Skip to comments.Re:"Mal and Val - not Ann and the Old Man" Any evidence Valerie Sarruf is Obama's mom? (vanity)
Posted on 08/01/2012 11:18:33 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
"Meet The Parents....of alias Barack Obama. Black Sunni Muslim father and White Lebanese Christian mother. Born in the ME, raised in Indonesia, became BHO II in 1982." Dr. Ron J. Polland
The Mal-Val youtube video at the link was posted by FReeper Polarik (Dr. Ron Polland) in August of 2011 and while morphing the image of a woman named Val into an image of Obama, he insinuates that Val is Obamas mom. One year later this youtube has only 1,150 views.
In July 2012, two FReepers associated the woman, Val, in Polariks Youtube with Lebanese actress Valerie Sarruf and have posted multiple images of her at various ages on FR eligibility threads. I am opening this thread to invite discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf is Barack Obamas mother, with or without Malcolm X being his father.
Where could Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf have been in 1960 when baby Barry would have been conceived? Is there any evidence that Sarruf could have been pregnant and delivered a baby in 1961? In what country could the baby have been delivered? How and when could the alleged Mal-Val baby have been inserted into the identity and life narrative of the person we have come to know as Barack Hussein Obama?
Full disclosure: I refute categorically all of the Mal-Val narrative as wildly speculative and unsupported by any evidence that I have seen so far.
For several years now a shadowy coterie of FReepers styling themselves as researchers has gone onto nearly every FR eligibility thread to aggressively refute all evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was Barack Obamas mother. They have actually declared flat out that she was never in Hawaii before 1963, contrary to the voluminous evidence including INS FOIA documents!
Requests for links or any evidence that Stanley Ann is NOT the mom have been frequently met with abusive ad hominem attacks and accompanied by claims that ALL documentary evidence showing her to have been in Hawaii in 1960 and 1961 is forged, but no credible evidence of forgery has offered. I make this observation as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner and CPA.
For years the researchers had claimed mysteriously to have conclusive evidence that a different woman is Barrys mom, but refused to reveal her name or any evidence other than her picture because the researchers claimed it would disappear from the net and/or from hard copy archives of the records. But this month, the researchers appear to have slipped up and revealed that Valerie Sarruf has been the woman whose identity they have been protecting. They have since attempted to walk back the revelation, but it is clear, IMO.
The researchers claim that they earnestly want to remove Obama from office. But wouldnt revealing ALL EVIDENCE of a foreign mother and foreign birth (which they also claim) be the most logical approach to removing Obama rather than hiding the identity of this alternative mother for years while attacking FR threads that sincerely attempt to find out where Stanley Ann Dunham was when she gave birth to Barry?
In my opinion, the best evidence that Valerie Sarruf is NOT Barrys mother is the mountain of evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham IS his mother, which the researchers have totally failed to refute.
Again, please use this thread for discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf IS Barack Obamas mother with or without Malcolm X being his father.
It's really simple.
His sister apparently paid for his first trip to the middle east, the one that most biographies ignore, on which he was accompanied by the associate of Frank Marshall Davis, Richard Wright.
Richard Wright also appears to have accompanied MX to the Bandung Conference in Indonesia in 1955. Another journey that all but a few sites totally ignore.
It’s doubtful his sister paid for the trip to Egypt and Saudi Arabia in 1964, when he converted to sunni islam. He was away from the US for 18 weeks and while studying at the al Azhar university/mosque in Cairo, he was the guest of the Saudis.
from an Indonesian website. No link.
So, no matter how often our resident retired certified document examiner continues to insist that article has to be one huge mistake, there it is. It does raise the question, just when did zero go to Indonesia? If it was before Stanley Ann Dunham married Lolo in 1965, there's another can of worms.
Pity that the kindergarten records in Hawaii have been 'lost'.
So apart from his sister, it looks as though foreign money paid for his travels, then.
“So, no matter how often our resident retired certified document examiner continues to insist that article has to be one huge mistake, there it is.”
Could be a typo in the article of age 2 instead of age 5...
I’m pinging the small list as there is a lot of new info posted. I am going to post shortly a sort of quick and dirty very abbreviated summary of the general picture of what is known about Zero (or known NOT to be true) and hopefully those who know more will correct me.
This comment is very interesting as Zero is quoted as saying he went to Indonesia at age 2. Of coure with news articles it is never know how much is fact and how much is fiction. But if he went that early, it was definitely before his purported mother Stanley Ann was married to Lolo Soetoro. So who did he stay with? There are photos of a very young Zero and a rather well to do looking Indonesian family, not a Stanley Ann in sight. In fact, a rather touching photo of Zero who looks about 4 or at most 5 years old leaning on an elderly Indonesian grandmother.
Were they the Soebarkah family?
And maybe his Noelani kindergarten records are missing - because there never were any!
Here is my feeble quick and dirty summary (Part One), leaving many things out.
For starters, his date of birth is unknown, his place of birth is unknown, and his birth parents are unknown. The mythical life created by Bill Ayrers is a made up backstory to give this unknown entity a “life” that would enable him to become president. How do we know his so-called life is fake?
Well, for one thing all his documents are forged; the few that have been (sort of) made available. Almost all documents from his life are scrubbed, hidden, unavailable. Why would someone have all forged documents if the info on them was accurate? Hint: they would not. People need fake IDs because the real identity would be incriminating. If only some of the info on the forged documents had to be “fixed” such as place of birth, or father (for instance), such bits could easily have been changed without having to create an entire phony document.
Now, so much research has been done about this topic - for years - I can only present a few things that come to my mind as being clues or keys to seeing the real picture take a little shape in the mists or fogs of lies.
His purported mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, was not in Hawaii at the time frame claimed, no evidence for her presence there until Zero was around two and a half years old. Oddly enough, she doesn’t appear to have been in Mercer Island for what would have been her senior year of high school, either. All yearbooks were removed, the few photos that were made public oddly enough didn’t have the whole page showing, some look photoshopped, etc. And many people who knew her then were told to say nothing. There is a veil of silence. It looks as though she may have been in Chicago with the uncle Charles Payne. Doing what?
She appears with a new baby in Seattle, driving a car (supposedly), and the baby appears to be 3 weeks old but she doesn’t know how to change diapers. Why is that? Probably because she was just given the child to take care of. Any mother would know after a few weeks how to diaper a baby. She’s off to Boston supposedly to see her “husband” Barack Hussein Obamba, but he was actually still in Hawaii at that time - for another year.
IIRC, Malcolm X lived in Boston at that time.
Keep in mind there are no photos of SAD with a child Zero until he’s about 2 1/2 to 3, in Hawaii.
Where was Zero living between the Susan Blake visit and the HI photos? And who was he living with?
It looks as though the Kenyan 0bama was chosen to be the official father since he was black and was willing to play the part (a bit part indeed), and since he liked to live large, there was probably some remuneration (just my hunch). SAD was chosen to play the mother since babies need a mother type person to care for them, and he needed one white parent since he was rather light colored.
And since there was a web of communists and black racists in Hawaii and Chicago as well as of course other places, various paths crossed and criscrossed. The number of people involved in this counterfeit is very large.
This is not a wingnut fantasy. By reading the long threads that started in 2008, it gradually became clear to even my less than stellar mental powers that the Kenyan could not possibly have been the father; the documentation did not support it, there was not one witness every putting him and SAD and the child in one place, or even any two of them. None. no common address, no photo, no witnesses, nothing. Plus Zero looks nothing like him at all.
Then it sunk in after one long thread (link upon request), that SAD was not the mother. The “Anna Obama” in Seattle was obvously someone else altogether. So, there was a child originally named Barack Hussein Obama, the son of BHO from Kenya, and a woman named Anna.
But that child is not the man in the White House.
Just take it as a given. You don't know where he came from and you don't know where he was much of the time.
But if you take into consideration his possible paternity, the fact that he ended up in Indonesia isn't surprising. The question remains, when did he go there and for how long?
Who was Soebarkah?
When it became clear that Stanley Ann Dunham told Susan Blake she was flying out to Boston on the same day, and it was Susan who rationalized she must have been going to join her 'husband' - because in August 1961, the kenyan student had no plans to attend Harvard and would NOT be leaving Hawaii until June 22, 1962...
...it was a natural question to ask; just who would she know in Boston, where she said she planned to find accommodation and work..????
Ella Collins. The wealthy sister of Malcolm. 72 Dale Street Roxbury.
Just by coincidence. Funds are currently being collected to turn the property into a monument.
Yes, it’s really odd how many people take “Dreams” as fact - as given - when even the book itself admits that people are composites and converstations are made up. And the lack of time line is absolutely another tactic to make it seem as though it’s an autobiography when it is not at all. It’s like stage props or stage scenery that can be moved around, flats painted with fake perspective, and so on.
Weren’t the Soebarkah family found at some point?
There is a very prominent family by that name in Indonesia, one of them was a coffin-bearer at the funeral of Suharto. The family name is written both as Soebarkah and Subarkah, just as Soeharto became Suharto and Soetoro is sometimes seen as Sutoro.
Ah, now I remember. The photo had a couple of straight backed men in military uniforms, and ladies in traditional Indonesian dress.
Interesting to me is that passport document of SAD’s with the name “Soerbarkah” crossed out - in connection with Zero being taken off her passport, wasn’t it? When he was around 10? It’s a pretty big clue that there was something going on in Indonesia that wasn’t in “the Book” - mystery “Soebarkah” name, crossed off meaning taken off her passport (I think I got that right), right around when he left Indonesia. So I would gather that he had been living with the Soebarkah family and she had to collect him and take him back to Hawaii. I wonder what she had been doing in Indonesia then. Not that it matters particularly but it would be telling if she was doing something other than being a housewife with Lolo.
And the rest remains a mystery.
All the girls are on their knees....
Previously Unknown Obama Stepsister Dies
Bridgette is reporting a previously unknown stepsister of Barack Obama died unexpectedly on Februay 26, 2010.
The Indonesian obituaries also state Lia was born in 1957, and that she had three children with her husband, Edi Sobah, with whom she lived in West Java, Indonesia. The obituaries identified Lia as having been adopted by Lolo Soetoro, Obama’s stepfather, and Ann Dunham Obama Soetoro, Obama’s mother.
Internet researchers made the link between Obama and his stepsister, Holiyah “Lia” Soetoro Sobah, after translating from obituaries published in Indonesia.
The surfacing of Lia as an adopted child of Lolo Soetoro and Dunham raises the question of whether Barack Obama himself might have been adopted officially as Lolo Soetoro’s stepson while in Indonesia from 1967-1971.
Even though Obama makes no mention in “Dreams from My Father” of having had an Indonesian stepsister, the Indonesian obituaries make clear that Obama slept in the same room as his stepsister while the two of them grew up together in the Soetoro home in Jakarta. According to the Indonesian obituaries, Barry Soetoro and Lia Soetoro were always together, playing, traveling on family vacations and even bathing.
A photograph of Lia shows her holding a monkey doll and wearing clothes given her by Madelyn Dunham, Obama’s maternal grandmother, when Lia visited Hawaii for three months. The visit apparently was in 1971, the year Obama left Indonesia permanently.
Corsi says there is nothing on the public record to indicate that Obama sent any condolences, or even acknowledged the death of his stepsister.
The Obama mythology insists Obama was in Indonesia from ages 6 to 10, and left in 1971, but we know Obama attended third grade at the Noelani Primary School in 1969, and here’s the evidence:
Scott Inoue and the authographed image of Scott and Barry captioned by Scott's mother as 3rd grade, 1969.
Obama: Africa lessons; look ahead. En route back to U.S.
By Lynn Sweet on September 3, 2006 8:40 AM
‘...Obama’s next big international journey will be in 2007r—he’s looking at China, India and Indonesia, ``where ironicall I actually have more of a childhood than I do in Kenya.’’’
Cunning. He didn’t have a childhood in Kenya. The son of the kenyan student and Anna Obama did.
Note the handwritten Memo. Another wife in Cambridge?
It's not until you pick up the trail of Anna and Stanley Ann Dunham, that one can follow what's going on here; of course they would suspect he had a wife in Cambridge, he was telling his Harvard associates he visited his son, and now that we understand who the two little boys are, and that they must both have been with auntie Ella, it's no great mystery...it was just a hop and a skip and jump from Magazine Street to Dale Street.
Would the wife in Cambridge (if there really was one) have been Ruth? Isn’t that the right time frame?
Also interesting to finally know where the photo of the two boys was taken. Wondered about that. Now, THAT makes me wonder about that toddler in diapers photo of Zero next to a typical Hawaiian beach shack with a croton plant and outside sink. Obviously Hawaii, and in the HI photo he looks just a little younger than in this one, maybe 6 months, he’s in diapers. Looks as though as a very young child and baby he was dragged around to many places.
(Why on EARTH would women be attracted to him [Sr 0bama from Kenya]??? I know, I know, otherwise the human race would be extinct.)
Even though Zero might have been very tall for his age (although some other school photos don’t show him as unusually tall) I’m wondering about that photo of him with Scott. More evidence of much travel.
NO! The idea that he had a wife in Cambridge would have come about as the result of him telling his associates he VISITED HIS SON.
Ruth followed him to Kenya a short time after he left the US. They apparently married on Christmas Eve 1964.
There's no way of knowing where that photograph was taken, what we are attempting to do is follow what the people involved are telling us; when Stanley Ann Dunham told Susan Blake she was flying out to Boston that same day to find work and accommodation, it's a fair question to ask, who would she have known in Boston? The man she convinced Susan was her 'husband' would not be in Boston for almost another year, so she would hardly have chosen to go to Boston unless she knew someone there. Aside from the fact that she had a three week old child with her that obviously wasn't hers.
The kenyan student, once he was living at Magazine Street and attanding Boston, told his associates that he regularly visited his son. And those visits would hardly have been back to Hawaii, or even Seattle. But Auntie Ella living across the river in Roxbury, that makes sense.
As zero, the boy on the left of the image wasn't the son of the kenyan, and the dark boy of the right probably is, it's quite possible the two boys were somewhere together at the same time, or they wouldn't be seen sitting next to each other.
One is the son of the kenyan and the other isn't.
And I can't say NOW WE KNOW because that's just what it looks like. People need to be allowed to make up their own minds.
Okay, that’s pretty much what I remembered about Ruth. But I thought they might have been living together when he was in Boston or something.
Yes, I stand corrected. Right after I hit “post” I realized I don’t really “know”, it just looks as thought it could be likely. It also looks as though he had been to or spent some tme in HI before that photo with the dark boy was taken.
It’s doubtful they lived together, her parents were against her going to Kenya. You need to go through the immigration file before trying to reach any conclusions. Her name and the names of her parents are redacted but it’s quite apparent who they were.
Only Sally Jacobs who had the unredacted file for two years before she published her book, would know for certain. Sally changed the entire wiki entry on Ruth a few days before the book was released.
Any tropical location with a beach shack would do, it doesn't have to be Hawaii; although, as you have indicated, it looks familiar to someone who lived there. The child Susan saw was supposedly three weeks of age, the toddler image is one year + so maybe it's a snapshot of a holiday in Florida? I really have no idea.
Does it ever get warm enough in Boston to run around like that?
That baby is holding a hammer, definitely not Obama
Same place, same boy, same day - same toy.
Someone stuck fake plastic ears on all of them to make them look alike?
That toy was not in the previous picture, it wa a toy hammer or mallet... is a toy xylophone or something?
I never said it wasn’t the same kid.
I think the hammer is part of the toy tool-kit on wheels.
Seems to be some doubt about Nancy’s date of birth. nndb have c for circa “around”. They don’t usually say that. Even for Obamski they are more definite. Ha Ha.
Born: c. 1952
Birthplace: New York City
Race or Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Nationality: United States
Executive summary: Chancellor, Syracuse University
Husband: Steven R. Brechin (sociologist, one daughter, one son)
University: AB, Sarah Lawrence College (1974)
University: PhD Psychology, Stanford University (1978)
Professor: Princeton University (1978-83)
Professor: University of Michigan (1983-91)
Professor: Psychology, Princeton University (1991-96)
Administrator: Dean, Rackham School of Graduate Studies, University of Michigan (1996-)
Administrator: Provost and EVP Academic Affairs, University of Michigan (1997-2001)
Administrator: Trustee, Sarah Lawrence College (-2005)
Professor: Psychology, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (2001-04)
Administrator: Chancellor, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (2001-04)
Professor: Psychology and Women’s Studies, Syracuse University (2004-)
Administrator: Chancellor, Syracuse University (2004-)
American Academy of Arts and Sciences
American Council on Education Past Chairman
Hillary Clinton for President
National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine
Science Debate 2008
NNDB: Tracking the entire world
nndb.com Found on: Yahoo! Search
NNDB is an intelligence aggregator that tracks the activities of people
The Palm tree and the outdoor sink would indicate a place that doesn’t get below freezing.
That is also very close to where she was working in Newton MA. Her travel date was January 21, 1964.
Can anyone get a passenger list for flights from BOS to London on that day?
It is interesting that he was in Baltimore in August of 62. The female Kenyan student came to the US in Sept of 62. Not sure where she might of entered but DC is a possibility.
I just scanned 320 records. No one has a c circa against their date of birth, or in this case year of birth, except Nancy.
Where did you get her date of birth from?
Check out # # 1539 through 1542.
Thanks, Brown Deer.
From what we do know of Ruth, she says she met him about a month before he left Boston to return to Kenya, she followed him a few weeks later, and they married on Christmas Eve, 1964.
You can’t allow yourself the luxury of a little irony or sacrcasm - you also have to allow for those who have no sense of humour.
On page 12 there is a reference to age of 27 and Ruth would have been 27 at that time.
She could have been 27, I don’t know her birth year...do you? She was a teacher, not a student.
Right. Born in 37, aged 27 in 1964. The other girl was from Kenya and she was a student.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.