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Can You Help America?
Self ^ | 11/30/2002 | B4Ranch

Posted on 11/30/2002 8:03:21 AM PST by B4Ranch

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To: hedgetrimmer
Is it morally ethical to throw away the future of your children?

No. It is our responsibility to raise them in such a manner that they will be able to survive under almost any circumstances.

As to slamming the door on poor people from the south, I wonder what God thinks about it.

Also I wonder how much is our fault that Mexico is in a mess . We set the world standard financially.

I'm kind of thinking out loud here; I don't have a clear sense of what is best. My sense of what is best is that Mexico should have cleaned up their act and made their country nice so people would want to stay. We were the ones who were told by opinion shapers that we were being immoral (the implication) if we produced more than 2.5 children. That was a lie.

I deleted some other things I really think. Deep down I don't trust Mexicans as a whole because they seem sneaky. That may be totally untrue, but I have seen them get away with things I couldn't get away with. An example:

My daughter was in a horrible accident. My ex-husband turned me in to social services because parts of the walls were out in my house because I hadn't gotten around to hire anyone to fix them. Because of possible lead poisoning, the social worker said I couldn't take care of my granddaughter. I managed to get permission from the housing manager (which was really nice of her) to stay at my daughter's government-subsidized apartment while she was in the hospital so I could take care of my granddaughter. I couldn't have my underage son there; he had to fend for himself at home and with friends.

One of the girls in the building had an illegal Mexican boyfriend who got a pass living in government housing and never ever had to get out. Others had drug dealers and all kinds of creepy people hanging around day and night.

That's a microcosm of how illegal people get more and better treatment than American citizens when the chips are down.

There I shouldn't have spouted that off but I did.

151 posted on 11/30/2002 7:46:17 PM PST by Aliska
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Comment #152 Removed by Moderator

To: B4Ranch
How about no entry into state (or federally) funded schools (primary through university level) unless you are an american citizen? Implement substantial fines (and revocation of tax incentives, if applicable) for employers who don't take reasonable steps to ensure they are hiring citizens.
153 posted on 11/30/2002 7:48:58 PM PST by Helix
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To: boris
Why is it morally ethical to enforce our borders? Why is it morally ethical to prevent lawbreakers from breaking the law? It may be a sin to slam the door on the less fortunate. Moral law supercedes civil laws in such cases. I can't really answer that.

My personal feelings may not be in line with higher moral law.

154 posted on 11/30/2002 7:49:39 PM PST by Aliska
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Comment #155 Removed by Moderator

Comment #156 Removed by Moderator

To: MistyCA
157 posted on 11/30/2002 7:57:57 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: B4Ranch
Also, support American made products.
158 posted on 11/30/2002 7:58:11 PM PST by Helix
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To: GirlShortstop; B4Ranch
We must recognize what is, and what has been, happening to our country with respect to the rise of socialism in America during the 20th Century.

This is it. This is the battle we must fight, and if we win the war against socialism, we will be able to control our borders and maintain our sovereignty.

" A country's character, like the character of any man, depends on how hard its people fight for what they believe in. We know how to win against subversion at home... Our weapons are the same weapons as at Valley Forge in 1777-1778. What are they? Belief in God, faith in man, hard work, loyalty to country and kin. Loyalty to the verities for which men lie at Bunker Hill, Valley Forge, Anzio and Heartbreak Ridge. Yes, unyielding, honorable patriotism is the something that in our time will win decisively over the nothingness of socialist atheism." Dr. Kenneth D. Wells
159 posted on 11/30/2002 7:59:08 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
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To: boris
Okay, so we make sure that the parents are here legally and legally employed. If we can raise enough hell about the fact that companies are employing LAWBREAKERS, then we should even get some support from the Democrats. The don't particularly want criminals working beside them. Or want them as neighbors. Or want them dating their children. Or want them employing their children. Or want them medicating them in the hospitals. The list goes on and on. Nobody wants to be around criminals.
160 posted on 11/30/2002 8:03:05 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Aliska
If enough of us honest, hardworking patriotic civilians get angry at what is going on and team up WE CAN FIX IT!

You need to get pissed off at what you are seeing. Then your attitude will change. Sorry for the tough language.

161 posted on 11/30/2002 8:05:50 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Tancredo Fan
It's time to put your spurs on.
162 posted on 11/30/2002 8:07:05 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Victoria Delsoul; MistyCA
LOL. I think that "modern" fable of the grasshopper and the ant is a classic.
163 posted on 11/30/2002 8:08:31 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: B4Ranch
164 posted on 11/30/2002 8:09:54 PM PST by glock rocks
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To: Alberta's Child
I think so too. :-)
165 posted on 11/30/2002 8:15:37 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: sistergoldenhair
166 posted on 11/30/2002 8:26:37 PM PST by facedown
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To: B4Ranch
What I am seeing is the prejudice in my heart. I don't want to spend my days being pissed off. I don't want to be seen on tv with a sign telling them to go home.

I am really pissed off at our southern neighbor for being so ignorant they can't get their act together and build a decent society for their people.

I will vote and that is all I can do.

A lot of me feels sorry for them and wouldn't want to have to walk in their shoes. The other part of me resents them because they get freebies that the rest of us don't get once they are here.

167 posted on 11/30/2002 8:45:49 PM PST by Aliska
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Are you saying Gore would do better against illegals? Bush is against illegals. I have it in writting. He has added almost 600 new agents and plans to add more. Dems and Repubs both have supported NAFTA. I agree this is one of the most serious problems this country faces but how to fight it when the government is for it is a big problem.
168 posted on 11/30/2002 8:58:30 PM PST by dalebert
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To: Aliska
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say.

I do not feel that it is the requirement of the United States to feed, clothe, educate, medicate or protect the entire world. That is the job or PRIVATE CHARITIES.

The other countries that do not have a similar standard of living as we do invariably have too much corruption in the government, more than we do! WoW. That's a whole dang bunch to beat us. They have corruption all the way down to the local trashman.

We set our standards and fight to maintain them. They don't have standards as far as I can tell. They have degradation from top to bottom.

We were a population of of striving individuals who didn't like government officials. Now they are in every aspect of of lives, Agency XXX, Agency YYY, and 40 more. They make laws that aren't legislated. Our Court system quit following the Constitution and started following some socialist Plan, so now we have judges who think they are God and resist telling legislators who can do what to whom.

If we don't stand up and make a fight to get back to our beloved way of life now, our legislators will surely figure out a way to prevent us from even speaking in public when we want to criticize the politicians.

So, lets band together and figure out how to get every illegal alien from every nation in the world who is in America illegally, OUT OF AMERICA.

I don't belittle these people for wanting a better way of life, but I will continue to criticize them for breaking our laws and sneaking into America. We have a legal method of getting here, they need to follow our standards and use the correct legal method. Period!

169 posted on 11/30/2002 9:06:09 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Alberta's Child
It's a good one. :)
170 posted on 11/30/2002 9:22:11 PM PST by MistyCA
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To: Victoria Delsoul
Hey, Victoria! Good to see you!
171 posted on 11/30/2002 9:22:39 PM PST by MistyCA
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To: MistyCA
Good to see you too my friend.
172 posted on 11/30/2002 9:27:43 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: B4Ranch
173 posted on 11/30/2002 9:53:19 PM PST by semaj
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To: B4Ranch
"...Does the word defeat with a fight fit in your flight bag?"

How many ways can I put this?

You can't fight City Hall; The horse is already out of the barn; Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again; The ball has already gone thru Bill Buckner's legs; 'Reconquista' already has built their beachheads X10; The New World Order has already spoken...

Aye, but we'll still fight on matey on a wing and a prayer ;-)

174 posted on 11/30/2002 9:59:27 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: MistyCA
Thanks for the ping Misty. Here's a bump for you!
175 posted on 11/30/2002 10:03:49 PM PST by Jen
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To: F16Fighter; B4Ranch

General Quitman Entering Mexico City with a Battalion of Marines, Sep 1847
176 posted on 11/30/2002 10:41:41 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
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To: hedgetrimmer
Thanks for the inspiration...

Has anyone mention William Wallace yet?

177 posted on 11/30/2002 10:46:03 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: Drill Alaska
Immigration Reform Caucus Members for the 107th Congress
1. Congressman Todd Akin (R-MO) · Congressman Pete Hoekstra (R-MI)
· Congressman Robert Aderholt (R-AL) · Congressman Duncan Hunter (R-CA)
· Congressman Richard Baker (R-LA) · Congressman Johnny Isaakson (R-GA)
· Congressman James Barcia (D-MI) · Congressman Ernest Istook (R-OK)
· Congressman Bob Barr (R-GA) · Congressman Sam Johnson (R-TX)
· Congressman Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD) · Congressman Walter Jones (R-NC)
· Congressman Michael Bilirakis (R-FL) · Congressman Brian Kerns (R-IN)
· Congressman John Boozman (R-AR) · Congressman Gary Miller (R-CA)
· Congressman Allen Boyd (D-FL) · Congressman Jeff Miller (R-FL)
· Congressman Henry Brown (R-SC) · Congressman Charlie Norwood (R-GA)
· Congressman Eric Cantor (R-VA) · Congressman Butch Otter (R-ID)
· Congressman John Cooksey (R-LA) · Congressman David Phelps (D-IL)
· Congresswoman Barbara Cubin (R-WY) · Congresswoman Marge Roukema (R-NJ)
· Congressman John Culberson (R-TX) · Congressman Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA)
· Congresswoman JoAnn Davis (R-VA) · Congressman Ed Royce (R-CA)
· Congressman Nathan Deal (R-GA) · Congressman Bob Schaffer (R-CO)
· Congressman Jim DeMint (R-SC) · Congressman Pete Sessions (R-TX)
· Congressman John Doolittle (R-CA) · Congressman John Shadegg (R-AZ)
· Congressman Jim Duncan (R-TN) · Congressman Chris Shays (R-CT)
· Congressman J. Randy Forbes (R-VA) · Congressman Michael Simpson (R-ID)
· Congressman Virgil Goode (I-VA) · Congressman Lamar Smith (R-TX)
· Congressman Lindsey Graham (R-SC) · Congressman Nick Smith (R-MI)
· Congressman Jim Greenwood (R-PA) · Congressman Bob Stump (R-AZ)
· Congressman Felix Grucci (R-NY) · Congressman John Sullivan (R-OK)
· Congressman Gil Gutknecht (R-MN) · Congressman Tom Tancredo (R-CO)
· Congressman Ralph Hall (D-TX) · Congressman Patrick Tiberi (R-OH)
· Congressman Tony Hall (D-OH) · Congressman Zach Wamp (R-TN)
· Congressman Joel Hefley (R-CO) · Congressman Dave Weldon (R-FL)
· Congressman Henry Hyde (R-IL) · Congressman Roger Wicker (R-MS)
· Congressman Robin Hayes (R-NC) · Congressman David Vitter (R-LA)
· Congressman J.D. Hayworth (R-AZ) · Congressman Fred Upton (R-MI)

178 posted on 12/01/2002 1:56:16 AM PST by yoe
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To: Spiff; HiJinx; AZHSer; MissAmericanPie; AnnaZ; Mercuria; georgiabelle; I_Love_My_Husband; ...
179 posted on 12/01/2002 4:03:47 AM PST by madfly
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To: B4Ranch
Very good and very necessary post. Your ideas of putting the focus on those that employ the illegals is the only effective means of making progress. And some heavy publicity just might do the trick, especially at this time when many Americans are unemployed/underemployed.

I'll do my part. How does one go about finding out who employs illegals? Also, that the SSA employs illegals is quite appalling - are you sure about that?

180 posted on 12/01/2002 4:21:55 AM PST by Paulie
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To: yoe
Republicans will do nothing because they likw cheap labor and want to lower wages. Democrates will do nothing because Mexicans vote more for democrates than republicans.

The only way that we are going to be able to stop this invasion while the United States is still the United States is
- first to not vote for anyone from California Texas New Mexico or Arizona. These states are already lost. Thier politicians may talk like they may want to do somthing some day but you can be sure that they are already in the pockets of the Mexicans if they get the nomination of either party.
- Second ; insist. The voters must insist with votes and campain contributions on representatives that will defend America's border by what they do not by what they say.
If they are in office and they haven't done anything then throw them out and try again. Politicians will get the messege in one election. They may be corrupt but they aren't dummies.
181 posted on 12/01/2002 4:24:39 AM PST by stalin
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To: F16Fighter
I am proposing that we give City Hall the best fight they have ever seen. I have had it with these politicians giving away America. If we are going to lose anyway, then lets go down fighting. There is always the chance that we just might get them to realize what it is they are giving away in the name of diversity and change their course of action.

I'm not the worlds best fighter but I can't see allowing someone to just walk in and take away my freedoms without any resistance at all. I think what gets me the most is that our government wants us to support criminals and they won't support us law abiding folks.

182 posted on 12/01/2002 4:32:39 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Paulie; autoresponder
autoresponder, can you answer Paulie re the SSA hiring illegals?
183 posted on 12/01/2002 4:35:13 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
well said ! I'm standing and will never give up .
this is a greater threat to our nation and culture than Al-Queeda ever was .
184 posted on 12/01/2002 5:23:32 AM PST by ezone
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To: B4Ranch
Whatever we do, we can't allow the federal government to keep throwing money into projects that do not do any good.... HERE IS AN EXAMPLE:

Monday, November 25, 2002
Failure of High-tech Border Cameras Threaten Nat'l Security
KIRO 7 Eyewitness News

A multi-million dollar, high-tech camera system developed to protect America's borders isn't working as promised -- and many days, it's not working at all. KIRO Team 7 Investigators uncover a national security breach that, if not repaired now, could let terrorists simply walk across the border into Western Washington. Our exclusive story exposes a failure that has top-level Justice Department officials scrambling..........

They are supposed to see in the dark, zoom and record images four miles away, even read the body temperature of a human target. Border Patrol calls these super-computer cameras RVS or Remote Video Surveillance. In Blaine, Washington, these lenses are the new eyes and ears along 46 miles of rural, vulnerable Canadian-U.S. border.......

Border Patrol has publicly touted this new system as a panacea for the future: fewer agents more efficiently covering more territory. However, a six month KIRO Team 7 Investigation into RVS reveals massive deficiencies in the Northern border camera system, repeated failures that continue to put national security at risk........

KIRO Team 7 Investigators obtained documents from confidential sources that detail hundreds of specific daily breakdowns with Remote Video Surveillance near Blaine. "All cameras: Controls not working 95 percent of the time." "It's another warm day and the cameras are once again not responding." "Infrared Down, Infrared Bad.".....

and then the clincher (my words):

So who is the contractor on the border camera project? It's a company called International Microwave Corporation or IMC. We've discovered, despite the failures in Blaine, the Justice Department is making IMC the main government contractor for installation of surveillance camera systems along all U.S. borders. We obtained the no-bid $200 million blanket purchase order for the work made out to IMC. But this $200 million contract comes with a sensitive political connection. The vice president of government contracts for IMC is a woman named Rebecca Reyes. Her father is Texas Congressman Silvester Reyes.... Congressman Reyes, who sits on the House Intelligence and Homeland

IMC recently received a $200 million no-bid contract from the Department of Justice to install security systems along all US borders.

185 posted on 12/01/2002 5:35:47 AM PST by Apple Pan Dowdy
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To: B4Ranch; boris
Normally I don't bump vanities but...


186 posted on 12/01/2002 5:51:50 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
I read about that no bid contract and was very proud of our government officials deceiving the American taxpayer so smoothly. I wonder how many illegal aliens work for IMC. We need to get these people out of America and put the jobs back into American hands supporting American families, not Indian, Egyptian, Brazilian or any other foreign familiess who snuck in hear under false pretenses. The Mexicans are the ones who get the most news coverage but I'll bet both my legs that we have more illegal aliens from other countries totally, who outnumber the illegal Mexicans.

Can anyone show me in the Constitution where it say Americans are obligated to support the world?

187 posted on 12/01/2002 5:56:02 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: ezone
Do you have any ideas how we can fix the problem? Convince local employers not to hire illegals is one of the easiest I know of. Just let them know that if you can ever prove it, you will take out advertisements on the radio that they have illegal aliens working for them.

How would it sound if the announcer was to read, "Tommy's Bakery has four illegal aliens working in his bakeshop on 5th Street. These lawbreakers are from _______ and _______ . They have been here three years and you are supporting their education, their medical expenses and their housing because Tommy doesn't pay them enough to so they can take care of themselves. Please avoid Tommy's Bakery to let other employers know how you feel about having criminals in our town. Shop at Gloria's Bakery on 8th Street."

Gloria would probably pay for the ad. and within a week there would be openings for 50 new jobs around town in other businesses.

188 posted on 12/01/2002 6:05:58 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: M Kehoe
Is that a hint that I have posted something that you agree with? Do you agree that we have a problem in America that certain politicians are avoiding like the plague?
189 posted on 12/01/2002 6:08:50 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
I agree that our borders are porous and in the wake of 9-11, dangerous. And yes, many of our politicians are avoiding this issue like the plague. They are afraid to be called racist, xenophobes, etc. It's not easy to grow a spine when you didn't have one in the first place.


190 posted on 12/01/2002 6:18:39 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: B4Ranch
We have a problem!!!!!!!!!
I went to the local mall Friday, Sears was full of Mexican families. They are rude, arrogant, in their minds they all ready own American.
What ever the plan you come up with, count me in.
We are loosing so many traditions I grew up with, because we just might step on some of these illegal and legal immigrants toes.
I say if they don't like our traditions, Christmas Trees, Ten Commandments, etc, they head your butt back to where you came from.
191 posted on 12/01/2002 6:22:08 AM PST by calawah98
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To: afuturegovernor; afz400; ag2000jon; Ag88; againstallhope; Agamemnon; agarrett; agenda_express; ...

192 posted on 12/01/2002 6:24:53 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
Before I leave for work bump!
193 posted on 12/01/2002 6:27:27 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: M Kehoe
Any idea why we REELECTED these spineless critters? Were they the BEST we could find in all 50 States?
194 posted on 12/01/2002 6:28:00 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub
Thank you, Sir! Stay safe protecting us. We need you more than ever before.
195 posted on 12/01/2002 6:29:14 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Morrigan
My employers demand three things from applicants--a valid ID (driver's license or state ID only), a Social Security card, and a birth certificate. This is legal in my state.

Shoot, it's not only legal it's supposed to be mandatory. In other words, it's de law.

All employers do it.

Guess again.

196 posted on 12/01/2002 6:33:44 AM PST by mafree
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To: aglax; AgMom; Agog; agoldin; agrace; agrandis; agrarianlady; AGreatPer; Agrippa; AgThorn; ...

197 posted on 12/01/2002 6:41:44 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: dalebert
Are you saying Gore would do better against illegals? Bush is against illegals. I have it in writting. He has added almost 600 new agents and plans to add more.

Your first sentence is exactly what the Bush or the GOP campaign would say, when targetting the 'average Joe' audience. In other words it's nonsense. The fact some average Joes, including many at FR, would buy this nonsense does not make it less of a nonsense than it is. If Hitler was running on the Demo ticket and Mussolini on the GOP's, you would enthusiastically campaign for Mussolini, because he's not as bad as Hitler? QED.

As far as W being 'against' illegals, it comes down to Clinton's - it depends of what the meaning of "illegal" is. W would get rid of illegals by simply stoping to call them 'illegals'. They are now 'undocumented', soon to become quite 'documented' as more states are beginning to compassionately accept Mexican ID cards. W is the prez who told the average Joes that Mexicans entering our country is nothing but of expression of their 'family values' which indicates that either W is more of a moron than some Canadian idiot could imagine or, more likely, he has a very specific agenda on our nation's future that is not exactly yours.

Again, if you want your representatives to really represent you, they MUST face the possibility of being ousted and send back to private life when they cease to do so. Absent that, they will almost always turn into arrogant SOBs, which is what is happening with your (our) elected officials these days.

198 posted on 12/01/2002 6:45:24 AM PST by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: B4Ranch
If you have listened to Rush, you know the truth of his broadcasts. If you haven't listened to him, here's an opportunity for you to show how good FReeper Republicans can be at finding solutions to our nationwide illegal immigration problems.

Just an aside....................

1) As a loyal listener to Rush for 12 years, THIS is a subject I've heard him comment on maybe 5 to 10 times, if that, over that time period.

2) As a loyal subscriber to National Review, THIS is a subject that, only until recently, they bothered to showcase in their "conservative" magazine.

We need to enlist the large, mainstream "conservative" mouthpieces in this war! They have been asleep at the switch during the 90's and are loathe to really feature the subject, even now.

199 posted on 12/01/2002 6:50:06 AM PST by DoctorMichael
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To: calawah98
It's not bads manners that bother me. I don't like people who break ourlaws.
200 posted on 12/01/2002 6:50:32 AM PST by B4Ranch
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