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Death of the Aryan Invasion Theory
iVarta.com ^ | December 12, 2005 | Prof. Dipak Basu

Posted on 06/28/2006 10:46:31 PM PDT by gnarledmaw

British linguist Max-Muller has invented the Aryan invasion theory that ancient Aryans invade India at about 1500BC, driven out the Dravidians from their land, have imported the Hindu civilization along with Sanskrit language from the steppes of central Asia. The theory was the justification for the British occupation of India, as Winston Churchill remarked. Although there was no archeological evidence to support this theory, it has become the most important doctrine on the ancient Indian history. Although it was opposed by prominent historians like Ramesh Chandra Mazumdar and archeologists like Rakhaldas Banerjee and S.P.Gupta, the pro-British historians of India so far have disregarded all arguments against this theory.

However, some recent archeological discoveries in India, Russia and Japan have pushed back the antiquity of the Aryans to at least 6000BC and proved beyond doubt that the ancient Aryans were not nomadic tribes from central Asia but had very advanced urban civilizations. Russian archeologists and linguists also proved that the Aryans have migrated not from the Russian steppes but came to Russia via Armenia and Georgia. There are increasing evidence that India was the original home of the Aryans.

Advanced civilization of the Aryans in Chelyabinsk, Russia

President Putin has recently visited one of the most mysterious places on planet Earth - the ruins of the ancient town of Arkaim, which is situated on the outskirts of the city of Chelyabinsk. Pravda reported (on 16 July 2005) about the starling discovery of ruins of a very advanced civilization of Indo-Aryan origin, which was at least 4000 years old in Arkaim.

The Arkaim valley in the south of Ural was supposed to be flooded in 1987; local authorities were going to create a water reservoir there to irrigate droughty fields. However, scientists found strange circles in the center of the valley: the authorities gave archaeologists time to explore the area. Scientists were shocked to find out that Arkaim was the same age as Egypt and Babylon. Archaeological excavations showed that the people, who inhabited Arkaim, represented the ancient Indo-Aryan civilizations. Arkaim had not only a city, but also a temple and an astronomic observatory.

Prof. Gennady Zdanovich, the chairman of the archaeological expedition said, "We achieved what seemed to be absolutely unreal. How did people of such ancient civilization manage to accomplish incredible technological progress, which still seems to be unachievable nowadays?”

A group of Russian researchers, headed by Prof. Vadim Chernobrovy, has recently returned from the mysterious region. He said, “A flight above Arkaim on board a helicopter gives you an incredible impression. The huge concentric circles on the valley are clearly visible. The town and its outskirts are all enclosed in the circles. We still do not know what point the gigantic circles have, whether they were made for defensive, scientific, educational, or ritual purposes. Some researchers say that the circles were actually used as the runway for an ancient spaceport."

Researchers discovered that the ancient town was equipped with the storm sewage system, which helped Arkaim`s residents avoid floods. The people were protected against fires as well: timbered floorings and houses themselves were imbued with fireproof substance. It was a rather strong compound, the remnants of which can still be found in the ruins of the town.

Each house was outfitted with "all modern conveniences”, as they would say nowadays. There was a well, an oven, and dome-like food storage in every house. The well was branching out into two underground trenches: one of them was directed to the oven and the other one ended in the food storage. The trenches were used to supply chilly air to the oven and to the food storage. The cool air from the trenches was also creating a very powerful traction force in the Aryan oven, which made it possible to smelt bronze there.

The central square in Arkaim was the only object of square shape in the town. Judging upon traces of bonfires that were placed in a specific order on the square, the place was used as a site for certain rituals. Arkaim was built according to a previously projected plan as a single complicated complex, which also had an acute orientation on astronomic objects.

Prof.Grigoryev of the Institute of History and Archaeology, Ural branch of Russian Academy of Sciences, Chelyabinsk, Russia, said recently, “ There are no features of “Steppe cultures” in cultures of India and Iran. There are no Finno-Ugric borrowings in languages of Avesta and Rig Veda." According to him (1996, 1998), Ancient Aryans came originally from Iran to Russia via Syria, Anatolia, Armenia and formed the vast cities in Sintashta-Petrovka area near Chelyabinsk. Earlier linguistic experts Prof.Gamkrelidze and Prof.Ivanov (1984) confirmed that explanation.

How far is Iran from Sindh-Saraswati valley? We also know from the Purana, that Aryans were divided into two groups, Sur of India and Asura of Iran. Russian archeologists are not aware of the submarine ruins of Dwarka and Cambay yet. If they would know, it would be possible to prove what Rakhaldas Banerjee; Ramesh Chadra Mazumdar said all along that India was the origin of the ancient Aryans, who had migrated to Russia via Armenia. The discovery made by the Russian archeologists of the temple of Mithra under the basement of the world’s oldest official Christian church in Yerevan, Armenia shows that link.

Archeological Details of Arkaim in Chelyabinsk:

The site is known by the Russian archeologists for at least 70 years as Sintasha-Petrovka cultural area of ancient Aryans, but it was ignored by the Anglo-American historians. Sintashta-Petrovka cultural area runs along the eastern Urals of the Eurasian steppe for about 400 km south of Chelabyansk and to the east for about 200 km. There are 23sites recognized as belonging to this group.

The Sintashta burials, and those found at other Arkiam sites, vary greatly in detail. These burials provide archaeological evidence of the burial rituals set down in the Rig Veda and Avesta and, thus, these are called Indo-Iranian.

The sites have been called “towns” and, most of them have been discovered through aerial photography; they are laid out in round, square, or oval shapes. While only two of these “towns”, Arkaim and Sintashta, have been excavated largely, they are characterized as being fortified, having connecting houses, and having extensive evidence for metallurgy.

The excavator of Sintashta, Gening (1979), has shown that the burials from Sintashta do, how-ever, provide archaeological evidence for numerous aspects of the burial rituals set down in texts of Rig Veda and Avesta. The Avesta, was composed by Zorathustra, who attempted to erase the earlier practice of worship of God Mithra.

The dating of the Avesta is problematic, since there are disputes about the time of Zorathustra. According to Xanthus of Lydia, it was 6480BC; according to Aristotle it was 6350BC ( in Heredotus). According to Ferdowsi’s Shahnamah, it was 6600BC; according to the Roman historian Plutarch it was 6000BC.

Suppose we accept it was 6000BC, and given the fact the Rig Veda was older than Avesta, as Zorathustra has tried to erase out worships of Vedic gods in favour of only one God Asura Mazda, Aryans were in India before 6000BC.

Sintashta Culture, in which Arkaim is a part, was formed in Chelyabinsk in about 2000BC, according to the radiocarbon tests (Trifonov 1997). This culture was spread over a vast geo-graphic region from the Dnieper River in Ukraine to eastern Kazakhstan. The investigation of the metal ores was undertaken using spectral analysis. The results indicated that the ores recovered from Sintashta settlements did not contain arsenic while in contrast, slag retrieved from the same sites contained high levels of the element. However, metal structures of the Caucasus and Anatolia are similar to the metal structure of the Sintashta Culture, and the tradition of alloying during the ore smelting stage was well established in the Caucasus region.

All the features of the Syro-Anatolian cultures have parallels with the archaeological cultures of this region, the most remarkable of which are the Sintashta fortified settlements that are identical to Anatolian settlements. In addition, there are many analogies with the Sintashta Culture in the ceramics, and stone and metal artifacts of the Syro-Anatolian cultures.

This is the basis of the conclusion suggested by the Russian archeologists and linguistics (Gamkrelidze and Ivanov, 1984; Grigoryev, 1996, 1998) that the Aryans migrated from Iran to Armenia and then to Russia; Aryans never came down from Russia to India. According to them, Aryans most possibly had started migrating from Iran in 8000BC. They had reached Balkan Peninsula and Anatolia in about 6000BC and had reached Russian steppes in Chelyabinsk in about 4000BC. By that time, they had very advanced urban civilization, not at all nomadic in any way. The Indo-Europeanization of the Armenia, Georgia, Ukraine lasted for a long time, from the Neolithic to the beginning of the Iron Age. In the Middle Bronze Age Indo-Aryans came to Bulgaria, former Yugoslavia, and Greece. Russian archeologists were not aware of the Sindhu-Saraswati civilization or Dwarka. I have drawn the attention of Prof.Grigoryev to these ruins, perhaps in future he and his team will prove the migration of the Aryans had started from India, not from Iran.

Relationship with Krishna’s Dwarka:

The discoveries at Gulf of Cambay by the National Institute of Ocean Technology established, using carbon-14 date of 7,500 years for the wood samples excavated from under the sea, the existence of a civilization dating to that period.

Krishna’s Dwarka existed some 4,000 years ago. There was a rise in the sea level about 30 metres in 7,500 years, approximately at the rate of 10 metres in 3,500-3,800 years. Eroded debris and pottery provided evidence of a port town destroyed by sea about 3,500 years ago.

The marine archaeologists in India have found enough proof to assert that Mahabharata is not a myth, but history. The discovery of submerged buildings of the legendary city of Dwarka indicates that Indians were masters in town planning and maritime activity, 4,000 years ago. The rise in the sea level in Dwarka is a scientific truth. Studies have proved that the sea considerably and suddenly rose to submerge the city.

Harivamsha describes the submerging of Dwarka saying Krishna instructed Arjuna, who was then visiting Dwarka; to evacuate the residents of the city as the sea was going to engulf the city. “On the seventh day (of Krishna saying this), as the last of the citizens were leaving the city, the sea entered the streets of Dwarka.” [in ‘Search on Krishna´s Dwarka comes to a standstill’, By Vaidehi Nathan; Organiser, 2004, June20]

Ruins of Dwarka also show a very advanced civilization of at least 4000 years old, which could not be formed by semi-nomadic Aryans coming down from central Asia in 1500BC. The city originally itself could be about 6000 years old. Bankim Chandra Chatterjee in his essay ‘Is Krisna a historical figure’ (in ‘Krisna Charita’) has calculated the time of the war described in Mahavarat. According to him, the war took place in about 3700BC.

Aryan city under the sea near Japan:

Another nail was struck on the British theory of Aryan invasion in 1500BC by the discovery of ruins of a city, at least 6000 years old, under the sea near Okinawa, Japan. The original people of Japan were Indo-Aryans and the structure of the ruins has close similarities to the ancient architecture of India, Iran, and Egypt.

A unique structure was once found beneath the sea where Japan`s western most Yonaguni Island lies. In 1997, an investigation team from the University of the Ryukyus in Okinawa discovered the site. Prof. Masaaki Kimura, professor at the University of the Ryukyus, a marine geologist, said that, "We found that the ruins are at least 6000 years old. It could go back another 4000 years when we consider the length of time before they sank into the water. "

Okinawa was once connected to the Asian continent. Geologic chronology shows that the area in Yonaguni was already underwater 6000 years ago. Prof. Kimura says "During the past 10,000 years, the ocean water level rose about 40 meters. From this fact, it is only natural to think that the ancient civilization is now deep in water. All of a sudden, such an advanced civilization was discovered, so we believe there must be a lost culture before that.” (in his book "Mu Tairiku Wa Ryukyu ni Atta" or The legendary sunken continent was in the Ryukyus" published in 1997)

Marine geologists think that the lost civilization was once on ground level, but now it has sunk into the ocean. The ocean surface has risen land100 meters in the past 20,000 years.

Undersea ruins near Yonaguni Island stand 25 meters tall and 100 meters long. This megalithic structure was artificially formed. There are a number of these types of ruins off the coast of Okinawa. However, this one in Yonaguni is the largest, and the only authenticated one. The structure of the buildings are not Mongolian in character but related to the ruins of India, Middle East and Egypt.

The ancient people of Japan were not Mongolian, but Indo-Aryans; Mongolians began to migrate to Japan about 2000 years ago. The decendants of the ancient Indo-Aryans of Japan, Aino people, are still there in the northern island of Hokkaido; they have distinct Indo-Aryan physical features. Details of this lost civilizations and photos of the undersea buildings are in the website [http://www.pref.okinawa.jp/summit/tokusyu/ruins1.htm] I have mentioned this discovery to Dr. Shila Tripati of the Marine Archaeology Centre, National Institute of Oceanography in Goa. Dr.Tripati has contacted Prof.Kimura already and we hope in future their joint efforts will show the link between Cambay, Dwarka and Okinawa’s undersea ruins of very advanced civilizations of the Indo-Aryans.

Joker in the pack: Prof.D.N.Jha of Delhi University:

Given these overwhelming evidences of archeological findings in India, Russia, Japan it is surprising still the Anglo-American historians and their Indian agents are insisting that Aryans came from the central Asia in only 1500BC to India.

Prof. D.N. Jha recently wrote a book and several articles to prove that ancient semi-Nomadic Aryans, who according to him invaded India about 1500BC, used to eat beef. (in his book, The Myth of the Holy Cow, Verso, 2002). To prove his points he has committed fraud and misinterpretations.

He has quoted from Rig Veda, (VIII.43.11) as " Agni ...is one whose food is the ox and the barren cow".

This is a wrong quotation. The exact quotation should be " Let us serve Agni with our hymns, disposer, fed on ox and cow, who bears the soma on his back" (in Griffith’s translation of Rig Veda).

It does not mean ancient Aryans used to eat ox and cow, but Agni can dispose of any wealth, ox and cow used to be the symbol of wealth.

He also has quoted from Rig Veda( X.79.6) as " Cow was cut up with a sword or an axe".

This quotation is totally wrong. The exact quotation should be, " Agni, hast thou committed sin or treason among the Gods? In ignorance I ask thee, playing, not playing, he gold-hued and toothless hath cut his food up as the knife a victim"(in Griffith’s translation of Rig Veda).

It does not say anything about cutting cows or ox. Using these false quotations he has tried to prove Aryans used to eat beef. How can he reconcile to all these evidences from Chelyabinsk, Okinawa, Dwarka, and Cambay that Indo-Aryans have developed very advanced civilizations at least 7000 years ago and according to the Russian archeologists, they have migrated not from Russian steppes to India but from India to Russia via Syria, Anatolia, Armenia?

Given the very advanced technology the ancient Aryans have used in Chelyabinsk, it cannot be said that this civilization was born only 4000 years ago, but only the ruins are 4000 years old. It is probable the ancient Aryans have migrated eastwards to Japan, as there are every evidences that the Aino people, descendants of the ancient Indo-Aryans in Japan, came originally from eastern Siberia. The ruins of submarine city near Okinawa were probably developed by the same Indo-Aryans nearly 10,000 years ago.

Where does that leave the theory propagated by Max-Muller, and assorted British historians and their Indian agents like Romila Thaper, D.N.Jha, and Irfan Habib? Recently the Indian History Congress, dominated by the historians of India with slave mentality, has proposed that there should not be any archeological excavations in any of the ancient religious sites in India. Slaves are afraid of the truth.

Prof. Dipak Basu

References:

Chatterjee, Bankim Chandra, Krisna Charita, first published 1886

Gamkrelidze T.V and Ivanov, V.V, Indoevropejskil Yazak I Indo-evropejci, Tbilisi & Mouton de Gruyter-Berlin, 1984 (in Russian)

Gening, V. F, The Cemetery at Sintashta and the EarlyIndo-Iranian Peoples. Journal of Indo-European Studies 7, 1-30, 1979.

Griffith,Raplh, The Rig Veda ( translation from Sanskrit), Motilal Banarsidass, 1992

Grigoryev, S.A., The Sintashta Culture and Some Questions of Indo-European Origins, Proceedings of the Chelyabinsk Scientific Center, Vol 2, pp 82-85, 1998

Grigoryev, S.A, ‘Sintashta I Ariyaskiye Migracii’ in Novoye v Arkkheologii Yuzhnogo Urala, Chelyabinsk State University, 1996 (in Russian)

Herodotus, Books I and II. Harvard University Press (1990 reprint).

Jha, D.N, The Myth of the Holy Cow, Verso, 2002

Kimura, M, "Mu Tairiku wa Ryukyu ni Atta"( The legendary sunken continent was in the Ryukyus), Ryukyus University Press, 1997 ( in Japanese)

Nathan Vaidehi, ‘Search on Krishna´s Dwarka comes to a standstill’, 20 June, Organiser, 2004

Pravda, ‘Ancient Aryan civilization achieved incredible technological progress 40 centuries ago’, 16 July 2005

Trifonov, V. A. 1997. K absolyutnoy khronologii evro-aziatskikhkulturnykh kontaktov v epokhu bronzy. Radiouglerod I Arkheologiya 2, 94–7 (in Russian)


TOPICS: History; Society
KEYWORDS: aryaninvasion; aryans; beefitswhats4dinner; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; india; indusvalley; indusvalleyscript
Im not sure if I like it. Its got a good beat and I could dance to it...
1 posted on 06/28/2006 10:46:36 PM PDT by gnarledmaw
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To: gnarledmaw

Whacky theory.


2 posted on 06/28/2006 10:57:18 PM PDT by Defiant (MSM are holding us hostage. Vote Dems into power, or they will let the terrorists win.)
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To: gnarledmaw
Some researchers say that the circles were actually used as the runway for an ancient spaceport

I'm convinced of the credibility of this theory.
3 posted on 06/29/2006 1:46:17 AM PDT by billybudd
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To: billybudd
Some researchers say that the circles were actually used as the runway for an ancient spaceport

Sounds good. I'm sure it couldn't have been a military fortification of any sort (just as Stonehenge couldn't possibly be).

It could also be the Freemasons. They've developed time travel - and the cure for AIDS.
4 posted on 06/29/2006 1:55:52 AM PDT by Jaysun (I'm from a little place called Smithereens. It ain't pretty out here.)
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To: Defiant; blam
I posted it primarily to show that while some members of FRs archeology crew have some rather "heretical" views there are "experts" with views even more so.
5 posted on 06/29/2006 1:23:49 PM PDT by gnarledmaw (I traded freedom for security and all I got were these damned shackles.)
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To: billybudd
The way he adds the thought after more likely explanations suggests to me to be a nod of acknowledgement to someone/some group or a thought spurred by a non archeology reasoning rather than his personnal belief.

Maybe he received access to some site or grant money from someone with such a belief, maybe he is just aware that American tourists with a belief in galactic seeding could visit and make cousin Ashwatthama's/best friend Gregori's new travel tour and hotel chain very successful.

Its hard to say what hes thinking, hes too far away for a mind meld and my cogni-scanner is offline...

6 posted on 06/29/2006 1:43:34 PM PDT by gnarledmaw (I traded freedom for security and all I got were these damned shackles.)
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To: Jaysun
Myconids from Beta Brahe or not, I find our first peeks into the culture Arkaim and surrounding cities belonged to and the the area to be fascinating. Maybe it is more so personally because one of the "heresies" I believe is that the isolation of East and West to actually have been relatively recent and short lived. I see Arkaim and some other finds to be inching archeology toward that fact.
7 posted on 06/29/2006 1:56:38 PM PDT by gnarledmaw (I traded freedom for security and all I got were these damned shackles.)
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To: gnarledmaw
Professor Stephen Oppenheimer says that 50% of Europeans can trace their DNA to one man in the north Indus valley region who made their way to Europe through the Middle East. The other 50% can trace their DNA to a son of the same man who made their way to Europe through Russia a thousand years later.

I think Caucasians will eventually be traced all the way back to Sundaland.

Where Was Atlantis? Sundaland Fits The Bill, Surely!

8 posted on 06/29/2006 2:30:15 PM PDT by blam
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To: gnarledmaw

Sundaland

9 posted on 06/29/2006 2:32:16 PM PDT by blam
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To: gnarledmaw
It is fascinating. The fact that it was burned and abandoned should have told them a lot. Sintashta is intensely interesting to me.
10 posted on 06/29/2006 9:28:57 PM PDT by Jaysun (I'm from a little place called Smithereens. It ain't pretty out here.)
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To: SunkenCiv

ping


11 posted on 06/30/2006 12:07:25 AM PDT by gnarledmaw (I traded freedom for security and all I got were these damned shackles.)
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To: gnarledmaw; blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
Thanks gnarledmaw for the ping. The Hindi used to eat beef, but I just read a recent diatribe opposed to that view, saying the sacred cow has always been sacred. The Aryans destroyed the Harappan Civilization in the Indus Valley on the way in, and their ancient literature describes a nomadic people who sacked cities. This is a screwy theory.

Uh-oh. Any minute now someone will arrive and accuse me of being Anti-Hindu or something worse. I'm sweatin' now.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

12 posted on 06/30/2006 10:33:22 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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To: SunkenCiv

You're Anti-Hindu or something worse!


13 posted on 06/30/2006 10:38:57 AM PDT by ASA Vet (3.03)
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more kooky stuff, with some sensible stuff:

Ahmad Hassan Dani (Indus Valley script)
Harappa | January 6, 1998 | interviewed by Omar Khan
Posted on 08/12/2004 1:20:30 PM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1190253/posts


14 posted on 06/30/2006 10:45:09 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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To: ASA Vet

See, I just knew it. :')

Are you through with the mustard? And pass the mayo. No burger is complete without 'em...


15 posted on 06/30/2006 10:48:08 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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To: gnarledmaw
According to Ferdowsi’s Shahnamah, it was 6600BC

Shahnameh is a little tricky to use for dating anything. It's interesting for anecdotes.

16 posted on 06/30/2006 10:55:38 AM PDT by RightWhale (Off touch and out of base)
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To: blam
Sundaland is a fascinating idea. It explains so much. Thanks, Blam.
17 posted on 06/30/2006 10:57:14 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: SunkenCiv
The mustard I can provide, I have several varieties except salad mustard.
Sorry, I live alone and since men don't use mayo, the mayo got trashed when the last ex left.
18 posted on 06/30/2006 11:01:20 AM PDT by ASA Vet (3.03)
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To: Defiant; gnarledmaw

Wacky maybe not if have ever seen many from Inida being dark skin with white facial features this could explain it!


19 posted on 06/30/2006 11:11:48 AM PDT by restornu (Could Harry Reid be a descendant of King Noah? Mosiah 7-29)
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To: ASA Vet

:"P


20 posted on 06/30/2006 11:12:50 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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Significance of Mayiladuthurai find -- Links between Harappa and Neolithic Tamil Nadu
The Hindu | May 01, 2006 | T.S. Subramanian
Posted on 04/30/2006 6:01:01 PM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1624277/posts


21 posted on 06/30/2006 11:16:40 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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Parpula's two volumes of photographs covering the collections of India and Pakistan, which appeared in 1987 and 1991... and his 1994 sign list, containing 386 signs (as against Mahadevan's 419 signs), are generally recognized as fine achievements, not least by Mahadevan... This is a significant figure. It is too high for a syllabary like Linear B... and too low for a highly logographic script like Chinese. the nearest comparison... are probably the Hittite hieroglyphs with about 500 signs and Sumerian cuneiform with perhaps 600+ signs... Most scholars therefore agree that the Indus script is likely to be a logosyllabic script like its west Asian contemporaries. [pp 281-284]

These Dravidian speakers are presumably remnants of a once-widespread Dravidian culture submerged by encroaching Indo-Aryans in the 2nd millennium BC... The Indo-Aryan hymns, the Vedas... recount tales of conquest of the forts of the dark-skinned Dasa or Dasyu... the Vedas repeatedly mention the horse in their descriptions of warfare and sacrifice, and this animal was clearly a vital part of Indo-Aryan society... But there is not horse imagery at all in the Indus Valley civilization and virtually no horse remains have been found by archaeologists. Hence the Indus civilizations is unlikely to have been Indo-Aryan. [pp 290-291]
Lost Languages: The Enigma Of The Worlds Undeciphered Scripts Lost Languages:
The Enigma Of The World's Undeciphered Scripts

by Andrew Robinson

Robinson mentions "a substantial inscription found at Dholavira near the coast of Kutch in 1990, which appears to have been a kind of sign board for the city." [p 295]
Uncracked Ancient Codes
(Lost Languages reviewed)
by William C. West
Sanskrit and early Dravidian, the ancient languages of India, seem to be the keys to deciphering the highly challenging script of the Indus Valley civilization of the third millennium b.c. in what is now Pakistan and northwest India. As with other languages, a photographic corpus of drawings, a sign list and a concordance must be compiled before decipherment will be possible. Work has proceeded along these lines for inscriptions on some 3,700 objects from the Indus Valley, most of them seal stones with very brief inscriptions (the longest has only 26 characters)... Robinson's descriptions of such analysis, and his accounts of both successful and unsuccessful decoding attempts, are clear, provocative and stimulating.
One sees what one wants to
by Iravatham Mahadevan
I agree with Rajaram that it is time we put this 'horse business' behind us and look at the decipherment itself. I have done so. The Jha-Rajaram 'decipherment' is completely invalid. It is, in fact, a non-starter for the simple reason that the direction of reading adopted by the authors is wrong, as demonstrated by Witzel and Farmer (Frontline, October 13, box item at p.12). The 'decipherment' makes as much sense as you would get out of this page if you try to read it from a mirror reflection.
Of Rajaram's 'Horses', 'decipherment', and civilisational issues
by Asko Parpola
It is sad that in South Asia, as elsewhere in the world, linguistic and religious controversies are the cause of so much injustice and suffering. We should remember that from the very beginning, Aryan and non-Aryan languages and associated cultures, religions and peoples have intermingled and have become inextricably mixed. Every element of the population has contributed to the creation of Indian civilisation, and every one of them deserves credit for it.
Deciphering the Indus Script Early Tamil Epigraphy from the Earliest Times to the Sixth Century A.D.
Deciphering the Indus Script
by Asko Parpola
Early Tamil Epigraphy
from the Earliest Times
to the Sixth Century A.D.

by Iravatham Mahadevan


22 posted on 06/30/2006 11:21:32 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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To: gnarledmaw
Uh, yeah, the date is not for two days. It's the issue date. :')
Cloning History, Marxian Style
by Dr S.P. Gupta
July 02, 2006
Commenting on it the expert committee while quoting Man and Environment, 1994 Volume XIX, Nos. 1-2) says, "That, beef eating was widely practiced in early India is widely accepted and has been mentioned by various historians, not just non-Indian historians. Among the most respected historians who wrote on this theme are Rajendra Lala Mitra, whose The Indo Aryans (1891) has a chapter on the prevalence of this practice, and P.V. Kane, whose Definitive History of Dharmasastra also cited passages concerning beef eating and cow slaughter. Additionally, the literary and archaeologist evidence for beef eating was discussed by the most wellknown archaeologist of post-Independence India, H.D. Sankalia (Seminar, 93, 1967). Since then, two other Indian archaeologists, P.K. Thomas and P.P. Joglekar, have summarized the data on cattle bones that are found at archaeological sites in India and have drawn attention to the substantial contribution of cattle in the form of meat, apart from their uses as draught animals and in agricultural operations."
The defense against the generally accepted idea of ancient Indians eating cattle is one worthy of Bill Clinton.
23 posted on 06/30/2006 11:27:23 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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To: gnarledmaw

Wish there were some arial photos.


24 posted on 06/30/2006 1:07:42 PM PDT by Dustbunny (Amazing Grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me)
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To: Dustbunny
"Wish there were some arial photos."

Aerial photos would be nice too. (Ahem)

25 posted on 06/30/2006 1:15:25 PM PDT by blam (Monthly Donors Are Happier FReepers)
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To: blam
Geeze..... LOL.... proves I should never type when in the throws of a migraine.

Now I need to go lie down.

26 posted on 06/30/2006 1:20:16 PM PDT by Dustbunny (Amazing Grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me)
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To: restornu
Uh, no. What explains dark skin and European features is that Indo-Europeans conquered India about 2500 years ago. The archaeological, historical and linguistic evidence makes the sequence of events quite clear. Indo-European cultures did not come from India, they spread from wherever they originated (which is still the subject of debate, but probably central asia) via several migrations. The tribes that made it to India got there by way of Persia first, hence the similarity between "Aryan" and "Iranian" tribes. There were offshoots that went south, through Anatolia and thence to Greece and southern Europe, and that went North, to spawn the German, Russian and Celtic civilizations.

Trust me, this theory is whacky. But not whackier than Scientology or Islam, and lots of people believe that, too.

27 posted on 06/30/2006 1:51:31 PM PDT by Defiant (MSM are holding us hostage. Vote Dems into power, or they will let the terrorists win.)
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To: SunkenCiv
accuse me of being Anti-Hindu or something worse

Now what are you Harappan about? What a halva way to start an otherwise fine weekend. What are you, cous-cous?

Would you care to explain your beef with the Hindus more fully?

You won't curry any flavors around here with that sweet-sour attitude.

28 posted on 06/30/2006 2:03:19 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Deportacion por los todos ilegales ahora: Si, se puede!)
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To: gnarledmaw

It fits the timeline for the flooding of the Black Sea.


29 posted on 06/30/2006 2:04:06 PM PDT by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: gnarledmaw

I thought the scientific community had generally concluded that Yonaguni is a natural formation.


30 posted on 06/30/2006 2:47:09 PM PDT by Graymatter
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To: Dustbunny
Wish there were some arial photos.

Coding style sheets lately?

31 posted on 06/30/2006 3:14:00 PM PDT by dread78645 (Evolution. A doomed theory since 1859.)
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To: dread78645

See post 26.


32 posted on 06/30/2006 4:20:55 PM PDT by Dustbunny (Amazing Grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me)
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To: SunkenCiv
Mayo on a burger?

That is heresy!

33 posted on 06/30/2006 4:24:25 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (The bottom 60% does 40% of the work, the top 40% does 60% of the work. Just who are the "workers"?)
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To: ASA Vet
Sorry, I live alone and since men don't use mayo, the mayo got trashed when the last ex left.

Plbththt! Mayo is a guy thing... blech!

34 posted on 06/30/2006 5:28:50 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Not Mayo.......MIRACLE WHIP!
It's what real men eat.


35 posted on 06/30/2006 5:37:43 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Defiant

Where do the Slavic tribes fit in w/that?


36 posted on 06/30/2006 5:44:25 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: gnarledmaw

From what I've seen, archeology $ heresy are common bedfellows. Sone day, many centureies in the future, cheeseheads, Mickey Mouse ears & "Precious Moments" figurines will share a single common purpose... Some distant (timewise) archeologist will determine they are/were items of worship, cuz we all know that the people of the past were more "'simple" & superstious.


37 posted on 06/30/2006 6:03:09 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: GoLightly

When I said "Russian" I should have said "slavic". The Slavs entered history a little later than the Germans, originating near the Russia/Ukraine area, but spreading down into the Balkans after the fall of the Roman Empire, displacing Greek, Roman and Germanic populations.


38 posted on 06/30/2006 6:44:55 PM PDT by Defiant (MSM are holding us hostage. Vote Dems into power, or they will let the terrorists win.)
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To: gnarledmaw

This is old news.It is still interesting.India does seem to have cast a long shadow.


39 posted on 06/30/2006 7:06:00 PM PDT by after dark (I love hateful people. They help me unload karmic debt.)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Mustard, mayo, nickel slice of raw.


40 posted on 06/30/2006 8:00:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

I knew I liked you. :')


41 posted on 06/30/2006 8:00:17 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006.)
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To: Dustbunny
Go to Google, click Images, type "arkaim" then [Enter]. You will get dozens of...

and


42 posted on 06/30/2006 10:46:58 PM PDT by gnarledmaw (I traded freedom for security and all I got were these damned shackles.)
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To: SunkenCiv
You'll like this even better: The Archeoburger:

Roman Meal buns;
Ground buffalo patty;
Greek olives, sliced, for the Classical touch;
Bronze lettuce;
Green Goddess (That color gives it the right patina);
Ancient Heritage Dairy's "Heritage Blue" cheese, crumbled into the dressing;
Hebrew National deli mustard;
'Aztec' Tomato (an heirloom variety) slices;
'Excaliber' onion slices;

Assemble burger, don your toga, pour a flagon of your favorite ancient-recipe beer, and enjoy.
43 posted on 07/01/2006 11:04:00 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Deportacion por los todos ilegales ahora: Si, se puede!)
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To: gnarledmaw

Wow, thank you.


44 posted on 07/01/2006 12:33:25 PM PDT by Dustbunny (Amazing Grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me)
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To: Fred Nerks

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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45 posted on 06/11/2010 2:59:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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