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Is Ogling Women a Form of 'Harassment' & 'Abuse'?
GlennSacks.com ^ | 7/21/08 | Glenn Sacks

Posted on 07/23/2008 10:38:53 AM PDT by PercivalWalks

In the recent www.feministing.com post Two-thirds of Egyptian men admit to harassing women, Jessica Valenti quotes from Reuters:

Nearly two-thirds of Egyptian men admit to having sexually harassed women...and a majority say women themselves are to blame for their maltreatment, a survey showed Thursday.

The forms of harassment reported by Egyptian men, whose country attracts millions of foreign tourists each year, include touching or ogling women, shouting sexually explicit remarks, and exposing their genitals to women.

"Sexual harassment has become an overwhelming and very real problem experienced by all women in Egyptian society, often on a daily basis," said the report by the Egyptian Center for Women's Rights

Valenti adds:
83 percent of Egyptian women reported having been sexually harassed, almost half of these women said the abuse occurred every day. Yikes.
Details of the report by the Egyptian Center for Women's Rights can be found here.

My problem with what Reuters and Valenti wrote is a problem I often have with feminist claims -- harmful acts are mixed together with harmless ones. We are given a seemingly alarming statistic without knowing which part of the statistic is comprised by harmful acts and which part is comprised by harmless acts.

In this case, we are told that the harassment being reported includes "touching or ogling women, shouting sexually explicit remarks, and exposing their genitals to women." Pardon me, but there is a hell of a difference between touching/groping/"exposing genitals" to women and ogling women.

For one, ogling women is natural and harmless. Many women enjoy the fact that men are demonstrating that they are attractive. Many women I've known have boasted about the ogling and/or remarks. Reuters calls the harassment "abuse," but merely being ogled is in no way "abuse."

Does anybody really think that a man who ogles an attractive Arab woman like Emmanuelle Chriqui (pictured) is a "harasser" or an "abuser"? All it really means is that he's male and has a pulse.

If, however, most of this sexual harassment is groping or exposing genitals, then I think Egypt has a real problem. If most of it is just ogling, then this report means little. I do not see the forms of harassment broken down in any of the media reports or Valenti's report. If anybody knows of where I can find the breakdown, please let me know.

I feel the same way about the alleged "blaming" of women for the harassment. Such blame often angers feminists, and Valenti seems to agree. Again though, the "blaming" is not very meaningful unless we know what kinds of acts we're talking about. For example, it is ludicrous for a man who has exposed his genitals to a woman to blame her for what he did. This is similarly true with groping. In both cases, the men deserve to be punished, regardless of what the women were (or were not) wearing.

However, if we're only talking about ogling, the rules are different. I've always found it silly the way some women go way out of their way to dress so that men will notice them and be attracted to them, and then pretend to be "offended" when men look.

Cultural traditions in Egypt push women towards dressing conservatively, so I'm not sure how much women's mode of dress fits in here. I traveled some in the Arab world in the mid-1980s, and my experience was that some women dressed in a very Western manner, while others dressed in a very conservative, Moslem manner. In the major cities, it was more of the former than the latter, and the reverse in the countryside.

On the larger issue, the way women are treated in certain parts of the Muslim world is appalling. One example, from when I traveled in Morocco:

I was walking down a street and a veiled woman was walking on the same sidewalk as I was, coming the opposite way. Suddenly she turned down into a doorway, kneeled down, and pulled her robes over her.

I was only 19-years-old and didn't know a damn thing -- I thought she was sick, or injured, or in trouble. I went up to her and tapped her on the shoulder and tried to ask her what was wrong. (This was in Morocco, where much of the population speaks French, and at the time I spoke French fairly well, so she probably was able to understand what I was saying).

As I talked to her, she seemed to be increasingly agitated and she waved her hand at me asking me to go away. After a while, I left, with misgivings.

Afterwards I was informed by a couple other Moroccans that since I was a Westerner, were she to look me in the eye or in any way interact with me, she would be branded a whore. Seeing her afraid like that was a sad and moving experience.

Glenn Sacks, www.GlennSacks.com

[Note: If you or someone you love is faced with a divorce or needs help with child custody, child support, false accusations, Parental Alienation, or other family law or criminal law matters, ask Glenn for help by clicking here.]


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: feminazism; feminists; girlwatching; ogling; savethemales
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To: Skooz
And don’t even let her get up early and catch me watching Robin Meade on Headline News.

It might behoove you to stay away from Megyn Kelly's morning show too. If the wife's around, it's nothing but trouble.

51 posted on 07/23/2008 11:16:51 AM PDT by Flycatcher (Strong copy for a strong America)
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To: peggybac
One thing I HATE about getting older is that I don’t get ogled anymore.

My wife never tires of telling me that when a 45 year-old woman looks in the mirror, she sees a 45 year-old woman.

When a 45 year-old man looks in the mirror, he still sees the 18 year-old kid he saw there 27 years ago.

52 posted on 07/23/2008 11:18:21 AM PDT by Skooz (Property taxes are immoral)
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To: Skooz

I agree with you some girls are cut some are pretty some are beautiful some are gorgeous


53 posted on 07/23/2008 11:18:22 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: Baynative
I’m ogling - youbetcha!

That'll learn ya! (Sorry!!!!)

54 posted on 07/23/2008 11:21:19 AM PDT by weegee (Obama loves America like Bill loves Hillary.)
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To: al baby
Helen Thomas antidote.

Ogle On!

55 posted on 07/23/2008 11:21:26 AM PDT by Young Werther (Julius Caesar (Quae Cum Ita Sunt. Since these things are so.))
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To: Red in Blue PA
This gal has never been ogled! < /sarc>


56 posted on 07/23/2008 11:22:06 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (A vote for any Democrat from BO on down the ticket is a vote for $10 a gallon gas.)
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To: Young Werther

Much needed (although marginally safe for work...)


57 posted on 07/23/2008 11:22:33 AM PDT by weegee (Obama loves America like Bill loves Hillary.)
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To: PercivalWalks

A cute little coworker just walked by. I ogled.


58 posted on 07/23/2008 11:23:32 AM PDT by Skooz (Property taxes are immoral)
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To: PercivalWalks

I usually fall back on the defense of “If they didn’t want me to look, they wouldn’t be half-nekkid at the mall”.

Just today, I walked past a young lady who had a buttoned dress shirt on, and a pair of blue jeans. The issue I had was that only 2 or 3 of the bottom buttons were done, and the rest were not. If she wants guys to look at her b00bs, that’s a pretty simple way to get it to happen.


59 posted on 07/23/2008 11:24:41 AM PDT by Ro_Thunder ("Other than ending SLAVERY, FASCISM, NAZISM and COMMUNISM, war has never solved anything")
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To: r9etb

The word “perky” comes to mind.


60 posted on 07/23/2008 11:26:57 AM PDT by Paladin2 (Huma for co-president! (it ain't over 'til it's over))
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To: Young Werther

im not a caboose fan more of the upper front but they are very cute


61 posted on 07/23/2008 11:32:26 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: al baby
im not a caboose fan more of the upper front but they are very cute

Ah, I graduated to cabooses long ago ;)

62 posted on 07/23/2008 11:40:38 AM PDT by EarthBound (Ex Deo,gratia. Ex astris,scientia (Who the hell do I vote for now?))
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To: PercivalWalks

63 posted on 07/23/2008 11:44:01 AM PDT by Coffee200am ("We should all be living in mud huts and riding bicycles to avoid killing the polar bears..."/s)
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To: Skooz

Down boy, down boy ... or someone will tell you wife!


64 posted on 07/23/2008 12:09:13 PM PDT by tom h
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Wait a minute here. You mean that you know some women who live any aspect of their lives logically? Get serious ... ;)

I no more expect women to behave rationally as regards to their clothing than I do as regards their shoes, financial management, choice of men, jewelry, home decorating tastes, and bedroom furniture. Also as regards to sex.


65 posted on 07/23/2008 12:12:09 PM PDT by tom h
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To: PercivalWalks
Ogle? Who's ogling?

She's even gorgeous without makeup:


66 posted on 07/23/2008 12:17:50 PM PDT by tom h
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To: PercivalWalks

Ogle Bogle!


67 posted on 07/23/2008 12:55:50 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Are you ready to pray for Teddy?)
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To: PercivalWalks

Melba Ogle!


68 posted on 07/23/2008 12:59:40 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Are you ready to pray for Teddy?)
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To: CT-Freeper

Bump for later read.


69 posted on 07/23/2008 1:25:16 PM PDT by CT-Freeper (Said the frequently disappointed but ever optimistic Mets fan.)
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To: r9etb

RE: Photo on right.

Romper Room never fully explored/lived up to the title possibilities - unless I’ve not fully explored the DVDs available or maybe missed some episodes.


70 posted on 07/23/2008 2:09:25 PM PDT by Paladin2 (Huma for co-president! (it ain't over 'til it's over))
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To: Paladin2
Romper Room never fully explored/lived up to the title possibilities - unless I’ve not fully explored the DVDs available or maybe missed some episodes.

Miss Florence ... hubba hubba....

71 posted on 07/23/2008 2:14:18 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: Mr. Jeeves
I dressed to feel pretty and sexy, and I wanted to be noticed.

But when I was ogled, it was was embarrassing.

Still, I'm glad I could pull it off.

72 posted on 07/23/2008 2:42:40 PM PDT by Scarpetta (e pluribus victim)
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To: Scarpetta

You might flame me for this, but see post 65. I hope you recognize that it was tongue-in-cheek — from a happily married fellow for 21 years.


73 posted on 07/23/2008 5:04:47 PM PDT by tom h
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