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Is Ogling Women a Form of 'Harassment' & 'Abuse'?
GlennSacks.com ^ | 7/21/08 | Glenn Sacks

Posted on 07/23/2008 10:38:53 AM PDT by PercivalWalks

In the recent www.feministing.com post Two-thirds of Egyptian men admit to harassing women, Jessica Valenti quotes from Reuters:

Nearly two-thirds of Egyptian men admit to having sexually harassed women...and a majority say women themselves are to blame for their maltreatment, a survey showed Thursday.

The forms of harassment reported by Egyptian men, whose country attracts millions of foreign tourists each year, include touching or ogling women, shouting sexually explicit remarks, and exposing their genitals to women.

"Sexual harassment has become an overwhelming and very real problem experienced by all women in Egyptian society, often on a daily basis," said the report by the Egyptian Center for Women's Rights

Valenti adds:
83 percent of Egyptian women reported having been sexually harassed, almost half of these women said the abuse occurred every day. Yikes.
Details of the report by the Egyptian Center for Women's Rights can be found here.

My problem with what Reuters and Valenti wrote is a problem I often have with feminist claims -- harmful acts are mixed together with harmless ones. We are given a seemingly alarming statistic without knowing which part of the statistic is comprised by harmful acts and which part is comprised by harmless acts.

In this case, we are told that the harassment being reported includes "touching or ogling women, shouting sexually explicit remarks, and exposing their genitals to women." Pardon me, but there is a hell of a difference between touching/groping/"exposing genitals" to women and ogling women.

For one, ogling women is natural and harmless. Many women enjoy the fact that men are demonstrating that they are attractive. Many women I've known have boasted about the ogling and/or remarks. Reuters calls the harassment "abuse," but merely being ogled is in no way "abuse."

Does anybody really think that a man who ogles an attractive Arab woman like Emmanuelle Chriqui (pictured) is a "harasser" or an "abuser"? All it really means is that he's male and has a pulse.

If, however, most of this sexual harassment is groping or exposing genitals, then I think Egypt has a real problem. If most of it is just ogling, then this report means little. I do not see the forms of harassment broken down in any of the media reports or Valenti's report. If anybody knows of where I can find the breakdown, please let me know.

I feel the same way about the alleged "blaming" of women for the harassment. Such blame often angers feminists, and Valenti seems to agree. Again though, the "blaming" is not very meaningful unless we know what kinds of acts we're talking about. For example, it is ludicrous for a man who has exposed his genitals to a woman to blame her for what he did. This is similarly true with groping. In both cases, the men deserve to be punished, regardless of what the women were (or were not) wearing.

However, if we're only talking about ogling, the rules are different. I've always found it silly the way some women go way out of their way to dress so that men will notice them and be attracted to them, and then pretend to be "offended" when men look.

Cultural traditions in Egypt push women towards dressing conservatively, so I'm not sure how much women's mode of dress fits in here. I traveled some in the Arab world in the mid-1980s, and my experience was that some women dressed in a very Western manner, while others dressed in a very conservative, Moslem manner. In the major cities, it was more of the former than the latter, and the reverse in the countryside.

On the larger issue, the way women are treated in certain parts of the Muslim world is appalling. One example, from when I traveled in Morocco:

I was walking down a street and a veiled woman was walking on the same sidewalk as I was, coming the opposite way. Suddenly she turned down into a doorway, kneeled down, and pulled her robes over her.

I was only 19-years-old and didn't know a damn thing -- I thought she was sick, or injured, or in trouble. I went up to her and tapped her on the shoulder and tried to ask her what was wrong. (This was in Morocco, where much of the population speaks French, and at the time I spoke French fairly well, so she probably was able to understand what I was saying).

As I talked to her, she seemed to be increasingly agitated and she waved her hand at me asking me to go away. After a while, I left, with misgivings.

Afterwards I was informed by a couple other Moroccans that since I was a Westerner, were she to look me in the eye or in any way interact with me, she would be branded a whore. Seeing her afraid like that was a sad and moving experience.

Glenn Sacks, www.GlennSacks.com

[Note: If you or someone you love is faced with a divorce or needs help with child custody, child support, false accusations, Parental Alienation, or other family law or criminal law matters, ask Glenn for help by clicking here.]


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: feminazism; feminists; girlwatching; ogling; savethemales
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To: PercivalWalks

One thing I HATE about getting older is that I don’t get ogled anymore.


41 posted on 07/23/2008 11:05:32 AM PDT by peggybac (Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing)
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To: Skooz

I’d say she’s gorgeous but further study will be required. Perhaps even a date, oooops can’t do that.


42 posted on 07/23/2008 11:05:32 AM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption hasn’t changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: PercivalWalks

Very cute pose, what is up with this article?


43 posted on 07/23/2008 11:05:48 AM PDT by gathersnomoss (General George Patton had it right.)
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To: PercivalWalks

“If, however, most of this sexual harassment is groping or exposing genitals, then I think Egypt has a real problem.”

Egypt isn’t alone in this as I can personally state that Morocco may put them to shame in the female abuse department, especially if she is blond and a foreigner. The groping, although shocking, was mild when I compare it to my terrifying run while being chased through the streets at night (even with an escort). And there’s more, much more. There are many, many completely uncivilized inhabitants in these countries out in public.


44 posted on 07/23/2008 11:07:32 AM PDT by Melinda
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To: Skooz

That is the actress from Zohan......


45 posted on 07/23/2008 11:07:51 AM PDT by lilycicero (Ogling movie)
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To: Red in Blue PA

They get dressd up like that and go out inpublic and expect men not to ogle them. That’s cruel and inhumane.


46 posted on 07/23/2008 11:08:12 AM PDT by fella ("...He that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough." Pv.28:19')
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To: Skooz
What if you walk by and, after you are about 15 feet away, he says “Daaaayyyyyyuuuuuuuuuummmmmm!”

I would assume he'd seen a cool sports car, and turn around to look at it. Or, if I were (as today) wearing my Free Republic t-shirt with my name on it, I'd figure he was overwhelmed at seeing the famous Tax-chick in Real Life :-).

47 posted on 07/23/2008 11:08:52 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. You shed your skin, too!)
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To: PercivalWalks
Is Ogling Women a Form of 'Harassment' & 'Abuse'?

Depends on who you ask. The whole sexual harrassment business that followed the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas waste of time was predicated on the notion of how it is perceived BY THE RECIPIENT.

48 posted on 07/23/2008 11:14:40 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: Flycatcher
Mrs. Flycatcher claims I haven’t mastered it.

LOL! If you say, "Wow, she's pretty!" or "How did she get that blouse on?!?" you're a little lacking in subtlety.

49 posted on 07/23/2008 11:14:47 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. You shed your skin, too!)
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To: PercivalWalks

Ans: Nope.


50 posted on 07/23/2008 11:16:43 AM PDT by Paladin2 (Huma for co-president! (it ain't over 'til it's over))
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To: Skooz
And don’t even let her get up early and catch me watching Robin Meade on Headline News.

It might behoove you to stay away from Megyn Kelly's morning show too. If the wife's around, it's nothing but trouble.

51 posted on 07/23/2008 11:16:51 AM PDT by Flycatcher (Strong copy for a strong America)
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To: peggybac
One thing I HATE about getting older is that I don’t get ogled anymore.

My wife never tires of telling me that when a 45 year-old woman looks in the mirror, she sees a 45 year-old woman.

When a 45 year-old man looks in the mirror, he still sees the 18 year-old kid he saw there 27 years ago.

52 posted on 07/23/2008 11:18:21 AM PDT by Skooz (Property taxes are immoral)
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To: Skooz

I agree with you some girls are cut some are pretty some are beautiful some are gorgeous


53 posted on 07/23/2008 11:18:22 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: Baynative
I’m ogling - youbetcha!

That'll learn ya! (Sorry!!!!)

54 posted on 07/23/2008 11:21:19 AM PDT by weegee (Obama loves America like Bill loves Hillary.)
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To: al baby
Helen Thomas antidote.

Ogle On!

55 posted on 07/23/2008 11:21:26 AM PDT by Young Werther (Julius Caesar (Quae Cum Ita Sunt. Since these things are so.))
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To: Red in Blue PA
This gal has never been ogled! < /sarc>


56 posted on 07/23/2008 11:22:06 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (A vote for any Democrat from BO on down the ticket is a vote for $10 a gallon gas.)
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To: Young Werther

Much needed (although marginally safe for work...)


57 posted on 07/23/2008 11:22:33 AM PDT by weegee (Obama loves America like Bill loves Hillary.)
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To: PercivalWalks

A cute little coworker just walked by. I ogled.


58 posted on 07/23/2008 11:23:32 AM PDT by Skooz (Property taxes are immoral)
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To: PercivalWalks

I usually fall back on the defense of “If they didn’t want me to look, they wouldn’t be half-nekkid at the mall”.

Just today, I walked past a young lady who had a buttoned dress shirt on, and a pair of blue jeans. The issue I had was that only 2 or 3 of the bottom buttons were done, and the rest were not. If she wants guys to look at her b00bs, that’s a pretty simple way to get it to happen.


59 posted on 07/23/2008 11:24:41 AM PDT by Ro_Thunder ("Other than ending SLAVERY, FASCISM, NAZISM and COMMUNISM, war has never solved anything")
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To: r9etb

The word “perky” comes to mind.


60 posted on 07/23/2008 11:26:57 AM PDT by Paladin2 (Huma for co-president! (it ain't over 'til it's over))
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