Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan
BBC ^ | Tuesday, 15 May, 2001, 05:57 GMT 06:57 UK | staff

Posted on 11/01/2004 10:24:57 PM PST by SunkenCiv

A previously unknown civilisation was using writing in Central Asia 4,000 years ago, hundreds of years before Chinese writing developed, archaeologists have discovered... The discovery suggests that Central Asia had a civilisation comparable with that of Mesopotamia and ancient Iran as far back as the Bronze Age, University of Pennsylvania archaeologist Fredrik Hiebert told the BBC... It is not known what the people of the civilisation called themselves, so researchers have dubbed the society the Bactria Margiana Archaeology Complex (B-Mac), after the ancient Greek names for the two regions it covers.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Reference; Religion; Science; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: archaeology; bactria; epigraphyandlanguage; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; margiana; oxus; turkmenistan; victorsariyiannidis; viktorsarianidi; viktorsarigiannidis
I didn't find it with a Google search, perhaps I wasn't thorough enough.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

1 posted on 11/01/2004 10:24:57 PM PST by SunkenCiv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; 2Jedismom; 3AngelaD; ...
First GGG ping for Election Day. REMEMBER TO VOTE. And join me in a post-ballot toast to all those campaign ads we won't have to see for three years or more. :')
George W. Bush will be reelected by a margin of at least ten per cent

2 posted on 11/01/2004 10:27:09 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

very interesting


3 posted on 11/01/2004 10:28:13 PM PST by GeronL (FREE KERRY'S SCARY bumper sticker .......... http://www.kerrysscary.com/bumper_sticker.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Couldn't find any samples or pix of the writings. Pictographic prolly, huh?


4 posted on 11/01/2004 10:29:48 PM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Translated into English, it says "I have a plan".


5 posted on 11/01/2004 10:30:56 PM PST by SoCal Pubbie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

That name totally sucks lemons.

YAY!!!!!!!!
No more campaign ads!
(It wasn't too bad in Texas)


6 posted on 11/01/2004 10:37:50 PM PST by ValerieUSA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ValerieUSA
:') Ya mean, GGG? I've just been thinking, from now on, I may use "PinGGG." Too cute?
George W. Bush will be reelected by a margin of at least ten per cent

7 posted on 11/01/2004 10:42:26 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Eastbound
Dunno. Probably related to Indus Valley script? Or perhaps a precursor to Chinese? Lemme look around the trusty hard drive... [sound of electrons being moved around] nope, nothin'. try this.
George W. Bush will be reelected by a margin of at least ten per cent

8 posted on 11/01/2004 10:46:39 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
You could try G-Force, but that's what I call my 4 sons (Grant, Gavin, Garrett and Gabriel)

However, I meant the Bactria Margiana Archaeology Complex

9 posted on 11/01/2004 10:46:41 PM PST by ValerieUSA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ValerieUSA

Oh, you mean "Bactria Margiana Archaeology Complex". Yeah, and calling it "B-Mac" isn't an improvement. Sounds likes fast food.


10 posted on 11/01/2004 10:48:11 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Interesting. I was working in my doctoral dissertation on the BMAC and some related cultures. I believe the culture to be the heart of the ancient aryana, prior to a schism between the worshippers of Indra and those who followed the teachings of the reformer Zarathrustra. There's evidence of the soma ritual and I believe I'd identified actual soma pressing stones at numerous sites (albeit through museums since this area was off limits at the time I did my research).


11 posted on 11/01/2004 11:05:49 PM PST by Ilya Mourometz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ilya Mourometz

Its interesting that "soma" comes up not only in ancient civilizations, but also in "Brave New World"
and we now have a drug on the market called soma.

(Stop it, Bob...you're leaping again.)


12 posted on 11/01/2004 11:31:58 PM PST by concretebob (Protect the Naugas..stop sitting on naugahyde.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv; blam

Very cool!


13 posted on 11/01/2004 11:32:30 PM PST by Fedora
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Ilya Mourometz

Could these be the peoples who were here before God made Adam?
Are these the people Cain was concerned about?

Folks, there were advanced civilizations on this planet 30,000 years before Christ. Assuming a time span of 3,000 to 5,000 years per civilization, that adds up to about 6 Earth Ages.

Which, if memory serves me right, the Hopis already knew and warned about.

Relax and enjoy the show. We're ringside for God's Final Solution.


14 posted on 11/01/2004 11:41:18 PM PST by concretebob (Protect the Naugas..stop sitting on naugahyde.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
From the link: (extract):

http://www.ncsj.org/AuxPages/051301Times.shtml

"Whatever its origins, Dr. Mair said, the type of symbols and the small number of strokes used to create each one "makes me think the writing system is already fairly abstract, not pictographic.""

Hmmm. My guess: A transition language from Sumerian to another form in another land. Thanks for the link.

15 posted on 11/02/2004 1:37:33 AM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

The writng was called AMERICAN. We are in a time worp and different dimension. Don't believe me? Look at Kerry!


16 posted on 11/02/2004 6:18:11 AM PST by Henchman (Who gave KERRY entré to the VC @ Paris? T.Kennedy? McGovern? ...some"high" low D'rat probably)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Fedora

An early language in that region was Tocharian A & B.


17 posted on 11/02/2004 6:59:34 AM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Fedora

BTW, the oldest paper ever found had Tocharian written on it. Don't remember how old the paper was.


18 posted on 11/02/2004 7:01:08 AM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: blam; concretebob; Eastbound; Fedora; GeronL; Henchman; Ilya Mourometz; SoCal Pubbie; ValerieUSA
Thanks all for the remarks, and keep 'em coming. I just returned from the ballot box, made a sandwich, and got online. It feels like a burden has lifted. Glad this election is behind me (insofar as Ii've voted). REMEMBER TO VOTE. Thanks again.
George W. Bush will be reelected by a margin of at least ten per cent

19 posted on 11/02/2004 9:11:30 AM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ilya Mourometz
"I was working in my doctoral dissertation on the BMAC and some related cultures."

Any evidence of common origin of all languages from Sumerian?

20 posted on 11/02/2004 11:21:05 AM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: concretebob

Well, I don't know about that. The civilization that's being discussed (BMAC) is approximately 2500-1500 BC.


21 posted on 11/03/2004 6:40:54 PM PST by Ilya Mourometz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Eastbound

I don't know what the writing discovery is. The problem is, without a "Rosetta Stone", it is virtually impossible to relate symbols that are writing with any particular language. Unless there is a way to connect the symbols with phonemes (sounds), it is really impossible to know what language family epigraphs relate to.


22 posted on 11/03/2004 6:43:36 PM PST by Ilya Mourometz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: concretebob

Soma, or haoma (in the ancient Avestan or "Old Bactrian"), probably was a specific plant, perhaps one that was over-harvested and now extinct. Zarathrustra was very concerned about the "injudicious use" of haoma for psychotropic effect rather than it's purely ritualistic use. The word "drug" actually comes from the word "druj" which is an ancient Iranian word meaning "falsehood" or "lie".


23 posted on 11/03/2004 6:46:47 PM PST by Ilya Mourometz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Eastbound; Tealc
This stamp is from the site...

It could be an ancient Goa'uld script, or I could just be having an SG-1 moment.

24 posted on 11/03/2004 6:51:25 PM PST by Redcloak ("FOUR MORE BEERS! FOUR MORE BEERS! FOUR MORE BEERS!" -Teresa Heinz Kerry)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Redcloak
Well, if anything, it looks like it was made for clay impressions. It looks like a pretty fancy handle. Maybe an official stamp. Tax? Postage? Toll fee paid? Assay stamp? Weight and purity?

It looks like it only has four characters on it. I think that would rule out a single letter, or phonic in a word, or even a complete word. A calendar script maybe. A notary public seal or King's seal or coin stamp?

Appears to have the geometry and simplicity of Greek.

It has little similarity or none at all to Sumerian or Cuneiform.

25 posted on 11/03/2004 7:52:41 PM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv; Ilya Mourometz; All

Forget to ping you.


26 posted on 11/03/2004 8:47:14 PM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Eastbound; Ilya Mourometz
I quite agree with Ilya. Cuneiform (a syllabary, rather than an alphabet) was cracked from the trilingual at Behistun, although some progress had been made through some brilliant intuitive leaps. At first Akkadian (a Semitic tongue) was thought to be the language to first use it, but various oddities kept surfacing.
The Decipherment Of Cuneiform Script
Cuneiform Digital Palaeography Project
Already by the turn of the seventeeth century, European travellers in the Near East had begun to notice traces of what appeared to be writing, but in a totally unknown script... As Akkadian began to surrender its secrets, it became clear that not all of the Mesopotamian texts were written in this Semitic language. For some time afterwards controversy surrounded this apparently agglutinative language with no recognisable relation to any other known; was it a real language or just a cryptography of Akkadian scribes (as argued by the semitist, Joseph Halévy)? After much heated debate and an avalanche of new textual material from the French excavations at Al-Hiba, Sumerian was universally recognised as a language.
The Hattusas archive of tablets in Anatolia was in cuneiform, but it was used for eight different languages, with two or three making up the bulk of the archive. They could be sounded out (because cuneiform was understood) but could not be read for a couple of decades, until a Swiss scholar got to work on it and could hear German (including some grammar) of sorts, due to the common Indoeuropean roots of German and Hittite.

27 posted on 11/03/2004 10:33:06 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Redcloak
Thanks for that image. I think I've seen something like this, but not from that part of Asia. Perhaps more later, if I get de-lazified and find what I'm after.
Another ancient civilization found
by Faye Flam
May 3, 2001
"It's not ancient Iranian, not ancient Mesopotamian. I even took it to my Chinese colleagues," he said. "It was not Chinese." ...No one knows the extent of this civilization, which may reach beyond Margiana, deep in the Kara Kum desert, and Bactria, which straddles the Uzbek-Afghan border. Hiebert said he believes that a third area, Anau, outside Ashgabat near the Iranian border, is connected to this civilization, perhaps even the origin of the culture. It is about 2,000 years older, going back to 4500 BC, or the Copper Age.
You'll never take me alive. Oh, sorry. No URL for this one, but it would probably have dropped dead by now anyway.

FR Lexicon:Posting Guidelines:Excerpt, or Link only?:Ultimate Sidebar Management:Headlines
PDF to HTML translation:Translation page:Wayback Machine:My Links:FreeMail Me
Gods, Graves, Glyphs topic:and group:Books, Magazines, Movies, Music


28 posted on 11/03/2004 10:43:39 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: SoCal Pubbie

a similar story, quoted from the NYTimes:

In Ruin, Symbols on a Stone Hint at a Lost Asian Culture
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
New York Times - 05.13.2001
The New York Times
Advocates on behalf of Jews in Russia, Ukraine, the Baltic States, & Eurasia
http://www.ncsj.org/AuxPages/051301Times.shtml


29 posted on 11/03/2004 10:45:48 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: blam

archaeologist Says Central Asia Was Cradle Of Ancient Persian Religion
AFP/Yahoo | 3-18-2005
Posted on 03/19/2005 8:59:31 PM PST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1366457/posts


30 posted on 06/25/2005 8:16:48 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

31 posted on 08/20/2006 9:44:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


32 posted on 10/31/2008 5:50:21 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, October 11, 2008 !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


33 posted on 06/20/2015 11:54:30 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (What do we want? REGIME CHANGE! When do we want it? NOW)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson