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Can You Help America?
Self ^ | 11/30/2002 | B4Ranch

Posted on 11/30/2002 8:03:21 AM PST by B4Ranch

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1 posted on 11/30/2002 8:03:21 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March; citizenK; autoresponder; Tancredo Fan; willyone; Marine Inspector; ...
HELP!
2 posted on 11/30/2002 8:05:10 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: gubamyster; F16Fighter; dennisw; Neil E. Wright; JohnHuang2; Reactionary; Mercuria; AnnaZ; ...
HELP!
3 posted on 11/30/2002 8:09:13 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Aliska; A Navy Vet; Ron H.; Iowa Granny; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; Britton J Wingfield; ...
HELP!
4 posted on 11/30/2002 8:11:02 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
For a quick start:

STEP #1 -

Immediately start a web "RED-LIST" of your area's employers that hire and employ illegal aliens.

Include your local DMV, Social Services, and Social Security Administration offices, state government, county government, and city government if they also do.

Yes, the SSA also has illegal aliens on the payroll today!

Any corporation such as Tyson Foods should be on your "RED-LIST" because they not only willfully and knowingly hire and employ illegal aliens, they actually recruit them in Mexico and transport, feed, and house them to states like Oklahoma and Arkansas to displace honest local taxpaying American citizen workers.

The wages in food processing and many other industries have been driven down deliberately by Tyson and other corporations and not just in union states or jobs.

Step #2 -

Post a "certified & bonded" list of corporate employers, stores, small businesses that comply with only hiring and employing legal American workers and only buy and/or do business with employers or government agencies that also comply with this policy.

Refuse to bid on any government service or supply if your government employees illegal aliens.

Publish any company and government agency that does plus the names of the CEOs, management, 'human resources' managers, and all the addresses (home and office), phone #s, email account addresses, fax #s, etc.

STEP #3 -

Simply 'label' these employers as knowing and willful scofflaws that are ripping off honest American taxpayers for financial greed and/or 'certain possible alleged' illegal intentions.

STEP #4 -

Watch the fur fly!

This is 100% legal -

If any 'immigrant?' group or the ACLU screams, just point out they are publicly encouraging the breaking of federal stautes are are therefore participating in a conspiracy against the honest American taxpayers and citizens.

Note that no new laws need to be passed or politicians or bureaucrats kissed up to for this action to start.

Label any and all dissenters as "scofflaws", "lawbreakers", "conspirators", "Anti-American", "anti-worker", "anti-security", or any number of names that they cannot refute with their 'fairness' defense.

Remember, when you travel or move to Mexico you cannot pull all the illegal BS down there that Mexico Mexicans, and all the other 4th world nations like Somalia, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Russia, etc do.

If anyone has some psuedo-legalistic reason why this cannot be done please post it on this thread with your legal precedents enumerated please.

Stand up or give up.

It's your country.

It's your kids.

It's time.

21 posted on 11/28/2002 9:16 PM PST by autoresponder
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/797537/posts?page=21#2

5 posted on 11/30/2002 8:11:47 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: All
ILLEGAL ALIEN POEM

I come for visit, get treated regal,
So I stay, who care I illegal?

I cross border, poor and broke,
Take bus, see employment folk.

Nice man treat me good in there,
Say I need to see welfare.

Welfare say, "You come no more,
We send cash right to your door."

Welfare checks, they make you wealthy,
Medicaid it keep you healthy!

By and by, I got plenty money,
Thanks to you, American dummy.

Write to friends in motherland,
Tell them come as fast as you can.

They come in rags and Chebby trucks,
I buy big house with welfare bucks.

They come here, we live together,
More welfare checks, it gets better!

Fourteen families they moving in,
But neighbor's patience wearing thin.

Finally, white guy moves away,
Now I buy his house, and then I say,

"Find more alien! s for house to rent."
And in the yard I put a tent.

Send for family (they just trash),
But they, too, draw the welfare cash!

Everything is mucho good,
And soon we own the neighborhood.

We have hobby--it's called breeding,
Welfare pay for baby feeding.

Kids need dentist? Wife need pills?
We get free! We got no bills!

American crazy! He pay all year,
To keep welfare running here.

We think America darn good place!
Too darn good for the white man race.

If they no like us, they can go,
Got lots of room in Mexico.

6 posted on 11/30/2002 8:12:43 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
Outstanding!!
7 posted on 11/30/2002 8:21:32 AM PST by Ragin1
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To: B4Ranch
Agenda 21 means effectively removing the borders between Mexico and the US. NAFTA just opened our roads to tractor trailers from Mexico. This situation will become much worse.

Agenda 21 happens to be that of the Bush family and the globalists in charge behind them.

Given that our government is generally made up of elected people, start by unelecting those who are not worthy of your votes. Sending a million letters to your GOP reps means nothing if, on election day, you end up voting for them anyway "to prevent the greater eeeevil" and they know that. Find viable alternatives and support THEM in the primaries and, if the incumbent SOB's win, do NOT vote for them. Find someone from the 'other' parties and vote for them.

The NRA does this, if I am not mistaken.

8 posted on 11/30/2002 8:26:05 AM PST by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: B4Ranch
Thank you for the ping. I will be interested in seeing the response to this. The system of Government has failed us completely with respect to this problem. When people come here to make a new life and live by our rules, I have no problem with their contribution. But when our laws are changed or ignored in order to benefit people who steal our identies, work without contributing to the tax base, commit crimes against our society, etc., I have a huge problem. If we want to stop it from happening, we need to stop providing easy access to our services and start implimenting the laws. It is not the fault of many people who come across the borders to take advantage of a better life, imo. It is the fault of the people on this side who allow it to continue! Since when can I walk into a hospital and get treated without paying? And stop writing everything in Spanish and requiring our people to speak that second language in order to have a job in some places! Stop making it so damned easy!
9 posted on 11/30/2002 8:26:54 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: B4Ranch
Outstanding!
10 posted on 11/30/2002 8:30:50 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: B4Ranch
I think it is too late to do anything about the problem.

Someday Mexico (for all its ills) may be a more fit place to live than here. Could happen.

11 posted on 11/30/2002 8:31:25 AM PST by Aliska
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To: Ragin1; B4Ranch
Oops....sorry....I stole your post! :) So let's change mine to.....Fantastic!
12 posted on 11/30/2002 8:32:07 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: 6ppc; Alas Babylon!; al_possum39; American Blood; au eagle; awelliott; baimsey; BamaG; ...
HELP!
13 posted on 11/30/2002 8:32:28 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
My primary and urgent concern is the border itself. It must be better controlled. I don't want a nuclear bomb going off in LA.

Less urgent, but still important, we will have a big problem that a lot of people aren't thinking about. Mexico has a tradition of corruption, like all Latino countries. That corruption is at its highest at the Mexico/US border, where mob activity is thriving. Latino illegal immigrants are very cynical about any shred of integrity in either government. And, not being conversant with US issues or US history from a US perspective, they are the perfect suckers for the DNC, aren't they? I'm beginning to wonder if a flood of immigration helped trigger the Income tax and all the other idiocy that started taking over in the first half of last century.

14 posted on 11/30/2002 8:33:16 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: Aliska
Are you actually giving up? Why, isn't America worth fighting for?
15 posted on 11/30/2002 8:34:03 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
This is the type of action which Freepers[and computers]
have done good.
1. Makin lists.
2. Providing info.
3. Providing sources.
4. Providing legal resources.
5. Submitting data to influential people.
6. Developing 'Talking points'.
7. Developing appropiate 'Key Words'.
This could snow ball if we get behind it and push!
16 posted on 11/30/2002 8:35:04 AM PST by constitution
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To: B4Ranch; Aliska
I agree! Sounds very defeatest, and since when can we not do what we set out to accomplish! It's only when we don't mean to win that we fail to do so. You start by electing people who mean to win, imo!
17 posted on 11/30/2002 8:36:52 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: B4Ranch; Aliska
Aliska can preach gloom all he likes. He doesn't know what this forum is capable of. In fact, I'd say very few people here know what this forum is capable of. This fight is just getting started. FReegards....
18 posted on 11/30/2002 8:37:56 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
landmines
19 posted on 11/30/2002 8:39:19 AM PST by eccentric
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To: eccentric
Landmines are good if they are placed in Newspapers!
20 posted on 11/30/2002 8:41:14 AM PST by constitution
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To: B4Ranch
Bump
21 posted on 11/30/2002 8:41:14 AM PST by Jael
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To: A&P_Keeps_'em_Flying; AirmanAlaska; AKbear; ak_rayhoo; ALASKA; AlaskaErik; ...
HELP!
22 posted on 11/30/2002 8:41:34 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: MistyCA
Sorry but the cards are stacked in favor of electors electing politicians who won't address the problem . . . ever.

All the illegals are flocking in to take low-paying jobs while better-paying jobs are diminishing in this country every year.

I'm sorry I come across as defeatist, but that's the way I see it.

And I'm not sure it is morally ethical to keep them out, even though I don't like what is happening in this country.

Sooner or later the economic bubble will burst because it has been propped up artificially for too long. Then what?

23 posted on 11/30/2002 8:42:43 AM PST by Aliska
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To: constitution
We need YOUR help. Please stay around and PUSH this around the country, into every newspaper and magazine that you can find a link to. Get it on the radio and get the results back here so that we can get to work saving AMERICA.
24 posted on 11/30/2002 8:44:38 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Aliska
Then what?

THEN WE FIGHT HARDER! This is OUR home!

25 posted on 11/30/2002 8:46:02 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
We are the VOTERS! We are the ones who MUST decide what happens in America!
26 posted on 11/30/2002 8:47:21 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Aliska
We are only asking that existing laws be enforced.
There is only one legitimate reason for govts, and that is to protect the people from external threats.
27 posted on 11/30/2002 8:49:27 AM PST by constitution
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To: B4Ranch
BTTT
28 posted on 11/30/2002 8:55:43 AM PST by constitution
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To: 1st Freedom 2A; 356SC; 45ACP; 4mavet; abacab; Aerohawk; AHerald; Alexandre; Angelique; Arizflash; ..
HELP!
29 posted on 11/30/2002 9:00:07 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: 1tin_soldier; a-whole-nother-box-of-pandoras; Ahban; American For Life; ...
HELP!
30 posted on 11/30/2002 9:07:58 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
bump
31 posted on 11/30/2002 9:08:07 AM PST by watcher1
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Are you familiar with http://www.clubforgrowth.com?
32 posted on 11/30/2002 9:24:47 AM PST by Brad C.
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To: B4Ranch; Arthur Wildfire! March; eccentric; MistyCA; constitution; Aliska; Ragin1; ...
I have been in several industrial situations now, where something like the following scenario plays out:

The demand cycle heats up. Need new line workers. Union start rate 15-18/per hr. + benefits after 3 months.

Hire trainees. Local HS Grads and street corner loafers. they have, I have observed: (A)No physical ability, i.e. an 8-hour day is killer! (b) No reading and writing ability which translates into a profound inability to follow written instructions (c)No shift discipline, i.e. ability to show upn time for shift or 5 0r 6 days in a row. (D) It also goes without saying that they have had no mechanical training, which gave older workers a modicum of industrial "common sense." They in some cases must be tiaught to use a screwdriver, and the accident rates among new hires are very high.

Out of 30 or 40 hired, 3 or four make it through 90 days. Older workers take up slack and love it for the overtime.

Slow-down after 3rd quarter. Sack all the new people who are left. High pay, low productivity. Cheaper to pay old-timers (heavy attrition among them anyway) who are left, some overtime.

Next time the cycle heats up, managers hire temporary workers: $10-13 an hour paid to an agency, no benefits. In many New England scenarios, these new temps are going to be illegal Mexicans, or equivalent. The fact that they cannot speak English at first or not read and write is no more of a supervisory problem than using HS Grads. They will be on time. They will work a full week. Come next cycle, throw'em out. Start over when you need them.

Sooner or later, some corporate people logically deduce that it would be cheaper to build a maquiladora on the South Side of the border and leave it closed three months a year.

Soon there is no work in the village and we are left with a huge illegal population and every one is poor. It comes as a shock to the union jocks who gave in to a two-tier wage system: i.e. Good wages for them and benefits: Poor wages and no benefits for temps.

Pardon the condensation, but the pattern is the same all over New England. This country, if my region and experience are valid examples, is not ready for globalization. Our younger people are not properly prepared.

We desperately need to improve the preparation of our "MTV" people, in school and on the job with a training wage setup so employers can afford to train them for a couple of years. They need it. They are simply not prepared mentally or physically, to perform in a business setting.

Because of the short-comings of today's younger people (which is certainly NOT THEIR FAULT), illegal aliens (now instantly deliverable where and as needed by 18-wheeler) are taking over vast swaths of the bedrock industrial jobs. Stopping this destructive trend will certainly take border discipline, but we also have to do away with the economic need for them on this side of the border by training our own people.

It ain't gonna be easy. There is no leadership coming from either party, or even the unions on this.

33 posted on 11/30/2002 9:30:13 AM PST by Kenny Bunk
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To: B4Ranch; All
A suggestion that I have been working on recently, is a combination of efforts.

1....An immediate moratorium on immigration waivers and new applications in the pipeline until major changes are made and the system re-vamped.

2...Under the new Homeland Security Dept., we need to create a massive border security program. We need to expand the border patrol by 150 to 200 thousand members.

We need to do this under the civil service programs that bush has been touting. We may need to re-establish the draft for this purpose. Not for the military, but for a cadre of our young people to protect our borders, while at the same time, giving two years of service to the country.

We can train and board them at un-used military bases. We can give them educational opportunities under the GI bill and a small but adequate allowance for someone who is provided three squares and base housing.

In return, they can get their civil service requirement out of the way, get educational benefits and the experience of training and military discipline. Some may want to continue in a military career.

What say you?

34 posted on 11/30/2002 9:33:39 AM PST by Cold Heat
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To: Aliska
Yes, you seem to see the problem very well. It would appear you are willing to accept it. So are a lot of other people who give up the fight because it seems too big. That's why people like Loretta Sanchez and others are in office....no one wanted to carry on the fight for what was right. It probably seemed like too big a task to take on a bunch of losers we have in office. So we sit and twiddle our thumbs and wait until we are forced out of our homes and off our property. Hmmmm. I guess it's easier to pack our bags and go wherever......
35 posted on 11/30/2002 9:33:41 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: constitution
Yup! You got it!
36 posted on 11/30/2002 9:34:25 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: wirestripper
What say you?

I'm 44 years old but you sold me. Where do I sign up?

37 posted on 11/30/2002 9:35:52 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: B4Ranch; Sabertooth
bravo !
38 posted on 11/30/2002 9:41:31 AM PST by glock rocks
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To: Kenny Bunk
I remember sitting by myself looking at my little kids back in the 70's and thinking about the stupidity of the Woman's movement that was almost pushing me out the door to go to work! I remember thinking, "good Lord....I want to stay home with my kids and take care of them, but if I do that I will be attacked as being a nobody!" I remember resenting the hell out of people who couldn't see that the kids were going to suffer. I remember resenting the hell out of insurance companies that were driving the prices of medical costs sky high, and attorney's who couldn't care less that their "deep pockets-let someone else carry the burden" attitude was helping destroy our motivation to take responsibility! And I remember being laughed at because I was obstructing the progress of all women by refusing to stand up and fight for my right to be free of the burdens of family! What the hell! We reep what we sit around and watch other's sow. Why? Because we don't go pull the damned plants out while they are small!
39 posted on 11/30/2002 9:42:17 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: wirestripper
Border security is one thing, but the fact of the matter is that the best way to keep people from making the effort to come across our borders is to stop making the trek so attractive in the end!
40 posted on 11/30/2002 9:43:33 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
LOL! That was quick!

I have recieved some interesting supportive responses for this idea. I have not seen anyone else advocate anything like it.

I wonder if it might grow legs?

Can anyone see a downside?

41 posted on 11/30/2002 9:44:31 AM PST by Cold Heat
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To: MistyCA
stop making the trek so attractive in the end!

Good point, but this has indeed been addressed before and in failed miserably.

False documents and cash payrolls defeated any progress. Families that are now in place provided a place to live, etc.

42 posted on 11/30/2002 9:48:35 AM PST by Cold Heat
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: wirestripper
Can anyone see a downside?

My first thought was the necessity for these new border guards to be armed. Thus, I see the potential for a number of unfortunate shootings as a result of the lack of quality recruits entering this new civil service. They would need to be very well trained before being unleashed.

It's one thing to mold a Marine recruit to kill in a foriegn land. Quite another to unleash a less qualified individual on our own soil toting the same weaponry...or close to it.

All of which can be dealt with by selecting quality applicants and training them properly.

44 posted on 11/30/2002 9:51:23 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
My first thought was the necessity for these new border guards to be armed.

Frankly, I see no reason for all of them to be armed. Modern non-lethal defensive weapons would be sufficient. An armed special unit could cover any situations where arms may be needed. (regarding the Mexicali's)

45 posted on 11/30/2002 9:58:15 AM PST by Cold Heat
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To: MistyCA
So we sit and twiddle our thumbs and wait until we are forced out of our homes and off our property.

That has already happened to lots of people. Many, many others are dropouts and we are paying for them through social security disability, and on and on.

The only way I see things getting better is for the cost of living to go way down. Even then there wouldn't be the type of jobs to support it for enough people.

Come on. We are living on borrowed time and borrowed money. It won't last forever.

This is a problem than can't be solved by fighting. Sorry I feel that way. I don't know where it will end.

In the meantime, I think people who are in thinking mode should think as innovatively as they can and try to make their own jobs somehow and not depend on corporate or government daddies who only enslave you in the long run.

We have almost 1/5 of our population having jobs paid for out of tax revenues at the federal, state, and local levels. These jobs contribute NOTHING to the GNP. Then we have thousands of jobs which suck up money in the health and insurance fields. All necessary, I suppose, but produce no revenue. Most of the rest of the jobs pander to people who don't or can't do things for themselves like service, carpet installation/cleaning, etc.

Farmers are another category and the average person can never hope to break into that field.

What kinds of jobs are left for our kids? Even college is going to be no guarantee to get and keep a job that will keep one in a decent lifestyle in the future.

46 posted on 11/30/2002 10:02:33 AM PST by Aliska
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
I think the training that these folks should get would be more in line with the MP type training. Courses in law and crowd control, hand to hand and police type training would be the best. Some basic weapons training would be required, but not emphasized.

try not to think in military terms, but more along police and security lines.

47 posted on 11/30/2002 10:05:25 AM PST by Cold Heat
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To: wirestripper
Oh, come on. I know that it hasn't worked but one reason is highlighted in my own home town of Santa Barbara. The powers that be there built (just recently) a whole facility where illegals can eat, shower, rest, relax, and que up in marked lines on new cobblestone streets while they wait for the next pick-up for day labor! What the heck is this all about? The city reasons that it is better to not have all these people peeing in the streets and creating messes, plus they will add to the tax base! HELLO! I was parked in the mall parking lot while a Mexican man took his little kid to pee on the planter right in front of me! HELLO! The day laborers are paid in cash! They don't contribute a thing to our tax base! What happened to the paddy wagons that use to pull up over there and take those guys back to Mexico? What happened to the inspectors who use to go into businesses and do unannounced sweeps to check documentation?

For God's sake, this is the same town where a little over a year ago they arrested almost all the workers from China who were illegally working in the Chinese restuarant. It was no problem for them to do that, yet they conveniently ignore the workers who are flipping tortillas!

Mind you, my family comes from Scandanavian roots. But we are blessed with spouses and new relatives by marriage who are here legally from Mexico. I cherish them more than anything! But I watched as one of the relatives paid $1,000 to have her sister brought across the border to find work. She was provided with new papers. I am very conflicted because I realize that this particular girl is very likely to be a contributor to our economy and probably should have been allowed to come here because she had a sponsor who could afford to assist her while she looks for work. What has happened to the legal process of being able to bring people in who are responsible? It doesn't seem to even exist anymore! It is frustrating for the people who would actually like to do things the right way but can't. Any one of us can probably point to places where illegals are employed, many of whom are paid under the counter in cash. But you know darn well if I can point to them, so can the authorities. And they DO NOTHING!

48 posted on 11/30/2002 10:10:15 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: Aliska
I agree with something you said.....I have always taught my kids to create their own work...control their own destiny. There are reasons why I can understand your defeatest attitude, but it is defeatest, nonetheless. :)
49 posted on 11/30/2002 10:14:00 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: Aliska
This is a problem than can't be solved by fighting. Sorry I feel that way. I don't know where it will end.

The problem that we have is not the fact that we allow immigration, it is the fact that they are coming in illegally, and in too great a number to assimilate in a organized and careful way.

This must stop now! The stability of our governments at the state and local level is at stake. Even national programs are being sapped of scarce resources.

The safety of our people is at stake, and our children are at risk.

50 posted on 11/30/2002 10:16:13 AM PST by Cold Heat
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