Obama & Indonesia: Where Are the Facts? HonoluluAdvertiser, MSNBC, AtlasShrugs

Back on July 8, 2008, I had originally reported a story by WND wherein Mr. Obama had referenced Jakarta, Indonesia as “my old home town.” In that posting, I also referenced the following picture by Tatan Syuflana (an Indonesian reporter and photographer) of Mr. Obama’s registration card at Indonesia’s Fransiskus Assisi Catholic school:

To date, the White House has remained silent on the fact that the document shows “Barry Soetoro’s” citizenship as being Indonesian.

Stick with me — this is where things begin to get interesting, and likely not for the reason you’re thinking.

Today, a few concerned citizens forwarded me this link via FreeRepublic.com referencing a HonoluluAdvertiser.com article written by a Mr. Will Hoover dated January 8, 2006 (my link to a screenshot of the complete article). This article contains what appears to be, on first glance, quite the glaring admission (fourth paragraph down from the top of the image):

Both were born outside the country — Obama in Indonesia, Duckworth in Thailand — and graduated from high school in Honolulu — Punahou and McKinley, respectively.

Being the concerned citizen reporter that I am, and noticing that Mr. Hoover freely makes his Honolulu Advertiser email publicly available, I decided to send him an email correspondence asking him if he still stands by his story of nearly four years ago and upon what did he base his belief about Mr. Obama’s alleged birth in Indonesia.

Mr. Hoover provided a response that, while very much appreciated, I will show in just a moment that what he is saying doesn’t align with what this blog and other sites already know to be true:

Phil… The story in question was written on deadline more nearly four years ago. The story was not about Obama, but Tammy Duckworth. I knew little about Obama at the time, other than that he had lived in Honolulu and graduated from High School here. With time running out, I Googled “Obama (and) birthplace,” (or something similar) – and incredibly the first thing I found said Obama was born in Indonesia! Hey, it looked factual (apparently it was from a site trying to discredit Obama’s Hawaii origins – so much for trusting Google). Anyhow, that’s what wound up in the story. I quickly, and sheepishly, learned otherwise after the story appeared. I believe a correction soon followed.

Apparently this old story, sans correction, is now making the rounds at the speed of electrons. Today I got a phone call from Jerome Corsi welcoming me to the “top of the birthers’ list.” He was kidding, of course. The irony is that after my November 9, 2008 “Obama Slept Here” story appeared – introducing for the first time Obama’s birth announcement that appeared in the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and an identical announcement in the Honolulu Star Bulletin the following day, Aug. 14, 1961 (both were public service listings sent over by the state Health Department’s Bureau of Vital Statistics, and were not generated by family members of new-born babies) – I briefly landed at the top of the birthers’ hit list. This is because of one paragraph in the story that read:

“Fringe theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya are left to ponder how two independent Honolulu daily newspapers and the state Department of Health could be part of a conspiracy half a century ago to thwart the truth about the future president of the United States.” [no, but his family may have filed a false declaration with the Department of Health in order to get him US citizenship if he was born abroad]

I’d like to tell you that ending up at opposite extremes of birther listings is an example of balanced journalism. Alas, it’s nothing more than an example of deadline pressure, fickle fate, and the indelibility of misbegotten “facts” when writing about future presidents of the United States. We live, and we learn. Yours humbly… Will Hoover

First of all, perhaps unknown to Mr. Hoover, he didn’t actually break the story regarding the newspaper announcements on November 9, 2009. Instead, as commenter “Sharon 2″ pointed out back on March 24, 2009, TexasDarlin did:

The original “discovery” of the birth announcements was done by a Hillary supporter, not an “Obot”. Texas Darlin’ posted about these announcement back in July 2008. Here note about the announcement:

*The birth announcement was tracked down by Lori Starfelt, the producer of a documentary that PUMA is working on. READ the comments below for in-depth explanations from Lori about the announcement.

Pamela, Infidel Granny here. I am the woman who sent you the birth announcement from the Honolulu Advertiser in July 2008. You gave me a hat tip on July 23, 2008. I sure hope you don’t think I had anything to do with a forgery. The woman I spoke to at the Advertiser suggested I contact the Hawaii State Librbary for the info. That’s where I got it from just as it states in the blog on July 23. The librarian stated another woman had asked for the same thing about one week before I did. You might still have my email and phone number. Feel free to contact me if you like.

WOW- is this prophetic? August 21, the factcheck site released the stills of the birth certificate, after Obama’s trip to Hawaii.

Thanks. Good question on my striping, but I might be a little coy on that for now.

The publicity value of the Obama campaign showing a video of the paper COLB would be highest in the next week? We are in the doldrums according to Gallup.com (doldrums site:Gallup.com)

They are waiting for Obama to come back to the US and then they will release a video of the paper COLB? I would say if the paper COLB isn’t shown by the end of next week its existence is as much in doubt as ever. They aren’t going to wait to show it during the convention are they?

me speaking- why didn’t they show a video? It may have satisfied more people (not me I admit).

1) Did the Obamas live at the address stated in the newspaper ad? [they didn't - it is the grandparents' address]

Even though TexasDarlin’s blog is apparently down because of a move, it isn’t hard to figure out the date of the above article by her — 07/23/2008 — predates Mr. Hoover’s claim of 11/09/2008.

Furthermore, Politifact.org also references Mr. Hoover’s November 9th article and creates a slightly better abstract for what he was talking about — the birth announcements (sidenote: notice that Politifact never says from which microfilm Mr. Hoover pulled for these abstracts), not necessarily a “correction” over the above-referenced article RE: Indonesia. In fact, another article by Mr. Hoover similarly does not tie back to the above Indonesian article and instead addresses the birth announcements.

Secondly, Mr. Hoover’s article was posted on January 8, 2006. Correct me if I’m wrong, and even though this observation is anecdotal, Mr. Obama was merely an Illinois Senator and his future presidency — much less his eligibility — wasn’t an issue at the time. In fact, as Mr. Hoover pointed out, the article was about Ms. Duckworth, not Mr. Obama, per se. It wouldn’t be until 2007 that the Democratic Convention would be convened to nominate Mr. Obama as a presidential candidate and it was only during mid-late 2007 that Mr. Berg even began considering challenging Mr. Obama’s eligibility.

Will Hoover- He seems to be the point man for the Honolulu Advertiser’s Obama stories. This has come up before, I think from Sue:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/28/worldnetdaily/birthers-claim-gibbs-lied-when-he-said-obamas-birt/

We have one more thing. We talked to reporter Will Hoover, who wrote a well-researched story for the Honolulu Advertiser on Nov. 9, 2008, about Obama’s childhood years in the the Aloha State. It ran under the headline “Obama Slept Here.”

[I have found the piece entitled "Obama's Hawaii boyhood homes drawing gawkers"]

In researching the story, he went to the microfilm archives and found the birth announcement for Obama. Actually, he found two of them, one in his Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13 , 1961, and in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day . They both said the same thing: “Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4.”

Just doing a little checking around, maybe even being prurient. This from Atlas Shrugs:

Pamela, Infidel Granny here. I am the woman who sent you the birth announcement from the Honolulu Advertiser in July 2008. You gave me a hat tip on July 23, 2008. I sure hope you don’t think I had anything to do with a forgery. The woman I spoke to at the Advertiser suggested I contact the Hawaii State Library for the info. That’s where I got it from just as it states in the blog on July 23. The librarian stated another woman had asked for the same thing about one week before I did. You might still have my email and phone number. Feel free to contact me if you like.

I wondered why Granny was sent to the Hawaii State Library where it appeared Hoover went straight to the microfilm available at the paper. “Bystander” rightly said that it doesn’t state which archives Hoover went to. No, it doesn’t, but he very much implied that he went to the Advertiser’s microfilm. He didn’t mention the Hawaii State Library by name. The reporter who does such “excellent” research had this to say in 2006:

Duckworth is happy to point out that she and Hawai’i-raised Punahou graduate Obama have “a kama’aina connection.”

Both were born outside the country — Obama in Indonesia, Duckworth in Thailand — and graduated from high school in Honolulu — Punahou and McKinley, respectively.

Lum, Obama and current Punahou basketball coach Dan Hale were all “gym rats” or “rat ballers” at Punahou — “someone who practically eats, drinks and sleeps basketball,” as Lum put it.

So, it was basketball — between classes, after school or whenever the opportunity came up. They shot hoops in the park, behind the gym or any place that suited them. Lum, Obama and Hale were all on the championship basketball team of ‘79.

For half an hour, Lum and Hale politely answered reporters’ questions about Obama next to the school lily pond before noon yesterday. He was witty, outgoing, always had that great smile, they said. He was ever the team player, but not the sort to back down if he was convinced he was right. Neither man could recall a negative thought about Obama — never saw him do drugs, or as much as smoke a cigarette. They didn’t recall him dating.

Obama’s high school year book picture inscription thanks “Tut,” “Gramps,” and the “Choom Gang.” Choom is Hawaiian slang for “pot smoking.”

Thomas, Garen. 2008. Yes We Can: A Biography of Barack Obama. New York: Feiwel and Friends Book.

How is all of this so important? Because of connecting the dots. I’ll let “Sharon 2″ explain, quite simply:

Just look at the Hoover connection here. Politifact sites Hoover and Sue sites politifact and on and on. It all comes from Hoover. Also, Texas Darlin’ website was being used as a source for Factcheck regarding the newspaper articles. Everyone sites Factcheck. I know that also goes for “birthers” too, but not for reasons of duplicity or obfuscation.

Specifically, she is referencing to Politifact.org here and FactCheck.org here. And look at the following excerpt from the Politifact.org article:

The exact same notice appeared the following day in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. The numerous birth announcements above and below the Obama listing also were identical in both papers, which were unaffiliated, competing publications.

Advertiser columnist and former Star-Bulletin managing editor Dave Shapiro was not at either paper in 1961, but he remembers how the birth notices process worked years later when both papers were jointly operated by the Hawaii Newspaper Agency — which no longer exists.

“Those were listings that came over from the state Department of Health,” he said. “They would send the same thing to both papers.”

So, a guy who didn’t work at either paper in 1961 remembers how the process worked years later???? Is this the proof that the Dept of Health sent the same thing to both papers? Is this another example of one source that is not confirmed becoming proof that is circulated?

Not only was the basis of Mr. Hoover’s Obama Indonesian birthplace claim a cursory search via Google but, as Mr. DeLay so aptly put it, a newspaper birth announcement is not an official document certifying anything about anyone. [that's the main issue. What kind of official body would satisfy itself with such a kind of "evidence"?]

If you connect the dots, you will see that everyone is ultimately pointing back to the “point man,” Mr. Hoover, who — while I hasten to add that he seems to otherwise be a capable reporter — has effectively based his research on absolutely zero hard, physical evidence (sorry, but images of alleged Hawaii Certifications of Live Birth are just that — images). And, as I’ve just stated, newspaper birth announcements prove absolutely nothing with respect to presidential eligibility.

Unfortunately, we are simply left following circular logic with respect to this President’s eligibility. The only thing that has ever been “released” is an image of an alleged Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, and the document upon which the image is based has never been forensically investigated by experts. Further, even Dr. Fukino of the Hawaiian Department of Health only ever states that she has seen “vital documents,” not an actual “birth certificate,” per se.

and incredibly the first thing I found said Obama was born in Indonesia! Hey, it looked factual (apparently it was from a site trying to discredit Obama’s Hawaiii origins – so much for trusting Google).

Why would a site be trying to discredit Obama’s Hawaii origins in January of 2006? If it is true, Obama’s birthplace being Indonesia, was the first hit, why would that be true? Why wouldn’t Honolulu be the first hit? Google was in on a conspiracy to discredit Obama? That is what Hoover is saying? And he is the point man for Politifact.

Update: Apparently, there are folks who don’t quite get the significance of this posting yet. Therefore, “Sharon 2″ has once again summed things up quite succinctly:

You didn’t get the point at all. First, Hoover used the internet to verify where Obama was born, taking the first hit as proof, without even considering the birth place listed was foreign. He then tells Phil that the information likely came from a site dedicated to discrediting that Obama was born in Hawaii and that he should not have trusted GOOGLE! Come on, Sus, who is claiming a conspiracy here? There was no presidential campaugn happening then. In the research of his article, he used as evidence an editor who did not work for either Hawaii paper in 1961 but remembered years later what the process was for birth announcements. This is not to say the process as described was not accurate, but what about any confirmation of the information? What Hoover wrote is then spread around as established fact.

It is I who have asked what microfilm Hoover looked at when a public citizen was directed by the Advertiser to go elsewhere for the notices of birth. Were they available to Hoover? If not, why didn’t the Advertiser have them? If so, why was another citizen sent elsewhere for the notices?

Sunday, August 30 Update: I was able to receive a response from Mr. Hoover regarding any sort of correction to the story upon which my posting was originally based:

I was writing a deadline piece when your original email came in on Friday. It was among several emails I received on the subject, and yours was the only one I had time to answer in any detail. When I finished the deadline story, I officially started my vacation. I am packing my bags right now to fly to the Mainland for several weeks. But I ran across your follow-up email at home. I checked our online archives to find the original Tammy Duckworth article. I was surprised to see the article didn’t include the correction I thought would be there. I recall getting calls and emails after the story ran from readers who wanted me to know Obama had been born in Hawaii. Plus, I remember an editor telling me about the error. In those heady days, the Honolulu Advertiser had a full-time correction police editor who was relentless in quickly publishing corrections in the paper. Usually those corrections were also attached to the archive versions — but not always. Unfortunately, because of the financial crunch, many employees who were with the paper in 2006 have been laid off. That list includes the corrections editor. It also includes the “copy boy” who I believe routinely saved each edition of the paper. I don’t know if that stash still exists. If it does, I’ll be happy to sort through it when I return to find the correction. Yours humbly… Will

I responded back to Mr. Hoover thanking him for taking the time to respond and that I’d be looking forward to additional information. I also asked him to forward any information he had with respect to his looking at microfilmed birthplace announcements (such as exactly where he researched these).

While I am honored that Mr. Hoover would take the time — immediately before a vacation — to respond to my email (perhaps I’m the only one asking specific questions regarding this issue?), I am merely a concerned citizen reporter who finds this response to be exceptionally coincidental.

Who would have thought that such a scenario existed that there could potentially be no follow up correction to Mr. Hoover’s original story? What was another site doing on the Internet in very early 2006 that allegedly proclaimed Mr. Obama’s birthplace to be other than American?

Monday, August 31 Update: Commenter “MGB” was the first to point out the following (rounded out by “Sharon 2“) from MSNBC’s Hardball with Chris Matthews (here’s a link to a very large — 4MB — screen capture):

MATTHEWS: So, is Hillary backer Bob Kerrey pretending to sell Obama, but clearly putting the shiv in?

“I think the remarks were very positive. I know Bob. He was being very complimentary of Senator Obama. He was making a point that Senator Obama makes himself all the time, that, because of his upbringing and his heritage, he is, in his view”—“in his view”—catch that line—“very well-suited to communicate with the rest of the world. And he has just himself that he wants to have a particular outreach to the Islamic world. So, I think Senator Kerrey was being, you know, very generous in what he said.”

But didn‘t Hillary dump on Obama a few days ago for playing up his Indonesian roots? So, what is she up to here? Is she pushing how great he is for having been born in Indonesia, or what, or simply reminding everybody about his background, his Islamic background?

The same mistake by two different media personae. Also, this is a little trip down memory lane about the early relationship with Hillary and Obama. Maybe Matthews was claiming that HILLARY claimed Obama was born in Indonesia.

Since this is from 2007, we can only speculate that perhaps Mr. Matthews was using this point from Mr. Hoover, since clearly his 2006 piece was precedent for this time frame.

Again, the theory happens to be that what one reporter stated may have then become the point by further media personalities; otherwise, where did Mr. Matthews get his evidence?

And, of course, Ms. Pamela Geller of AtlasShrugs had the following posting from Friday, October 17, 2008 that pointed out that — even though it’s highly unlikely that Mr. Obama was actually born in Indonesia — the Indonesian government may have been “bought and paid for” to keep any further information regarding this President’s background from seeing the light of day:

Faleomavaega is a member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs and the House Committee on Natural Resources. What better fixer for Obama’s mop up in Indonesia?

Faleomavaega recently traveled to Indonesia to meet with government leaders and while there, he visited the school that Senator Obama attended when he was living abroad with his parents.Hmmmmm, that’s strange. Why would Faleo visit Obama’s madrassah. …

So what did the Red Godfather ask of his lackey Faleomavaega? Clean up Indonesia.

“Obama is Indonesian. American Expat in Southeast Asia, Larry Martin told me that his sources claim that Obama was adopted and that the Indonesian government is aware of this – so are Obama’s people who cut a deal with the Indonesian government to have the records suppressed.”

As American Expat in Southeast Asia, Larry Martin, has an excellent post up of Obama’s efforts to suppress Indonesian records and in the process throw the human rights of West Papuans under the bus. Sounds like yet another Obama Breach of the Logan Act (remember when he stabbed our boys in Iraq in the back?) and support of Genocide (www.westpapua.ca)

The evil one like his comrade Odinga will do anything to advance his Coup d’état [emphases original]

Maybe it was a site from Indonesia that Mr. Hoover first saw on Google way back 4 years ago…?

Note: I would like to thank commenter “Sharon 2″ for the fantastic, professional-level research that she has done in helping to craft this posting.

* Obama’s Presidential Eligibility: What You Need to Know * Obama’s Sealed Background Documentation * Newsmax.com: Obama Birth Certificate Not Released * What’s the Difference Between a Birth Certification Versus a BirthCertificate? * Keyes v. Lingle: Forensic Examiner and IT Expert Disprove Certification of Live Birth * Obama Citizenship Facts * The State Department and Sen. Patrick Leahy’s (D-VT) Natural Born Citizen Resolution (April 10, 2008) * Citizen Grand Jury Updates and Eligibility Lawsuit Listing

Let me see if I get the point of the article, since no one seriously alleges that Obama was born in Indonesia.

I think the point is, why did Hoover have to google it, why didn’t he search the birth announcements in his own paper? Is it implying the birth announcements were seeded into the record later and weren’t there at the time?

Or maybe it was just simpler for Hoover to google since he could do it from his desk and didn’t have to dig through a bunch of microfilm? If there was any chance the microfilm was altered at the public library, it would be interesting if he would compare his microfilm with what is available at the library, I suppose.

Vinnie, I suppose all this Indonesian stuff is interesting, but it is beside the main point. Obama is probably a US citizen of some sort ... what he is more than likely not is a "Natural Born Citizen," as required by the Constitution. That's because, all other interesting facts, factoids, and speculation aside, his father was not an American, nor ever an American citizen of any kind.

Had he been born in Hawaii, and then taken to Indonesia, he could easily and quite possibly become a dual Indonesian and American Citizen. Short of court-ordered discovery, we are never going to know because he doesn't want us to know.

Yeah Yeah Yeah, "He's hiding something!" NSS.

Bottom line: it can always be plausibly argued that he is a citizen because of his mother, however no matter where he was born, or where his mother took him, whether or not he is a Muslim or a Christian, etc. ad nauseam, what really remains is that he is in all likelihood, not a "Natural Born American Citizen."

So frickin' what? Until this gets into a court, or a state passes an Eligibility Law, all we have is public opinion in a country that looks to me to pretty much 50-50 on the issue.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2322467/posts?page=26#26

Here’s a new one: “Posted on: Sunday, January 8, 2006
Duckworth working to win - ... Duckworth is happy to point out that she and Hawai’i-raised Punahou graduate Obama have “a kama’aina connection.”

Both were born outside the country — Obama in Indonesia, Duckworth in Thailand — and graduated from high school in Honolulu — Punahou and McKinley, respectively.” http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Jan/08/ln/FP601080334.html

26 posted on August 23, 2009 8:28:32 AM EDT by PghBaldy (http://www.blackfive.net/main/2009/06/president-obama-visits-wounded-troops.html)
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I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that an official reporter can get access to newspaper microfilm that an ordinary citizen cannot. Taken at face value, this story essentially implies that the notices unearthed from the state library’s copy of the microfilms were identical to the notices obtained from the newspapers’ microfilms. This at least rules out one of the more imaginative explanations for these notices: that someone sneaked in and somehow manually edited the microfilm. Given that there likely dozens of copies of these microfilmed records scattered at various research libraries across the country (including, for example, Library of Congress, I would guess), it never made sense to me that such a forgery would be attempted much less executed without detection.

On a related point, I’ve never spent a day in Hawaii, but I’ve worked in large government bureaucracies, including those housing Vital Records offices, so I’m familiar with their SOPs. It’s pretty obvious that Vital Records put out some sort of standard press release or listing of all the births recorded in city (or county) X during the preceding week (or whatever time interval there was between press releases). This accounts for why 2 different papers simply printed the info in identical order and it also accounts for why the twins whose birth certificates were filed or approved after Obama’s likely didn’t show up until the next week’s list.

The foregoing in no way rules out the possibility that Obama’s grandmother or mother filed for a birth certificate for a birth that occurred outside Hawaii. But any alternative story of where Obama was born has to accept these newspaper notices about his birth as genuine rather than additional forgeries etc. To me the recent news that Obama’s grandmother lived at the address listed confirms their legitimacy. Especially given the presence of a guest house out back, it’s highly plausible that Obama’s mother would have lived with her parents especially in the latter days of pregnancy.

She and Barack Senior allegedly got married in Feb., Barack born early August and then as best we can tell she was IMMEDIATELY off to Seattle to take fall classes. So it’s pretty obvious from this change of events that there was a rather severe falling out between the 2. The parents clearly weren’t particularly pleased with the situation their daughter had gotten herself into, so in that context, it’s hard to imagine they’d keep bankrolling an apartment for her (since she was enrolled in school in Hawaii after Fall 1960) when they had a perfectly good place for her to stay rent-free etc.

That we dont even know now is the Gray Communist is an Indonesian citizen or where the newspaper announcements have actually be found is just another consequence of what constitutes the core of the Certifigate scandal:

no reliable, serious, legal, “forensic”, procedure has ever been applied to determine in a credible manner whether the so-called “President” is even a U. S. citizen.

All has been diverted into debates about “images” on the Internet, while those who tried to remind others about what the normal thing to do is were ridiculed, and major search engines made sure to degrade the ranking of the researches made by Jerome Corsi and the WND team when the issue became the subject of public debate.

This is the kind of manipulation an institutionalized legal procedure would have avoided, but instead that part of the Constitutional order has relied on a expectation of honesty from party officials which seems to be centuries away from the mindset of the Nancy Pelosies and the Howard Deanses.

Of course institutional anti-white racism has also played a major part in the question not being asked in time by the dominant media or politicians.

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