Skip to comments.Re:"Mal and Val - not Ann and the Old Man" Any evidence Valerie Sarruf is Obama's mom? (vanity)
Posted on 08/01/2012 11:18:33 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
"Meet The Parents....of alias Barack Obama. Black Sunni Muslim father and White Lebanese Christian mother. Born in the ME, raised in Indonesia, became BHO II in 1982." Dr. Ron J. Polland
The Mal-Val youtube video at the link was posted by FReeper Polarik (Dr. Ron Polland) in August of 2011 and while morphing the image of a woman named Val into an image of Obama, he insinuates that Val is Obamas mom. One year later this youtube has only 1,150 views.
In July 2012, two FReepers associated the woman, Val, in Polariks Youtube with Lebanese actress Valerie Sarruf and have posted multiple images of her at various ages on FR eligibility threads. I am opening this thread to invite discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf is Barack Obamas mother, with or without Malcolm X being his father.
Where could Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf have been in 1960 when baby Barry would have been conceived? Is there any evidence that Sarruf could have been pregnant and delivered a baby in 1961? In what country could the baby have been delivered? How and when could the alleged Mal-Val baby have been inserted into the identity and life narrative of the person we have come to know as Barack Hussein Obama?
Full disclosure: I refute categorically all of the Mal-Val narrative as wildly speculative and unsupported by any evidence that I have seen so far.
For several years now a shadowy coterie of FReepers styling themselves as researchers has gone onto nearly every FR eligibility thread to aggressively refute all evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was Barack Obamas mother. They have actually declared flat out that she was never in Hawaii before 1963, contrary to the voluminous evidence including INS FOIA documents!
Requests for links or any evidence that Stanley Ann is NOT the mom have been frequently met with abusive ad hominem attacks and accompanied by claims that ALL documentary evidence showing her to have been in Hawaii in 1960 and 1961 is forged, but no credible evidence of forgery has offered. I make this observation as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner and CPA.
For years the researchers had claimed mysteriously to have conclusive evidence that a different woman is Barrys mom, but refused to reveal her name or any evidence other than her picture because the researchers claimed it would disappear from the net and/or from hard copy archives of the records. But this month, the researchers appear to have slipped up and revealed that Valerie Sarruf has been the woman whose identity they have been protecting. They have since attempted to walk back the revelation, but it is clear, IMO.
The researchers claim that they earnestly want to remove Obama from office. But wouldnt revealing ALL EVIDENCE of a foreign mother and foreign birth (which they also claim) be the most logical approach to removing Obama rather than hiding the identity of this alternative mother for years while attacking FR threads that sincerely attempt to find out where Stanley Ann Dunham was when she gave birth to Barry?
In my opinion, the best evidence that Valerie Sarruf is NOT Barrys mother is the mountain of evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham IS his mother, which the researchers have totally failed to refute.
Again, please use this thread for discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf IS Barack Obamas mother with or without Malcolm X being his father.
To: Fred Nerks
I thought of that again today when I read that while he was at Harvard, he told his associates that he had visited his son SEVERAL TIMES. Obviously, the son he visited several times wasnt in Hawaii.
I would not be inclined to believe anything BHO Sr. ever said, so I would regard any claim that he visited any son with suspicion and would doubt that he visited either of his two sons on the record, (Barry and Roy) while at Harvard.
There is no evidence that any other son of his existed particularly a son by an Asian mother named Roman Obama as claimed in the Mal-Val narrative (a son being insinuated as having been visited by Sr. while he was at Harvard)
BTW, On Aug. 17, 1962 Sr. did acknowledge son Roy Obama, but not Barry on page 27 of the FOIA docs in his own hand. He claimed to be married on that date, but omitted the wifes name.
11,114 posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:09:56 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: All; Fred Nerks
She took him to see Susan Blake when he was a few weeks old. She presented him as her own. And as theres been no physical sign of her in Hawaii either before or after the miraculous birth, its fair to ask, whose child did she show to Susan Blake?
No evidence for the above claim has been provided and abundant VERIFYABLE evidence refutes it including INS FOIA documents, U of HI transcripts, U of WA transcripts, HI Polk registry, numerous witnesses.
See Mal-Val thread:
11,070 posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 9:16:10 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: justiceseeker93; WildHighlander57; LucyT; Cold Case Posse Supporter; rxsid; Red Steel; ...
Yes, I agree that Woods memo might be a forgery.
I see no evidence of forgery of the Wood memo at all for the following reasons:
The Wood memo written on 8/31/61 (FOIA page 34) is based entirely on CLAIMS made by serial liar BHO Sr. and is 100% consistent with what is in Sr.s best interest to have told Wood regardless of what is true thus earning him the extension he was granted THAT DAY including:
1. saying Barry was born in Honolulu on 8/4 and is a US citizen
2. saying he is married to Stanley Ann and they intend to return to Kenya (return?... Is this a tell?)
If Barry had been born in Kenya, Senior, SADO and her parents would all realize that reporting Barry to have been born in Honolulu would gain Barry invaluable US citizenship in addition to Kenyan citizenship. BHO Sr. has ALWAYS tried to have things both ways if possible at all times (sound familiar for Barry?).
The U of Hawaii approved the extension 8/31 (page 37) probably right before the Wood interview with Sr. and INS granted approval 8/31 but only AFTER William Wood questioned closely BHO Sr. on that date.
The close questioning on 8/31 was recommended on 4/12 in a memo on FOIA page 39 after U of HI reported suspected polygamy or bigamy and Seniors claim that he had divorced Kezia verbally.
INS and U of H officials had no way of knowing that the marriage to Kezia was not Muslim and was governed by UK Kenya Colony Marriage Act of 1902 which does not recognize this Muslim type of verbal divorce, as far as I can tell
11,027 posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:57:29 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: Fred Nerks; WildHighlander; LucyT
BUT as both the Blaine document and the LFBC recently presented, have the AGE OF THE FATHER AS 25 IN 1961, would the obvious question to ask not be...HOW DID THE FORGER OF THE BLAINE DOCUMENT CHOOSE THE AGE PLACED ON THAT DOCUMENT.
Lets remember that the likely incorrect birth year of 1936 is on Sr.s grave marker, so that date of birth has been associated with him for at least as long as that stone was there. Isnt the marker pictured in Dreams? The Blaine document was likely forged in 2009 and the pdf was likely forged in 2011.
10,984 posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 11:49:43 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: Fred Nerks; LucyT; Cold Case Posse Supporter; Red Steel; Kenny Bunk; Flotsam_Jetsome; edge919
The same hand which completed the form dated April 21, 1964 - wrote the name Barack Obama TWICE on the memo in August 1961.
This would imply that the same hand forged both documents which would imply that the INS FOIA documents were all forged. As I explain below, I see no evidence of that, and I have had to assess many signatures professionally, though I dont claim to be an expert.
With reference to the numerous signatures at the link below...
BHO Sr. has a very distinctive and mostly consistent way of writing the capital B in Barack which is not used in the memo purported by be written by Mr. Wood in the 1964 memo.
The short version of my analysis is that Senior makes his B with two strokes and Wood makes his B with a single stroke.
Sr.s B begins with a single down-stroke which often starts too low to form a complete left side of a B. Then he lifts the pen and begins the two loops of the B beginning at the top left of the letter. This results in a notable gap (the size varies) between where the initial downstroke of the B started and where the first loop of the second stroke begins at the top left of the letter B.
Woods B begins with a downstroke starting high on the left and then he retraces back up that first stroke to begin the loops without lifting the pen. So Woods B is completed with a single stroke in both examples in the memo. There is no open gap on the left side of the top B loop in Woods Bs, as there is with Seniors.
Also, when Sr. finishes his B he adds a little delimited loop on the bottom of the lower B loop. When continuing with the lower case portion of Barack, Sr. lifts the pen after completing the loop on the B and begins the lowercase a at the top right of the letter before circling counter-clockwise to complete the letter. Sr. does not retrace across the top of the first a in Barack, but Wood does.
Wood doesnt lift his pen when going from finishing the capital B before going to the a in the first instance of Barack at the top of the memo. Wood cursively goes directly from completing the B to begin the top of the a at the top right of the letter and retraces the top counter-clockwise before completing the a and going on.
These are two very distinctive writing styles, by different people, IMO. I see no evidence or implication of forgery in these or any of the INS FOIA documents.
10,862 posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:34:17 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: All; Fred Nerks; LucyT; Cold Case Posse Supporter; WildHighlander57; philman_36; Fantasywriter
Theres another simple explanation...he simply wasnt married to Kezia and he had no children. In Dreams words are put into the mouth of Auma; granny Sarah tells them, as they dispute who should inherit, none of you are his children
Dreams is totally unreliable and has been forensically demonstrated to have been extensively penned by Bill Ayers, IMO.
The simple explanation is that Sr. was an opportunistic serial liar who put down whichever wives and children he thought would benefit him most at the time, just as he did with his birth year.
On the record, Kezia says she had a tribal marriage with Senior and legitimate biographers at least more independent than Ayers have not even hinted at finding any evidence that Roy and Auma were not BHO Sr.s children.
In one of the FOIA documents where wife is asked for a name appearing to have been a K for Kezia is crossed out and Ann S. Dunham is written in. Just the fact that the name of one wife is scratched out and another substituted implies at least one additional wife.
Also in one of the FOIA docs Roy Obama is named as his son when children are asked for (but not Barry). This son had to come from a prior marriage as declaring bastard children to the INS would be out of the question in 1961, I would think.
In the FOIA docs U of HI officials report to INS that BHO Sr. is believed to still be married in Kenya, even though he married Stanley Ann after getting her happa. INS makes a note to challenge any claim by Sr. to have been married to Stanley Ann based on bigamy and an attempt at using a sham marriage to gain or extend entry to the US.
The Mboya letters archive have BHO Sr. asking Mboya to assist his wife in Nairobi while he is completing his studies at Harvard. I have seen no evidence that the Mboya archive is forged.
10,865 posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:53:14 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: rxsid; little jeremiah; azishot; Fred Nerks
Here’s the guy, “KenyanBCPunkster” who said he created that forgery and who was invited here to troll on behalf of super OBot troll Ender Wiggins, aka Koyaan.
- - - - - - - -
DOH indirectly confirms: Factcheck COLB date filed and certificate number impossible
Saturday, March 6, 2010 5:08:47 PM · 3,001 of 3,700
KenyanBCPunkster to Fred Nerks
Of course it is...the Kenya BC came up again, they want to divert attention from it, by re-introducing the Bomford document.
I didn’t re-introduce the Bomford document. I was specifically asked by several here what the source was.
Forget about the Bomford document. Here’s the first “prototype” I did just to get an idea of how things would look and how to do the seal and “aging” before making the final version.
- - - - - - - - - -
And the rest of his postings.
10,806 posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 9:27:48 PM by Red Steel
To: Fred Nerks
Dates of interest as I have them.
8/31/1961 Obama Senior files for extension. List spouse as Stanley Ann Dunham. Does NOT list Obama II as child in extension. Form list Obama Senior Birth Date as 1934 (not 1936) in his own hand .
6/22/1962 BHO Sr. leaves Hawaii
9/17/1962 Obama Senior writes extension request. In request he indicates his birth date is in 1936 and not 1934. He list Married but no spouse name. List child Roy.
9/18/1962 Lolo Soetoro comes to US.
9/20/1962 SAD returns to Hawaii from Washington. Lives with parents.
6/6/1963 BHO Senior writes extension request with birth date of 1936 instead of 1934. Form is mostly typed. Fields for Spouse and Child are blank. Hand written admin note and arrow to proper indicates He is married.
6/15/1963-9/1/1963 Lolo Soetoro does mainland tour at Northwestern U and Wisconsin U. Dates are not exact.
12/12/1963 Kenya becomes independent.
1/20/1964 Date Stanley Ann signs paper swearing to mistreatment - paper is filed in divorce.
1/23/1964 Filing of Obama Stanley Ann Divorce
3/8/1964 Final divorce Decree for SAD and BHO Sr.
4/21/1964 Obama files extension request. DOB in own hand is 1936 and form list Obama II as USC son who is 2 years old and list SAD as wife (untrue since divorce was final).
4/24/1964 Sukarno arrives in the US. Officially greeted by President Kennedy.
7/6/1964 BHO Sr. leaves US.
Based on these documents Obama adopts a new birth date in between August 31, 1961 and September 17, 1962. In between these dates is when he moved from Hawaii to Harvard.
I have speculated he did this for one of the following reasons:
a) to match-up the incorrect date on Obama IIs forms.
b) He needed to be younger for some reason at Harvard or to stay in the US or some other reason.
It is not just sloppiness by him or administrators. Its in his own hand. He changed it. And once he changed it the 1936 was used continuously. To this day you will find the 1936 date as the official date in biographies, etc. No reporter or investigator or government official has ever explained why he changed his birth date.
11,015 posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 10:25:42 AM by bluecat6 (”All non-denial denials. They doubt our ancestry, but they don’t say the story isn’t accurate. “)
There you go again, playing the victim, stealing more oxygen, you have never, that I can recall, provided one lick of information that might have been of interest, its just poor poor me...and how upset youve been. Cry me a river. We have all had enough of a hard time trying to keep track of the misinformation deliberately spread by the paid operatives, let alone make time to correct such items as the stupid comment made by your hero; that I maintained SAD never saw the child until he was three years old. Thats one straight out of his addled brain. And lifes too short for that.
She took him to see Susan Blake when he was a few weeks old. She presented him as her own. And as theres been no physical sign of her in Hawaii either before or after the miraculous birth, its fair to ask, whose child did she show to Susan Blake?
Like the man said, he didnt go around with his birth certificate plastered to his forehead...
Stop whining and produce something interesting, your buddy is more than capable of sticking it to people with theories he doesnt like, without your help.
Get cracking, we arent here to prove how clever we are, we are trying to fill in a few gaps in the flawed narrative.
11,060 posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 8:21:30 PM by Fred Nerks (E)
ILL LEAVE IT TO THE READERS TO FIGURE OUT THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION:
IF YOU ADD 18 MONTHS TO JULY 1959, DO YOU GET JANUARY AND FEBRUARY 1962?
AND WHO IDENTIFIED ANNA OBAMA AS STANLEY ANN DUNHAM?
Baby Sitting Barack Obama on Seattle¹s Capitol Hill
by Charlette LeFevre and Philip Lipson
Seattle Museum of the Mysteries
Mary Toutonghi, 2009
A simple act of of kindness confirms President Barack Obama residence as an infant in 1962 on Seattle¹s Capitol Hill.
As we were researching the residence of the Capitol Hill apartment that Ann Dunham and her son Barack Obama had lived in 1961 to 1962, (1) - a residence that certainly wasn¹t Abraham Lincoln¹s log cabin but none the less historical, we were also able to find one of the former residents listed in a directory- Mary Toutonghi. Much to our delight it turned out Mary actually knew Ann Dunham and had baby sat baby Barack for two months giving insight on his first year and what it must have been like for Ann Dunham as a single parent.
Mary Toutonghi who now lives in Soldatna Alaska, (2) recalls Barack as ³a really alert baby, very happy and a good size². She does not remember him ever crying (although she adds she is sure he likely did but does not remember any undue fussing). She recalls as best she can the dates she baby sat Barack as her daughter was 18 months old and was born in July of 1959 and that would have placed the months of baby sitting Barack in January and February of 1962. [Note: 9/3/09: I believe Marys daughter was older than what she remembered which would account for the age discrepency].
During our first interview, Mary referred to Stanley Ann Dunham as ³Anna² not knowing that it was the same name as what was listed in the Seattle City Directory. This verified for us that indeed Mary had known Ann Dunham. Anna was obviously confident enough with Mary to have her baby sit her son Barack and confide in her about her future plans. Mary strains to remember the days back over forty five years ago and relates that she did not know why Anna was in Seattle but remembers she was ³anxious to get back to her husband². ³She told me they would be going to Kenya when she finished her education which she had promised her parents when she had married, but because her husband had an obligation to his tribe she realized he would have to take another wife that was a full blooded Kenyan². Mary commented that ³I don¹t think I could have been that brave.²
Mary explained most of the people in the apartment house were Seniors and were retired so it was most likely she was the only one in the house able to baby sit Barack. Mary was a stay at home mother while her husband was taking classes at the nearby Seattle University. She lived directly below Anna and Barack in the level she calls the basement. She remembers the windows in their basement apartment being at chin level and she had a great view of the yard and trees. One day she recalls with laughter, a squirrel had fallen through the one of the ground level windows and after quickly scampering up its tree scolded the family for a good hour.
Mary goes on to relate after we sent her a 1937 photo of the apartment from Washington State Archives, the apartment Anna and Barack lived in was the on the first main floor and the windows looked out over the street. Anna and baby Barack¹s apartment in the photo were the three paned windows on the far right corner of the building above the garage. The main floor had been divided into four studio apartments about 500 square feet each- indeed, a tiny apartment compared to the White House. The first house of Barack Obama no longer exists having been torn down in 1985. An apartment complex now is on the block along with twin residential towers ³Capitol Park² owned by Seattle Housing Authority.
Mary also laughs when asked for pictures saying ³We were in survival mode and not taking pictures². Mary remembers Anna as ³very mature who never complained and met her obligations². Anna was taking night classes at the University of Washington and according to the University of Washington¹s registrar¹s office her major was listed as History. She was enrolled at the University of Washington in the fall of 1961, took a full course load in the Spring of 1962 and had her transcript transferred to the University of Hawaii in the Fall of 1962.
Along with the Seattle Polk Directory, Marc Leavipp of the University of Washington Registrar¹s office confirms 516 13th Ave. E. was the address Ann Dunham had given upon registering at the University. Today, when one looks back to the small apartment in 1962 in which a kind neighbor helped care for our nation¹s leader and a struggling mother strived to get an education, its inspiring to know that even small gestures in the most difficult of situations can help a baby rise from humble beginnings to achieve greatness.
Ann Dunham later received a Ph.D. in Anthropology from the Univ. of Hawaii.
Mary Toutonghi now lives in Soldatna Alaska and was 2001 President of the Alaska Speech-Language-Hearing Association.
And one little baby grew up to achieve the audacity of hope.
Permission to copy this article is granted provided full context is posted and credited to authors.
Mary Toutonghi photo courtesy of Mary Toutonghi and Jenny Neyman.
House photo was provided by: Washington State Archives, Puget Sound Branch, King County Assessor Property Record Card collection photograph (1937).
1. Barack Obama: from Capitol Hill to Capitol Hill by Charlette LeFevre, www.capitolhilltimes.com
2. Obama baby sitter awaits new era Soldotna woman eager for former charge¹s reign By Jenny Neyman, Redoubt Reporter, Soldotna AK, 1/20/09
11,068 posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 9:11:42 PM by Fred Nerks (E)
To: Fred Nerks; Greenperson; WildHighlander; LucyT; Fantasywriter; rxsid; edge919; Fractal Trader; ...
Greenperson noticed it, the kenyan never claimed Stanley Ann Dunham was his wife nor did he name zero as his son.
That statement is not correct as to Ann (S.) Dunham Obama, the person he named at least two times in the FOIA docs as his his wife, (who can ONLY be the former Stanley Ann Dunham by all evidence), IN HIS OWN HAND:
1. Page 35 signed August 31, 1961 he names as his wife in his handwriting Ann S. Dunham, Honolulu Hawaii after crossing out a different wife name that appears to begin with a K (almost certainly Kezia). In the notes to the interview on that date William F. Wood II records an acknowledgment of Barack Hussein Obama II as the name of the baby and that the baby and mother are living with her parents.
2. Page 14 signed April 21, 1964 BHO Sr. writes Ann Obama c/o Univ. of Hawaii in his own hand. There is only ONE such person on record at U of Hawaii. The notes in the hand of the INS official add Legal Separation, USC 2 MOS. AGO, Barack Obama 2nd, 2 yrs. USC doubtless obtained from BHO Sr. himself in an interview on that date. That timing of legal separation matches the divorce court proceedings in HI. Sr. was actually divorced as of April 21, but apparently lied to the INS interviewer.
Verbal representations of BHO Sr. recorded by INS officials in notes to the file and in entries made by officials needed to complete blocks on forms needed for administrative adjudication are just as conclusive for the legal record as entries on the forms in the hand of BHO Sr., IMO.
11,144 posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 10:46:23 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: All; Fred Nerks
Per Fred Nerks:
By the time you authenticate every document you have ever seen and every entry in directories, and accepted every statement made by classmates who have been entrapped by their lies, you might as well go back to quoting straight from Dreams because thats what you are doing, whether you realize it or not.
Link please to any time I have quoted Dreams other than to denounce co-author Bill Ayers or to point out inconsistencies or misquotes.
I scrupulously avoid using Dreams as an original or secondary source. You, on the other hand, have frequently quoted from Dreams. You are especially fond of the passages about Stanley Ann being an alleged au pair in Chicago and Auma recounting things Mamma Sarah supposedly said about some of Barrys half-brothers.
You also used Barrys Dreams account as your original source (via another author who used Dreams as her source) for your claim to know that Barry travelled alone to HI.
I challenged you on how you knew that and it came back to Barry himself.
11,273 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 12:59:51 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: All; Fred Nerks; WildHighlander57; Fantasywriter
Per Fred Nerks:
However, you do have one little problem in your posting history - in which you maintain he was the son of Frank Marshall Davis because the high school girl had the hots for an ugly old black older than her own father, and the KGB financed her trip to give birth in Kenya.
I do not maintain he was the son of Frank Marshall Davis. I suggested that as one of several possibilities. I favor BHO Sr. as the sperm donor because Baby David Obama looks very much like Baby Barry.
The SADO in Seattle narrative combined with the INS FOIA documents destroys not only the delusional Mal-Val narrative, but POTUS Barrys Dreams narrative. SADO in Seatle is the ANTI-Dreams narrative, which should be apparent to all FReepers who are paying attention.
11,279 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 1:08:11 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: WildHighlander57; Fred Nerks
IMO it is totally consistent for Stanley Ann to appear in both the HI 1961-62 Polk Directory and the WA 1961-62 Polk directory. She was in HI in 1961 and in WA in late 1961 and early 1962. Absolutely no inconsistency with Polk.
The Polk Directories published names and addresses of persons in a given locality retrospectively during 1961-62. Stanley Ann meets that criteria for both HI and WA.
Her UW transcript corroborates her Anna Obama WA Polk address and Polk places her living at the same address with her parents.
See WND article and images:
If Corsi or the Seattle newspapers thought there was anything funky about Anna Obama in the 1961-62 Polk being Stanley Ann they would have said so, IMO.
11,261 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 12:06:13 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: GregNH; David; LucyT; WildHighlander; Cold Case Posse Supporter; Fantasywriter; philman_36; ...
The other thing to consider is that David has shown that the UoWA transcripts are fake.
There is NO evidence that the U of WA transcripts are fake, but there is evidence that some folks dont know how to assess them and false claims of forgery have been made through inept reading of the WA transcript or intentional deception.
The INS FOIA Wood memo recording what BHO Sr. told Wood on 8/31/61 confirms Stanley Anns intent to go to a university in WA in the fall.
The following are cross-corroborations between the U of HI transcripts and U of WA final transcript notations:
1. The U of HI transcripts pick up Stanley Anns credits at the U of WA in the fall of 1961 and spring of 1962 and use them towards her BA degree.
2. The U of WA transcripts pick up Stanley Anns MA degree work at U of HI.
IMO the claims that the U of WA is forged were based on illogical observations that it didnt look right for a 1961 transcript, but the final transcript put up by WND was NOT a 1961 transcript but a partially automated, partially typed 1970s version in its final form which has also been corroborated by a verifiable image of the fully computerized version on the U of WA system which is available through FOIA today and also published by WND, IIRC.
All of the cross-corroborating, verifiable (could be produced in court) documents would have to be forged for the claim of forgery of the U of WA transcript to be true.
FReepers still in doubt might ask themselves why Stanley Anns attendance in WA would be forged by anyone when it DESTROYS Barrys DREAMS narrative and proved that his parents NEVER lived together EVER when combined with the INS FOIA docs. That is extremely damaging to Barrys falsely constructed persona.
11,315 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 12:17:23 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: Fred Nerks; WildHighlander57; LucyT; Fractal Trader; Flotsam_Jetsome; Cold Case Posse Supporter; ...
Maraniss definitively states that [Dunham] and Obama and the infant never lived [at 6085 Kalanianole]. There was no room. The senior Dunhams shared the house with the Pratt family. The Pratt daughter has no memory of the Dunhams daughter bringing an infant home.
I agree that there is NO evidence that after giving birth Stanley Ann and Barry set foot in Hawaii prior to the fall of 1962 when she returned from spending a year at U of WA. There is NO evidence that BHO Sr. and Ann ever lived together before or after Barry was born, so the foregoing is totally consistent with the Maraniss account. Maraniss is debunking the happy little family for two years in HI myth of Dreams.
The 8/31/61 Wood memo records BHO Sr. CLAIMING that his wife (that he named as Ann S. Dunham) was living with her parents. At the time witnesses place Stanley Ann and Barry in Seattle. This INS FOIA document is verifiable evidence of what BHO Sr. CLAIMED, and not what ACTUALLY happened.
Maraniss does NOT dispute that Stanley Ann lived at that address with her parents prior to the marriage reported to INS as being on Feb 2, 1961. Maraniss only disputes that BHO Sr, Ann and Barry ever lived together with her parents.
If Stanley Ann went to Kenya to have the baby between February and August, and then went to Seattle without returning to Hawaii, the Pratt daughter would never remember the Dunham daughter bringing a baby home consistent with what Maraniss states. That could be very telling.
Note also that Maraniss doesnt say that the Pratt daughter doesnt REMEMBER the Dunham daughter, but only that she doesnt remember the daughter bringing a baby home.
Note also that the Pratt daughter doesnt apparently remember the Dunham daughter being PREGNANT!!! The U of HI officials reported to INS (page 39 dated 4/21/61) that BHO Sr. had married Stanley Ann DUNHAM. Where was she between Feb 2 and late August? That is the question.
11,364 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 9:22:08 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: Fred Nerks; WildHighlander57; LucyT
WHAT IF THE TWO LITTLE BOYS HAD THEIR PHOTO TAKEN IN BOSTON?
That picture BHO Sr. and Ruth Baker Obamas two mixed race boys, David, about age 3 (the one that looks much like but different from Barry) and Mark, about age 5, taken circa 1970 actually COULD have been taken in Boston if Ruth took them to visit her parents.
This picture has been corroborated as being of Mark and David by Mark and Malik and can doubtless be verified in court to be so if it ever came to that.
Only the delusional Mal-Val narrative contends that the boy on the left (David) is baby POTUS Barry and the boy on the right (Mark) was a hidden son of BHO Sr. by the missing wife in the Philippines also named BHO II at birth but stripped of that name and becoming Roman Obama.
The resemblance of baby David to baby POTUS Barry is excellent circumstantial confirming evidence that they are half-brothers with the same father, BHO Sr.
11,378 posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 11:20:17 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: Fantasywriter; LucyT; WildHighlander
Watching a certain troll at work putting out tasty fake insinuations and shell game baby pictures intended to seduce sincere newbie FReepers into a delusional cult is like watching a pedophile grooming unsuspecting kids on the playground. Pretty disgusting, IMO.
11,405 posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 6:05:53 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: chicken head
You need to wash your mouth out with soap, you just called David Barry. Might that be because they are so hard to tell apart? Has it penetrated that they are one and the same child?
11,416 posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 7:09:23 PM by Fred Nerks (Come visit Tasmania!)
Take it or leave it. You know my motto. I REPORT YOU DECIDE.
The two sets of images exist, they are the same children. Youve really had enough attention from me, I value my time.
11,402 posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 5:56:52 PM by Fred Nerks (Come visit Tasmania!)
To: All; Fred Nerks; WildHighlander57; LucyT; Fantasywriter
Hey, bring that yearbook back!
Fred Nerks Mal-Val Narrative posits that Stanley Ann did not spend her senior year at Mercer HS but was somewhere else. So this tantalizing tidbit questioning whether Ann in in the Mercer yearbook as a senior is being offered by FN to pique the curiosity of the uninformed and unwary. Stanley Ann was never in HI until 1963, according to Mal-Val. Of course, this claim is delusional!
I dont know who FN thinks would still be on this thread that would fall for this nonsense.
11,456 posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 11:21:11 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
Youre right, and I have always maintained it would take a TEAM who were devoted to the research, our group tried to achieve something like that, but working on the web through nothing more than the facility of correspondence and the compilation of a dossier (which we have located on a private site not in the US) and this is the source of much of what I write. There were nine, sometimes up to 12 of us who collected information, read articles, hunted down sources. And none of us did it for a reward or any other reason than looking for kernels of truth in the maze of lies.
That we reached conclusions that are not mainstream as a result, isnt surprising. Is it?
Has anyone else made any sense of the millions of lies it took to create the myth, and to cover over the cracks that appeared later?
11,515 posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:26:53 PM by Fred Nerks (Come visit Tasmania!)
To: All; Fred Nerks; Fantasywriter; WildHighlander57; LucyT
OR THE U OF WA RECORDS? (Which may NOT have come from the U of WA at all, as there was no provenance with the e-mailed document.
If you go to pages 198 and 200 of Corsis book Wheres The Birth Certificate you will find that the UW transmittal letter and computer transcript was sent by snail mail by Madolyne Lawson of Office of Public Records.
The computer transcript enclosed in the letter matches the image of the transcript card on page 199 of the book.
The verifiable provenance of the letter and transcript can be proved because of the reference by Madolyne Lawson in her transmittal letter to Corsi to the Public Records request #09-11716 in which you requested a copy of Stanley Ann Dunhams records.
This letter of July 29, 2009 includes 8 credits from UH that were accepted as transfer credit which exactly match the 4 credits for Russian and 4 for Philosophy shown on the UW transcript card image on page 199. The transcript card has the address she shared with Mary Toutonghi.
This UW letter cross-corroborates the UH e-mail from Stuart Lao on page 196 and the provenance of that e-mail has been proved over and over by individuals requesting Stanley Anns transcript record from UH, IIRC.
This is verifiable proof that Stanley Ann was at UW
11,537 posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:16:23 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: All; Fred Nerks; Brown Deer; WildHighlander; Fantasywriter; LucyT
He wasnt claimed by Lolo and Stanley Ann on their joint return for 1973, but Maya says he didnt live with Madelyn and Stanley Armour in their apartment until her mother returned to Indonesia in 1976.
Maya was a very small child in 1973 and her memory of who was living with whom and the memories of aging Alice Dewey 50 years after the fact as filtered by a newspaper reporter are interesting but would be unreliable hearsay in court for sound reasons, IMO.
11,578 posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:17:56 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
Anyone can post almost anything on Wikipedia, whether its true, or not.
True, but Wiki has sources and the two sources for the claims are given and I have seen them elsewhere.
When assessing claims regarding records I always ask Is the claim verifiable? Is there a custodian of the document that can be subpoenaed and if they were would their testimony meet the Federal Rules of Evidence (FRE)?
In this case, the answer is yes for both Stanley Anns record in the HI transcript archive and for the Anthropology Dept. archive.
11,598 posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 5:36:36 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: All; Brown Deer; David; WildHighlander57; Fantasywriter; LucyT
Per Brown Deer:
Sorry, I like David, cannot give you a link to any of my personal communications with him. Are you really that ignorant?
As luck would have it Jerome Corsi was on with Mark Gillar this week promoting his new book and although he says the forged BC issue is politically a dead horse, Corsi stands behind all of his published investigations on Barrys origins and Corsi says that he believes Barry will ultimately be found to have been born in Kenya.
Of course, included in Corsis prior published investigations is the finding that Stanley Ann Dunham IS Barrys mom and that her UW transcrips are accurate so she was at UW during the 1961-62 school year.
Audio: Dr. Jerome Corsi; Obama Identity Document Fraud Issue Politically A Dead Horse
11,667 posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 8:26:28 PM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
To: Fred Nerks
Neither Kiri Tith nor any of the people who offered copies of their letters to a segment headed REMINISCENSES on the CAMBODIANA website remembered any woman associated with the kenyan student.
But, according to Maraniss, Tith remembers Ann Dunham at UH at the same time as BHO Sr.!
11,679 posted on Saturday, April 20, 2013 12:59:31 AM by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from “runway kill zone” mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
LOL! You found Nadia!
from the author, Pauls, son of Ruta and Joseph:
23 August 2012|Pauls Toutonghi
The Father of Heliopolis
9 Sencu Iela
On the night of August 3, 1944in the hot crickety darkness of Riga, Latviamy grandparents did two remarkable things.
The Chevy Salesman, Proud and Stressed Out
Pauls Toutonghi, who teaches English at Lewis and Clark College
This property assessment photo from 1937 shows the Capitol Hill apartment where a young Barack Obama would live with his mother in 1961. The state archives has a 1930s photo of nearly every building in King County, and can make copies of the photos for about $20. People who visit their archive branch at Bellevue Community College can get information on their house or scan the image themselves with a portable scanner.
Photo: Puget Sound Regional Branch Of The Washington State Archives
On Tuesday, supporters of President-elect Barack Obama looked forward to watching him take the oath of office with a sense of excitement, pride and hope for the future. Mary Toutonghi, of Soldotna, was prepared for that and another sensation: Remembrance of the 44th president as a 7-month-old baby.
Toutonghi was living in Seattle at the time, in the early 1960s. Her husband was going to school at Seattle University, and she was a stay-at-home mom with their 18-month-old daughter.
As her daughter was born in July, 1959, and was 18 months of age when Mary baby-sat the seven month old child of Anna Obama, obvioulsy, her husband had not graduated from Seattle University in August 1961, and the child she baby-sat was born in January.
To: Fractal Trader; LucyT; Fred Nerks
Joseph Toutonghi was born on April 2, 1932 in Cairo, Egypt and emigrated to the U.S. on the ship “Vulcania” on June 12, 1946. He married Mary Jean Zolin (the babysitter) on November 12, 1955 in Los Angeles. Their first daughter Mary Toutonghi was born and died on August 23, 1956 in Los Angeles. Gabrielle Marie was born on July 6, 1959. Michael Joseph (former Vice-President at Microsoft) was born on October 14, 1962. There were two more children before their divorce, and his second marriage to Ruta I. Mindenbergs of Latvia.
Mary Toutonghi “recalls as best she can the dates she babysat Barack as her daughter was 18 months old and was born in July of 1959...”
Do the math.
132 posted on 04/12/2011 5:45:17 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
To: Brown Deer
thanks, really, one should laugh, if it wasnt so sad. If that was Stanley Ann Dunham for whom Mary baby-sat in January 1961, Stanley Ann Dunham would still have been in High School when that child was conceived.
And who was it identified Anna Obama as Stanley Ann Dunham?
THE WOMAN WHO OPERATES SEATTLE MUSEUM OF THE MYSTERIES.
Now aint that a giggle? She also does GHOST TOURS and holds seances.
137 posted on 04/12/2011 6:41:46 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
To: Brown Deer
In all fairness to Joseph, I doubt if he had any idea of what was going on, he and Mary divorced in the seventies iirc. Heres something Joseph wrote in 2006:
Regardless of what misguided liberals and the Democrat Party thinks ours is a Christian Nation. From its founders to the present. I am an immigrant from a Moslem country and the main reason I am in this country since 1946 is that in the moderate Moslim country Im from there was no future unless you were Moslem. I dont think there is any good reason to change what we have done for hundreds of years in our country to accomodate a handful of immigrants Who demand we change our culture for their convenience. If they dont believe in the Bible that is fine neither does an atheist a Hindu or a criminal and so on . We should still demand that they take the oath on the Bible as that is meaningful to us. If they violate that oath they should suffer the consequences.
Comment by joseph toutonghi December 21, 2006 @ 10:36 pm
138 posted on 04/12/2011 6:46:29 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
To: Brown Deer; LucyT; All
Do the math.
Pushing baby Barack’s birth back to January 1961 might be consistent with Mary Toutonghi’s account, but it’s inconsistent with Stanley Ann Dunham’s college transcripts, which have her enrolling in the U. Of Washington in August 1961. The only way to explain the discrepency would be to accept that Stanley Ann was not Baby Barack’s mother. But then why would 17 year-old Stanley Ann be taking responsibility for another woman’s baby while attending college at the U. of Washington? Highly unlikely, IMHO.
189 posted on 04/13/2011 12:46:43 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
Why did Gabrielle attend Clovis High School in New Mexico, where her stepmother Ruta was living?
You are naughty but I like it...
What a little simpleton she is, did you know her nickname on her Amazon Page used to be ATOOT until she removed it? And is it any wonder that when we saw that, it seemed a simple conclusion to reach TOOT=TOUT=TOUTONGHI? That maybe the woman the man in the village in Kenya meant when he said the kenyan student had gone to the US, was working for an oil company and had married a woman named ANNA TOOT, we thought maybe ANNA was one of their family?
Oil Company? The eldest daughter Mary Agnes who arrived in the US two years before the bulk of the family, had married Oskar Van Beveren, a geologist for Standard Oil for 30 years. They married in Heliopolis in Egypt and lived in Hollywood.
(Where Mary attended school with the children of Bob Hope, remember?)
Can’t think of a better reason why ANNA would be living at that Seattle address, can you?
Make it more interesting...when Ruta and Joseph married and moved to Clovis, they sold real estate and used the name TOUT in advertismens.
TOOT=TOUT=TOUTONGHI. There might always have been something very odd about that entire Seattle fiasco.
btw, Annette the actress is bound to know another one of the characters in this saga. Hal Siddiqi, remember him? Last known, he’s working at a Seattle Theatre.
To help his old friend, Obama gave Siddiqi a job reference. Siddiqi is a recovering drug addict and now works for a community theater in Seattle. Siddiqi is a strong Obama supporter. On his phone message he says, “My name is Hal Siddiqi, and I approve of this message. Vote for peace, vote for hope, vote for change and vote for Obama.”
THE FIFTH AVENUE THEATRE STAFF
Elizabeth Archambault, Tom Barnes, Stephen Braden, Stephen de Tasnady, Bruce Gelman, Raymond Lawrence, Gina Panzeca, Frances Rice, Janet Seier, Hal Siddiqi, Star Zatine
The only way to explain the discrepency would be to accept that Stanley Ann was not Baby Baracks mother. But then why would 17 year-old Stanley Ann be taking responsibility for another womans baby while attending college at the U. of Washington? Highly unlikely, IMHO.
The reason I didn't reply might have been because it was so patently obvious that the girl Mary baby-sat for could not have been Stanley Ann Dunham, so there was no question of her being at the university at the same time as she was caring for a child.
While Mary was babysitting a seven month old child for ANNA OBAMA in August 1961, Stanley Ann Dunham was showing a newborn to Susan Blake, and telling her she was flying out to Boston that very same day.
Makes me wonder, just how would Solomon the Wise have worked that one out? Might he have also decided that Stanley Ann Dunham wasn't anyone's mother - and that's why Susan Blake had to change the dirty diaper?
As the kenyan student wasn't in Boston until almost a year later, what we needed to ask was - just to whom was Stanley Ann delivering that child in Boston?
"The dean, who was aware that Malcolm was a controversial celebrity, told him to meet with the Vice President, Professor Fuad Sarruf, yet another Lebanese Christian. The Vice President said he would speak to the American President of the University. The answer from the President came back very quickly: since the University was on American soil, Malcolm, who was deemed an enemy of America, could not speak on campus."
By Joseph P. Fried
Delays in Release Of Shabazz Grandson It was another tragedy in a family whose first tragedy resounded around the world. In June 1997, Malcolm Shabazz, the 12-year-old grandson of Malcolm X, set a fire that killed his grandmother, Dr. Betty Shabazz, in her Yonkers apartment. The police said the boy, who had psychiatric problems, had apparently been angry because he did not want to live with his grandmother after having had problems living with his mother, Qubilah Shabazz. Ms. Shabazz, ...
June 24, 2001, Sunday .Longer Term Ordered for Malcolm Shabazz
Malcolm Shabazz, the grandson of Malcolm X who set the 1997 fire that killed his grandmother, will spend at least another year in detention — at a more secure institution — because of his recent escapes, a Family Court judge ruled today. ‘’Malcolm’s got a long way to go to convincing all of us that no restrictions at all is appropriate,’’ said the Westchester County Attorney, Alan D. Scheinkman, whose office prosecutes youthful offenders.
August 04, 1999, Wednesday .Malcolm Shabazz Flees Detention
By JANE GROSS
Malcolm Shabazz, who set a fire two years ago that killed his grandmother, the widow of Malcolm X, escaped yesterday from a juvenile detention center in Valhalla, N.Y., further complicating efforts by Westchester County officials to find an institution to treat the troubled 14-year-old. He had been sent to the detention center after fleeing several times from a low-security juvenile institution in Yonkers, and will be charged in Family Court for the latest escape, said Alan D. Scheinkman, th...
July 29, 1999, Thursday .Boy Who Killed Shabazz Has Made Two Escapes
Malcolm Shabazz, who set the fire that killed his grandmother, Malcolm X’s widow, has escaped twice from the Yonkers treatment center where he has been living since February, the police said. Malcolm, now 14, was 12 when he was convicted in 1997 of the juvenile equivalents of manslaughter and arson for setting the blaze in Betty Shabazz’s Yonkers apartment. She died of burns three weeks after the fire.
July 08, 1999, Thursday .Lawyers for Malcolm Shabazz Say He Thrives in Treatment
By JANE GROSS
Twelve-year-old Malcolm Shabazz has grown two inches, learned to play the drums and been elected secretary of his class in his first month of confinement at the Hillcrest Center, a threadbare, turn-of-the-century mansion here that is home to about 60 boys and girls with severe behavioral disorders. The child, who set a fire last June that killed his grandmother, beamed today as he described his accomplishments to Percy E. Sutton and David N. Dinkins, the two semi-retired lawyers who represe...
September 27, 1997, Saturday .Malcolm Shabazz Moved To Center to Serve Term
Malcolm Shabazz, 12, who set the fire that killed his grandmother, Dr. Betty Shabazz, has begun serving his 18-month sentence at a Massachusetts home that specializes in young arsonists. Malcolm was transferred on Sunday from Westchester County’s juvenile detention center in Valhalla to the Lenox, Mass., campus of the Hillcrest Educational Centers, a prosecutor, Barbara Kukowski, said yesterday.
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