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Ryan is a good man, but does not redeem the abortionist/homosexualist statist Romney
Aug 11, 2012 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 08/11/2012 4:42:48 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

Except for his unfortunate go along to get along support of TARP, bailouts, stimulus spending and the increased credit limit, etc, Ryan is a pretty good choice. Probably the best choice of the RINOS that were on Romney's short list. I support Ryan for the vice presidency. Wish he were at the top of the ticket, though.

But I still cannot and will not support the grand father of ObamaCare. Romney still loves and brags about his bastard brainchild, RomneyCare, even today when he knows what an anti-liberty socialist POS it is.

And the fact that he advocated that abortion should be safe and legal in America for over three decades of his adult lifetime and even advocated that Roe v Wade should be supported and sustained as settled law precludes any consideration whatsoever by this pro-life Christian for Myth Romney for the presidency.

And the fact that he boasted that he would be better for "gay rights" than Ted Kennedy, and proved it just increases my resistance.

That, and his penchant for gun control, his continuing support for global warming, gays in the scouts, gays in the military, and his record of appointing liberal judges makes it all but impossible for me to support him.

Lastly, we're having a bit of changeover on our moderator staff. At least two moderators resigned this afternoon after I flatly refused to rein in a so-called anti-Mormon "bigot" on FR. Well, if being in opposition to false prophets and false prophecy makes a Christian believer a bigot, then I guess I'm a bigot. I've posted before that I flat do not believe that the Book of Mormon is the true word of God. Nor do I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. The Christian bible warns us to be weary of false prophets and that I am. Romney being the presumptive Republican nominee does not change that fact.

TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012veep; abortion; bugzapper; cookiezot; cult; elections; firstcookiezot; fr; freepered; fumr; gungrabber; homosexualagenda; inman; jimrobinson; kolob; ktlstriumphant; moralabsolutes; mormonism; opus; romney; ryan; ryanvp; tiredofcinos; vpryan; zot; zotbait
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To: bcsco

Exactly the same with me. God Bless You!

1,201 posted on 08/12/2012 6:18:11 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: reasonisfaith
The question I’m struggling with is: Does Romney have the heart of a true liberal or is he simply a wishy washy spoiled little rich boy who will be swayed by the crowd (and by his VP).

A few previous articles have cracked a window on this:

* Mitt Romney mirrors his Mormon church [Lds writer says Romney flip-flops 'cause Lds church has/does]
Who is Mitt Romney? [Ex-Lds author reveals why Mitt's wishy-washy culture waffles & flip-flops]

In the first linked article above, Mormon Neal Chandler highlights how in the 19th century...
* Mormons forced communism upon its people -- and then not (United Order)
* Adhered to theocracies under its first two "prophets" -- and then slowly drew back
* Encourage its Utah Territory voters to be Democrats -- and then told whole groups of people wholesale to "balance it out" as Republicans as statehood approached
* Excluded blacks -- and then late in the 20th century not
* Said polygamy was a condition of the highest degree of glory -- and then not (and that was after polygamy was condemned as an "abomination" in the 1830 Book of Mormon and monogamy fully embraced in the 1831 and 1832 Lds "scripture" Doctrine & Covenants...all as Joseph Smith supposedly had polygamy "secretly" revealed to him to start it up in 1831!

We can see from these historical examples how the Mormon "god" loves to change his mind on a whim!

From the second article linked above: What makes Mitt the kind of person he is — ruthlessly opportunistic, dishonest, insincere, willing to say anything for advantage, lacking in conscience, preoccupied with appearance, etc., on the one hand, yet squeaky clean, family-oriented, disciplined, boring, and predictable, on the other? My new e-book, A Mormon Story, sheds light on the culture that produced Mitt Romney.

Good question. (It's one I've raised -- and answered numerous times on various FR threads)

The answer, says this ex-Mormon in the book referenced above is: (From the article): The book reveals a value system that ultimately has no absolutes, other than the need to conform to deep-seated, highly-controlling authoritarianism that pervades LDS culture. That culture emphasizes a Mormon tradition known as "eternal progression" — undoctrinal spiritual evolution in which even God is changing. It also emphasizes the notion that the latest words of governing church leaders trump the Word of God found in the scriptures (including LDS scripture).

IOW, EVERYTHING in Mormonism -- from its theology to its social practices -- is up for potential change at the whim of the Mormon god. Bottom-line: There is no bottom-line in Mormonism! There is no bedrock doctrine that cannot be replaced!

There isn't even an Ultimate god in Mormonism...Nobody knows who the gods are that were part of the council which appointed the god of this world -- a former man, say Mormons.

So there's not even any Ultimate Authority in Mormonism!

1,202 posted on 08/12/2012 6:21:50 AM PDT by Colofornian (Why don't you 'birthers' ask Mitt about his 'spirit-birth' on planet near Kolob? Hypocrisy @ work?)
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To: reasonisfaith

Mitt may never have had much reason to truly care about issues of social morality that most religions of the civilized world care about, at least on paper (even the LDS cares about it on paper — but they are toothless it seems when it comes to reining Mitt in). He does seem to have carried on decently enough in his own love life. One wife, Ann Romney, whom he still loves, and even though his sons may be fairly criticized for shying away from military service they are not noted as being crooks or libertines.

We truly can’t know from the evidence at hand. Mitt is a sinner badly in need of salvation. However Mitt does appear open to being influenced in a way that Barack never would be. A waffler may waffle in the right direction. A demonic doctrinaire, never.

A larger issue for the future is how can the less-liberal body politic be unfrozen from its apathy with respect to primaries. People complain about elections never offering good choices; well that’s mostly because they only think general elections. The same complainers will by a proportion of 9-1 not get off their duffs in a primary. Mitt became prominent in the lack of competition from Sarah Palin. When Sarah Palin did not run, the body politic said meh. And We Got Mitt. Better strategeries (pace GWB) are needed.

1,203 posted on 08/12/2012 6:23:28 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
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To: DouglasKC
Conservatives have the ability to make Romney a one term President just as much as the Rat Party. I'd like to think that there are a few Repubs in Congress that will tell him the same. I'm willing to give him my vote at least once, ABO.
1,204 posted on 08/12/2012 6:24:50 AM PDT by DAC21
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To: Colofornian

That’s kind of what you would expect out of a religious organization without any actual divine leadership. It evolves, fitfully and directionlessly. If social mores around it progress, so will it. If social mores regress, so will it.

1,205 posted on 08/12/2012 6:26:57 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
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Comment #1,206 Removed by Moderator

To: novemberslady
Romney could be a great man with God's help. I believe that.

(Doncha think he has to do something first about that "I'm-a-god" complex???? I mean, per Mormon doctrine, he's already a god-man... (see below for documentation)

Marion G. Romney -- cousin of Mitt's father -- and in the Lds 'first presidency' at one time

“The truth is … man is a child of God— a God in embryo.” – Mitt Romney's father's cousin, Marion G. Romney – one of the top three Lds hierarchists a generation Conference Report, April 1973, p. 136; or Ensign, July 1973, p. 14).

3rd LDS 'prophet' John Taylor

* "What is [man]? He had his being in the eternal worlds; he existed before he came here. He is not only the son of man, but he is the son of God also. He IS a God in embryo, and possesses within him a spark of that eternal flame..." (3rd "prophet" John Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, pp. 52-54, as cited in Teachings of the Presidents: John Taylor, p. 2, 2001 -- compiled & published by its "intellectual reserve" publishing trademark).
* "If we take man, he is said to have been made in the image of God...being his son, he is, of course, his offspring, an emanation from God...He...came forth possessing, in an embryonic state, ALL the faculties and powers of a God." (Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, p. 52, as cited in Teachings of the Presidents: John Taylor, p. 3, 2001).

12th Lds 'prophet' Spencer W. Kimball

Many people know of Spencer W. Kimball, the 12th "prophet" of the Lds church (1973-1985), as the man who allowed blacks to become Mormon priests in 1978.

But did you know Mormonism teaches you are all "gods in embryo"??? (And Kimball was one of its key proponents)

Did you know that Mormonism teaches the false "gospel" of self-transformation -- of pulling yourself up by the bootstraps to become a god? (And Kimball was one of its key proponents)

Spencer W. Kimball on these very topics:

1969 "Being a GOD IN EMBRYO with the seeds of godhood neatly tucked away in him, and with the power to become a god eventually, man need not despair...he must...transform himself..." (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 173-174)

A couple he was advising in Kimball's office "did not understand that forgiveness is not a thing of days or months or even years but is a matter of intensity of feeling and transformation of self...This couple seemed to have no conception of satisfying the Lord, of paying the total penalties and obtaining a release..." (Ibid, p. 156)

To Kimball, you had to "pay the total penalties" for your sin -- vs. that being a role occupied by the true Jesus Christ.

September, 1974: Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. Source: (Spencer W. Kimball speech entitled Be Ye Therefore Perfect 9/17/74 devotional address @ BYU)

1975: Man is created in the image of God. He is a GOD IN EMBRYO. He has the seeds of godhood within him, and he can, if he is normal, pick himself up by his bootstraps and literally move himself from where he is to where he shows he should be." Source:, "Love vs. Lust," Spencer W. Kimball, Provo: BYU Publications, 1975

November 1977: Self-mastery, then, is the key, and every person should study his own life, his own desires and wants and cravings, and bring them under control. Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. To be perfect, one can turn to many areas as a starting place....As we have stated before, the way to perfection seems to be a changing of one’s life—to substitute the good for the evil in every case. Source: By President Spencer W. Kimball An address given to students of Weber State College, Ogden, Utah on 4 November 1977

July, 1978 Ensign Magazine: Lds church officially endorses Kimball Weber State College comments by publishing them in their official magazine

This quote also becomes part of Chapter 19 of what Lds officially teach college students in their Institute curricula: See

1,207 posted on 08/12/2012 6:29:06 AM PDT by Colofornian (Why don't you 'birthers' ask Mitt about his 'spirit-birth' on planet near Kolob? Hypocrisy @ work?)
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To: cripplecreek
While I agree usually with JR on most things, his stand on Mormonism is a slippery slope. As an evangelical I believe in all my years of study of the scripture, fellowship with other Chritsians, and reading and studying other great protestant leader and thinkers, that Catholicism is a false religion also. It is based on the foundation of lies, extra biblical traditions, falsehoods, misinterpretations and outright cultism.

I have been admonished in many threads on FR for taking this stand, standing for the truth, not how I see but as our Lord Jesus Christ sees it as he and others said in the the Word of God. Mary is not needed for salvation either as an intercessor, helper or encourager, The Pope is not the infallible interpreter of scripture, and its heresy to constantly symbolically crucify our Lord. See where I could say as false as the Book of Mormon is , the Catholic religion is false also. Only difference is the Catholic religion(Notice I do not say faith) has numbers on their side and here on FR one man’s cult is another man’s doctrinal differences. We should dislike Romney for his political stances nothing more. The Lord himself does not have much use for politics, See 1st Samuel, Judges, and Exodus. I think relgious bigotry is not a good thing in a forum where we claim to be in the spirit of Jerffersonian Democracy like our Forefathers. I do not agree with Catholics, I do not beleive most of them are Christians but would I vote for one, absolutely if his politics and his honesty and integrity are demonstrable.

1,208 posted on 08/12/2012 6:29:06 AM PDT by pburgh01 (No more GWBs, say no to Perry.)
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To: sf4dubya

Are we at the part where they start sacrificing the chickens and speaking in tongues yet?


1,209 posted on 08/12/2012 6:29:56 AM PDT by chessplayer
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To: FR_addict

“I agree that Mormonism is a false non-Christian religion, but the Muslim religion is worse. Muslims are actively killing Christians in Arab and African countries, which the mainstream media chooses to ignore. And our current president is either a huge sympathizer or a Muslim. He supports the Muslim brotherhood and other known Muslim terrorist organizations.”

One kills the body- the other kills the soul.

Neither is my choice

1,210 posted on 08/12/2012 6:31:36 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: DAC21

We’d have thought if a viable third party were to arise, it would have been in the face of someone like Barack who was not just a loser but markedly evil and wicked. If Barack, forever dedicated to Doing The Wrong Thing, did not inspire this to happen, why should we expect that Mitt with his mere wafflings will?

Will the Democrats produce a reasonable candidate in the face of R&R? I doubt they have it in them any more to produce even a Bill Clinton. Blue dogs now get quickly euthanized.

1,211 posted on 08/12/2012 6:32:01 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
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To: GlockThe Vote
Please explain to god your actions to give obama a second term. You people are insane.

My actions will be for a conservative. If you plan to vote for Romney, you might consider changing your screen name.

1,212 posted on 08/12/2012 6:32:29 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Conservatism is not a matter of convenience.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Neither is Harry Reid, also Mormon. Yes, there are higher authorities in the church. They tell you what you SHOULD do, not what you MUST do Then you either go as you’re going or try to get closer to what they have been telling you, and depend on Jesus’ s mercy to get you the rest of the way home. Much as Baptists & Catholics do. I do not know if Romney & Reid are satisfied with their choices or not.


1,213 posted on 08/12/2012 6:33:02 AM PDT by Old Student (Do NOT make me get out the torches and pitchforks...)
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To: Graybeard58
I may be the only person here never visited by Mormon "Missionaries", I feel so,so left out.

Awww, but don't feel so sad. You didn't miss much :-)

1,214 posted on 08/12/2012 6:33:07 AM PDT by Tamzee (The U.S. re-electing Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and ramming the iceberg again.)
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To: Colofornian

All of that drivel is irrelevant and signifies nothing. The day for that wordy band width hogging balderdash is over. It no longer matters other than to show you for what you are.

That would be an American misfit unable to accept the reality of going forward out of the confines of you personal rut.

1,215 posted on 08/12/2012 6:35:39 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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Comment #1,216 Removed by Moderator

To: pburgh01

I don’t think we can make an accurate statement categorical across all Catholic congregations about how many have put personal saving faith in Jesus Christ and how many are following a mere philosophical system hoping that the rites will carry them along to glory. Churchgoers who are spiritually dead are a big problem in the evangelical world, too.

1,217 posted on 08/12/2012 6:37:04 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
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To: Colofornian

Holy smokes!

1,218 posted on 08/12/2012 6:37:12 AM PDT by novemberslady
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To: bert

Bandwidth? Get with it bro. This is the day of DSL and Wifi and Clear and cable modems and etc.

1,219 posted on 08/12/2012 6:38:26 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
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To: Jim Robinson

Your right Jim Rob. I get SICK and TIRED of not getting to vote for someone decent, and having to vote for puke RINOs like McScream and RomnieCare. We are always having to vote to KEEP someout out of the White House instead of voting to put someone we can really feel good about to get them in.

1,220 posted on 08/12/2012 6:40:05 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (If you cannot read the sign of the times, I suggest you read the Scriptures. They are CLEAR!)
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