Posted on 12/30/2009 4:51:48 PM PST by Publius804
It appears that some state and county Tea Party groups are trying to cleanse their ranks of libertarians. That's a shame since the movement started with Ron Paul and his libertarian followers, and was then co-opted by mainstream GOP Sean Hannity types.
Lawrence Samuels, editor of Facets of Liberty: A Libertarian Primer and participant in the Monterey County Tea Party, is witnessing the purge firsthand:
[A]fter a successful 4th of July Tea Party parade and Freedom Rally in Monterey, the cracks in the alliance split wide open. I was accused of belonging to too many leftist organizations. In fact, I am co-chair of the local Libertarians for Peace, which joined the 27-member Monterey County Peace Coalition to protest the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. But Libertarians for Peace is neither Left nor Right….
Obviously, the Tea Party conservatives were neophytes; never before had they been involved in political activism. Some had never heard of Congressman Ron Paul. Prof. David R. Henderson, one of the libertarian Tea Party Board members, described this curious phenomenon as "activism without ideals." I thought my phrase captured it best: "a cause without a rebel." In fact, as demands to purge the libertarians intensified, we got the distinct feeling that the purgers fit the category of "reactionary" since they seemed to know only what they were against, not what they were for. Amazingly, they never pointed out any philosophical differences that they found objectionable. It was as if they were devoid of ideas, marooned with empty rhetoric and no real solutions….
In retrospect, it did not help our case when we asked these rookies embarrassing questions. We asked them why they had done nothing when President Bush bailed out the banks and auto companies, spent money like a drunken sailor, bashed civil liberties and advanced socialized medicine with Medicare Prescription Drug law, a program that some in Congress estimated will have a price tag of $1.2 trillion by 2016. I suppose our questioning merely rubbed their noises too deeply in their ignorance.
You can read his entire account here.
If the Tea Party movement is to function merely as the activist wing of Republican talk radio, it won't get very far.
Sounds good to me!
Yes, Rick Santelli christened the name but by and large the movement was already underway during Paul's presidential run.
Ron Paul? Sheesh, his minions need to give it a rest.
Say what you want about him but he was the only Republican to bring in younger voters and small gov't voters back into the GOP.
The tea parties need to be about principles not party
All anyone needs to know about Ron Paul that it was his camp that gave the "code pinkers" the Convention tickets that they used to protest both McCain and Palin when they delivered their speeches.
Paul has WAY too much Ross Perot in him. After a while, they really start to believe some of their own BS.
*ping*
Stop promoting this lie - I already called you on the carpet for it before.
You know those kooks were trying to exploit Paul's campaign and only represented a fraction of his overall support
I don’t bitch when republicans lose. Many of them are too far to the left as well.
I voted for Keyes this last time, and things are going pretty much exactly as I expected. Unemployment and housing bubble included.
The tea party movement is inspiring conservatism.
And really, the country isn’t worth saving without a return to conservatism.
I agree with the sentiment but the movement did not start with Ron Paul and his followers as far as I know.
>> What is this guy smoking?
I guess it’s not a movement until you stick a label on it. /s
Why not point to the movement Jim Thomson started in the late 90s? Or, the movement Rush started in the 80s?
Maybe the movement is really the continuum of that which began through the courage of our Founding Fathers - better yet, the teachings and sacrifice of Christ.
And let’s not forget, the swingin’ indies put Obama into office.
I thought it started with Freedom Works, Dick Armey’s organization. Along with spontaneous local tea parties. The one in the Tucson area is unaffiliated, but the local Republicans have been very involved.
Along with Smart Girl Politics
[If the Tea Party movement is to function merely as the activist wing of Republican talk radio, it won’t get very far.]
agreed!!!
we have groups right now trying to destroy the movement because they’re afraidYou are right. And in one sense the author of this article is right. The anti-tax, anti-socialism, anti-surrender-to-Islam movement needs to coalesce around a single leader.
And that single leader is not going to be Ron Paul. For one reason, he's not willing to even recognize, let alone stand up to, the threat of Islamofacism.
For another reason, c'mon, LOOK at the guy. Listen to him speak.
We need a LEADER... not a... well, never mind...
And we have a leader, don't we?
And I don't need to say the name, do I?
True, but without these supporters, the GOP can't win. Which is why Orrin Hatch begged Paul to endorse McCain.
Huh? Sarah Palin trumps all Republicans in that regard.
Sarah Palin praised Paul before.
Good plan.
The last thing this growing movement needs is a bunch of selfish disruptors, dismissive of everyone else.
Wonder why the PaulBots arn’t bragging up Ron Paul’s
recent comments that we were attacked because we are occupiers. “Imperial America”
He has a 6 min you tube and rants on between neo left propaganda and
Alex Jones - Lew Rockwell propaganda
“I love peace who doesn’t love peace?”
Screw peace, let’s have war!
Only? That's a stretch. And using small government and GOP in the same sentence is nearly an oxymoron. ;^)
“Libertarians are not the enemy right now.”
They are just as much an enemy as the democraps.
Motives?
Ron Paul has built a nice little movement (and industry) around his name (as have a lot of other conservative 3rd party movements.) Now comes the Tea Party movement that threatens to unite those upset about the current political situation under a common banner (leaving most conservative third parties as well as Ron Paul’s little movement unneeded and unfinanced.)
It’s not surprising to see those that have a lot to lose (like Paul’s movement) trying to either sew discord or take over the Tea Party movement.
I have a lot of Ron Paul supporters in my district (I’m an LD chair) and they’ve been very active and helpful supporting conservative Republicans.
The concept of speaking softly with a big stick holds more power then when using it on the diplomacy front.
We are not even fighting the right war in the Middle East. When these wars are over Islam will be left in power and that proves we have no idea who the enemy is.
Then we elected a stealth Muslim/Marxist. This reminds me of how a guy getting his head cut off with a chain saw in his building after a major argument with a developer wanting him out of the building the police labeled it: non-suspicious (we have no clue.) At this point it is just a matter of time before the inevitable happens.
More GOP idiots stuck on stupid.
The independents are needed; wise up.
Thank you. This is why we lost the last election - too many different little groups calling each other names & demanding 100% agreement. The ONE thing we all have in common is a belief in SMALLER government - isn't it? This is our strength.
Stop this kindergarden name-calling and lets stick together, we'll never agree on everything!
A lot of people are trying to co-opt/claim traditional American values but really don't share them.
Libertarians are just a bit off the beam. But they are a whole lot better than others.
However, they don't own nor did they start the modern Tea Party movement.
I’m a Tea Party participant. I never checked party affiliation of others though I have my suspicions. Members of any party are welcome to join us remembering that we do not answer to any party. We are issue advocates who may also just happen to work with one party or another.
Some aspects of foreign relations require our involvement as a matter of self defense, but I think reasonable people can find room to agree on major issues here.
Altogether I find myself leaning more Libertarian than scumbag, corrupted Republican these days. I have not registered as a Republican in my new home. It may never happen. I will be reviewing the voter laws in the next month and finally decide.
To hell with all leftists, Democrat and Republican alike.
Libertarians should be expelled from the conservative movement because it is a hollow philosophy:
The issue that unites Christianity and Ayn Rand’s Objectivism is that indeed objective moral value exist (Romans 1). But Rand’s libertariansim is actually borrowing from Christianity. See our articles at http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-truth/questions-of-christians/why-do-you-believe-in-objective-moral-values.
But the fatal flaw of Rand’s philosopher is exceedingly simple. As Dostoevsky said, “Without God, all things are permitted.” The atheist/agnostic cannot escape the problem of an objective source to define morality. And they cannot answer the question, “If I can improve my situation today by being immoral, even breaking my own moral code, why should I be moral today?”
When Rand says, “Men must deal with each other as traders not as looters and parasites.”—why MUST we? Says who? MUST is only something conjered up in Rand’s mind. If a man is as free as Rand says, there is no objective MUST. Ultimately morality is determined by whoever has the most political power.
The Declaration of Independence puts and end ot libertariansim.
In more modern thought, regarding happiness as put by Rand, William Lane Craig in his book REASONABLE FAITH explains that when our relationship with God is intact, the product in our lives will be righteousness (Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 6:16), and the by-product of righteousness is happiness. Happiness is an elusive thing and will never be found when pursued directly. It springs into being as one pursues the knowledge of God and as his righteousness is realized in us.
The libertarian philosophy of Objectivism is not unlike Darwinism. Both are weak philosophies, existing largely without reason or evidence, to justify life without God.
Objectivism makes as much sense as Scientology or Mormonism. Read L. Ron Hubbard’s book DIANETICS or THE BOOK OF MORMON and compare to ATLAS SHRUGGED.
They are some of the same PaulBots I have delt with before.
Paul already ranting we were attacked because we are occupiers and calls us Imperial America.
Listen to some of his You Tubes.
There are other threads up with many others who agree with me.
If not Paul, then who?
It sure as Hell wasn't Fred Thompson's campaign that inspired people to make their own signs and purchase a blimp to advertise for the election.
Plus you forget the money bombs (again, created by Paul supporters and are being used by other Republican candidates) that began on Nov 5th and Dec 16th, 2007.
So there!
“When Paul ran for President, he inspired people. “
BWAAAAAAHHHAAAAAAA
Ron Paul is NOT a kook. He forecast numerous problems politically and financially that have in recent months come to fruition. I don't agree with his stance on war, but the majority of what he says is well worth a listen. Many who post on FR are supporters of Ron Paul. He's a frequent guest of Glenn Beck as well, and many of us here on FR watch Glenn Beck as well. Just saying.
Your statement helps explain why Doug Hoffman lost in NY this year.
The talking heads of the GOP supported the wrong horse, or should I write, they supported a jackazz.
Dividing the party will only allow more democrats to win in 2010.
I'm already seeing the GOP talking heads supporting the wrong candidates again.
I'll support the guy that McCain and Newt aren't supporting.
“And this is what will cause us to lose in 2010 and 2012. Infighting in conservative groups and infighting in the GOP.
Libertarians are not the enemy right now. We have our differences but the fight with libertarians can wait until we get these commies out of office. Lets fight smart.”
That is the TRUTH.
Well, it seems to me that if a little ole Tea Party could wreck the established “R” 3rd parties then thats their problem. This is bigger and broader and just a what we need at this time. They need to take a deep breath and chill. This Tea Party thing is new and fresh and there are no skeletons, hell there isnt even a leader.
BINGO! Rick Santelli, CNBC On-Air Business News Editor.
I don't have a problem with social conservatives until they start with the holier-than-thou, nanny-statist crap! I want to focus on limiting government and reducing spending first and foremost. This is what libertarians want as well.
STOP BASHING LIBERTARIANS. WE NEED THEM TO FIGHT THE SOCIALIST, MARXIST PIGS
And Rick Santelli, no?
Bald-faced lie.
The Tea Parties, the people who protested Obamacare in Town Halls in August, who protested the porkulus...are all remnants of supporters of Paul’s campaign. The GOP and mainstream conservatives had nothing to do with it.
__________________
Don’t know about you, but the first tea party event early this year in Ft. Worth had absolutely nothing to do with Ron Paul...if it had, I wouldn’t have gone. As much sense as Ron Paul makes on some issues, he has the most goofball idea about the War on Terror...
"You can accomplish much if you don't care who gets the credit." - Ronald Reagan
"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." - Harry S Truman
"No man will make a great leader who wants to do it all himself, or to get all the credit for doing it." - Andrew Carnegie
"The world is divided into people who do things, and people who get credit. Try, if you can, to belong to the first class, there is far less competition." - Dwight Morrow
Ron Paul, Rick Santelli, Glenn Beck, Dick Armey with FreedomWorks, The whole gang at Americans for Prosperity...etc. Tell me which one of these could have done it all alone. Give the Paulites credit for what they've been doing for years. Rick Santelli's rant was a spontaneous and dramatic. Glenn Beck's 912 project was named for 9 principles and 12 values but just happened to be the date of the largest rally of the many as we marched on the Capitol. FreedomWorks was a major player in the big rally. AFP has been doing this since 2004.
If folks sharing the issue advocacy are being excluded I have a problem with that. If folks are trying to hijack the movement to float their party platform they are dead to me.
That $20 million Dr. Paul raked in 4th Quarter of 2007 was s--ts and giggles then?
My gesture to Paulie and his Paulibots is the same one my cat uses in his litter box.
Their anti war, American bashing with Marxist talking points.
I have relatives in Iraq and AFghn. I don’t
appreciate Ron Paul calling them occupiers when they are fighting IslamOfasciasts.
Domestic policy, economy means nothing if and when the IslamOfascists take over.
There were Tea Parties held in 2007 during Paul's campaign.
Spontaneous rallies for Paul which picked up steam after the Iowa Straw Poll.
You're behind the times
As much sense as Ron Paul makes on some issues, he has the most goofball idea about the War on Terror
It's not his foreign policy that people have been inspired by him on.
It's his straight-forward, black-and-white stand on limited government and civil liberties.
When was the last time you heard a Republican call for abolishing whole departments and agencies, as well as the income tax?
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