Listening to the Wrong Voices, 2006 Election and Christianity

ConservativeImage.com ^ | 11/10/6 | RedFox

[conservativeimage.com]

Hannity, Rush, Prager, Hewitt, and Savage are saying the same thing. Republicans lost because they weren’t conservative enough. Does that make sense? The conservative base voted for liberals because the Republicans weren’t extreme enough? So Michael Savage with his hard core, uncompromising conservative principles was right all along? I don’t buy that completely. One thing more frightening than becoming a minority is that Michael Savage was right.

This explanation is almost insulting. It implies that Americans were willing to throw the entire conservative agenda because their conservative principles were not being met to the proper degree. The conservative ideas being blamed are spending, illegal immigration, the RHINO’s compromise on the Democrat’s filibuster, the president’s inability to confront false accusations, etc. However these problems are finite compared to the War On Terror and are not worth throwing away our majority. This doesn’t explain what happened.

The national deficit was on a 5 year low. Unemployment was at a ridiculously low level despite Hurricane Katrina. The immigration and border fence process was finally moving. We finally got 2 conservative Supreme Court judges. We had tax cuts. We had terrorist surveillance, the Patriot Act, and a growing missile defense. Iraq was self ruling with a non-theocratic, representative democracy, constitution, and a growing military.

Yes, the Supreme Court and Senate were granting Habeas Corpus and Geneva Convention rights to terrorists, and the Congress wasn’t pressing charges on the New York Times for leaking top secret information. But that’s not what this election was about, at least not that I know of. I wasn’t listening to the left. Maybe that’s what my problem was, but I doubt Democrats ran against Republicans on these points. And these are not good enough reasons to hand the liberals control. This still doesn’t explain our loss, even though that’s what my conservative radio sources are saying.

I know nobody gets Hugh’s rope-a-dope approach to debate. I’ve been listening to Hugh since 9/11 and I finally realized what his strategy was at Thanksgiving 2005 with his 12 questions for liberal relatives at family reunions. So many times before, Hugh would let a caller answer with a lie and move on to the next question. And I would yell at the radio, “Call them on that!” It took me 5 years and an explanation from Hugh for me to get it.

Apparently the rope-a-dope has also been a strategy of President Bush’s, but people can’t see through the nuances of this strategy. Americans are blunt and want to see strait forward confrontation, Savage style. President Bush was too long unresponsive to false accusations. But they have stuck for the same reason I think Republicans lost. And here’s my point: too many conservatives are listening to the wrong voices (LIBERAL TV NEWS) and believing them.

That’s the best explanation I can think of, and it beats the ‘scandal and conservative principles’ argument. I avoid and ignore liberal voices, which is why I knew exactly how to vote. I was not distracted by the Foley or Haggard scandals. Over spending did not compete in my mind with the War On Terror in Iraq. And I was not convinced by the lies about Iraq coming from the Hippy News Media. I was with Hugh who said that any vote for any Democrat is a vote to abandon Iraq, impeach Bush, and stop conservative judges as well as the entire conservative agenda. This is why the ‘lack of conservative principles’ argument doesn’t explain the Republican loss.

According to the election results, Americans don’t care about liberal judges, higher taxes, or the War On Terror. I was confident that Americans knew better than to believe the illusion of the liberal media and Democrat candidates who ran pretending to be conservative. We lost because we’re listening to the wrong voices. MSM hates the military, they hate moral leaders, they hate cops, they hate Christians, they hate conservative values. Why do we listen to them? Why do we read their stuff? We should know better. We need to start listening to sources that are sympathetic with our world view, and reject the opinion of those who are hostile to what we believe.

Conservatives, (Christians,) are not going to change society through politics or elections. Christians will now only change the political, moral direction of society by getting people saved. Once people are changed through salvation, they will begin to think right, vote right, and ignore the wrong voices.

Christians are not going to accomplish this by operating like we have in the past, through passionless, unconvincing, powerless, proofless, religious words. There is a resentment for religion in America, and it is well deserved. America needs to experience the real presence and miraculous power of God, and average Christians today do not have that. We need that same thing that was on Jesus where he didn’t have to chase people around with the truth. All he had to do was make eye contact with an oppressed person and their hearts would instantly break. It was the Holy Spirit who made that possible. We can have that too, because Jesus said He would pour His Spirit on all flesh and we would do the same works that He did.

To get an observable presence and power of God, we need to pursue the presence of God ourselves, (its called prayer and worship,) and quit the habitual sins (Foley & Haggard) we use to fill the emptiness and wounds in our souls. Those wounds were created through cruelty, frustration, and disappointment. They can only be filled and eventually healed with the presence of God, and not only once a week at a church that doesn’t preach the full gospel.

Its hard work, that’s why we don’t do it. But will our nation survive any other way? This is the diagnosis of what happened 2006, and the prescription to heal our land.

Pursue the presence of God.

Quit habitual sin.

Get the observable power and presence of God.

Win souls.

Saved minds think right, vote right, and ignore the wrong voices.

Moral and political direction is corrected.

By Heaven, my Godly values will be reinforced

by my choice of counsel, (conservative political talk radio.)

Red Fox,

ConservativeImage.com

2006

[cripplecreek]

People who think the GOP needs to become more "centrist" should save us all a lot of trouble and become democrats.

[My2Cents]

One thing more frightening than becoming a minority is that Michael Savage was right.

Ditto.

[xcamel]

Try this:

"The MSM et al is the Chinese water torture designed specifically to dull the conservative common sense, like a virulent virus of mental illness creeping into every crevasse of society, drowning out reason, clouding reality, and replenishing the agar of socialist intent.

[My2Cents]

Conservatives, (Christians,) are not going to change society through politics or elections. Christians will now only change the political, moral direction of society by getting people saved. Once people are changed through salvation, they will begin to think right, vote right, and ignore the wrong voices.

My wife and I, along with another couple, have been praying for the president, for our other political leaders, the nation, the war on terror, our troops, the SCOTUS nominees, etc., for over 6 years now (we meet weekly to pray, sometimes twice or three times a week as we draw close to an election). After Tuesday's results, we got together Wednesday night, and agreed that what America needs isn't so much the victory of a political ideology, but a spiritual renewal. What we need isn't the victory of conservatism as a political ideology, but revival. The problems in the world are not political, but spiritual. We will still pray for Pres. Bush, our leaders, the WOT, and the like, but the focus of our prayers will now switch to the need for the outpouring of God's Spirit on the nation, and the need for revival. If America experiences another Great Awakening like in the days of Edwards, all the problems will right themselves.

[My2Cents]

Great line. True.

[My2Cents]

BTW, Red, thanks for posting this. It confirms that God's Spirit is moving and convicting His people of the same thing. The Republicans may be leaderless, but the Kingdom of God is not.

[ladyinred]

The national deficit was on a 5 year low. Unemployment was at a ridiculously low level despite Hurricane Katrina. The immigration and border fence process was finally moving. We finally got 2 conservative Supreme Court judges. We had tax cuts. We had terrorist surveillance, the Patriot Act, and a growing missile defense. Iraq was self ruling with a non-theocratic, representative democracy, constitution, and a growing military.

True, and as this article concludes, people didn't even know this for the most part because they listened to the lies of the liberal media instead. Shame on all of them.

[ladyinred]

I could not agree more, but I must tell you this isn't a popular opinion. I have never thought you could legislate morality, or good sense.

[unspun]

Getting people saved is about communicating the Gospel and by infusing all of life, including civic life, with its truth.

Either one aids the other.

[unspun]

I have never thought you could legislate morality, or good sense.

There's that obfuscating phrase again, "you can't legislate morality."

All of legislation is inherently and in effect, going about the business of determining morality.

We should stop promulgating that misleading phrase and instead say, "we don't try to legislate belief."

[roses of sharon]

Bump!

[HoosierHawk]

All of legislation is inherently and in effect, going about the business of determining morality.

I may be taking this phrase out of context, but are you saying that legislators determine society's moral standards?

[My2Cents]

I agree. But as people of faith, I think we have largely neglected the one thing we bring to the table that nobody else can -- spiritual weapons to fight the spirital battles that mascarade as political battles. I'm all in favor of precinct walking, GOTV efforts, registration drives, and the like (and each election I involve myself in these efforts), but it seems that God has given us resources to combat evil that the RNC will never be able to put into play -- the power of prayer, spiritual discernment, the authority of the name of Christ, and for our part we need to be utilizing the spiritual resources the church has to fight these battles.

I know an increasing number of Christians have been called to a ministry of intercession for the nation, but I can tell you from experience that when you call a prayer meeting before an election, only about 1% show up, if that. After the election of 2000, we called friends together to pray as the vote counts in Florida progressed. All told, we probably had 16 people who met with us in our livingroom to pray (not all at one time, but over the course of the next five weeks a total of 16 people met with us for prayer on various evenings -- and we opened our home up for prayer every evening until the recount mess was over). Out of those 16 people, only four continued to pray for the nation once Bush was declared the winner. After 9/11, we had a spike of about three or four other people, but after a few weeks, they fell away again. People think Haggard was a scandal, but the church is 100% full of people who struggle with things in life, who fall, but who, hopefully, experience redemption in Christ. The real scandal is that God has given us spiritual resources and riches in Christ that Christians don't walk in. Pray is effective, and it's our primary weapon -- that and worship -- against the forces of darkness. And Christians are walking through this world without using that weapon.

As long as Christians want to fight these battles with only the eyes and the tools of the world, we won't be effective. Use the tools of the world, but use them in concert with prayer.

[unspun]

I may be taking this phrase out of context, but are you saying that legislators determine society's moral standards?

They enact society's standards. They give society its teeth, for ill or good, accurately or otherwise.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

It may not be in God's plan to save every soul in America. Maybe not even a majority of them. What shall we say then? Can't help you out Jews. Can't help you out atheists. Can't help you out kids. Can't help you out anyone. We have no justice for anyone but ourselves!

The church is a disaster and christians can't seem to recognize God's truths themselves much of the time. We need to recognize and prioritize that problem. We can't share a gospel we don't recognize. But I am also going to keep hating evil and expressing moral outrage when teenagers are solicitied for sex by dirty old congressmen or kindergardeners are taught "gay is okay" by the government, when suicide bombers kill a bunch of Israelis or some tyrant like Saddam oppresses his people while giving aid to terrorists, when 3,000 people are murdered in New York, or when unborn children are slaughtered, or when common sense it assaulted with this redefinition of marriage stuff. I won't wait for everyone to get saved. The truth is still the truth whether they repent or they do not.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I have never thought you could legislate morality, or good sense.

You cannot legislate morality in the sense that you cannot change a heart through legislation. But you had better legislate some morality or there will be no restraint on the appetites of man and it will be the weak and the young and the inexperienced who become victims of those lacking restraint.

It takes both. But I can read the signs. Between those giving up and those veering off, we are just going to have to crash. Let me ask you this. With that praying (that's great), how many people have you shared the gospel with? They won't get saved if they never hear the truth no matter how often you pray. Show God your faith through action.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Getting people saved is about communicating the Gospel and by infusing all of life, including civic life, with its truth. Either one aids the other.

Exactly. Thank you.

[unspun]

The most beautiful thing to behold, left in this world.

[Emmett McCarthy]

I'm becoming convinced that Bush wanted to lose the republican mahority in the House because they stood in the way of his idiotic amnesty plan. I went against my inclinations to sit this one out and let the republicans get their butts kicked. I went out and voted, but I think Bush "threw the fight".

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Basically what you are saying is what the Bible say, ( For evil to triumph, is for good ( righteous, Godly ) men to do nothing )

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Christian conservatives who preach the evils of "legislating morality" see the primary goal of legislation as changing people. Those who see the necessity of legislating some morality (not all) see it as protecting those who would be victimized. It appalls me that some would hold back their interest in offering these protections in the name of the gospel. To me that defiles and reduces the gospel and causes me to lose respect for the messenger. But to them, I am trying to do the impossible because without changing the perps heart, it is hopeless to change his action. They are right in some ways, wrong in others. Crime rates rise and fall with changes in legislation. It makes some difference. The criminal needs Christ, no question. His only hope for freedom from sin is through the gospel. But if he rejects the gospel and his heart never changes, we owe it to the potential victims to at least try and restain him, and if he is not restrained, then lock him up or something.. Bring justice. Abortion and corrupting the minds of children with sexual perversity should be crimes.

It also appears that the theologizing of politics lends itself to indifference because the victim, being a sinner too, has no right to complain. To me, although everyone is born a sinner, still you can corrupt the mind and morals of a child by introducting perverse ideas, and when you do that you dull his conscience and hinder him from every understanding his moral guilt before God. So like you said, the two things aid each other. I am personally more interested in saving the soul of that child who would be a victim than in saving the perp who is already far gone. Fill the kid with rage and hand him injustice, dull his conscience at the hand of the government by teaching that good is evil and evil is good, and he is going to be much harder to reach.

Recognizing the reason for the division doesn't resolve it. Between those withdrawing and those turning liberal....all I can say is, hide your kids.

The up side is that God may choose to bring revival. I guess if we have forgotten what the gospel means AND what the Constitution means, better to fix the first if you can't have both.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Yes. But once they triumph, here is the plan:

Pr 28:12 - When the righteous triumph, there is great elation; but when the wicked rise to power, men go into hiding.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

BTW, here is the source of your quote -- still true:

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." — Edmund Burke, English statesman and political philosopher (1729-1797)

[unspun]

The up side is that God may choose to bring revival. I guess if we have forgotten what the gospel means AND what the Constitution means, better to fix the first if you can't have both.

Yes, thanks for the explorations. Reminds me of John Adams' words:

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.”

[George W. Bush]

The national deficit was on a 5 year low.

I think this paragraph is just insanely tendentious.

During the Xlinton era, in his first term spending rose by about 4.5% and in his second about 3.5%. In the first Bush term, spending rose 19%. More than twice Xlinton's increases in half the time.

It's just bizarre to somehow pretend that conservatives or anyone else likes what they've done.

Stuff like Bridge To Nowhere always make the voters unhappy, no matter which party does them.

These older articles talk about it. And it got much worse since then.

Reason: Bush the Budget Buster

Cato: 'Conservative' Bush Spends More than 'Liberal' Presidents Clinton, Carter

[smalltownslick]

I have never thought you could legislate morality, or good sense.

Of course - that is so perfect. I have long felt the same thing - you cannot legislate morality. Change must come from the heart, not the law. All you can do is change your own heart first, then do everything you can to bring others to Christ - one soul at a time. May seem slow, but it's the only real change we'll ever have.

[conservativeimage.com]

After 9/11, my prayer was that America would return to favor with God; not homosexuals and abortionsist, but the church. The 2004 reelection of Bush seemed like evidence that we were moving in that direction. The president was reelected despite 7 months of negative coverage of Iraq by the MSM. What happened this election just blew me away.

I've had this one on my car for a month now:

Its good to find that strangers out there are praying like me. We've been pushing hard to see God move here in Denver since January. What will happen will be so fantastic, we will be seeing teenagers in church on the floor crying under the power of God, "I never knew Jesus could be like this!" We've been seeing an new appetite in America for the supernatural - witness the haunting investigation shows on TV.

Check out this site cityprayer.com They're seeing crime fall statisticly through prayer.

[conservativeimage.com]

In the first Bush term, spending rose 19% compared to Clinton's 4.5% or 3.5%

Clinton didn't have 9/11 or hurricane Katrina. What I'm saying is explaining the Republican loss with the spending argument isn't worth quitting the entire conservative agenda. That's just saying if conservatives don't get 110% of what they want, they give up completely. That doesn't make sense.

[uptoolate]

Pulled this off an article posted on the Constitution Party website:

...People may complain about the unresponsiveness of their elected officials, and their subservience to their peers and superiors, but nothing will alter this fact other than a change in the faith of the electorate and the elected. Men will respond to and obey the dominant power in their lives, faith, and perspective. If that dominant power or god in their lives is the State, they will react to it. If, however, it is the triune God of Scripture who rules them, then men will respond to and obey His law-word. Men will obey their gods.

[conservativeimage.com]

On legislating morality, I'm not talking about imposing the equivalent of Sharia law or a theocracy. The onces who are introducing something new are the ones who want to legislate homosexuality, drug abuse, abortion, etc. We continue to watch the line of what is publically acceptable being pushed further and further back since the '60s. When we as a nation by the people recognize as legitimate what God has cursed, whether we do those things personally or not, that guilt comes on all of us. I don't want to force religion down people's throat. But I do expect people to behave decently and not force their sin down my country's throat.

[conservativeimage.com]

Back to conservative basics bumper stickers.

[George W. Bush]

...explaining the Republican loss with the spending argument isn't worth quitting the entire conservative agenda.

I didn't say it was all of it. But there was a lot of disgust with it. Add in the Foley and Abramoff stuff. Toss in the lack of visible progress in Iraq, the border mess, and the sixth-year restlessness of the voters. You get the results we saw the other day.

Without scandal or wild spending, we might have held Congress.

We gave them too many reasons not to like us.