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Gun Hypocrisy: With so many guns what are 2nd Amendment enthusiasts waiting for?
Nolan Chart ^ | December 9, 2012 | Joel S. Hirschhorn, libertarian

Posted on 12/22/2012 4:29:34 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Puzzling me for a long time is the inconsistency between two claims by gun and Second Amendment supporters. One is that what they worship is critically needed to defend themselves against a government that they would view as oppressive and unacceptable. The other is their belief that the US government has already become awful, stealing their liberties.

Why then, I keep asking myself, have we not seen a violent uprising among the untold millions of Americans owning guns to take back their government? Why do we not see what goes on in European nations, namely violent public uprisings against governments?

There is more private gun ownership in the US than any other nation. We have a far right part of the population with considerable public presence and power. FOX News, the Tea Party movement, and countless groups and think tanks angrily attacking the mainstream media, liberals, and leftist politicians as well as just about everything done by President Obama.

So, why hasn’t the massive number of gun nuts who keep expressing their love of the Second Amendment actually done what they claim is exactly needed, what the Second Amendment was created to give them the right to do, and what their massive gun power supposedly gives them the means to accomplish? Especially when they lose major elections, when their Republican and conservative politicians fail to deliver to them?

Are the paranoid doom and gloom gun nuts waiting for things to get a whole lot worse before they actually implement the grand plan to use their guns to overthrow what they see as an evil, unconstitutional and oppressive government?

From their perspective, how much worse does the government have to become before they finally get the courage to use their guns and restore American democracy and liberties?(continued)

(Excerpt) Read more at nolanchart.com ...


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; cw2; cwii; guncontrol; obama; secondamendment; teaparty; teapartyrebellion
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We are being goaded by this article - best not to respond.


51 posted on 12/22/2012 7:20:15 PM PST by omni-scientist
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To: Argus
I no more worship my guns than I do my fire extinguishers. I don’t want to have to use either in an emergency, but it’s far better to have and not need them than vice versa.

Well said.

52 posted on 12/22/2012 7:35:54 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

i think the reason for many is that they know force doesn’t convince anyone of your side, and it’ the resort of last choice. most people want to be able to defend themselves, most don’t have guns so that they can go on offense and start a revoluton.


53 posted on 12/22/2012 7:44:34 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Hot Tabasco

Have you ever heard of Ann Barnhardt?


54 posted on 12/22/2012 7:45:28 PM PST by Sioux-san
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To: Sir Napsalot

hasn’ t happened yet. i believe that one is where some false flag goes after him personally.


55 posted on 12/22/2012 7:45:28 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Argus

and you can kill someone with a fire extinguisher, several ways. not a bad analogy.


56 posted on 12/22/2012 7:47:25 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: jwalsh07

could be. “If sh#t happens, sh#t happens.”


57 posted on 12/22/2012 7:49:37 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: RedMonqey

there will never be another george washington.

that doesn’t mean there won’t be good leaders, but we’ll never have another george washington.


58 posted on 12/22/2012 7:52:35 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Terry L Smith

personally i think they are just dying for a response to bring the hammer down. they have no idea what they are facing. 80 million leaderless patriot resistors.


59 posted on 12/22/2012 7:55:28 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Harry Belfonte says Obama ought to go Third World on us and start governing by dictat.

Maxine Waters says they ought to nationalize the oil companies.

Ed Schultz and Andrew Cuomo say it’s time to confiscate our weapons.

Obama says it’s time to fundamentally transform America, and redistribute all the wealth.

Jamie Foxx says it’s cool to kill all the white people.

Why isn’t Hirschhorn calling for the Left to get on with it?

Fact is it seems evident that both sides ARE making the early moves, getting their troops into position.

I like our chances.


60 posted on 12/22/2012 7:56:14 PM PST by Fightin Whitey
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To: gitmo

giffords’ nutjob shooter was left of her, he was pissed she wasn’t liberal enough, and the last straw was she didn’t vote for pelosi as speaker.


61 posted on 12/22/2012 7:57:34 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Delta Dawn

I think he’s talking about the people PO’d about the dreadful austerity they are being threatened with while they run out of rich people to further tax.


62 posted on 12/22/2012 7:59:45 PM PST by visualops (artlife.us)
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To: Secret Agent Man
we’ll never have another george washington.

And if the history revisionists have their way, future generations won't even know that he ever existed.

63 posted on 12/22/2012 8:55:15 PM PST by Salvey
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

FOX News is not right wing.

And there is no grand “right-wing” plan to start another civil war.

The left is going to have to start it, as they will eventually. We’ll be waiting with our guns.


64 posted on 12/22/2012 9:06:23 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

65 posted on 12/22/2012 9:31:07 PM PST by RC one (From My Cold Dead Hands.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

When you decide you can’t take it one minute longer, pick up your gun and go out on your porch. Look to your left, then look to your right. If you’re the only one standing on the porch with a gun in your hand, go back inside.


66 posted on 12/22/2012 10:03:52 PM PST by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I reject the allegation that firearms and the Second Amendment are objects of “worship.”


67 posted on 12/22/2012 10:20:19 PM PST by Elsiejay
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To: Terry L Smith
I call it the "low effective information" crowd.

I consider there to be two types of information: True Information (TI) and False Information (FI).

The useful metric is what I call Effective Information (EI), where

EI = TI - FI.

Whereas TI and FI are always zero or positive, EI can be (and often is) negative.

A person can have EI = 0 either because he has no information, or because his true information equals in magnitude his false information. And, of course he can have negative EI because his false information exceeds his true information.

I concede that there can be a dispute as to whether a given I belongs in the subcategory of TI or FI.

≤}B^)

68 posted on 12/23/2012 12:21:12 AM PST by Erasmus (Zwischen des Teufels und des tiefen, blauen Meers)
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To: Secret Agent Man
I'm wondering if there will be ever be another America. If civilization fails, what's the expected latency period for its rebirth?

This is A Canticle for Leibowitz territory.

69 posted on 12/23/2012 12:34:17 AM PST by Erasmus (Zwischen des Teufels und des tiefen, blauen Meers)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

America is aware that the Kenyan is imposing a communist dictatorship. Gun confiscation would be a red line event for mass resistance. Economic collapse. Urban riots. Something big would have to happen before the populace takes on the police, national guard etc.


70 posted on 12/23/2012 12:41:21 AM PST by y6162
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
So, why hasn’t the massive number of gun nuts who keep expressing their love of the Second Amendment actually done what they claim is exactly needed, what the Second Amendment was created to give them the right to do, and what their massive gun power supposedly gives them the means to accomplish? Especially when they lose major elections, when their Republican and conservative politicians fail to deliver to them?

Because we understand that "this, too, shall pass"...in another four years.

OTOH, try cancelling (or comparable) elections by whatever means, and it is a whole different ball game.

71 posted on 12/23/2012 12:57:01 AM PST by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: Revolutionary
I think the trigger will be swat kicking in doors without warrants.
We already know the respect they show dogs, imagine the respect they'll show gun owners.
72 posted on 12/23/2012 1:05:45 AM PST by MaxMax (Gun free zones was the invitation to gun bans)
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To: cripplecreek

But what if it’s too late?


73 posted on 12/23/2012 1:35:02 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well, one of these days.


74 posted on 12/23/2012 1:40:41 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Erasmus

the new starts forming before the old is gone.


75 posted on 12/23/2012 1:49:06 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: cripplecreek

You know that is important when the NY Times writes it up as one-party state governments not being a good thing, rather than telling its readers about the Republican victory in the states.

Yes, there is a nice bar graph if you bother to continue reading the story inside which shows the Republicans winning many more state governorships and legislatures, but that was certainly not the point of the story.

The Times is so useful. When they go to the trouble to distort a story on their front page, you know that the real story is very important.


76 posted on 12/23/2012 2:03:59 AM PST by firebrand
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Be very careful what you wish for.


77 posted on 12/23/2012 2:12:29 AM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
there will never be another George Washington.



Agreed

78 posted on 12/23/2012 8:05:11 AM PST by RedMonqey ("Gun-free zones" equal "Target-rich environment.")
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To: Secret Agent Man

Interesting point. But I suppose that it may take a long time for the new cycle to become manifest.


79 posted on 12/23/2012 8:47:34 AM PST by Erasmus (Zwischen des Teufels und des tiefen, blauen Meers)
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To: absalom01
America is still in that awkward in-between age.

Yup. Awkward...Too late for ballets, too early for bullets.

80 posted on 12/23/2012 10:26:21 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Erasmus

“I’m wondering if there will be ever be another America. If civilization fails, what’s the expected latency period for its rebirth?”

Well, if you consider the old Roman republic a civilized one, and you date its fall at around 50 B.C. and Julius Caesar, you have to go to 1781 for the 13 former colonies to kick out the British. So, the last time was something north of 1800 years.

Question: Will historians date the end of the US republic to Wilson, FDR, George W. Bush, or BHO?


81 posted on 12/23/2012 10:52:37 AM PST by Cincinnatus.45-70 (What do DemocRats enjoy more than a truckload of dead babies? Unloading them with a pitchfork!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Here’s one hint: no real libertarian is a “gun control enthusiast”.

This guy is a straight big-government leftist, pure and simple.


82 posted on 12/23/2012 11:36:09 AM PST by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I saw this stupid joke of an article on another forum and the posters there made short work of it and the idiot leftists who got all wet over it.

First of all what does a “gun control enthusiast” know about the “perceptions” of gun owners?
Short answer - this idiot has no idea (typical leftist)

Some of these idiots believe that China, Cuba and the Norks will come rushing in and save the day for them if us evil right wingers try to “revolt”.

Yep

Now for reality; all that gungrabber looneys accomplish with their phony theatrics is-

1. set off gun buying frenzies that are a blessing for gun sellers and manufacturers

2. set up the democrats for a MAJOR, once in a century BUTT KICKING in the next election (that’s what I am “waiting for”)

Stand back and watch these looneys destroy obama and the democrat party. Let them rave - enjoy it.

And keep adding to your gun and ammo collections.


83 posted on 12/24/2012 6:38:53 AM PST by hank ernade
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Is it rational to explain all this by seeing the gun crowd as being incredibly patient?

Since the 'gun nuts' are free men who have accepted the RESPONSIBILITY attendant to their liberty, they are loath to resort to methods outside the law while hope of legal remedy remains. So yes, Joel, we have been very patient.

84 posted on 12/28/2012 2:35:02 PM PST by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Why do we not see what goes on in European nations, namely violent public uprisings against governments?

Exactly when was the last time a western nation had an uprising against its government over anything other than monetary payments? The author seems to imply that they happen rather often.

85 posted on 12/28/2012 2:39:28 PM PST by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They really need an incident which can be pinned on a group of right wing, Christian extremists.

In other words, something which would justify mobilization of alphabet squads against the heartland.


86 posted on 12/28/2012 2:44:27 PM PST by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: Hot Tabasco

As the great gun rights activist, Janis Joplin, once said:

“Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.”

Or, You are never truly free until you have nothing to lose.

Kids are grown. Got a roof over my head. My “give a damn” is busted. So, I’m headed in the right direction!!


87 posted on 12/28/2012 2:48:32 PM PST by saleman (!!!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; Travis McGee
Answer: We are in a new era of human experience. Message analysis has never been this complete, nor this predictive. I was recently shocked at how messages I had put out in one area of life surfaced in another, completely isolated and presumably firewalled area.

Anything you transmit in any venue can now be cobbled together to form a complete (and probably accurate) picture of who you are, what you plan, what you are capable of, and etcetera.

The powers that be know most of us better than we know ourselves.

88 posted on 12/28/2012 2:55:20 PM PST by Lazamataz (LAZ'S LAW: As an argument with liberals goes on, the probability of being called racist approaches 1)
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To: The Working Man

“Civilians can talk a good game but really how many are willing to go that extra step?

You know... the one that breaks the “Normalcy Bias” or as I call it, “Social Inertia”. A person will not know until it happens and when it does? You can’t ever go back to the person you once were.”

I could name a couple but it would probably get me banned.


89 posted on 12/28/2012 3:04:55 PM PST by saleman (!!!!)
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To: Hot Tabasco

“I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, despite all the bluster and chest thumping by the keyboard commandos, we won’t ever see one as long as the thumpers have jobs, mortgages, payments on their new Dodge Ram 1500’s and families to provide for.......... “

Yep. If the purpose of firearms is to defend Liberty from a tyranical government what difference does it make if you have your arms legally or not. As soon as the first shot is fired every person resisting will be proclaimed a criminal.
Had George Washington lost the American revolution the founding fathers would have been hung for treason.

JMHO but all the blather and chest thumping is just a more grownup version of playing “army”. Nobody wants their toys to be outlawed.

I’ve let a lot of things slide...more taxes, loss of personal freedoms and so on, but the minute Obama personally comes to my house and pokes me in the eye, well that’s my “Line in the sand”
Have a good weekend I’m going to put on some cammo and play computer games lol.


90 posted on 12/28/2012 3:14:19 PM PST by snarkybob (')
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To: Lazamataz

Be neat to see some examples of that so I could more fully understand what you’re getting at.


91 posted on 12/28/2012 3:51:30 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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