Skip to comments.Obama & Indonesia: Where Are the Facts? HonoluluAdvertiser, MSNBC, AtlasShrugs
Posted on 09/02/2009 9:31:55 AM PDT by Vincent Jappi
Back on July 8, 2008, I had originally reported a story by WND wherein Mr. Obama had referenced Jakarta, Indonesia as my old home town. In that posting, I also referenced the following picture by Tatan Syuflana (an Indonesian reporter and photographer) of Mr. Obamas registration card at Indonesias Fransiskus Assisi Catholic school:
To date, the White House has remained silent on the fact that the document shows Barry Soetoros citizenship as being Indonesian.
Stick with me this is where things begin to get interesting, and likely not for the reason youre thinking.
Today, a few concerned citizens forwarded me this link via FreeRepublic.com referencing a HonoluluAdvertiser.com article written by a Mr. Will Hoover dated January 8, 2006 (my link to a screenshot of the complete article). This article contains what appears to be, on first glance, quite the glaring admission (fourth paragraph down from the top of the image):
Both were born outside the country Obama in Indonesia, Duckworth in Thailand and graduated from high school in Honolulu Punahou and McKinley, respectively.
Being the concerned citizen reporter that I am, and noticing that Mr. Hoover freely makes his Honolulu Advertiser email publicly available, I decided to send him an email correspondence asking him if he still stands by his story of nearly four years ago and upon what did he base his belief about Mr. Obamas alleged birth in Indonesia.
Mr. Hoover provided a response that, while very much appreciated, I will show in just a moment that what he is saying doesnt align with what this blog and other sites already know to be true:
Phil The story in question was written on deadline more nearly four years ago. The story was not about Obama, but Tammy Duckworth. I knew little about Obama at the time, other than that he had lived in Honolulu and graduated from High School here. With time running out, I Googled Obama (and) birthplace, (or something similar) and incredibly the first thing I found said Obama was born in Indonesia! Hey, it looked factual (apparently it was from a site trying to discredit Obamas Hawaii origins so much for trusting Google). Anyhow, thats what wound up in the story. I quickly, and sheepishly, learned otherwise after the story appeared. I believe a correction soon followed.
Apparently this old story, sans correction, is now making the rounds at the speed of electrons. Today I got a phone call from Jerome Corsi welcoming me to the top of the birthers list. He was kidding, of course. The irony is that after my November 9, 2008 Obama Slept Here story appeared introducing for the first time Obamas birth announcement that appeared in the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and an identical announcement in the Honolulu Star Bulletin the following day, Aug. 14, 1961 (both were public service listings sent over by the state Health Departments Bureau of Vital Statistics, and were not generated by family members of new-born babies) I briefly landed at the top of the birthers hit list. This is because of one paragraph in the story that read:
Fringe theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya are left to ponder how two independent Honolulu daily newspapers and the state Department of Health could be part of a conspiracy half a century ago to thwart the truth about the future president of the United States. [no, but his family may have filed a false declaration with the Department of Health in order to get him US citizenship if he was born abroad]
Id like to tell you that ending up at opposite extremes of birther listings is an example of balanced journalism. Alas, its nothing more than an example of deadline pressure, fickle fate, and the indelibility of misbegotten facts when writing about future presidents of the United States. We live, and we learn. Yours humbly Will Hoover
First of all, perhaps unknown to Mr. Hoover, he didnt actually break the story regarding the newspaper announcements on November 9, 2009. Instead, as commenter Sharon 2″ pointed out back on March 24, 2009, TexasDarlin did:
This from Atlas Shrugged:
The original discovery of the birth announcements was done by a Hillary supporter, not an Obot. Texas Darlin posted about these announcement back in July 2008. Here note about the announcement:
*The birth announcement was tracked down by Lori Starfelt, the producer of a documentary that PUMA is working on. READ the comments below for in-depth explanations from Lori about the announcement.
Posted by: LadyJez | Sunday, March 22, 2009 at 04:56 PM
Texas Darlin, whom I adore, picked up on my posts dear.
Posted by: Pamela Geller | Sunday, March 22, 2009 at 06:40 PM
Pamela, Infidel Granny here. I am the woman who sent you the birth announcement from the Honolulu Advertiser in July 2008. You gave me a hat tip on July 23, 2008. I sure hope you dont think I had anything to do with a forgery. The woman I spoke to at the Advertiser suggested I contact the Hawaii State Librbary for the info. Thats where I got it from just as it states in the blog on July 23. The librarian stated another woman had asked for the same thing about one week before I did. You might still have my email and phone number. Feel free to contact me if you like.
Posted by: Infidel Granny | Sunday, March 22, 2009 at 07:35 PM
WOW- is this prophetic? August 21, the factcheck site released the stills of the birth certificate, after Obamas trip to Hawaii.
Read comment below:
Thanks. Good question on my striping, but I might be a little coy on that for now.
The publicity value of the Obama campaign showing a video of the paper COLB would be highest in the next week? We are in the doldrums according to Gallup.com (doldrums site:Gallup.com)
They are waiting for Obama to come back to the US and then they will release a video of the paper COLB? I would say if the paper COLB isnt shown by the end of next week its existence is as much in doubt as ever. They arent going to wait to show it during the convention are they?
Posted by: Old Atlantic | Thursday, July 24, 2008 at 08:09 PM
me speaking- why didnt they show a video? It may have satisfied more people (not me I admit).
1) Did the Obamas live at the address stated in the newspaper ad? [they didn't - it is the grandparents' address]
2) Why did Dan Rather lose his job? [meaning: "it might be another forgery"].
I dont know enough to make a decision.
Even though TexasDarlins blog is apparently down because of a move, it isnt hard to figure out the date of the above article by her 07/23/2008 predates Mr. Hoovers claim of 11/09/2008.
Furthermore, Politifact.org also references Mr. Hoovers November 9th article and creates a slightly better abstract for what he was talking about the birth announcements (sidenote: notice that Politifact never says from which microfilm Mr. Hoover pulled for these abstracts), not necessarily a correction over the above-referenced article RE: Indonesia. In fact, another article by Mr. Hoover similarly does not tie back to the above Indonesian article and instead addresses the birth announcements.
Secondly, Mr. Hoovers article was posted on January 8, 2006. Correct me if Im wrong, and even though this observation is anecdotal, Mr. Obama was merely an Illinois Senator and his future presidency much less his eligibility wasnt an issue at the time. In fact, as Mr. Hoover pointed out, the article was about Ms. Duckworth, not Mr. Obama, per se. It wouldnt be until 2007 that the Democratic Convention would be convened to nominate Mr. Obama as a presidential candidate and it was only during mid-late 2007 that Mr. Berg even began considering challenging Mr. Obamas eligibility.
But it gets even better.
First, take a look at a more recent comment by Sharon 2:
Will Hoover- He seems to be the point man for the Honolulu Advertisers Obama stories. This has come up before, I think from Sue:
We have one more thing. We talked to reporter Will Hoover, who wrote a well-researched story for the Honolulu Advertiser on Nov. 9, 2008, about Obamas childhood years in the the Aloha State. It ran under the headline Obama Slept Here.
[I have found the piece entitled "Obama's Hawaii boyhood homes drawing gawkers"]
In researching the story, he went to the microfilm archives and found the birth announcement for Obama. Actually, he found two of them, one in his Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13 , 1961, and in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day . They both said the same thing: Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4.
I said on another thread:
Just doing a little checking around, maybe even being prurient. This from Atlas Shrugs:
Pamela, Infidel Granny here. I am the woman who sent you the birth announcement from the Honolulu Advertiser in July 2008. You gave me a hat tip on July 23, 2008. I sure hope you dont think I had anything to do with a forgery. The woman I spoke to at the Advertiser suggested I contact the Hawaii State Library for the info. Thats where I got it from just as it states in the blog on July 23. The librarian stated another woman had asked for the same thing about one week before I did. You might still have my email and phone number. Feel free to contact me if you like.
Posted by: Infidel Granny | Sunday, March 22, 2009 at 07:35 PM
I wondered why Granny was sent to the Hawaii State Library where it appeared Hoover went straight to the microfilm available at the paper. Bystander rightly said that it doesnt state which archives Hoover went to. No, it doesnt, but he very much implied that he went to the Advertisers microfilm. He didnt mention the Hawaii State Library by name. The reporter who does such excellent research had this to say in 2006:
Duckworth is happy to point out that she and Hawaii-raised Punahou graduate Obama have a kamaaina connection.
Both were born outside the country Obama in Indonesia, Duckworth in Thailand and graduated from high school in Honolulu Punahou and McKinley, respectively.
Here is some more reporting from Hoover:
Lum, Obama and current Punahou basketball coach Dan Hale were all gym rats or rat ballers at Punahou someone who practically eats, drinks and sleeps basketball, as Lum put it.
So, it was basketball between classes, after school or whenever the opportunity came up. They shot hoops in the park, behind the gym or any place that suited them. Lum, Obama and Hale were all on the championship basketball team of 79.
For half an hour, Lum and Hale politely answered reporters questions about Obama next to the school lily pond before noon yesterday. He was witty, outgoing, always had that great smile, they said. He was ever the team player, but not the sort to back down if he was convinced he was right. Neither man could recall a negative thought about Obama never saw him do drugs, or as much as smoke a cigarette. They didnt recall him dating.
Now see this:
Obamas high school year book picture inscription thanks Tut, Gramps, and the Choom Gang. Choom is Hawaiian slang for pot smoking.
Thomas, Garen. 2008. Yes We Can: A Biography of Barack Obama. New York: Feiwel and Friends Book.
I wonder if Lum and Hale were member of the Choom Gang?
Hoover, the point man.
How is all of this so important? Because of connecting the dots. Ill let Sharon 2″ explain, quite simply:
Just look at the Hoover connection here. Politifact sites Hoover and Sue sites politifact and on and on. It all comes from Hoover. Also, Texas Darlin website was being used as a source for Factcheck regarding the newspaper articles. Everyone sites Factcheck. I know that also goes for birthers too, but not for reasons of duplicity or obfuscation.
Specifically, she is referencing to Politifact.org here and FactCheck.org here. And look at the following excerpt from the Politifact.org article:
The exact same notice appeared the following day in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. The numerous birth announcements above and below the Obama listing also were identical in both papers, which were unaffiliated, competing publications.
Advertiser columnist and former Star-Bulletin managing editor Dave Shapiro was not at either paper in 1961, but he remembers how the birth notices process worked years later when both papers were jointly operated by the Hawaii Newspaper Agency which no longer exists.
Those were listings that came over from the state Department of Health, he said. They would send the same thing to both papers.
Sharon 2″ observes:
So, a guy who didnt work at either paper in 1961 remembers how the process worked years later???? Is this the proof that the Dept of Health sent the same thing to both papers? Is this another example of one source that is not confirmed becoming proof that is circulated?
And I think thats the punchline here:
Not only was the basis of Mr. Hoovers Obama Indonesian birthplace claim a cursory search via Google but, as Mr. DeLay so aptly put it, a newspaper birth announcement is not an official document certifying anything about anyone. [that's the main issue. What kind of official body would satisfy itself with such a kind of "evidence"?]
If you connect the dots, you will see that everyone is ultimately pointing back to the point man, Mr. Hoover, who while I hasten to add that he seems to otherwise be a capable reporter has effectively based his research on absolutely zero hard, physical evidence (sorry, but images of alleged Hawaii Certifications of Live Birth are just that images). And, as Ive just stated, newspaper birth announcements prove absolutely nothing with respect to presidential eligibility.
Unfortunately, we are simply left following circular logic with respect to this Presidents eligibility. The only thing that has ever been released is an image of an alleged Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, and the document upon which the image is based has never been forensically investigated by experts. Further, even Dr. Fukino of the Hawaiian Department of Health only ever states that she has seen vital documents, not an actual birth certificate, per se.
Again, we are left with nothing but questions.
Update: As Sharon 2″ continues to comment:
Also, I wanted to point out this by Hoover:
and incredibly the first thing I found said Obama was born in Indonesia! Hey, it looked factual (apparently it was from a site trying to discredit Obamas Hawaiii origins so much for trusting Google).
Why would a site be trying to discredit Obamas Hawaii origins in January of 2006? If it is true, Obamas birthplace being Indonesia, was the first hit, why would that be true? Why wouldnt Honolulu be the first hit? Google was in on a conspiracy to discredit Obama? That is what Hoover is saying? And he is the point man for Politifact.
Update: Apparently, there are folks who dont quite get the significance of this posting yet. Therefore, Sharon 2″ has once again summed things up quite succinctly:
You didnt get the point at all. First, Hoover used the internet to verify where Obama was born, taking the first hit as proof, without even considering the birth place listed was foreign. He then tells Phil that the information likely came from a site dedicated to discrediting that Obama was born in Hawaii and that he should not have trusted GOOGLE! Come on, Sus, who is claiming a conspiracy here? There was no presidential campaugn happening then. In the research of his article, he used as evidence an editor who did not work for either Hawaii paper in 1961 but remembered years later what the process was for birth announcements. This is not to say the process as described was not accurate, but what about any confirmation of the information? What Hoover wrote is then spread around as established fact.
It is I who have asked what microfilm Hoover looked at when a public citizen was directed by the Advertiser to go elsewhere for the notices of birth. Were they available to Hoover? If not, why didnt the Advertiser have them? If so, why was another citizen sent elsewhere for the notices?
Sunday, August 30 Update: I was able to receive a response from Mr. Hoover regarding any sort of correction to the story upon which my posting was originally based:
I was writing a deadline piece when your original email came in on Friday. It was among several emails I received on the subject, and yours was the only one I had time to answer in any detail. When I finished the deadline story, I officially started my vacation. I am packing my bags right now to fly to the Mainland for several weeks. But I ran across your follow-up email at home. I checked our online archives to find the original Tammy Duckworth article. I was surprised to see the article didnt include the correction I thought would be there. I recall getting calls and emails after the story ran from readers who wanted me to know Obama had been born in Hawaii. Plus, I remember an editor telling me about the error. In those heady days, the Honolulu Advertiser had a full-time correction police editor who was relentless in quickly publishing corrections in the paper. Usually those corrections were also attached to the archive versions but not always. Unfortunately, because of the financial crunch, many employees who were with the paper in 2006 have been laid off. That list includes the corrections editor. It also includes the copy boy who I believe routinely saved each edition of the paper. I dont know if that stash still exists. If it does, Ill be happy to sort through it when I return to find the correction. Yours humbly Will
I responded back to Mr. Hoover thanking him for taking the time to respond and that Id be looking forward to additional information. I also asked him to forward any information he had with respect to his looking at microfilmed birthplace announcements (such as exactly where he researched these).
While I am honored that Mr. Hoover would take the time immediately before a vacation to respond to my email (perhaps Im the only one asking specific questions regarding this issue?), I am merely a concerned citizen reporter who finds this response to be exceptionally coincidental.
Who would have thought that such a scenario existed that there could potentially be no follow up correction to Mr. Hoovers original story? What was another site doing on the Internet in very early 2006 that allegedly proclaimed Mr. Obamas birthplace to be other than American?
Monday, August 31 Update: Commenter MGB was the first to point out the following (rounded out by Sharon 2) from MSNBCs Hardball with Chris Matthews (heres a link to a very large 4MB screen capture):
Here is the portion of the transcript with a link, MGB and Phil.
MATTHEWS: So, is Hillary backer Bob Kerrey pretending to sell Obama, but clearly putting the shiv in?
Here is Hillary Clinton defending him and Bob Kerrey:
I think the remarks were very positive. I know Bob. He was being very complimentary of Senator Obama. He was making a point that Senator Obama makes himself all the time, that, because of his upbringing and his heritage, he is, in his viewin his viewcatch that linevery well-suited to communicate with the rest of the world. And he has just himself that he wants to have a particular outreach to the Islamic world. So, I think Senator Kerrey was being, you know, very generous in what he said.
But didnt Hillary dump on Obama a few days ago for playing up his Indonesian roots? So, what is she up to here? Is she pushing how great he is for having been born in Indonesia, or what, or simply reminding everybody about his background, his Islamic background?
December 19, 2007.
The same mistake by two different media personae. Also, this is a little trip down memory lane about the early relationship with Hillary and Obama. Maybe Matthews was claiming that HILLARY claimed Obama was born in Indonesia.
Since this is from 2007, we can only speculate that perhaps Mr. Matthews was using this point from Mr. Hoover, since clearly his 2006 piece was precedent for this time frame.
Again, the theory happens to be that what one reporter stated may have then become the point by further media personalities; otherwise, where did Mr. Matthews get his evidence?
And, of course, Ms. Pamela Geller of AtlasShrugs had the following posting from Friday, October 17, 2008 that pointed out that even though its highly unlikely that Mr. Obama was actually born in Indonesia the Indonesian government may have been bought and paid for to keep any further information regarding this Presidents background from seeing the light of day:
Faleomavaega is a member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs and the House Committee on Natural Resources. What better fixer for Obamas mop up in Indonesia?
Faleomavaega recently traveled to Indonesia to meet with government leaders and while there, he visited the school that Senator Obama attended when he was living abroad with his parents.Hmmmmm, thats strange. Why would Faleo visit Obamas madrassah.
So what did the Red Godfather ask of his lackey Faleomavaega? Clean up Indonesia.
Obama is Indonesian. American Expat in Southeast Asia, Larry Martin told me that his sources claim that Obama was adopted and that the Indonesian government is aware of this so are Obamas people who cut a deal with the Indonesian government to have the records suppressed.
As American Expat in Southeast Asia, Larry Martin, has an excellent post up of Obamas efforts to suppress Indonesian records and in the process throw the human rights of West Papuans under the bus. Sounds like yet another Obama Breach of the Logan Act (remember when he stabbed our boys in Iraq in the back?) and support of Genocide (www.westpapua.ca)
The evil one like his comrade Odinga will do anything to advance his Coup détat [emphases original]
Maybe it was a site from Indonesia that Mr. Hoover first saw on Google way back 4 years ago ?
Note: I would like to thank commenter Sharon 2″ for the fantastic, professional-level research that she has done in helping to craft this posting.
See the following links regarding the eligibility saga:
* Obamas Presidential Eligibility: What You Need to Know * Obamas Sealed Background Documentation * Newsmax.com: Obama Birth Certificate Not Released * Whats the Difference Between a Birth Certification Versus a BirthCertificate? * Keyes v. Lingle: Forensic Examiner and IT Expert Disprove Certification of Live Birth * Obama Citizenship Facts * The State Department and Sen. Patrick Leahys (D-VT) Natural Born Citizen Resolution (April 10, 2008) * Citizen Grand Jury Updates and Eligibility Lawsuit Listing
We already know that he, and his mommie, used false SS numbers. We don't know why ... and we really don't know who, exactly, our POTUS is. These intriguing factoids didn't impress 53% of the voting public, and in all fairness to the illiterates among us, were unavailable except to those who could read.
Theres something else afoot here more than the vauge natural born citizen. He wouldnt be afraid of that if he was born on U.S. soil.
If, given what we do know, he were born on US soil, he still (in all probability) wouldn't be a "Natural Born Citizen," because his Papa wasn't a citizen at all.
Hey, why don't we call the SCOTUS Hotline? They might know!
Same way she met Obama Sr. in college. How many times can they use that story. Nobody knows that much about Lolo Soetoro until checking on Barry the names start popping up.
Jay Rockefeller and a Space Alien to be named in my latest "National Enquirer" article?
Seriously, this POTUS, based on what we really really know about him, could be a virtual character dreamed up by the writers of "Mork and Mindy."
Hasn’t found a church yet since being Pres. but celebrates Ramadan.
Makes you wonder if he has a belly button...
HMMM and I found a blog from Indonesia that said BO was born in Kenya....Gave it to FARS for safe keeping....Good thing cause I put it up and haven’t been able to figure how high up is right now.
That is indeed very sad. However, it has served to keep the issue alive. As time goes by, more members of the public will come to realize that a COLB is not a BC. They will finally pick up on the fact that even if the POTUS were "Native Born," that does not make him "Natural Born."
....an institutionalized legal procedure... I sincerely hope that will eventually be the end of this story. Because Constitutional order has relied on a expectation of honesty, it has been cynically and maliciously attacked and as a result, the Presidency and the security of the country severely jeopardized.
~~Very detailed .. Indonesia, Hawaii, etc. ....... PING!
Obama could have been born in Indonesia just as likely as Kenya or the US or anywhere else.
You have to keep in mind that the CIA was very involved in trying to overthrow Sukarno.
They hatched a plot for a fake honeytrap. Google to see who all was involved with that..including a man that was involved with a briefcase handed over during the Nixon years,,etc...and a beloved singer and movie star.
Lolo was a military officer who just happened to be studying in Hawaii.
Don’t forget that Chris Matthews said that OBama was born in Inonesia.
The bottom line is that I very much believe we will never know the real story because the family was involved with the Spooks.
Who was involved with the Weather Underground. Not much happened to those guys..and ones that got sent to prison got a pardon from Clinton.
Was the FBI or some other 3 letter alphabet involved with them..a la Hal Turner??
Just one big mystery.
“continued proof of the shell game.”
I concur something odd is going on. For awhile, I thought he was just deliberately jerking the chains of critics either because he was arrogant (”you don’t tell ME what to do”) or a part of a deliberate ploy to squander their energies on a trivial issue (assuming he really was born in Hawaii) and not focus their attention on his radical policy initiatives. But at this juncture, it’s pretty clear that his credibility has declined sharply at least in part due to things like this. It makes a mockery of his claims regarding transparency. So why not pull off a small “win” by just releasing the damned thing and showing people he’s being attacked by loons?
The fact that he doesn’t even though at this juncture it might help give him a needed boost suggests that he really does have something to hide even though what that is continues to remain completely speculative.
Of course, he may also have come to realize that by releasing his full BC at this late date, he may simply incur even greater wrath from even fence-sitters on the birth certificate issue who may wonder “Why in the world did you allow millions of dollars to be squandered on legal fees, court costs, media attention etc. over the past year when you could have just released the damned thing 16 months ago and put all these rumors to rest?”
Ignore my previous post. I just found where WND found the grandparents had rented the place at the time of obama’s birth. I can’t believe I missed this info.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.