named at least two times in the FOIA docs as his his wife, (who can ONLY be the former Stanley Ann Dunham by all evidence), IN HIS OWN HAND:
1. Page 35 signed August 31, 1961 he names as his wife in his handwriting Ann S. Dunham, Honolulu Hawaii after crossing out a different wife name that appears to begin with a K (almost certainly Kezia). In the notes to the interview on that date William F. Wood II records an acknowledgment of Barack Hussein Obama II as the name of the baby and that the baby and mother are living with her parents.
2. Page 14 signed April 21, 1964 BHO Sr. writes Ann Obama c/o Univ. of Hawaii in his own hand. There is only ONE such person on record at U of Hawaii. The notes in the hand of the INS official add Legal Separation, USC 2 MOS. AGO, Barack Obama 2nd, 2 yrs. USC doubtless obtained from BHO Sr. himself in an interview on that date. That timing of legal separation matches the divorce court proceedings in HI. Sr. was actually divorced as of April 21, but apparently lied to the INS interviewer.
Verbal representations of BHO Sr. recorded by INS officials in notes to the file and in entries made by officials needed to complete blocks on forms needed for administrative adjudication are just as conclusive for the legal record as entries on the forms in the hand of BHO Sr., IMO.
11,144 posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 10:46:23 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: All; Fred Nerks
Per Fred Nerks:
By the time you authenticate every document you have ever seen and every entry in directories, and accepted every statement made by classmates who have been entrapped by their lies, you might as well go back to quoting straight from Dreams because thats what you are doing, whether you realize it or not.
Link please to any time I have quoted Dreams other than to denounce co-author Bill Ayers or to point out inconsistencies or misquotes.
I scrupulously avoid using Dreams as an original or secondary source. You, on the other hand, have frequently quoted from Dreams. You are especially fond of the passages about Stanley Ann being an alleged au pair in Chicago and Auma recounting things Mamma Sarah supposedly said about some of Barrys half-brothers.
You also used Barrys Dreams account as your original source (via another author who used Dreams as her source) for your claim to know that Barry travelled alone to HI.
I challenged you on how you knew that and it came back to Barry himself.
11,273 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 12:59:51 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: All; Fred Nerks; WildHighlander57; Fantasywriter
Per Fred Nerks:
However, you do have one little problem in your posting history - in which you maintain he was the son of Frank Marshall Davis because the high school girl had the hots for an ugly old black older than her own father, and the KGB financed her trip to give birth in Kenya.
I do not maintain he was the son of Frank Marshall Davis. I suggested that as one of several possibilities. I favor BHO Sr. as the sperm donor because Baby David Obama looks very much like Baby Barry.
The SADO in Seattle narrative combined with the INS FOIA documents destroys not only the delusional Mal-Val narrative, but POTUS Barrys Dreams narrative. SADO in Seatle is the ANTI-Dreams narrative, which should be apparent to all FReepers who are paying attention.
11,279 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 1:08:11 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: WildHighlander57; Fred Nerks
IMO it is totally consistent for Stanley Ann to appear in both the HI 1961-62 Polk Directory and the WA 1961-62 Polk directory. She was in HI in 1961 and in WA in late 1961 and early 1962. Absolutely no inconsistency with Polk.
The Polk Directories published names and addresses of persons in a given locality retrospectively during 1961-62. Stanley Ann meets that criteria for both HI and WA.
Her UW transcript corroborates her Anna Obama WA Polk address and Polk places her living at the same address with her parents.
See WND article and images:
If Corsi or the Seattle newspapers thought there was anything funky about Anna Obama in the 1961-62 Polk being Stanley Ann they would have said so, IMO.
11,261 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 12:06:13 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: GregNH; David; LucyT; WildHighlander; Cold Case Posse Supporter; Fantasywriter; philman_36; ...
The other thing to consider is that David has shown that the UoWA transcripts are fake.
There is NO evidence that the U of WA transcripts are fake, but there is evidence that some folks dont know how to assess them and false claims of forgery have been made through inept reading of the WA transcript or intentional deception.
The INS FOIA Wood memo recording what BHO Sr. told Wood on 8/31/61 confirms Stanley Anns intent to go to a university in WA in the fall.
The following are cross-corroborations between the U of HI transcripts and U of WA final transcript notations:
1. The U of HI transcripts pick up Stanley Anns credits at the U of WA in the fall of 1961 and spring of 1962 and use them towards her BA degree.
2. The U of WA transcripts pick up Stanley Anns MA degree work at U of HI.
IMO the claims that the U of WA is forged were based on illogical observations that it didnt look right for a 1961 transcript, but the final transcript put up by WND was NOT a 1961 transcript but a partially automated, partially typed 1970s version in its final form which has also been corroborated by a verifiable image of the fully computerized version on the U of WA system which is available through FOIA today and also published by WND, IIRC.
All of the cross-corroborating, verifiable (could be produced in court) documents would have to be forged for the claim of forgery of the U of WA transcript to be true.
FReepers still in doubt might ask themselves why Stanley Anns attendance in WA would be forged by anyone when it DESTROYS Barrys DREAMS narrative and proved that his parents NEVER lived together EVER when combined with the INS FOIA docs. That is extremely damaging to Barrys falsely constructed persona.
11,315 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 12:17:23 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: Fred Nerks; WildHighlander57; LucyT; Fractal Trader; Flotsam_Jetsome; Cold Case Posse Supporter; ...
Maraniss definitively states that [Dunham] and Obama and the infant never lived [at 6085 Kalanianole]. There was no room. The senior Dunhams shared the house with the Pratt family. The Pratt daughter has no memory of the Dunhams daughter bringing an infant home.
I agree that there is NO evidence that after giving birth Stanley Ann and Barry set foot in Hawaii prior to the fall of 1962 when she returned from spending a year at U of WA. There is NO evidence that BHO Sr. and Ann ever lived together before or after Barry was born, so the foregoing is totally consistent with the Maraniss account. Maraniss is debunking the happy little family for two years in HI myth of Dreams.
The 8/31/61 Wood memo records BHO Sr. CLAIMING that his wife (that he named as Ann S. Dunham) was living with her parents. At the time witnesses place Stanley Ann and Barry in Seattle. This INS FOIA document is verifiable evidence of what BHO Sr. CLAIMED, and not what ACTUALLY happened.
Maraniss does NOT dispute that Stanley Ann lived at that address with her parents prior to the marriage reported to INS as being on Feb 2, 1961. Maraniss only disputes that BHO Sr, Ann and Barry ever lived together with her parents.
If Stanley Ann went to Kenya to have the baby between February and August, and then went to Seattle without returning to Hawaii, the Pratt daughter would never remember the Dunham daughter bringing a baby home consistent with what Maraniss states. That could be very telling.
Note also that Maraniss doesnt say that the Pratt daughter doesnt REMEMBER the Dunham daughter, but only that she doesnt remember the daughter bringing a baby home.
Note also that the Pratt daughter doesnt apparently remember the Dunham daughter being PREGNANT!!! The U of HI officials reported to INS (page 39 dated 4/21/61) that BHO Sr. had married Stanley Ann DUNHAM. Where was she between Feb 2 and late August? That is the question.
11,364 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 9:22:08 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: Fred Nerks; WildHighlander57; LucyT
WHAT IF THE TWO LITTLE BOYS HAD THEIR PHOTO TAKEN IN BOSTON?
That picture BHO Sr. and Ruth Baker Obamas two mixed race boys, David, about age 3 (the one that looks much like but different from Barry) and Mark, about age 5, taken circa 1970 actually COULD have been taken in Boston if Ruth took them to visit her parents.
This picture has been corroborated as being of Mark and David by Mark and Malik and can doubtless be verified in court to be so if it ever came to that.
Only the delusional Mal-Val narrative contends that the boy on the left (David) is baby POTUS Barry and the boy on the right (Mark) was a hidden son of BHO Sr. by the missing wife in the Philippines also named BHO II at birth but stripped of that name and becoming Roman Obama.
The resemblance of baby David to baby POTUS Barry is excellent circumstantial confirming evidence that they are half-brothers with the same father, BHO Sr.
11,378 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 11:20:17 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: Fantasywriter; LucyT; WildHighlander
Watching a certain troll at work putting out tasty fake insinuations and shell game baby pictures intended to seduce sincere newbie FReepers into a delusional cult is like watching a pedophile grooming unsuspecting kids on the playground. Pretty disgusting, IMO.
11,405 posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 6:05:53 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: chicken head
You need to wash your mouth out with soap, you just called David Barry. Might that be because they are so hard to tell apart? Has it penetrated that they are one and the same child?
11,416 posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 7:09:23 PM by Fred Nerks (Come visit Tasmania!)
Take it or leave it. You know my motto. I REPORT YOU DECIDE.
The two sets of images exist, they are the same children. Youve really had enough attention from me, I value my time.
11,402 posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 5:56:52 PM by Fred Nerks (Come visit Tasmania!)
To: All; Fred Nerks; WildHighlander57; LucyT; Fantasywriter
Hey, bring that yearbook back!
Fred Nerks Mal-Val Narrative posits that Stanley Ann did not spend her senior year at Mercer HS but was somewhere else. So this tantalizing tidbit questioning whether Ann in in the Mercer yearbook as a senior is being offered by FN to pique the curiosity of the uninformed and unwary. Stanley Ann was never in HI until 1963, according to Mal-Val. Of course, this claim is delusional!
I dont know who FN thinks would still be on this thread that would fall for this nonsense.
11,456 posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 11:21:11 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
Youre right, and I have always maintained it would take a TEAM who were devoted to the research, our group tried to achieve something like that, but working on the web through nothing more than the facility of correspondence and the compilation of a dossier (which we have located on a private site not in the US) and this is the source of much of what I write. There were nine, sometimes up to 12 of us who collected information, read articles, hunted down sources. And none of us did it for a reward or any other reason than looking for kernels of truth in the maze of lies.
That we reached conclusions that are not mainstream as a result, isnt surprising. Is it?
Has anyone else made any sense of the millions of lies it took to create the myth, and to cover over the cracks that appeared later?
11,515 posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:26:53 PM by Fred Nerks (Come visit Tasmania!)
To: All; Fred Nerks; Fantasywriter; WildHighlander57; LucyT
OR THE U OF WA RECORDS? (Which may NOT have come from the U of WA at all, as there was no provenance with the e-mailed document.
If you go to pages 198 and 200 of Corsis book Wheres The Birth Certificate you will find that the UW transmittal letter and computer transcript was sent by snail mail by Madolyne Lawson of Office of Public Records.
The computer transcript enclosed in the letter matches the image of the transcript card on page 199 of the book.
The verifiable provenance of the letter and transcript can be proved because of the reference by Madolyne Lawson in her transmittal letter to Corsi to the Public Records request #09-11716 in which you requested a copy of Stanley Ann Dunhams records.
This letter of July 29, 2009 includes 8 credits from UH that were accepted as transfer credit which exactly match the 4 credits for Russian and 4 for Philosophy shown on the UW transcript card image on page 199. The transcript card has the address she shared with Mary Toutonghi.
This UW letter cross-corroborates the UH e-mail from Stuart Lao on page 196 and the provenance of that e-mail has been proved over and over by individuals requesting Stanley Anns transcript record from UH, IIRC.
This is verifiable proof that Stanley Ann was at UW
11,537 posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:16:23 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: All; Fred Nerks; Brown Deer; WildHighlander; Fantasywriter; LucyT
He wasnt claimed by Lolo and Stanley Ann on their joint return for 1973, but Maya says he didnt live with Madelyn and Stanley Armour in their apartment until her mother returned to Indonesia in 1976.
Maya was a very small child in 1973 and her memory of who was living with whom and the memories of aging Alice Dewey 50 years after the fact as filtered by a newspaper reporter are interesting but would be unreliable hearsay in court for sound reasons, IMO.
11,578 posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:17:56 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
Anyone can post almost anything on Wikipedia, whether its true, or not.
True, but Wiki has sources and the two sources for the claims are given and I have seen them elsewhere.
When assessing claims regarding records I always ask Is the claim verifiable? Is there a custodian of the document that can be subpoenaed and if they were would their testimony meet the Federal Rules of Evidence (FRE)?
In this case, the answer is yes for both Stanley Anns record in the HI transcript archive and for the Anthropology Dept. archive.
11,598 posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 5:36:36 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: All; Brown Deer; David; WildHighlander57; Fantasywriter; LucyT
Per Brown Deer:
Sorry, I like David, cannot give you a link to any of my personal communications with him. Are you really that ignorant?
As luck would have it Jerome Corsi was on with Mark Gillar this week promoting his new book and although he says the forged BC issue is politically a dead horse, Corsi stands behind all of his published investigations on Barrys origins and Corsi says that he believes Barry will ultimately be found to have been born in Kenya.
Of course, included in Corsis prior published investigations is the finding that Stanley Ann Dunham IS Barrys mom and that her UW transcrips are accurate so she was at UW during the 1961-62 school year.
Audio: Dr. Jerome Corsi; Obama Identity Document Fraud Issue Politically A Dead Horse
11,667 posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 8:26:28 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: Fred Nerks
Neither Kiri Tith nor any of the people who offered copies of their letters to a segment headed REMINISCENSES on the CAMBODIANA website remembered any woman associated with the kenyan student.
But, according to Maraniss, Tith remembers Ann Dunham at UH at the same time as BHO Sr.!
11,679 posted on Saturday, April 20, 2013 12:59:31 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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