Skip to comments.Ron Paul's Fair Weather Friends
Posted on 11/30/2007 4:33:59 AM PST by davenalle
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Ron Paul - the MoveOn.org candidate.
Ron Paul gives the Image that CNN and Democrats want to Portray for all Conservatives.
I think Paul’s support is beginning to fall off.
ACORN staffers (a communist front group) are also signing on to be Paulestinians to help put a monkey wrench in the GOP primaries.
Now this is a fair and reasoned anti-Paul commentary. Not the BS that we see on FR of “Paul is the ant-Christ”, or how he’s just no damned good.
You worthless Paul haters on this site could learn something from this writer. After seeing the reactions to Dr. Paul on FR, I’m completely in agreement with Bill O’Reilly that the haters on the right are every bit as dangerous as George Soros and moveon.org, if not more so, at least to me. To this point, I’ve felt that the people who basically share my ideas were reasonable and genuine in their concern for America, but my support of Dr. Paul has shown me that the far right is only concerned with power acquisition just as the far left is.
Ron Paul, Hillary’s hope for a third party win.
I like the tone af the article and can respect the author’s uncomfortableness with the concerns he raises.
It sounds to me like the author is concerned that unless those supporting Paul are in 100%, or even75%-90% agreement, with him on the issues than his candidacy should be suspect.
I don’t think that is a criticism that should hold any water. What candidate could pass that kind of test?
I am convinced that if Paul were elected President he would govern according to the same ideals he has held all throughout his career of public service. If the Lefties want to support Paul because of his stand on the war then good for them. They’ll also be helping to elect a man that will be against everything else they desire in a government.
I don’t have a problem with that.
Racists want to support Paul? Liberals want to support Paul? CTers want to support Paul?
Good, let them because in supporting Paul they are unwittingly supporting the candidate who will do the most to promote policies antithetical to them.
Ping for the lists.
There are things I like about Ron Paul but I’ve been watching politics for far too long to have any illusions that he will win the white house. As things stand now, all he’s doing is helping to insure the worst of both parties will win their nominations.
Even in the wildest fantasy that he actually ended up in the white house he would still be powerless. Both parties would isolate him and render him totally impotent as a president.
Incrementalism got us into the mess we’re in and wildly swinging a baseball bat isn’t going to get us out. It will take someone who can at least work with his own party to get us back on the right path.
I honestly think he'd be more of a hindrance to Hillary.
Ron Paul appeals to the fringe, which tends to vote left.
A fine collection of supporters he's drawing together, united by contempt for the GOP, each with their own peculiar individual hatreds. All of which must be overlooked, of course.
Ron Paul is doing amazingly well in fundraising, and it is ironic that the very people who decry the conspiracy minded 9-11 Truthers themselves fantasize the machinations of George Soros as Paul's hidden money source. The fact remains that all polls show Paul in single digits, and, more significantly, over half of potential GOP voters in at least one state have a negative opinion of him. His negatives far outweigh those of the two arch-Yankee RINOs in the race, Giuliani and Romney. George Stefanopoulos was right when he told Ron Paul during an interview that he would bet every dollar he had that Paul would lose. (Even a liberal can be correct occasionally!)
However, his campaign has introduced thousands of young people who are inclined leftward to the benefits of laissez faire economics and limited government. These are people who are culturally incompatible with the GOP base and with traditional conservative ideology. Frankly, evangelical Christians, a group to which I belong, have drifted too far toward support of big government and social welfare schemes, baptized as "faith-based initiatives." Republicans in general who were quick to condemn the big government schemes of Clinton stood by as Bush introduced his own statist programs like No Child Left Behind and Medicare Part D.
To the extent Paul can shift the domestic agenda of the GOP away from liberalism with a "family friendly" facade and back to its limited government, low tax roots and can attract new converts to laissez faire economics and minimalist governance, he will benefit the conservative cause.
Oh, so you're assessing people's worth now?
We might take your childish insults more seriously if there weren't so many Paul Cultists on FR whose posts read more like something you'd expect to see on DU or DailyKOS.
I haven’t seen such an entertaining bunch since Lyndon LaRouche was out on bail.
In 1939 American Communists and American supporters of Hitler both united in an antiwar movement.
Nazis and Communists obviously had some fundamental ideological disagreements, but they were united in their desire for the USA to shrink from the world stage and allow murderous ideologies to rage unchecked across Europe and Asia.
Today, MoveOn.org, the 9/11 Truth Movement and the National Alliance unite in support of Ron Paul, ignoring their ideological differences to make common cause against their common enemy: the United States.
Kind of along the lines of what I'd expect to see at a Star Trek convention.
Or the Star Wars Cantina.
It's not hidden at all: George Soros is passionately and openly opposed to the US presence in Iraq.
Ron Paul is also passionately and openly opposed to the US presence in Iraq.
George Soros is the man behind MoveOn.org. That's a matter of public knowledge.
MoveOn.org openly cosponsors Ron Paul meetups on meetup.com. That's also quite public.
It makes sense that people with such openly declared common interests would work together.
This isn't mysterious speculation or conspiracy mongering: it's a quite public and open collaboration.
One leftist poster over on RonPaulForums & several meetup pages justifies his support for Paul by saying that in order to move the agenda he believes in forward, they have to tear down the 'establishment'... conspiracy seems to unite the left to Paul.
I do not want to test that theory.
Wow, just a couple of posts before the CFR bogeyman popped his head out.
Claiming RP is aligned with every organization that finds something in his message to their liking isn't any more valid than holding up Rick Warren, et al as proof that evangelicals are Hillary's core constituency.
That would be ACORN, the group indicted in 11 states for election fraud and so far (I believe) convicted in 4. The group which spearheads Democrat party efforts to register fraudulent voters and buy votes in a number of states.
Some good points, but I still don’t get how these ‘culturally incompatible’ people are able to overlook Paul’s stand on abortion, prayer in schools and other issues which are absolutely anathema to them.
I just find it hard to understand people acting completely against every one of their other beliefs just because Paul is anti-war. It makes me suspicious of their motivations.
The way I see it, Paul’s best real shot to guide the country in the right direction is to be picked by one of the more mainstream candidates as a running mate.
His value in that role is going to be seriously impacted by whether his support is seen as real and durable, and right now it doesn’t look like he’d draw any real votes from outside the normal GOP base in a general election.
That's very true, whether 21st century America or simply the GOP they have a common enemy which needs to be torn down. Nowhere near as effective though.
Keep watching here.
They are able to spin Paul's record to be 'all things to all people'.. Abortion and Border Security are two of the best examples.
Border Security- http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=23513
It is really funny to watch over there when there is a heated discussion on a topic here because sometimes you can see posters rush over there brainstorming how to 'sell it' or spin it.
All true, Tiejras, but aside from the war issue, Paul and Soros disagree on just about everything else.
Is the war in Iraq the ONLY thing which matters to Americans?
I submit that it shouldn’t even be first on their list of concerns. It’s already winding down and the cost will decline as we move to a much smaller long-term presence there.
Economic and social issues are going to be more in the forefrunt in the next administration, and Paul and Moveon.org have ZERO common ground in those areas.
So what are they really up to?
Not sure if you remember the whole HSW thing from the 2000 and 2004 election, but the left has a stated and practiced strategy of infiltrating the Right and getting us so pissed off at each other over small differences that it causes enough people to sit out that it swings the election.
While Paul has a wonderful collection of soundbites on other issues, most or undoeable and there's no planning to back any of them up. So they can be ignored. Paul has acknowledged this on several occasions.
All of his ideas were rooted in the Constitution, Paul said. But he recognizes that some -- like eliminating the IRS, and returning all funding of education to the states -- are unlikely to be achieved as president. So he said hed focus on the one area a president has more leverage -- foreign policy.
Very simply, we can come up with a program of saying mind our own business, bring our troops home, have a strong national defense, he said. At the same time, be stronger and wealthier, save this money, take care of the people that are needy, follow the Constitution, protect personal liberty, have a prosperous economy.
Asked later by a student how he would withdraw troops, Paul said the sooner the better, but that it would likely take three to six months. Just announcing that we were gonna leave, and that we were serious," he said, "I think there would be a de facto peace agreement."
If you want the troops out immediately, from the Persian Gulf, Japan, Korea, Europe as well, he's the man and he'll do it. No other candidate will. Concern about eliminating the IRS or federal aid to education, not a concern at all because he won't do it.
He's a one issue candidate, steeped soundbites to please any group.
Good post, I was trying to find that quote. It pretty much kills the ‘he is right on everything but the war’ issue if that is the only thing he really is running on.
Certainly Paul’s position on abortion and several other issues where he just defaults to a states right stance is very well suited to being all things to all people, and it’s basically a cop-out non position.
As for what they’re really up to, this kind of ties in to the recent discussion of democratic plants at the CNN/YouTube debates. That’s an example of what they’re willing to do to screw up the GOP primary, and I think their support of Paul is too.
Now whether they want to discredit him by their presence, or throw off the results in the primary by supporting him is up for debate.
Literally Pimping for (Ron) Paul
To those who enter into Hof's establishment and declare that "I'm pimping for Paul," Hof will bequeath the services of two bunnies for the price of one. Or double whatever they choose to partake of there. Some of you know the drill.
Two hookers for the price of one, or double one's services, whatever that is. You can't make this stuff up.
There have been accusations that Soros is laundering funds going to Paul, much as Asian and Asian-American businessmen are accused of laundering funds to Hillary Clinton through low paid workers who donate hundreds of dollars to her campaign. I don't see where he could be forging tens of thousands of names. Given the hostility to the Paul campaign in the GOP establishment, anyone engaged in financial misdeeds would be prosecuted in a New York minute and, if guilty, would do long and hard jail time, definitely not in the sort of minimum security facility that Martha Stewart stayed in. If any money laundering is occurring, the operatives are extremely foolish.
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“There are accounts that confrontations have become heated at some of these meetups, particularly the one held in Las Vegas earlier this month.”
lol, well i can attest to this meeting as I was at it. About 1/3rd of the people there were Ron Paul supporters, the room was overflowing packed as the regular republican crowd was unused to this many new people. We just missed the election of one of our members as treasurer by a few votes. The election rules were voted down, due to objections by ourselves and others. Unfortunately, there are some Ron Paul supporters who view ‘everything GOP’ with suspicion and even disdain, but I’d say this is a minority. All of the RP supporters there were registered republicans (new or old) and in fact, there were many in the regular crowd who were Ron Paul supporters too. It is amazing the power the ron paul groups can have if they unite and attend some of these local county gop meetings.
Reactions from the ‘old gaurd’ ranged from happiness we were there and participating and hope we would stay around after the election, to equal suspicion. Some folks there run it more as a social club than anything. The fact is both groups want fair elections but hopefully we can overcome this unease and get this accomplished.
I suspect this mixing with Ron Paul groups and the new blood being injected into the republican party is on display all over the country. The Republican party is growing one direction, towards freedom and dying off elsewhere. They would be wise to welcome the RPers into the fold to grow and advance the party and increase freedom and repeal socialism in the united states.
You can view more of what happened in vegas at the las vegas ron paul meetup site, there is much discussion of this on our forum there.
Don't overlook it at all. I have complete, utter, absolute, (fill in the blank) contempt for a party that used to advocate limited small government and personal responsibility for the citizens of the respective states. It's been hijacked by interventionist busybodies who believe they know better for the world and everyone in it then we ourselves do. And by God they're going to tell us how to live, by force or over taxation.
What you are overlooking, purposefully of course, is that what many of these 'leftists' hate Junior for (i.e. not enough money for government programs) or any other group is that they're not going to get anything. Whether they realize it or think there would be enough support in Congress to override President Paul I don't know. But they won't get squat.
I OTOH am quite aware what I would get from a Paul administration. Absolutely nothing. And perhaps a little disturbing joy to watch the whining as program after program disappears and the citizens of the respective states realize the feeding trough is closed. For good. Not a single program forwarded, not a promise to help this group or that group, nothing. The only thing I would see is an eventual increase in my paycheck as taxes fall to a minimum since they would not be supporting this behemoth called the US government
FReepers have completely adopted left-wing tactics by responding to garbage as fact.
I think you're smoking crack. Paul just crossed $10 million dollars in fundraising for the 4Q today.
“Ron Paul and his flaming antiwar spam monkeys can Kiss my Ass!!”- Jim Robinson, Sept, 30, 2007
As to the utter contempt for the GOP, it's a position of pure arrogance when held by those who take the position it, like the nation, has been "hijacked", an act of force. Time for those "Republicans" to leave.
Re-read the Constitution. Eliminating the IRS & education has to originate from Congress. I guarantee you that Paul will work harder to see that they're eliminated than all previous Presidents combined.
Right, he only say he won't do it, but he really will.
And I have EEE's word on it.
I'll give you this, it is possible he will do something as you suggest, and was just lying to his then current audience, a school, where eliminating the IRS and the Dept of Education wouldn't be popular.
In which case he's simply a liar.
Then why did you respond and continue to respond?
Thanks for the admission. This is something to note when we hear about 'massive' turnout for Paul.
Doesn't need it, he'll have a mandate from voters & there won't be any of this partisanship crap like we have now, meaning that he'll have the support from Democrats.
and at best you'd see the status quo. More likely Congress run wild.
Ain't gonna happen. People who supported Paul means that they're going to take a good look at their Reps and Senators too. Congress doesn't support Paul's agenda = They'll be unemployed next election.
If you want your taxes to fall, consider Thompson.
I'll take the elimination of the IRS with Paul over more tinkering and tax engineering that benefit Thompson's lobbyist and lawyer pals, thank you.
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