To: B4Ranch; Arthur Wildfire! March; eccentric; MistyCA; constitution; Aliska; Ragin1; ...
I have been in several industrial situations now, where something like the following scenario plays out:
The demand cycle heats up. Need new line workers. Union start rate 15-18/per hr. + benefits after 3 months.
Hire trainees. Local HS Grads and street corner loafers. they have, I have observed: (A)No physical ability, i.e. an 8-hour day is killer! (b) No reading and writing ability which translates into a profound inability to follow written instructions (c)No shift discipline, i.e. ability to show upn time for shift or 5 0r 6 days in a row. (D) It also goes without saying that they have had no mechanical training, which gave older workers a modicum of industrial "common sense." They in some cases must be tiaught to use a screwdriver, and the accident rates among new hires are very high.
Out of 30 or 40 hired, 3 or four make it through 90 days. Older workers take up slack and love it for the overtime.
Slow-down after 3rd quarter. Sack all the new people who are left. High pay, low productivity. Cheaper to pay old-timers (heavy attrition among them anyway) who are left, some overtime.
Next time the cycle heats up, managers hire temporary workers: $10-13 an hour paid to an agency, no benefits. In many New England scenarios, these new temps are going to be illegal Mexicans, or equivalent. The fact that they cannot speak English at first or not read and write is no more of a supervisory problem than using HS Grads. They will be on time. They will work a full week. Come next cycle, throw'em out. Start over when you need them.
Sooner or later, some corporate people logically deduce that it would be cheaper to build a maquiladora on the South Side of the border and leave it closed three months a year.
Soon there is no work in the village and we are left with a huge illegal population and every one is poor. It comes as a shock to the union jocks who gave in to a two-tier wage system: i.e. Good wages for them and benefits: Poor wages and no benefits for temps.
Pardon the condensation, but the pattern is the same all over New England. This country, if my region and experience are valid examples, is not ready for globalization. Our younger people are not properly prepared.
We desperately need to improve the preparation of our "MTV" people, in school and on the job with a training wage setup so employers can afford to train them for a couple of years. They need it. They are simply not prepared mentally or physically, to perform in a business setting.
Because of the short-comings of today's younger people (which is certainly NOT THEIR FAULT), illegal aliens (now instantly deliverable where and as needed by 18-wheeler) are taking over vast swaths of the bedrock industrial jobs. Stopping this destructive trend will certainly take border discipline, but we also have to do away with the economic need for them on this side of the border by training our own people.
It ain't gonna be easy. There is no leadership coming from either party, or even the unions on this.
To: Kenny Bunk
I remember sitting by myself looking at my little kids back in the 70's and thinking about the stupidity of the Woman's movement that was almost pushing me out the door to go to work! I remember thinking, "good Lord....I want to stay home with my kids and take care of them, but if I do that I will be attacked as being a nobody!" I remember resenting the hell out of people who couldn't see that the kids were going to suffer. I remember resenting the hell out of insurance companies that were driving the prices of medical costs sky high, and attorney's who couldn't care less that their "deep pockets-let someone else carry the burden" attitude was helping destroy our motivation to take responsibility! And I remember being laughed at because I was obstructing the progress of all women by refusing to stand up and fight for my right to be free of the burdens of family! What the hell! We reep what we sit around and watch other's sow. Why? Because we don't go pull the damned plants out while they are small!
posted on 11/30/2002 9:42:17 AM PST
To: Kenny Bunk
Is it not so that many young Americans disdain blue collar work? They all want to be rock stars, or work in some glamour industry, or at the very least, be a "beer commercial yuppie" -- one of those clean, attractive people seen on TV commercials, enjoying the good life with friends in gentrified neighborhoods.
To: Kenny Bunk
Next time the cycle heats up, managers hire temporary workers: $10-13 an hour paid to an agency, no benefits. In many New England scenarios, these new temps are going to be illegal Mexicans,
I challenge you to produce the facts that these are indeed illegal immigrants! As an HR person for a supplier to the big 3, when necessary, we hire legal aliens and monitor when their visas run out. If not renewed they are terminated! I suspect you have a personal gripe against whatever company you are working for because of their practice of employing foreigners when the fact of the matter proves that it is more economical to the company to hire part-time temps and let the agency worry about the extra benefits.
Not to be redundant but it is up to you to support your claim that subject temps are illegals. If you think they are then why don't you report them to your appropriate state agency?
To: Kenny Bunk; Marine Inspector; 2Trievers; sleavelessinseattle; spetznaz; swarthyguy
"Local HS Grads and street corner loafers. they have, I have observed: (A) No physical ability, i.e. an 8-hour day is killer! (b) No reading and writing ability which translates into a profound inability to follow written instructions (c)No shift discipline, i.e. ability to show upn time for shift or 5 0r 6 days in a row. (D) It also goes without saying that they have had no mechanical training, which gave older workers a modicum of industrial "common sense." They in some cases must be tiaught to use a screwdriver, and the accident rates among new hires are very high."
You're spot on. In one of my previous lives I was managing editor for a trade magazine publisher. While touring a new Kubota tractor plant in SC (?) I was basically told the same thing by the plant manager.
Their biggest problem was finding welders. They could not find enough to operate the plant at more than half capacity. They placed ads everywhere and even went to the local high-schools to find recruits. They offered to pay people $10-15 an hour just to train them, after which they could make as much as $20-25 an hour plus benefits and all the overtime they could handle. NO RESPONSE! (I really considered quiting my editors job and signing up on the spot - better hours and bennies, and less stress).
The same problem is occuring with skilled trades like vehicle and equipment maintanance. ASE and other organizations who train and certify mechanics for maintenance trades say the pipeline is broken. The few applicants they do get need remedial math, english, and other skills before they can even begin the training programs.
The Culprit? Our schools! Back in the late 60's and early 70's, the education establishment started cutting back on vocational programs (auto and wood shops) in the nations high-schools.
These programs served as a "secondary track" for those students who had no interest or inclination to continue on to college and provided necessary skills to move on in the Blue Collar world. This seems like a good idea doesn't it? And it was.
But then someone (probably Jesse Jackson), noticed that most of the kids in these programs were minorities and working class white kids. These programs were dubbed racist and elitist.
Why weren't these kids all being prepared for college? Who cares if they want to go or not?
Then schools started getting graded (and funded) based on how many of their students did well on SAT's and then matriculated on to college. The final nail in the coffin was Title 9.
Mention "Dual Tracking" and "Vocational Education" to most Phd'd educators and they will react like a vampire who just bit into a garlic sandwich and washed it down with a shot of holy water.
Because of this, most high-schools no longer have any vocational training. Now you either go to college or settle for flipping burgers because you have no other useful skills and even less work ethic. Go to college or go to hell is the attitude.
Most vocational training still left in this country is performed by the U.S. Military. As the last avenue left for those who are not going to college, even Uncle Sam has been chased off of most campi.
Today, a good ASE certifed mechanic can and will make more money than the average college grad with a 4-year degree. A lot of those poor kids who bought into the "you have to go to college" trap are now flipping burgers alongside todays functional illiterates (shift manager if they're lucky).
posted on 12/03/2002 7:35:38 PM PST
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