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Why America lost the "Civil War"
http://calltodecision.com/Civil%20War.html ^ | October 30, 2002 | Nat G. Rudulph

Posted on 11/02/2002 11:20:01 AM PST by Aurelius

"Civil War" is at best a misleading name for that conflict. Many Southerners avoid using it because of the implication that there were factions in every locality. "Civil" means "relating to the people within a community." The term describes only one aspect of the event, and subtly discredits Southerners defending home and country, rather than fomenting a political coup.

The typical Southern community was not divided at all. Dixie was that community, and the consensus in Dixie was to defy strangers and meddlers from the North who insisted on ruling and intended to invade. The typical Southerner fought for independence. There were (and still are) more differences between Yankees and Southerners than between Yankees and English-speaking Canadians.

It was a civil war, but not on the battlefield. It was a civil war in New York City when a draft protest turned into a rampaging mob of 70,000. That civil war lasted four days because all the available troops were at Gettysburg, fighting soldiers from another land. It was a civil war when they returned and fired into this New York crowd, killing nearly 2,000 of their own divided "community."

It was a civil war when Illinois' Governor Yates reported an "insurrection in Edgar County. Union men on one side, Copperheads on the other. They have had two battles." It was a civil war for the Union Army when the 109th Illinois had to be disbanded because its men were Southern sympathizers. It was a civil war in Indiana when thousands of draft resisters hid in enclaves. From the governor: "Matters assume grave import. Two hundred mounted armed men in Rush county have today resisted arrest of deserters . . . southern Indiana is ripe for revolution."

The governors of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York reported that they could not enforce the draft without 10-20,000 troops in each state. Violent opposition struck in Wisconsin and Michigan. Four thousand Pennsylvanians refused to march south. Sherman wrote: "Mutiny was common to the whole army, and it was not subdued till several regiments, or parts of regiments had been ordered to Fort Jefferson, Florida, as punishment."

It was not a civil war in those parts of the South removed from the border regions. Had it been a civil war, Lincoln's government could have leveraged local support to subdue those states brutally, as it did in Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri, and West Virginia. Union policy was to treat border state combatants as renegades under martial law instead of as legitimate armed forces.

Marylanders were similar to Virginians strongly Southern, but cautious. However, when Lincoln called for troops to coerce the states, Virginia seceded.

Immediately, Lincoln moved to secure Maryland. Habeus corpus was suspended and Southern sympathizers arrested in Baltimore. General Banks dissolved the Baltimore police board. Secretary of War Cameron wrote him: "The passage of any act of secession by the legislature of Maryland must be prevented. If necessary all or any part of the members must be arrested." Arrests were sufficient to prevent a vote. The mayor of Baltimore, most of the city government, and newspaper editors were jailed. One of those editors was the grandson of the author of The Star Spangled Banner. Francis Key Howard wrote of his imprisonment: When I looked out in the morning, I could not help being struck by an odd and not pleasant coincidence. On that same day forty-seven years before, my grandfather, Mr Francis Scott Key, then prisoner on a British ship, had witnessed the bombardment of Fort McHenry. When on the following morning the hostile fleet drew off, defeated, he wrote the song so long popular. . . . As I stood upon the very scene of that conflict, I could not but contrast my position with his, forty-seven years before. The flag which he had then so proudly hailed, I saw waving at the same place over the victims of as vulgar and brutal despotism as modern times have witnessed.

Documents of the period show more than 38,000 political prisoners in northern jails. In The Life of William H. Seward, Bancroft wrote: The person "suspected" of disloyalty was often seized at night, borne off to the nearest fort. . . . Month after month many of them were crowded together in gloomy and damp case mates, where even dangerous pirates captured on privateers ought not to have remained long. Many had committed no overt act. There were among them editors and political leaders of character and honor, but whose freedom would be prejudicial to the prosecution of the war. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus everywhere, arrested candidates, and banished Ohio congressman Vallandigham from the country. More than 300 newspapers were closed. Secretary of War Stanton told a visitor, "If I tap that little bell, I can send you to a place where you will never again hear the dogs bark." Neither habeas corpus nor freedom of the press were ever suspended in the South, even in the most desperate of times. The Raleigh News and Observer wrote after the war "It is to the honour of the Confederate government that no Confederate secretary could touch a bell and send a citizen to prison."

Yankee power was most unrestrained in Missouri. From its initial defiant movement of troops, the Union routinely escalated hostilities. They encouraged atrocities, insidiously veiled behind a facade of inept negligence. They exhibited arrogance and contempt for law, their own constitution, Southerners, and life itself.

The authorities entered private homes without warrant or provocation, seizing arms and other properties. They required written permits for travel. Random "drive-by" shootings of citizens from trains by soldiers were commonplace. Citizens were fined, jailed, banished, and even executed for as little as expressing dissent, or upon the accusation of a government informer.

Authorities called citizens to their door in the middle of the night and shot them or took them away. Amnesty was promised to partisans, but many who attempted to surrender were executed. Men like Frank and Jesse James witnessed these things and vowed never to accept a pardon from such a government.

Senator Jim Lane, known as "the grim chieftain of Kansas," ravaged Missouri. Halleck wrote McClellan: "I receive almost daily complaints of outrages committed by these men in the name of the United States, and the evidence is so conclusive as to leave no doubt of their correctness . . . Lane has been made a brigadier-general. I cannot conceive of a more injudicious appointment . . . offering a premium for rascality and robbing." McClellan gave the letter to Lincoln. After reading it, Lincoln turned it over and wrote on the back, "An excellent letter, though I am sorry General Halleck is so unfavourably impressed with General Lane."

September 1862 brought executions for refusing to swear allegiance to the U.S. In October at Palmyra, Missouri, ten political prisoners and POWs were executed because a Union informer disappeared. Soon afterwards, Lincoln promoted to brigadier-general the man responsible.

In 1863 General Ewing imprisoned as many wives, mothers, and sisters of Quantrill's Confederate partisan band as could be found. The building housing most of them collapsed in August, killing many. Ewing had been warned that the building was in danger of collapse, and the guerrillas believed that it had been deliberate. In retaliation Quantrill sacked and burned Lawrence, Kansas. Ewing then issued an order forcing all persons in four counties of western Missouri living more than a mile from a military base to leave the state. They were forced from their homes at gunpoint and escorted away. Then all property was destroyed. Cass County, which had a population of 10,000 was reduced to 600 by this "ethnic cleansing." Union Colonel Lazear wrote his wife that the ensuing arson was so thorough that only stone chimneys could be seen for hundreds of miles. "It is heart sickening to see what I have seen since I have been back here. A desolated country, men, women, and children, some of them almost naked. Some on foot and some in wagons. Oh God."

Loyalty oaths and bonds were required of all citizens. If guerrillas attacked, property in the area was confiscated and sold at auction. Suspects were imprisoned and by 1864 the mortality rate of Union-held prisoners had reached fifty percent. Union Surgeon George Rex reported: Undergoing the confinement in these crowded and insufficiently ventilated quarters are many citizen prisoners, against whom the charges are of a very trivial character, or perhaps upon investigation . . . no charges at all are sustained.

The Union implemented Sherman's philosophy of war against civilians. He wrote: "To the petulant and persistent secessionist, why, death is mercy, and the quicker he or she is disposed of the better. . . . There is a class of people . . . who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order." To General Sheridan, Sherman wrote: ". . . the present class of men who rule the South must be killed outright rather than in conquest of territory. . . a great deal of it yet remains to be done, therefore, I shall expect you on any and all occasions to make bloody results."

To General Kilpatrick he wrote: "It is petty nonsense for Wheeler and Beauregard and such vain heroes to talk of our warring against women and children. If they claim to be men they should defend their women and children and prevent us reaching their homes." In a moment of candor he wrote Grant: "You and I and every commander must go through the war justly chargeable with crimes."

While ransacking Georgia, Sherman removed two thousand women, children, and elderly to Ohio where they were forced to work in Union war factories. Families were separated, property confiscated, and even wedding bands taken from their hands. The U.S. never tried to reunite them.

Crimes were committed on both sides, but the Confederate offenses were a fraction of the Federals'. The Southern leadership spoke and acted against abuses, while Lincoln ran a "loose ship" of administration, under which authorities could tacitly countenance abuses while professing to be against them. Lincoln once asked McClellan if he could get close enough to Richmond to shell the civilian population of the city.

When Jefferson Davis was urged to retaliate in kind, and adopt a cruel war policy like the U.S., cabinet member Judah P. Benjamin said "he was immovable in resistance to such counsels, insisting that it was repugnant to every sentiment of justice and humanity that the innocent should be made victims for the crimes of such monsters."

America lost the "civil war" because she lost her soul. You opine that those were necessary war measures? Then why were they never employed by the Confederacy even in the dark days of imminent defeat? It was because the South still adhered to the transcendence of principle. The South did not believe that the end justified the means. Most Southerners believed that right and wrong and truth were God-given, and not man's creation.

Therefore, man had to submit to them. It was not man's place to decide that principles could be abandoned when expedient. Robert E. Lee said it best: "There is a true glory and a true honour; the glory of duty done the honour of the integrity of principle."

Transcendence means "above and independent of, and supreme." To recognize the transcendence of principle is to recognize that there are absolutes, and that absolutes must come from a Creator. It is to acknowledge that these absolutes are not social constructs that have evolved over time or situational posits that can be altered when fashionable. This humility leads men to respect authority, honor their heritage, and submit to the wisdom that has preceded them, acknowledging their own dependence, and not imagining that they are autonomous, without accountability.

It is chiefly social and familial accountability, enabled by the presence of law written in the conscience of humanity, which restrains the evil that is present within man, thereby establishing civilization. The reality of evil within humanity is evident in the corrupting effect of power, since power is of itself neither good nor evil. Power, in its simplest form, is the lack of restraint, while restraint is accountability in some form. Enduring and benevolent civilizations have recognized this and embraced restraints to ensure that human power would not be concentrated to their detriment. The Constitution was a codified restraint of this kind.

Restraints on the central government are as necessary to protect us from tyranny as the balance between the executive, legislative, and judicial branches. The limits are proportional to the power retained by the states, because the states are the only entities capable of enforcing meaningful restraint upon the federal government. Although they originally delegated limited power to that government, it has usurped all the power. That usurpation became unstoppable after the South lost, because the tenth amendment became a dead letter, and all the states lost. The possibility of secession was the only deterrent sufficient to guarantee states the sovereignty necessary to hold the central power accountable.

The victors justified themselves to the world and history by brute force and sly obfuscation. The elimination of slavery was trumpeted as the justifying crown of victory. As to saving the Union, is that not like preserving a marriage by beating the wife into submission?

The result is the humanist monster-state, and activist judges who reinvent what the constitution means. They have lost the ability to understand and receive it, since they have abandoned the transcendence of principle. They will always find a way to make themselves the final authority. New amendments designed to strengthen the plain intent of the Founding Fathers will eventually fail, because no loophole can be drawn so tight as to eliminate a scoundrel.

Both sides lost. The U.S. lost its character and began the abandonment of transcendent foundations. Dixie lost its will to live. Yet where principles remain- under cold ashes, deeply buried remains an ember of hope. And where there is a smoldering hope, the fire may yet burn again.

Mr. Rudulph is the SL Southwest Alabama District Chairman.

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1 posted on 11/02/2002 11:20:01 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
If the South had won the War Between the States, (as I recall it described as a youth), it would have created Europe in North America. The Republic would have degenerated into a mass of bickering, war torn, parochial States. Do you really think that the 13 States of the Confederacy would have been it? I doubt it. Read the Federalist Papers. The Founders were well grounded in history when they established the Republic.

That said, I have more than a little sympathy with your view that the origins of the Leviathan can be traced in part to the War Between the States. But surely we can work to restore the Republic within the framework established by the Founders.

2 posted on 11/02/2002 11:32:41 AM PST by trek
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To: trek
Oops, 11 States in the Confederacy. 13 original colonies. But I hope you get my point.
3 posted on 11/02/2002 11:35:52 AM PST by trek
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To: Aurelius
Pointing out the nobility of the slave states. LOL!
4 posted on 11/02/2002 11:42:01 AM PST by breakem
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To: Aurelius
Our resident nutcase, who I will not name, freepmailed me after I reported his abusing of a pro South poster where he said the Southerner would be happy about the DC snipings. The Freepmail was deleted unread.
5 posted on 11/02/2002 11:44:39 AM PST by Hacksaw
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To: Aurelius
...Southerners defending home and country, rather than fomenting a political coup.

Uh, yeah.

6 posted on 11/02/2002 11:51:15 AM PST by Petronski
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To: trek
"That said, I have more than a little sympathy with your view that the origins of the Leviathan can be traced in part to the War Between the States."

Thank you for your sympathy. The War Between the States was the second battle of the American Revolution... the Republic of America lost. Empire won and what you refer to as "the Leviathan" was born. Our Federal Government became the Central Government and so it goes.

There is no bickering among the "Sovereign" states. Bickering is not allowed
7 posted on 11/02/2002 11:57:12 AM PST by limitedgov
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To: Aurelius
This article goes to show that might is right. We can be a civil people, but we can also turn on each other in a heartbeat. Our current government situation also shows that the government can turn evil in a second. Challenge people in power and they turn against those that gave them their power.
8 posted on 11/02/2002 12:02:19 PM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: breakem
Southerners, or some anyhow, practised slavery, moreover in a particulary egregious form. We recognize that practise todays as dreadfully wrong, but they did not. They were morally in error, but one can be morally in error and still be capable of noblity. So I find there to be no basis for your reported laughter.

It is entirely possible, if people like Peter Singer and his ilk get their way, that in a hundred years we will be as condemned for our carnivorous diet as southerners of 150 years ago are condemned today for practising slavery.

9 posted on 11/02/2002 12:10:57 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
""Many Southerners avoid using it because of the implication that there were factions in every locality.""

Um, well, yes. You must know that there certainly were many factions.

Secession in the Confederacy was county-by-county. There were large numbers of counties all over the south that never did secede. The eastern half of Tennessee, for example, and what is now West Virginia. Kentucky, as a state, never secceded either.

For that matter, each Confederate State seems to have been its own faction.



10 posted on 11/02/2002 12:14:58 PM PST by jimtorr
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To: PatrioticAmerican
Every Condederate soldier was a Democrat, and every rebel collaborator in the North was a Democrat. In the South, at least 40% of the people remained loyal to the U.S. Government -- the blacks (don't they count?) plus people in Appalachia and the Ozarks, whom the Confederates called "billy yanks in the hills" or "hill billies". How can people today condemn people in this country waging war (jihad) against the government today while praising those who in the 1860s killed 400,000 U.S. troops? For history from the Republican point of view, read "Back to Basics for the Republican Party" at www.republicanbasics.com

11 posted on 11/02/2002 12:15:23 PM PST by Grand Old Partisan
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To: trek
A few comments...

First, 13 Confederate States cann be correct as Kentucky and Missouri each had representation in the Confederate Congress. They each had reps in two congresses at once including governors etc. That's why their were `13 stars on the Confederate flag.

I believe Maryland would have seceeded were a vote allowed. I base this opinion on the fact that Lincoln won less than 3 % of the popular vote in 1860, and Douglas, the other northern canidate won 6.5 %.

The reason I reject the term Civil War is a civil war is when two groups fight for the same government, like the Russian Civil War or the English Civil War. This was more properly defined a s a war of secession, like the American Revolution. Therefore, I believe the War For Soouthern Independence is less controversial and more accurate.

I don't know why people assume the CSA would break apart. It didn't. Even under the most trying circumstances, it stayed together throughout the war. Once the Mississippi was cut and the CSA was split into two, the Trans-Mississippi region fought as hard as any other part, and there was never any move to secession or separate peace. I don't get this argument that is argued in history clatches everywhere. While nothing lasts forever, I don't see why this government would be any less stable than any other. I think governments tend to get more powerful over time anyway.

12 posted on 11/02/2002 12:19:42 PM PST by Beernoser
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Every Confederate soldier was a Democrat, and every rebel collaborator in the North was a Democrat. In the South, at least 40% of the people remained loyal to the U.S. Government -- the blacks (don't they count?) plus people in Appalachia and the Ozarks, whom the Confederates called "billy yanks in the hills" or "hill billies". How can people today condemn people in this country waging war (jihad) against the government today while praising those who in the 1860s killed 400,000 U.S. troops? For history from the Republican point of view, read "Back to Basics for the Republican Party" at www.republicanbasics.com


13 posted on 11/02/2002 12:20:16 PM PST by Grand Old Partisan
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To: Grand Old Partisan
"How can people today condemn people in this country waging war (jihad) against the government today while praising those who in the 1860s killed 400,000 U.S. troops?"

The soldiers in the latter case were defending their country against an invading foreign army. Seems a considerable difference to me.

14 posted on 11/02/2002 12:21:13 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
The United States is my country, your country, and the country of every American then and now. Incidentally, in addition to the 200,000 southern blacks who fought for the U.S. flag, so did 100,000 southern whites. They somehow do not get mentioned in history books because, now and then, most history books are and were written by Democrats. There were 35 regiments of white southerners in the U.S. army during the 1860s -- such as the 10th U.S. Tennessee Infantry, the 2nd U.S. Florida Cavalry, and General Sherman's personal escort during his march to the sea, the 1st U.S. Alabama Cavalry.

15 posted on 11/02/2002 12:27:54 PM PST by Grand Old Partisan
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To: Grand Old Partisan
The criminal enterprise known as the democratic party today is very similar to the Radical Republicans of the 19th century.

What never gets reported in the history books, are the Blacks who fought as Confederates, Lincoln's racist views, and the outrageous economic and moral bullying by the North in the years just prior to the war.

16 posted on 11/02/2002 12:33:36 PM PST by agrandis
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To: Aurelius; stainlessbanner
There were (and still are) more differences between Yankees and Southerners than between Yankees and English-speaking Canadians.

That says it all.

17 posted on 11/02/2002 12:34:36 PM PST by agrandis
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To: Grand Old Partisan
No every Confederate soldier was not a Democrat. Many, many were former Whigs who voted for the Constitutional Union candidate, John Bell in 1860. Bell won the important states of Virginia, Tennessee and Kentucky in the election.

One of the less reported facts of the Civil War was how huge numbers of southerners who voted against secession, dutifully volunteered for the Confederate Army or government once the state left the Union. Examples of this are everywhere, but some of the most famous examples were Robert Lee, Jubal Early and Alexander Stevens.
18 posted on 11/02/2002 12:36:38 PM PST by Beernoser
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To: Grand Old Partisan
"The United States is my country, your country, and the country of every American then and now."

Obviously the Confederates didn't think so, and they had a right to that opinion.

19 posted on 11/02/2002 12:37:24 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: agrandis
Zero, repeat ZERO, blacks fought on the Confederate side during the Civil War. At the onset, a regiment of Louisiana free blacks was formed, but the CSA refused to accept it, which then joined the Union forces. Two weeks before Appomattox, the Confederate Congress authorized black regiments, but none were formed. To put Lincoln's racial views in context, the Democrat position at the time was that blacks were to be chained and whipped. As for the Radical Republicans, their name referred to them being radically against slavery. Their bad reputation in history books is due to the fact that most history book are written by Democrats.

20 posted on 11/02/2002 12:39:46 PM PST by Grand Old Partisan
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To: Grand Old Partisan
The Virginia Ordinance of Secession stated that it would not be legally in effective until ratified by a May 23rd referendum. Lee resigned from the U.S army and joined the rebels weeks earlier, which means that contrary to Democrat propaganda, he did not follow his state out of the Union but in fact helped secession happen.
21 posted on 11/02/2002 12:43:21 PM PST by Grand Old Partisan
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To: Grand Old Partisan
"The United States is my country, your country, and the country of every American then and now."

I can think of only three possible bases of authority for your assertion. 1) (The legitimate one) Majoritarian agreement of all parties concerned. 2) Some form of muddle-headed mysticism such as that which afflicted Abraham Lincoln. 3) (The one which prevailed in 1865) Naked aggressive force.

22 posted on 11/02/2002 12:55:34 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
*breaking out the popcorn for this one*
23 posted on 11/02/2002 12:56:04 PM PST by Teacher317
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Zero, repeat ZERO, blacks fought on the Confederate side during the Civil War.

Well, tell that to my friend who just got through compiling a whole reference book on Black soldiers in both armies of the war. Tell that to the many descendents of Black confederates, who still have photos of their ancestors in Confederate uniforms.

Your prtisanship, plus no doubt your indoctrination in a collectivist, governmental indoctrination camp, has blinded your view of history. Washington warned us about that "spirit of party."

For the record, I am, politically above all else, ANTI-Democrat.

PS: The Radical Republicans are praised and adulated in every governmental textbook *I* have seen. They were called 'radicals" because that's what they were, and their aims are being steadily achieved, mostly these days by the modern Democratic Party.

24 posted on 11/02/2002 12:56:55 PM PST by agrandis
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To: Grand Old Partisan
"Zero, repeat ZERO, blacks fought on the Confederate side during the Civil War."

That statement is clearly insupportabe, as any intelligent person would recognize. I believe evidence to the contrary is readily available, but even if it isn't, your assertion is beyond the possibility of verification.

25 posted on 11/02/2002 1:03:14 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: Grand Old Partisan; Beernoser
Read post 18 again. The Whigs in VA even wrote a letter to Lincoln pleading with him to use his head, and warning him that they would join their fellow Southerners to defend their homeland against invasion.

GOP, read widely, deeply, and open-mindedly (the hardest part for any of us) about this era in our history, and I think you'll be amazed at the difference in what is popularly taught and believed, and what is true. I think the best history is a wide reading of actual documents and letters.

This topic is very important. Fortunately, many young people today are being taught a less simplistic, more accurate history of this conflict through parents who are taking their childrens' educations into their own hands.

26 posted on 11/02/2002 1:05:09 PM PST by agrandis
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To: Beernoser
I believe Maryland would have seceeded were a vote allowed.

There was as vote of the Maryland legislature on April 29, 1861. They voted secession down.

27 posted on 11/02/2002 1:07:32 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Grand Old Partisan
"Zero, repeat ZERO, blacks fought on the Confederate side during the Civil War."

Not to be gratuitously offensive, but be careful when you use a term like zero. Of course it isn't true.

For a generation historians have been trying to figure out the question of how many blacks fought for the Confederacy.

Currently it seems that certain things are agreed by both sides. There were many instances of "personal servants" that went to war with a young soldier, and filled the person's slot during a leave or injury or death. There were many times where teamsters or cooks fought for short times due to emergency situations. Stonewall Jackson, who taught Sunday school for slaves before the war was a bit of a magnet for southern blacks, and Maryland civilians reported seeing some Confederate black soldiers from Stonewall's Second Corps marching in order (or as much order Confederates ever marched in) through the streets of Fredrick. There's a report from the Peninsula campaign of Union soldiers finally killing a sniper in a tree and being surprised that he was a black Confederate. In Burke Davis' book "To Appomattox", he quotes from a diary on page 176 of a soldier watching a group of black Confederates driving off a Union cavalry regiment before being itself scattered by a second charge. This may be the only time an all black Confederate group went into battle just 5 days before Lee's surrender.

Anyway, the fact that some blacks fought for the Confederacy is not disputed. Nor is the fact that many more wanted to fight, and many more donated by buying war bonds and such.

What is under dispute is whether these instances were just a few unusual cases, or if it was a larger scale movement. The best book I've seen on the topic I can't remember the title of but it was something like "Black Yankees and Afro Confederates", but it was the best treatment of blacks in Civil War Virginia, the state that had the most slaves, and the second most freed blacks before the war (Maryland first).

Anyway, in the middle of this years of research and argument, it's not helpful when someone says "zero" blacks ever fought for the Confederacy. It doesn't help either side's argument. It just comes across as unlearned.
28 posted on 11/02/2002 1:10:03 PM PST by Beernoser
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To: Aurelius
Bump for later reading.
29 posted on 11/02/2002 1:16:02 PM PST by ABG(anybody but Gore)
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To: Non-Sequitur
"They voted secession down."

Because, as you very well know, Lincoln had arrested any legislators who might have voted the other way.

30 posted on 11/02/2002 1:18:21 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: agrandis
If blacks had fought for the Confederacy, the Confederacy would have won. In fact When General Cleburne suggested creating units of freed blacks in 1864 he paid for his suggestion by being passed over for command of the Army of the Tennessee. And everyone knew he should have gotten the job.

The rapid collapse of the Confederate position in the deep South after the fall of Vicksburg is easily explained by the fact that the Union was able to secure it's lines of communication by garrisons of freed blacks.
31 posted on 11/02/2002 1:20:14 PM PST by Tokhtamish
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To: Aurelius
I know nothing of the sort. The arrest of members of the Maryland legislature who supported the rebellion occured in September.
32 posted on 11/02/2002 1:23:12 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Tokhtamish
If blacks had fought for the Confederacy, the Confederacy would have won.

Wish you were right, because thousands did. It's a fact. Look into it, open-mindedly.

33 posted on 11/02/2002 1:25:43 PM PST by agrandis
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To: Beernoser
As for blacks fighting on the Confederate side, ZERO was a bit much. Yes, here and there a black person fired at U. S. troops perhaps and slaves were certainly corralled into doing trench-digging and whatnot for the rebels, but the fact remains that under Confederate law it was illegal (strictly enforced) for any black person to be in the Confederate Army or in any rebel state militia until the last week of March 1865, when the CSA Congress authorized black soldiers, though none was ever recruited other than slave labor gangs dubbed "companies" and "regiments" at the very end. None fought.

During the CSA invasions of Maryland in 1862, of Pennsylvania in 1863, and of Maryland again in 1864, the rebels brought with them wagonloads of manacles for capturing blacks and dragging them south, probably accounting for any blacks seen marching with the rebels.

The Whig Party disappeared in 1854, replaced by the GOP. Some former Whigs certainly did vote for Bell, but they drifted into the Democratic Party during the war.

Two prominent southern Democrats who remained loyal to the flag to which you pledged allegiance in elementary school were Andrew Johnson and Sam Houston. Far too many Republicans today do not realize that they are parroting Democrat propaganda drilled into them by Democrat history books.



34 posted on 11/02/2002 1:29:33 PM PST by Grand Old Partisan
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To: Beernoser
Could the author of the book you mentioned be named Trux Mobes?
35 posted on 11/02/2002 1:30:29 PM PST by agrandis
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To: Grand Old Partisan; agrandis; Aurelius; Beernoser; Tokhtamish
Zero, repeat ZERO, blacks fought on the Confederate side during the Civil War.

Here is an excerpt from an article "Black Confederate Soldiers" by the black George Mason professor (who sometimes fills in for Rush) Walter Williams (Source: http://www.lizmichael.com/blkconfd.htm )

"DURING OUR WAR OF 1861, ex-slave Frederick Douglass observed, "There are at the present moment, many colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty ... as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down ... and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government." ... Erwin L. Jordan's book "Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia" cites eyewitness accounts of the Antietam campaign of "armed blacks in rebel columns bearing rifles, sabers, and knives and carrying knapsacks and haversacks." ...

In April 1861, a Petersburg, Virginia newspaper proposed "three cheers for the patriotic free Negroes of Lynchburg" after 70 blacks offered "to act in whatever capacity may be assigned to them" in defense of Virginia. Erwin L. Jordan cites one case where a captured group of white slave owners and blacks were offered freedom if they would take an oath of allegiance to the United States. One free black indignantly replied, "I can't take no such oaf as dat. I'm a secesh nigger." ... A second slave said, "I ain't going out here on no dishonorable terms." One of the slave owners took the oath but his slave, who didn't take the oath, returning to Virginia under a flag of truce, expressed disgust at his master's disloyalty saying, "Massa had no principles."

... These are but a few examples of the important role that blacks served, both as slaves and freemen in the Confederacy during the War Between the States.

The flap over the Confederate flag is not quite as simple as the nation's race experts make it. They want us to believe the flag is a symbol of racism. Yes, racists have used the Confederate flag, but racists have also used the Bible and the U.S. flag. Should we get rid of the Bible and lower the U.S. flag? Black civil rights activists and their white liberal supporters who're attacking the Confederate flag have committed a deep, despicable dishonor to our patriotic black ancestors who marched, fought and died to protect their homeland from what they saw as Northern aggression.

They don't deserve the dishonor. "

36 posted on 11/02/2002 1:34:23 PM PST by StayAt HomeMother
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To: Grand Old Partisan
During the CSA invasions of Maryland in 1862, of Pennsylvania in 1863, and of Maryland again in 1864, the rebels brought with them wagonloads of manacles for capturing blacks and dragging them south, probably accounting for any blacks seen marching with the rebels.

LOL!

But you did spell "parroting" right in your post, and I realized I just misspelled it in another thread. :-\

37 posted on 11/02/2002 1:34:28 PM PST by agrandis
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To: Beernoser
You might also mention the big Confederate monument at Arlington cemetary. The carving on one side clearly shows a black soldier marching with a column of Confederate troops. The sculpture was done by a Confederate veteran.

I do agree with those who suggest that black soldiers were scattered and relatively few in number. If Cleburne's plan to intergrate blacks into the Rebel ranks in large numbers had been accepted when it was made instead of a year later, too late to matter, the CSA probably would have won.

The fact that the Confederate government rejected Cleburne's proposal in 63-64 shows that defending slavery was still a war aim. The decision to implement something like Ceburne's proposal in 64-65 equally shows that defending slavery was not their PARAMOUNT objective, as they were willing to abandon it when the alternative, defeat, was very clear and present. Like most of us from time to time, they postponed the decision that might have saved them uintil too late.

38 posted on 11/02/2002 1:37:49 PM PST by docmcb
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To: Aurelius
It may be possible that ignorancy will prevail and a hamburger will be equated with slavery. I never overestimate our intelligence as we evolve socially.

It is ironic that someone can claim the high ground in a war, while they are protecting their state's right to enslave other humans.

I believe states had a right to break away, but there was enough immorality to go around.

BTW I have no problem attacking civilan centers during war. People are ultimately responsible for their government.

39 posted on 11/02/2002 1:44:34 PM PST by breakem
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To: agrandis
As I mentioned, in April 1861 blacks did indeed volunteer to fight U.S. troops, but none were accepted. Frederick Douglass did say what he did early in the war, but he was misinformed. Anecdotes here and there (and a diary mentioning black rebels fighting off a regiment (1000 or so soldiers, a week before Appomattox -- I don't think so) don not amount to much. Today's neo-Confederates cling to the myth of blacks fighting for the Confederacy because they do not want to admit what the Confederates themselves say they fought for. Just look at the rebel states' declarations of secession and the pro-secession speeches in the secession conventions. It's all about slavery and how they had to fight to keep blacks enchained -- nary a word about the tariff or states rights or anything else.

As for being manacled by rebels and marched south into slavery, you wouldn't be LOL if it happened to you.


40 posted on 11/02/2002 1:50:53 PM PST by Grand Old Partisan
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To: agrandis
"We took a lot of negros yesterday. I was offered my choice but as I could not get them home I did not take them" - William S. Christian, an officer in the Army of Northern Virginia during the campaign in Pennsylvania.

One of the more disreputable aspects of both confederate campaigns in the North were the habit of taking Northern blacks that they came across and sending them back south.

41 posted on 11/02/2002 2:02:34 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Like I said, read widely, and with an open mind. Get beyond the textbooks written for the government schools, and the PC textbooks. Read letters from the era, and ask yourself if the popular, PC, North, good/South, bad version of the conflict could POSSIBLY be the truth, in the light of those letters from the people who lived it.

The North has not yet won culturally, but they have made great headway. They still use Blacks as pawns, and pit Blacks and Whites against each other to wield power. Like many Southerners until Reagan, you have not noticed that the parties have switched philosophies (remember Thomas Jefferson was a Democrat, too). The GOP seems to be returning to its old self, though, unfortunately, and the Dems are, well, we all know what they are.

As to LOLs, bloody Bill Anderson obviously wasn't laughing about things going on then, either, nor were any Southerners, Black or White. Look into it all, if you dare - you'll be surprised.

42 posted on 11/02/2002 2:05:19 PM PST by agrandis
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To: Non-Sequitur
Have you heard of Richard Weaver?
43 posted on 11/02/2002 2:07:28 PM PST by agrandis
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To: agrandis
The PC history books of today criticize our country and venerate those who seek to destroy our country. History books of earlier times are generally just as PC, criticizing our country and venerating those who sought to destroy it (the Confederate rebels). Now and then, most history books are written by Democrats. Political correctness was just as vile then as it is today.


44 posted on 11/02/2002 2:16:52 PM PST by Grand Old Partisan
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To: trek
The Republic is dead.

Long live the king.
45 posted on 11/02/2002 2:51:04 PM PST by Maelstrom
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To: agrandis
I think so. Historian from North or South Carolina? What about him?
46 posted on 11/02/2002 4:28:12 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Grand Old Partisan
To believe that the civil war was one of party is to misunderstand the reasons for the war. Not all the people in the South were Democrats at the time, as you state.
47 posted on 11/02/2002 5:34:08 PM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: Non-Sequitur
Sorry for the long delay. I got busy. I just recommend Richard Weaver, is all. If I'm not mistaken, he lived in Chicago, but I might have that wrong. He often comes to mind when I am having these discussions about this war. I think he was good at articulating the misconceptions we moderns have of the world then.

I know it really wasn't that long ago (my father knew of Civil War veterans) but a lot has changed culturally since then, to say the least. Understanding just HOW it has changed increases our understanding of all aspects of that great (I don't mean "good") conflict.

48 posted on 11/02/2002 5:35:41 PM PST by agrandis
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To: Non-Sequitur
"There was as vote of the Maryland legislature on April 29, 1861. They voted secession down."

That falls considerably short of complete accuracy. The legislature did not "vote secesion down" at that session. The lower house voted to denounce and to have no part of the war "which the Federal Government had declared on the Confederate States." They did not consider an ordinance of secession at that time. When it appeared that a secession ordinance might be voted in in the fall session of the legislature, Lincoln had the legislators who were expected to support secession arrested; this was a completely illegal act.

My source is McPherson, pp. 287-289.

49 posted on 11/02/2002 5:42:02 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: Beernoser
BUMP
50 posted on 11/02/2002 5:44:33 PM PST by Aurelius
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