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What Constitutes "Treason" ?
Feb 26, 2009 | Fedd_Upp

Posted on 02/26/2009 8:21:49 PM PST by Fedd_Upp

What constitutes "treason" ? Does anyone know?


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: activism; impeach; justice; obama
Please tell me, somebody, what the definition of "treason" is as it relates to the Federal Government and the US Constitution. Is it defined anywhere in our Bill of Rights or the Constitution?
1 posted on 02/26/2009 8:21:49 PM PST by Fedd_Upp
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To: Fedd_Upp

Voting for Obama.


2 posted on 02/26/2009 8:24:07 PM PST by St. Louis Conservative
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To: St. Louis Conservative

The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.


3 posted on 02/26/2009 8:24:21 PM PST by mojitojoe (None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free.)
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To: St. Louis Conservative

YES, VOTING FOR ZER0 WOULD FALL UNDER TREASON TOO.


4 posted on 02/26/2009 8:24:48 PM PST by mojitojoe (None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free.)
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To: Fedd_Upp
Here's a definition.
5 posted on 02/26/2009 8:25:42 PM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: Fedd_Upp
—betraying the nation‐state that the American military was created to defend—is among the most odious of crimes. Yet American history suggests how fine the line can be between patriot and traitor. The founding fathers had to become traitors to their king in order to create the United States. The Declaration of Independence articulated the conditions—tyranny—under which a people might legitimately renounce their allegiance to one sovereign authority and transfer it to another. Efforts to punish disloyalty to the new nation predated its independence. On 24 June, 1776, the Continental Congress adopted a motion by its Committee on Spies recommending that individual colonies punish those “who shall levy war against any of the said colonies … or be adherent to the King of Great Britain….” Thus authorized, the revolutionary factions in the individual colonies punished as traitors avowed Tories, along with those who uttered favorable opinions about the king, had contact with the British, or entered British‐controlled territories. The emphasis was on protecting the new nation, not the rights or intent of the accused. Punishment most often involved confiscation of property and exile. The revolutionaries justified such severity by the presumption that, as the Virginia treason statute suggested, “all countries have a Right to the personal services” of their inhabitants. Treason was given an enduring symbol in 1780 when Gen. Benedict Arnold, disillusioned with the revolutionary cause, unsuccessfully schemed to surrender the army garrison at West Point to the British, fleeing to the British after his plot was discovered. Arnold's name remains synonymous with betrayal in American history. The excesses of the Revolution prompted the framers of the Constitution to restrict the definition of treason to “levying war against” the United States and providing “aid and comfort” to its enemies, and to require the testimony of two witnesses “to the same overt act” and the establishment of treasonous intent for conviction. They limited punishment to the person charged, and abjured the attainder of the traitor's relatives or heirs. Thus the framers hoped to balance the security of the state with the protection of private property and individual rights and to prevent the charge of treason from becoming an instrument of political repression. The first application of the Constitution's treason provisions occurred in 1794 with the Whiskey Rebellion. Federal troops led by George Washington quashed this challenge to central authority, and a federal circuit court condemned to death two men—whom Washington later pardoned—for treason. A major landmark in the evolution of treason law occurred in the 1807 trial of Aaron Burr, who stood accused of attempting to establish an independent trans‐Appalachian empire. Although circumstantial evidence pointed toward the defendant's guilt, the government's inability to prove that an overt act of treason had occurred resulted in Burr's acquittal. In a victory for a narrow interpretation of the law of treason, Chief Justice John Marshall ruled that “the difficulty of proving a fact will not justify conviction without proof.” During the Mexican War (1846–48), religious allegiance took precedence over national loyalty for several hundred Irish immigrant U.S. troops who deserted to the Mexican Army when the Mexican government appealed to them to defend Catholicism and promised them land. The “San Patricio Brigade” put up fierce resistance against U.S. units at the Battle of Churubusco before surrendering to Gen. Winfield Scott, who executed fifty of them for treason. In 1859, John Brown and his followers, in the name of God and slave liberation, seized the Federal arsenal at Harpers Ferry, Virginia, as part of a plan to establish a free guerrilla state. Although Brown had attacked U.S. property, Governor Henry Wise had the conspirators tried for treason against Virginia. This assertion of state jurisdiction reflected the assumptions that soon produced the secession of the Southern states in 1861, the most significant act of treason in American history. Suppression of the rebellion was based on the assumption that the Union was permanent and that secession from it could never be justified. Although the Constitution defines treason strictly, Congress has expanded the definition of treasonous behavior by legislation such as the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 and and the Espionage and Sedition Acts of World War I (1917; 1918), which punished political expression deemed hazardous to the state. Both sets of legislation proved controversial. The acts of 1798 provoked the violent opposition of the emerging Jeffersonian Republican Party and facilitated the election of Thomas Jefferson as president in 1801. The acts of 1917–18 legitimated a government crackdown on dissent of all kinds and foreshadowed the crisis atmosphere of the Red Scare of the 1920s. The Cold War saw the charge of treason used to build political careers and silence dissent. Congressman Richard M. Nixon first came to prominence in 1948 investigating a State Department employee, Alger Hiss, for his alleged activities as a Communist Party contact in the 1930s. In 1952, Senator Joseph McCarthy, alleging “twenty years of treason,” launched his campaign to eliminate alleged traitors in the federal government. McCarthyism made dissent tantamount to treason. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, who were convicted and executed in 1953 for passing secrets to the Soviets, were condemned by many for being traitors. Jonathan Pollard, a Defense Department analyst convicted in 1985 of passing vital secrets to Israel, remains incarcerated in spite of continued pressure from the Israeli government for his release. The quantity and importance of the information Pollard leaked constitutes one of the most significant security breaches in U.S. history. In recent years, treason has tended to be committed for monetary gain rather than ideological commitment. Typical of this trend are Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officials Aldrich Ames and Harold James Nicholson. Ames, before being discovered in 1994, passed extensive information on U.S. intelligence operatives abroad to Soviet and Russian agents. Nicholson, who confessed in March 1997 to passing secrets to the Russians, is the highest ranking CIA employee to be caught spying. http://www.answers.com/topic/treason
6 posted on 02/26/2009 8:27:10 PM PST by mojitojoe (None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free.)
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To: mojitojoe

MJ, paragraphs please


7 posted on 02/26/2009 8:27:57 PM PST by nufsed
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To: Fedd_Upp

Firing on American Soldiers on Fort Sumter.


8 posted on 02/26/2009 8:28:12 PM PST by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: Fedd_Upp
Websters defines it as:

1 : the betrayal of a trust : treachery
2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

But that definition seems a little narrow. Consider, selling secrets or controlled technology to a hostile foreign power. (like say, the Clintons and China?) Or revealing militarily important information that would put US forces' lives at higher risk (like say, MSM during any war or military action in the past 3 decades).

These kinds of things, intentionally doing the Country harm, should be considered treasonous.

9 posted on 02/26/2009 8:28:28 PM PST by CodeMasterPhilzar (I'll keep my money, my guns, and my freedom. You can keep the "change.")
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To: mojitojoe
Chief Justice John Marshall opened the door for making actions other than treason a crime in Ex Parte Bollman when he held that the clause does not prevent Congress from specifying other crimes of a subversive nature and prescribing punishment, so long as Congress is not merely attempting to evade the restrictions of the treason clause. But he also stated, "However flagitious [villainous] may be the crime of conspiring to subvert by force the government of our country, such conspiracy is not treason.
10 posted on 02/26/2009 8:31:58 PM PST by mojitojoe (None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free.)
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To: nufsed

I’m so sorry. I hit enter before I realized it. I know better, shame on me.


11 posted on 02/26/2009 8:32:44 PM PST by mojitojoe (None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free.)
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To: Fedd_Upp
From the website of the Workers World Party:

"With his leadership, the Korean people defeated the Japanese colonial occupation and soon after brought about the first defeat of the U.S. imperialist military machine. ...

Workers World Party values our close, comradely relations with the Workers Party of Korea very highly. We are proud to have known Kim Il Sung as a great leader and a comrade in the international communist movement. ..."

With comradely solidarity, Sam Marcy Chairperson, Workers World Party" (1994):
http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/sam94/1994html/s940721.htm

___________________________________________________________

Workers World
55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011
Email: ww@workers.org
Subscribe wwnews-subscribe@workersworld.net
Support independent news
http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php

International Action Center
55 W 17th St #5C
New York, NY 10011
212-633-6646
iacenter@action-mail.org
ndomtickets@safewebmail.com
www.iacenter.org
[http://www.iacenter.org/polprisoners/dom-2007.htm]

Troops Out Now Coalition
55 W. 17th St. #5C
NY NY 10011
www.TroopsOutNow.org

____________________________________________________


Photo of Charlie Rangel at the podium of a March 19th, 2005 Workers World Party/Troops Out Now rally in Harlem, New York. The occasion marked the 2nd anniversary of the start of the Iraq war. The photo comes from the ("We are proud to have known Kim Il Sung as a great leader and a comrade in the international communist movement. ...") Workers World Party website.

Also appearing at this "peace" rally with the demonRat Charlie Rangel, now chairman of The House Ways and Means Committee, were Saddam Hussein lawyer, Ramsey Clark and convicted terrorist enabler/attorney, Lynne Stewart. Clark, with Workers World Party, started up that other 'peace' group, A.N.S.W.E.R. Clark also heads the International Action Center and was actually once Attorney General of the United States under democrat LBJ.

Source for the photos: Workers World Party website (workers.org)
http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html

12 posted on 02/26/2009 8:34:48 PM PST by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Fedd_Upp
FYI: House Judiciary Committee chairman, democrat John Conyers Jr of Michigan, and HJC member, Maxine Waters, have each given their endorsements to the Revolutionary Communist Party movement/organization, "World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime".

Click on the WCW link just below and see: "Endorsers of the Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime Include". Conyers' endorsement appears right after Ward Churchill's. Al Sharpton's, Maxine Waters and Jesse Jackson Jr's are further down the list:
http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2538&Itemid=2
_______________________________________________________________________

Fact: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime is a Maoist-revolutionary movement organized by the Revolutionary Communist Party. (scroll down the list that appears (after clicking link) to find the World Can't Wait organization --rwor.org is the website of the Revolutionary Communist Party):
http://rwor.org/a/rwlink/links.htm
_______________________________________________________________________

From David Horowitz's FrontpageMag.com /DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
Profile: World Can't Wait (WCW)

*Revolutionary communist movement that stages protests against the Bush administration

*Organizes college and high-school students

*Founded in June 2005 by Charles Clark Kissinger, a longtime leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7213
_______________________________________________________________________

Endorsers of the [World Can't Wait] Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime Include:

James Abourezk, Aris Anagnos, Rocky Anderson, Anti-Flag, Edward Asner, Russell Banks, Ed Begley Jr., Harry Belafonte, St. Clair Bourne, Gabriel Byrne, Margaret Cho, Ward Churchill, Paulette Cole, US Rep John Conyers Jr., John Densmore, Jesse Diaz Jr., Michael Eric Dyson, Steve Earle, Niles Eldredge, Daniel Ellsberg, Eve Ensler, Laura Flanders, Jane Fonda, Martin Garbus, Senator Mike Gravel, Andre Gregory, Sam Hamill, Suheir Hammad, Rev. Jesse L. Jackson Jr., Mumia Abu-Jamal, Rickie Lee Jones, Sarah Jones, Brig. Gen. (Ret) Janis Karpinski, Jonathan Kozol, Rabbi Michael Lerner, US Rep. Cynthia McKinney, Robin Meyers, Mark Crispin Miller, Tom Morello, Viggo Mortensen, John Nichols, US Rep. Major Owens, Grace Paley, Harvey Pekar, Sean Penn, Michelle Phillips, Harold Pinter, Michael Ratner, Mark Ruffalo, US Rep. Bobby Rush, Susan Sarandon, Richard Serra, Jeff Sharlet, Rev. Al Sharpton, Cindy Sheehan, Martin Sheen, Nancy Spero, Gloria Steinem, Lynne Stewart, Serj Tankian, Sunsara Taylor, Studs Terkel, Gore Vidal, Kurt Vonnegut, Alice Walker, Naomi Wallace, US Rep. Maxine Waters, Cornel West, Ann Wright, Howard Zinn, and thousands more who have already joined us.

http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2538&Itemid=2
_______________________________________________________________________

On Oct 5, 2006, Democrat Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, John Conyers Jr, the same guy who is leading the 'investigation' of the Bush administration, gave a SPEECH to the World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime organization, the "anti-war" front for the Revolutionary Communist Party!
http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3801&Itemid=69
_______________________________________________________________________

Also from the Revolutionary Communist Party website:
"Tearing Up the U.S. Paper Tiger in Korea:
How 300,000 Chinese Troops Snuck into Korea and Kicked the Ass of the U.S. Armed Forces"
RW #1059, June 18, 2000:
http://rwor.org/a/v22/1052-059/1059/korea.htm
_______________________________________________________________________

Mission Statement from the Revolutionary Communist Party website (revcom.us or rwor.org):

"Create Public Opinion, Seize Power: We are preparing minds and organizing forces for the time when there is a major crack in the system, whenever it comes and wherever it comes from: an opening that makes it possible to bring the future Revolutionary Army of the Proletariat (R.A.P.) into the field and wage a revolutionary armed struggle that actually has a chance of winning.

And we have said that building our party itself is the most important part of organizing forces for revolution. This is true now, and it is true looking forward to the creation of that future R.A.P. and the waging of that armed struggle.":

http://revcom.us/a/v20/1000-1009/1000/barw.htm
_______________________________________________________________________

Judiciary Chairman Conyers Issues Report Documenting Bush Abuses, Calling For Further Committee Investigation, Blue-Ribbon Panel, and Criminal Probes

For Immediate Release
January 13, 2009
Contact: Jonathan Godfrey, Lillian German

(Washington, D.C.) -- Today, House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, Jr. released a nearly-500 page report documenting numerous abuses and excesses of the Bush administration. The report, titled "Reining in the Imperial Presidency: Lessons and Recommendations Relating to the presidency of George W. Bush," contains 47 separate recommendations designed to restore the traditional checks and balances of our constitutional system. Recommendations include calls for continued committee investigation, a blue ribbon commission to fully investigate administration activities, and independent criminal probes.

"Even after scores of hearings, investigations, and reports, we still do not have answers to some of the most fundamental questions left in the wake of Bush’s Imperial Presidency," Conyers said. Pointing to allegations of torture and inhumane treatment, extraordinary rendition, warrantless domestic surveillance, the Valerie Plame Wilson-leak, and the U.S. attorney scandal, Conyers continued, "Investigations are not a matter of payback or political revenge – it is our responsibility to examine what has occurred and to set an appropriate baseline of conduct for future administrations."

In addition to the set of recommendations, the report contains a foreword by Chairman Conyers and detailed discussions of: the administration’s legal approach to presidential power; the politicization of the Department of Justice; the administration’s far-reaching assaults on individual liberty (including torture, extraordinary rendition, and warrantless domestic surveillance); the misuse of Executive Branch authority; the administration’s retribution against its critics; and the administration’s excessive secrecy, noncompliance with congressional oversight, and manipulation of pre-Iraq War intelligence.

http://judiciary.house.gov/news/090113_1.html

The full report [487 pages on pdf]:
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/printers/110th/IPres090113.pdf

13 posted on 02/26/2009 8:36:19 PM PST by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Clemenza

Surely they were firing on Confederates, not Americans?


14 posted on 02/26/2009 8:48:15 PM PST by pleasenoobama (Liberals lied, small government died)
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To: mojitojoe

i think my brain bled a little tryin to read that, but thanks anyhow

mrs


15 posted on 02/26/2009 8:58:14 PM PST by proudmilitarymrs (The Republic is dead. Thanks a bunch Senator Specter.)
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To: Fedd_Upp

Well I think the principal you are getting at is: DOES oppostion (including up to secession) consist of Treason when it is against a Federal Government that has VIOLATED the US Constitution, and there is no legal way to remedy?

So basically is it treason to be against the Federal Government, but “For the Constitution”..?


16 posted on 02/26/2009 9:58:14 PM PST by JSDude1 (R(epublicans) In Name Only SUCK; D(emocrats) In Name Only are worth their weight..)
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To: JSDude1

It’s simple:

If you lose it’s treason.

If you win, it’s revolution.

He who wins writes the history.


17 posted on 02/26/2009 10:06:48 PM PST by AmericanDave (All truth has 3 stages: 1st ridiculed; 2nd violently opposed; 3rd, Seen as obvious!)
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To: Fedd_Upp

Nothing constitutes treason.

Nor is It a valid argument in a US court of us law.


18 posted on 02/26/2009 10:16:41 PM PST by NoLibZone (To preserve this nation a strongly worded email is in order!)
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To: Fedd_Upp
This..
19 posted on 02/26/2009 10:34:09 PM PST by OL Hickory (Where is the America I knew as a boy?)
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To: CodeMasterPhilzar
Obama is not, contrary to popular belief, guilty of treason.

the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

20 posted on 02/27/2009 4:17:22 AM PST by TurtleUp (Turtle up: cancel optional spending until 2012, and boycott TARP/stimulus companies forever!)
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To: Fedd_Upp

Treason?... How about drowning this country in a ocean of red ink that it will never recover from. Osama must go.


21 posted on 02/27/2009 4:22:44 AM PST by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
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To: OL Hickory
That particular photo of Fonda and Kerry you posted was shown to be a hoax
See: http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp

However, there is another one, where Kerry is sitting several rows behind her at a so-called "anti-war" rally (actually a pro-communist rally) which she admitted was for real.
See: http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp

22 posted on 02/27/2009 4:33:35 AM PST by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Fedd_Upp

Penn Hangs Again With Pal Chavez:
http://www.newser.com/story/40507/penn-hangs-again-with-pal-chavez.html
__________________________________________________________

Sean Penn Applauds as Venezuela's Chavez Bashes Bush:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291855,00.html
__________________________________________________________

Code Pink 'Bundles' for Barack, 4/14/2008

Photobucket
Cindy Sheehan, Jodie Evans, Hugo Chavez,
Medea Benjamin [co-founder Code Pink]

"The co-founder of the radical anti-war group Code Pink [Jodie Evans] has “bundled” more than $50,000 for Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign, and pro-troops groups are demanding that he return the money."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25997
__________________________________________________________

Revolution interview with ("Peace Mom") Cindy Sheehan: October 29, 2005:
['Revolution' is the official newspaper of the Revolutionary Communist Party]
http://rwor.org/a/021/cindy-sheehan-interview.htm
__________________________________________________________


From National Public Radio (NPR):
August 29, 2006
"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has been visiting countries such as China, Iran and Russia as part of an effort to build a 'strategic alliance' of interests not beholden to the United States. He considers the United States his arch enemy.":
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5729764
__________________________________________________________

From CBS-News:
July 29, 2006
"Chavez pledged that his country would 'stay by Iran at any time and under any condition,' state television reported. Ahmadinejad said he saw in Chavez a kindred spirit." "'We do not have any limitation in cooperation,' Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying. 'Iran and Venezuela are next to each other and supporters of each other. Chavez is a source of a progressive and revolutionary current in South America and his stance in restricting imperialism is tangible.'":
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/29/world/main1847331.shtml
__________________________________________________________

Photobucket
Code Pink's Jodie Evans embraces Jane Fonda
__________________________________________________________

November 22, 1970 -- During a fund-raising tour for GI deserters, Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the Black Panthers, Jane Fonda is quoted in the Detroit Free Press as telling a University of Michigan audience:

"I would think that if you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would someday become communist," and "The peace proposal of the Viet Cong is the only honorable, just, possible way to achieve peace in Vietnam."
http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php?topic=Timeline

Fonda made the following statement at the University of Texas:
"We've got to establish a Socialist economic structure that will limit private profit-oriented businesses. Whether the transition is peaceful depends on the way our present governmental leaders react. We must commit our lives to this transition ...... We should be very proud of our new breed of soldier. It's not organized but it's mutiny, and they have every right." --Karen Elliott Dallas Morning News December 11, 1971

From 1972: "I am not a do-gooder, I am a revolutionary. A revolutionary woman."

Source for most of the Jane Fonda material:
http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm
__________________________________________________________

From RushLimbaugh.com:
Hanoi Jane Endorses Obama
April 3, 2008

REPORTER 1: Jane, who are you voting for?

REPORTER 2: Who gets your vote?

FONDA: Obama.

REPORTER 2: Oh, my God. Heaven help us all.

RUSH: The reporter for TMZ said, "Oh, God. Heaven help us all." Obviously the reporter is an Obama supporter.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_040308/content/01125111.guest.html
__________________________________________________________

23 posted on 02/27/2009 4:43:57 AM PST by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: OL Hickory

___________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________

John Kerry, from his book, The New Soldier
"We will not quickly join those who march on Veterans' Day waving small [American] flags, calling to memory those thousands who died for the 'greater glory of the United States.'..."

"The John Kerry quote comes in the epilogue to "The New Soldier," the book put out by Vietnam Veterans Against the War [VVAW]. The book's cover features a group of not-particularly sober-looking anti-war protesters (vets, presumably) flying the American flag upside down [while mocking the historic flag raising event at Iwo Jima]":
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1203164/posts

Note John Kerry's name at top right of The New Soldier

"...if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned."-J.F. Kerry

"Under questioning from the Committee, Kerry referred to the democratically elected government of South Vietnam -- our allies -- as a "dictatorial regime, the Thieu-Ky-Khiem regime," while respectfully calling the North Vietnamese communist regime we were fighting by its oxymoronic official name, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, and the murderous Viet Cong's political arm by their preferred "Provisional Revolutionary Government.":
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/lindachavez/lc20040428.shtml
___________________________________________________________

From Frontpagemag.com:
During the question and answer period following his April 22, 1971 televised testimony before the Armed Services Committee of the United States Senate, Kerry said:

"I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned."

Even today, knowing what we know about the Vietnamese communists and about John Kerry, it is difficult to grasp the enormity of what he was confessing to. As an American citizen and a member of the United States Navy—while his former comrades and countless others were fighting and dying in Vietnam at the hands of Viet Cong guerillas and North Vietnamese regulars—Kerry consorted with the Viet Cong representative and discussed (“talked with,” he euphemized) her “plan.” That obscene plan included a trade: the return of our POWs for a withdrawal of American forces.

As John O’Neill expressed in his important bestselling book Unfit For Command, “. . . America could have its POWs back only if we agreed that we lost, then surrendered, and then set a date to leave.”

Kerry’s wartime trip to Paris was confirmed about six months ago by a campaign spokesman, who tossed it off as a mere “fact-finding” excursion.

Yet Kerry was apparently so impressed with the “facts” he found in company with the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese that a few months after his return from Paris he had the effrontery to urge the President of the United States to accept his communist hosts’ plan for 'peace' in Vietnam."
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15127
___________________________________________________________

"We will not quickly join those who march on Veterans' Day waving small (American) flags, calling to memory those thousands who died for the 'greater glory of the United States.' "

So John Kerry would have a difficult time marching with those waving small American flags yet had NO problems marching with those waving HUGE VIETCONG FLAGS?


"Pictured above: VVAW-supported demonstration during the Washington Spring Offensive, April - May 1971. Notice the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong flags."
___________________________________________________________

June, 1970 -- Kerry joins Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), a national veterans group that is part of the Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice. The PCPJ is a broad coalition of local and national organizations, including the Communist Party, USA, "committed to conducting demonstrations aimed at ending the war in Indochina, and poverty, racism and injustice at home." The VVAW, CCI and PCPJ all have headquarters at 156 Fifth Avenue in New York City. VVAW Executive Secretary Al Hubbard, a former **Black Panther, is also on the coordinating committee of the PCPJ. Hubbard soon appoints Kerry to the VVAW's Executive Committee, bypassing the normal election process.
http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php?topic=Timeline
___________________________________________________________

November 22, 1970 -- During a fund-raising tour for GI deserters, Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the Black Panthers, Jane Fonda is quoted in the Detroit Free Press as telling a University of Michigan audience:

"I would think that if you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would someday become communist," and "The peace proposal of the Viet Cong is the only honorable, just, possible way to achieve peace in Vietnam."
http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php?topic=Timeline
___________________________________________________________

From the Maoist Internationist Movement:
[1960s/original] Black Panther Party [BPP] Archives
From the article: REVOLUTIONARY HEROES

"On May 1st, May Day [1969], the day of the gigantic Free Huey rally, two of Alioto's top executioners vamped on the brothers from the Brown Community who were attending to their own affairs. These brothers, who are endowed with the revolutionary spirit of the Black Panther Party defended themselves from the racist pig gestapo.

Pig Joseph Brodnik received his just reward with a big hole in the chest. Pig Paul McGoran got his in the mouth which was not quite enough to off him.

The revolutionary brothers escaped the huge swarm of pigs with dogs, mace, tanks and helicopters, proving once again that "the spirit of the people is greater than the man's technology."

To these brothers the revolutionary people of racist America want to say, by your revolutionary deed you are heroes, and that you are always welcome to our camp."

Source: Maoist Internationist Movement
Article: REVOLUTIONARY HEROS (May 11, 1969):
(note: I've been having trouble with this link lately, and might have to find another source for the Panther archives)
http://web.archive.org/web/20060717050055/http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/bpp/index.html
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William Ramsey Clark
66th United States Attorney General
In office: March 10, 1967 – January 20, 1969
President: Lyndon B. Johnson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsey_Clark
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Ramsey Clark, former U.S. attorney general under democrat LBJ with convicted terrorist enabler/commie lawyer, Lynne Stewart, at an "anti-war" rally in Harlem NY on March 19, 2005, the 2nd anniversary of the start of the Iraq War. The event was organized by the Workers World Party and "Troops Out Now". TON is an "anti-war" (pro-communist) Workers World Party front group (see my earlier post on this thread for the links between the two).
http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html
___________________________________________________________

The Vietnam Veterans Against the War Assassination Plot --was John Kerry at the meeting or not?
(my title-etl)

"Mr. Kerry denies being present at the November 12-15, 1971, meeting in Kansas City of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and says he quit the group before the meeting. But according to the current head of Missouri Veterans for Kerry, Randy Barnes, Mr. Kerry, who was then 27, was at the meeting, voted against the plot, and then orally resigned from the organization.

Mr. Barnes was present as part of the Kansas City host chapter for the 1971 meeting and recounted the incident in a phone interview with The New York Sun this week.

In addition to Mr. Barnes’s recollection placing Mr. Kerry at the Kansas City meeting, another Vietnam veteran who attended the meeting, Terry Du-Bose, said that Mr. Kerry was there.

There are at least two other independent corroborations that the 'antiwar' group Vietnam Veterans Against the War, of which Mr. Kerry was the most prominent national spokesman, considered assassinating American political leaders who favored [winning-etl] the war."
Article: John Kerry's Political Friends, by Thomas H. Lipscomb
The New York Sun | Monday, March 15, 2004
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12571
___________________________________________________________

"Kerry has long been portrayed as not being at the Kansas City, Mo., meeting because Kerry recalled quitting the organization at an acrimonious July 1971 session, four months before the November meeting at which the assassination plot was discussed.

But last week, the Kerry campaign seemed to leave open the possibility that he had attended the November session, after historian Gerald Nicosia said he had found an FBI document that he said indicated that Kerry was there.

As a result of Nicosia's assertion, Kerry's campaign said in a statement that while Kerry did not remember being at the meeting, 'If there are valid FBI surveillance reports from credible sources that place some of those disagreements in Kansas City, we accept that historical footnote in the account of his work to end the difficult and divisive war.'..."
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/04/01/kerry_cant_recall_being_at_71_parley/
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But if Kerry WAS there, he had to have heard the assassination plot being discussed! If so, how come he never reported it to anyone? Isn't it a serious crime not to report a murder plot?--especially when the targets are U.S. senators?? Also, he apparently continued on as a spokesman for VVAW months after the plot was discussed!-etl
___________________________________________________________

John Kerry and the VVAW--Hanoi's American Puppets?
"Two recently discovered documents captured from the Vietnamese communists during the Vietnam War strongly support the contention that a close link existed between the Hanoi regime and the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) while John Kerry served as the group's leading national spokesman."
http://www.wintersoldier.com/staticpages/index.php?page=puppets
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Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) Complete FBI files:
http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php?topic=VVAWFBI
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Photo link: "Jane Fonda and John Kerry at an anti-war rally in Valley Forge, Pa. (Leif Skoogfors/Corbis)"
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp

The photo is genuine. Here is what Jane Fonda herself had to say about it:

"My reaction is that the American people have had it with the big lie. Any attempt to link Kerry to me and make him look bad with that connection is completely false. We were at a rally for veterans at the same time. I spoke, Donald Sutherland spoke, John Kerry spoke at the end. I don't even think we shook hands."

Source for quote: same snopes article linked above

24 posted on 02/27/2009 5:23:50 AM PST by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: JSDude1

Yes — that’s an accurate description of the root of my question...

What about measures enacted (by our political “leaders”)that will result in the economic ruin of our country?

What about the fact that a little shy of 50% of voting Americans are being TAXED but not REPRESENTED in that the representatives we voted into office are not even afforded the privilege (right?) to view proposed bills and/or to voice the opinions of their constituents regarding those bills?

Is it not a risk to the NATIONAL SECURITY of our country to enact legislation that will make her overtly vulnerable to foreign takeover and/or financial/economic ruin?


25 posted on 02/27/2009 7:46:36 AM PST by Fedd_Upp
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To: mojitojoe

Think we can find another witness?


26 posted on 03/04/2009 9:07:58 PM PST by Sequoyah101 (Get the bats and light the hay)
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