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Darwinism as Religion in a Holy War
CEH ^ | February 20, 2009

Posted on 02/20/2009 2:58:53 PM PST by GodGunsGuts

Darwinism as Religion in a Holy War

Feb 19, 2009 — It might be expected that media attention on Darwin would be exceptionally high this month because of his bicentennial, but some of it seems downright religious. The adulation he has been receiving is almost embarrassing sometimes. It is only exceeded by the righteous indignation frequently expressed against intelligent design. In any other context, the fighting words of the Darwinians would be described as hate speech. Here are some recent examples:

1. Shrine to Darwin:...

(Excerpt) Read more at creationsafaris.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: abraham; abrahamlincoln; academic; anger; antievolution; bashing; biology; chilling; christian; comparative; creation; culture; darwin; evolution; expelled; extremism; freedom; goodgodimnutz; ibustyochopschopchop; id; integrative; intelligentdesign; lincoln; neworleans; polarizing; rap; reallystinkbadpoetry; religion; robertpennock; rrrrrahranting; shrine; sidelight; society; soldiers; templeofdarwin; time; timeforanger; usnews; wars
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To: count-your-change
How so? Really what are saying? If there’s something you just have to say, say it!

You play word games to portray anyone who doesn't subscribe to your particular creation doctines as atheists.

51 posted on 02/21/2009 10:38:19 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
Yes, you can say I portray someone as an atheist because they don't agree with my views but you won't point to where I have said that or portrayed that, will you?

GGG and I don't agree on much of anything but I've never suggested he was an atheist however in error I thought he was or is. I think he is part of “anyone”.

You will point to my comment:

“I take for granted that those who tout Darwinism believe what they say, but if you see sophistry there, by all means do share with other posters like myself.”

and call it sophistry; “There's some right there.”
but WHY it is you won't say will you?

Materialist Darwinism and God's Word, Square peg, round hole.

52 posted on 02/21/2009 11:27:00 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Science cannot fully deal with the spiritual realm. It’s better left up to philosophy to handle that. That being said, athiestic evolution is an overreach.


53 posted on 02/21/2009 12:06:10 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: atlaw

Can I use that? The images it provokes, the sheer paucity of mind, the yuck factor!

Just perfect for Markhall’s Ungreeting Cards.


54 posted on 02/21/2009 12:06:55 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
See my post #52 and feel the luv! I even acknowledge you're part of “anyone”. What more could a person want?
55 posted on 02/21/2009 12:15:36 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
but WHY it is you won't say will you?

Materialist Darwinism and God's Word, Square peg, round hole.

"Ateheism" = "Materilaistic Darwinsm" = "Darwinism" = ToE = "non-literal interpretation of Genesis".

56 posted on 02/21/2009 12:28:47 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
And who have I portrayed or said they were an atheist because they don't agree with my views?

And how it it sophistry to say that I take for granted that Darwinist believe what they say?

I'll wait if you need some time to ponder the questions.

57 posted on 02/21/2009 1:00:51 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
And who have I portrayed or said they were an atheist because they don't agree with my views?

Implicitly, everyone.

58 posted on 02/21/2009 1:07:04 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Everyone? There are how many billion people on the earth? Maybe six and here I’ve accomplished the accusing of them all!

I am underwhelmed by your reading/spelling skills and tactical illogic.

And this gem I will treasure forever or until next week, whichever comes first:

“Ateheism” = “Materilaistic Darwinsm” = “Darwinism” = ToE = “non-literal interpretation of Genesis”.


59 posted on 02/21/2009 2:56:37 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

LOL. Sorry I’m not on your side but I love to bust chops also.


60 posted on 02/21/2009 11:26:16 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Force of Truth
Then do your finest busting, my chops are intact and in good health. However, no anger please, or at least have the class to call it righteous indignation, and no attributing ill will to the contrary view. It may there but like a noxious weed it only grows hardier when exposed to light.

Lastly, if you please, while being The Buster Of Chops and Destroyer of Young Worlds make your best argument. Too many times these discussions turn into petty face slapping contests that are embarrassing to see let alone join.

I'd rather respect the chops busters than like them.

61 posted on 02/22/2009 7:25:44 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
“Ateheism” = “Materilaistic Darwinsm” = “Darwinism” = ToE = “non-literal interpretation of Genesis”.

Which of those assumptions will you not make, or reject any argument that relies on?

62 posted on 02/22/2009 12:24:25 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

This one: “Implicitly, everyone.”

And who have I portrayed or said they were an atheist because they don’t agree with my views?

Implicitly, everyone.

The following is your assumption or whatever, you explain it:

““Ateheism” = “Materilaistic Darwinsm” = “Darwinism” = ToE = “non-literal interpretation of Genesis”.


63 posted on 02/22/2009 1:17:52 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

Then go back to your holy war, pretending it isn’t one.


64 posted on 02/22/2009 1:47:51 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Yes, yes,......thank you for your permission and projection.


65 posted on 02/22/2009 2:03:10 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
By your own account it's a war of ideas - atheistic philosophical naturalism vs theism and divine creation.

There are no shades of gray, it a "with us or against us" proposition, and the dividing line is belief creation, according to the Book of Genesis, and disbelief that evolution can or did happen. Everyone on the other side of that line gets counted among the atheists.

And the only answer you have to that assesment amounts to the equivalent of playground taunts of "I know you are, but what am I?"

66 posted on 02/22/2009 2:11:11 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

“Then go back to your holy war, pretending it isn’t one”

permission and projection

either I consider it a war or i don’t, or is this more tactical illogic?


67 posted on 02/22/2009 2:30:50 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

I’m a practicing Catholic,conservative and believe in evolution. Like millions. So I’m calling BS on you’re post.


68 posted on 02/22/2009 2:35:24 PM PST by Blackirish
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To: count-your-change
either I consider it a war or i don’t

If you considered it a war, and it looked to be to your advantage in fighting that war in the arena of public opinion to make it appear that it's actually only the other side that thinks it'a a war, would you do that?

69 posted on 02/22/2009 2:35:36 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Don’t be silly, you’re asking if I would engage in dishonesty or deceitful hypocrisy.

You keep making outlandish comments and when called on them simply take a few minutes to think up another.

“By your own account it’s a war of ideas”.
Of course it is, I haven’t read of Darwinists being shot down in their temple.

“If you considered it a war,...”
What’s with the “if”? We’ve already agreed that I do and you have right there in front of you all my comments and all your comments too just like I do.


70 posted on 02/22/2009 3:00:24 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Don’t be silly, you’re asking if I would engage in dishonesty or deceitful hypocrisy.

Misinformation and propaganda is part and parcel of any war.

71 posted on 02/22/2009 3:03:41 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

A truism but what has that to do with your question?


72 posted on 02/22/2009 3:24:46 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
A truism but what has that to do with your question?

If you really do consider it a war, then whatever truth there is in that truism pertains to that question.

If you really do consider it a war, then whatever you have to say on the subject needs to be viewed as being said under the rules of engagement of war.

73 posted on 02/22/2009 3:32:10 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Sorry, No one elected you to set rules or appreciations of what is said.

And I know I certainly don’t comment according to any frame work of “rules of engagement” you want to apply.

So take the stars off your collar, a general you ain’t.

But if there is some larger point you have to make, now is not too soon.


74 posted on 02/22/2009 3:48:48 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Blackirish

==I’m a practicing Catholic,conservative and believe in evolution.

I never said you can’t be a practicing Catholic or a conservative if you believe in evolution. Likewise, nobody can say you can’t be both if you believe in a straightforward reading of Creation Week. The issue here is what God’s Word teaches us about origins.


75 posted on 02/22/2009 4:27:34 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: count-your-change
But if there is some larger point you have to make, now is not too soon.

The point's been made, and stands.

I don't have to make the rules of engagement to know that those rules are different in a civil disagreement than they are in a declared war.

I'm just taking things in context.

76 posted on 02/22/2009 4:28:33 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
Well, you're going to have to wait for a salute since the one is a metaphor for the other, and how you might have metaphorical rules I can't guess.

In any event, I'll continue to defend the truth of the Scriptures against the attacks of Darwinism, whatever the description.

77 posted on 02/22/2009 5:58:45 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Then do your finest busting, my chops are intact and in good health. However, no anger please, or at least have the class to call it righteous indignation, and no attributing ill will to the contrary view. It may there but like a noxious weed it only grows hardier when exposed to light.

Lastly, if you please, while being The Buster Of Chops and Destroyer of Young Worlds make your best argument. Too many times these discussions turn into petty face slapping contests that are embarrassing to see let alone join.

I'd rather respect the chops busters than like them.

I hear you. I agree respect is hard to do, especially in a crowd. I'm not knocking ANYONE on this board when I say this, but I'm from the South and things are always tense down here. I don't agree with the libtard idea of these words, but down here there is a level of racism, sexism, and religious bigotry by EVERYONE. I have on many occasions tried to play fair with everyone's ideas and on many occasion get my head chopped of by BOTH sides.

So I understand your frustration, however I always try to hold the debate to CONSISTENCY. I do see religious people go overboard, but what I see just as often is nonreligious people trying to use Science to disprove Faith. I'm not saying that Science can't disprove Faith, but ultimately, Science is not as effective in the Spiritual realm as Philosophy. I don't see the point of an evolutionist (atheist, agnostic, Christian, etc.) trying to argue against the Bible. It makes no sense, because we are talking about a realm that cannot be observed by the human eye. Theology is born and reasoned in the mind and in the soul.

I know a lot of evolutionists are very educated men. They understand the sciences far more than I ever will, but I find that they are, at least, moderately inconsistent in how they view evolution. They will disagree on some very important points of evolution, to me, this shows the weakness of evolutionary theory. No I don't think Creationists are always accurate in their attacks on evolutionists, I think, in part, because of it's inconsistencies. They are often shouted down as insane religious idiots. A lot of hate is on both sides. Two things I would ask any materialist/atheist is

1. If the Trinitarian Orthodox Christian God of The Bible could be proven by science, would you accept Him as your Lord and Master? I venture that most would give a resounding NO!.

2. If all that is in the universe is cold atoms and naked biology, then why do you feel something called Love when you go home to your wife and kids at night?

There are just some things that Science cannot explain, and I wish we were all honest enough to acknowledge this. God made it so we can neither prove Him nor disprove Him with Science alone. The entire human experience must be taken into account. God wants humans to accept Him based on an approving love of Him. He will often not give overwhelming signs, wonders and experiences, and He will not remove all doubt. There will always be doubt on both sides.

I can't explain what came before God, why He didn't created Himself, and many other things about God. But I understand in a finite universe, there must be a First Cause. From there, the events of my life and the spiritual dimension I sense within my mind, body, and soul are just more pieces of the incomplete puzzle that makes up my Faith. I am not an infinite being, so my judgments are flawed. But from what I know, God exists and what I do will effect me for all eternity. (Yes I meant effect, because I am what I do.)

I often think of Pascal's Wager. He makes the challenge that if He is correct that God exists, he has everything to lose for not believing in Him. On the other hand, if God does not exist, what is to lose but a few meaningless years on earth followed by nothing. I tend to agree with Arthur Schopenhauer on this one: not pleasure, but freedom from pain, is what the wise man will aim at. I'm not saying that is always consistent in my life. Very often it is not, but ultimately, this is the choice I make. This choice is so personal that Science cannot even come close to touching.

78 posted on 02/22/2009 9:35:24 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Blackirish
I’m a practicing Catholic,conservative and believe in evolution. Like millions. So I’m calling BS on you’re post.

I'm ASSUMING by conservative you mean that you believe the Bible is the perfect Word of God. That being said, how long did it take God to create Light?

The point of the article was that Darwin is like a religious figure to evolutionists, and if you read the piece, I don't see how you would disagree with that.

79 posted on 02/22/2009 10:37:58 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Okay, it’s time to reveal my identity
I’m the manifestation of tens of millions
Of centuries of sexual selection, best believe
I’m the best of the best of the best of the best
Of generations of competitive pressure genetically
But don’t get upset, ’cause we’ve got the same pedigree
You and I will find a common ancestor eventually
If we rewind geological time regressively
And I could say the same for this hibiscus tree
And this lizard and the flea and this sesame seed.

FEWWWWWWWEEE. Is that primordial fish I smell?

80 posted on 02/22/2009 10:45:36 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Force of Truth
I too have lived around people who have never had to defend what they think in any serious way and when called upon to do so resent it, not because they are so wrong or right, but because it was possible to believe without a reason for so doing, it was easy to believe.

I had a teacher that used to say, reason first, answer second. And that's a difficult thing to do since it's easy to find an answer but logic and reasoning come hard.

And that's true no matter what the belief. Too often the religious equate faith with belief without evidence, while the materialist equates faith in evidence with proof, neither being right.

But in either case a good dose of genuine humility and good humor helps to keep us from seeing the give and take here as more important than it really is.

The world's ills aren't going to be fixed nor opposers crushed by anything I post, of that I'm certain.

Cheers!

81 posted on 02/22/2009 10:59:25 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
I too have lived around people who have never had to defend what they think in any serious way and when called upon to do so resent it, not because they are so wrong or right, but because it was possible to believe without a reason for so doing, it was easy to believe.

I had a teacher that used to say, reason first, answer second. And that's a difficult thing to do since it's easy to find an answer but logic and reasoning come hard.

College Calculus? LOL. Yeah, but awesome. You can't tell people anything. You know this. Most of us have to have a near death experience before we learn anything. It's like some comdian said once: People always happen to find Jesus in jail, don't they? Especially on death row, that's when they really find Jesus, right there. I remember this lady in Texas -- she was trying to get out of this death execution, talkin' about, 'But I found Jesus! I did!' Well, b****, now you gonna meet him. What's your problem?

82 posted on 02/22/2009 11:43:11 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Force of Truth
Indeed, many are like the fellow who wouldn't change his mind until severely beaten. He said no one had ever explained the situation like before.

Maybe mules and humans are related!

83 posted on 02/23/2009 12:25:18 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Force of Truth

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2191791/posts?page=74#74


84 posted on 02/23/2009 4:59:47 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: count-your-change
Well, you're going to have to wait for a salute since the one is a metaphor for the other, and how you might have metaphorical rules I can't guess. In any event, I'll continue to defend the truth of the Scriptures against the attacks of Darwinism, whatever the description.

I'll continue to take you at your word, and assume that as long as you consider it a war rather than simply a civil disagreement you will pursue it as a war, under rules of enagagement considered normal in war time.

85 posted on 02/23/2009 5:21:43 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

“I’ll continue to take you at your word, and assume that as long as you consider it a war rather than simply a civil disagreement you will pursue it as a war, under rules of enagagement considered normal in war time.”

Raise your hands and back away from that keyboard! You’re a prisoner of The Army of The Confusion, Private Room. Under The Rules of Engagement you’re entitled to a ring around each wrist. And no, that self meditation above is not normal. Your war is over.


86 posted on 02/23/2009 8:50:24 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Raise your hands and back away from that keyboard! You’re a prisoner of The Army of The Confusion, Private Room. Under The Rules of Engagement you’re entitled to a ring around each wrist. And no, that self meditation above is not normal. Your war is over.

I'd expect such a reply from a wartime propagandist.

87 posted on 02/23/2009 8:53:45 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

That’s straight from The Ministry of Slappem, written by The Bureau of Baggit, approved by The Office of Awful and co-signed by The Commoder of Crazy and other members in the chained to the wall of commands.


88 posted on 02/23/2009 9:09:15 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
That’s straight from The Ministry of Slappem, written by The Bureau of Baggit, approved by The Office of Awful and co-signed by The Commoder of Crazy and other members in the chained to the wall of commands.

All by the book.

89 posted on 02/23/2009 9:15:33 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

No, by my book, “That Buzzing in Your Head Is Real”.

Would you like a copy?


90 posted on 02/23/2009 2:39:13 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

Insults are a typical propaganda technique.


91 posted on 02/23/2009 2:49:50 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Insults are a typical propaganda technique.


92 posted on 02/23/2009 4:19:36 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

If you’re down to just trying to have the last word, take it. It’s yours.


93 posted on 02/23/2009 4:44:50 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

When the word religion is used a pejorative, I take it that means religion sucks in the mind of the user.


94 posted on 02/23/2009 4:49:17 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
When the word religion is used a pejorative, I take it that means religion sucks in the mind of the user.

That's a possible unintended consequence. I believe the objective is to keep the argument as subjective as possible.

There's a long history of conflicts between religion and science, and religion hasn't fared well in most cases.

Characterizing science as a reigion is a tactic to try and avoid having that happen again.

95 posted on 02/23/2009 5:00:38 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
Characterizing science as a region is a tactic to try and avoid having that happen again.

I see nothing to be gained by making "religion" a dirty word.

It's interesting that creationism stands on its head and does global search and replaces to avoid the taint of "religion," but goes to extreme lengths to present itself as science.

What is it about religion that is so odious, and what is it about science that has everyone making kiss kiss?

96 posted on 02/23/2009 5:06:41 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138

It’s a holy war. The end will justify the means, and God will forgive the collateral damage.


97 posted on 02/23/2009 5:42:31 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: js1138
I see nothing to be gained by making “religion” a dirty word.***

You would if you didn't want to be hemmed in by the truth. Objective labels are too stuffy.

98 posted on 02/23/2009 7:58:57 PM PST by Force of Truth (Sarah Palin in 2012!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!)
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