Posted on 01/11/2010 9:46:53 AM PST by FromLori
I wasn't aware of this Exemption from Obamacare were you?
HEALTH REFORM: People with religious objections can opt out Federal health care reform will require most Northern New Yorkers — but not all, it turns out — to carry health insurance or risk a fine. Hundreds of Amish families in the region are likely to be free from that requirement.
The Amish, as well as some other religious sects, are covered by a "religious conscience" exemption, which allows people with religious objections to insurance to opt out of the mandate. It is in both the House and Senate versions of the bill, making its appearance in the final version routine unless there are last-minute objections.
Although the Amish consist of several branches, some more conservative than others, they generally rely upon a community ethic that disdains government assistance. Families rely upon one another, and communities pitch in to help neighbors pay health care expenses The Amish population has been growing in the north country, as well as in New York generally.
The state ranks sixth nationally in Amish population and posted the biggest net increase in Amish households — 307 — from 2002 to 2007, according to the Young Center for Anabaptist and Pietist Studies at Elizabethtown College in Pennsylvania. Lawmakers reportedly included the provision at the urging of Amish constituents, although the legislation does not specify that community and the provision could apply to other groups as well, including Old Order Mennonites and perhaps Christian Scientists.
A professor and lawyer at Yeshiva University in New York complained last summer that exempting groups for religious reasons could run afoul of the Constitution. Marci A. Hamilton, who teaches at the University's Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law, wrote at Findlaw.com in August, "If the government can tolerate a religious exemption, then it must do so evenhandedly among religious believers with the same beliefs.
This is sheer favoritism for a certain class of religions, or even for one religion." In her column, Ms. Hamilton speculated that lobbyists for the Christian Science Church were responsible for the provision, given their public stance that health care reform bills around the country should include religious exemptions.
In an e-mail message Friday, she said she was unaware of the Amish interest in the bill and that their objections to the mandate surprised her because the Amish do buy vehicle insurance, for instance. Ms. Hamilton said the exemption could harm the health of children whose families avoid medical care for religious reasons, although the Amish objections relate more to insurance than to medical care itself
Congressional aides said the exemption is based on a carve-out the Amish have had from Social Security and Medicare taxes since the 1960s. Whether Amish businesses, however, would fall under the bill's mandates is still an open question. Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y., who was a key negotiator on the Senate bill, supports the religious exemption, said a spokesman, Maxwell Young, who called the provision a "no brainer."
I doubt many people will be willing to change their Religious beliefs but I do see this as a possible way to Beat The System just like Obama and our Congressional Representatives seem to be able to do by not mandating they be forced to participate in the same crap they are shoveling off on the populace!
YEP....I thought about that last week when I heard about the Amish exemption.....
I don't practice the same brand of Christianity that Harry Reid and Barack Obama do, the one where it is "Christian" to pay more to the government to see that poor people get medical coverage.
My bible teaches me that there is no charity in forced taxation.
So I take the religious exemption because I do not follow the State's Christianity as espoused by President Obama.
I'm glad that at least one religious group acts on this belief.
Maybe you can change your ethnicity- certain ethnic groups are also excluded (Eskimos)
Sure, this will stand up in USSC
The list, ping
We need tens of millions of people to tell the government to take a flying leap.
“Congressional aides said the exemption is based on a carve-out the Amish have had from Social Security and Medicare taxes since the 1960s”
Do the Amish not have to pay this in ? Hell I think I might be qucikly becoming Amish if that’s the case.
Found this....
Do the Amish pay taxes?
Self-employed Amish do not pay Social Security tax. Those employed by non- Amish employers do pay Social Security tax. The Amish do pay real estate, state and federal income taxes, county taxes, sales tax, etc.
The Amish do not collect Social Security benefits, nor would they collect unemployment or welfare funds. Self sufficiency is the Amish community’s answer to government aid programs. Section 310 of the Medicare section of the Social Security act has a sub-section that permits individuals to apply for exemption from the self-employment tax if he is a member of a religious body that is conscientiously opposed to Social Security benefits but that makes reasonable provision of taking care of their own elderly or dependent members. The Amish have a long history of taking care of their own members. They do not have retirement communities or nursing homes; in most cases, each family takes care of their own, and the Amish community gives assistance as needed.
Back to the top of the page.
Is it true the Amish are exempt from Medicare and Medicaid withholding? What legal basis is used for this?
Medicare and Medicaid are a part of the Social Security system. Old Order Amish believe that if the church is faithful to its calling, many government programs and commercial insurance are not needed. That conviction forced them to testify before Congress because they did not want to receive Social Security benefits. What they wanted instead was the right to look after their own elderly. They were finally given approval, if self-employed, to be exempt from paying the tax. Seldom do Old Order Amish individuals accept Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid.
The doctors probably instigated this as here is the rub.
They can get cash up front for a small discount on the bill as they do now.
OR.....they can let the Amish get obamaic insurance and they will be paid less than medicaid and when ever the gubmint feels like it.
I have access to Amish clothes!!! Speak a little bit of English and a little bit of German. You’ll fit right in.
They are just normal people.
In regards to insurance being morally repugnant, I’ve always believed that insurance was no different than legalized gambling.
You place your wager (insurance premium) and transfer a risk (the odds of something bad happening) to the insurance carrier.
The exception to this analogy is life insurance.
A horse and buggy is still a vehicle.
My wife and I went down to Lancaster last year for a long weekend. While we were there we witnessed (pun intended) a horse and buggy blow through a red light. According the the B&B owners accidents between car and buggy are a common occurrence.
I wonder if people could actually do it after all many liberals have lied about religious objections to serving their country in the time of War?
There would also be strength in numbers.
I’m feeling really Christian Scientist about now.
Might have to go to a service here and there to maintain my exemption.
No problem.
things that make you say hmmmmm ping
I can grow a long beard and get a bowl over the head hair cut, plus a black hat and car if it helps beat the system.
There’s an Amish buggy for sale down in Knapp, Wi I was trying to talk my husband into buying it to put it out in the front for a lawn decoration lol maybe I’ll get it for another reason now.
A professor and lawyer at Yeshiva University in New York complained last summer that exempting groups for religious reasons could run afoul of the Constitution.
Forcing any citizen to purchase health insurance runs afoul of the Constitution.
Gee, I wonder which religion they really want exempted?
I figured I’d just start a union. Y’all are welcome to join, but do be aware that I will be in charge. There will be no collective bargaining, or dues, or political contributions, or, well, anything. Ever.
Can we make FreeRepublic a religion, and anoint Rev. JimRob?
It worked for L. Ron Hubbard and Jeremiah Wright.
Catholics need to be exempted to because of the abortion mandate. They can’t allow some groups to be exempted and not others! Another way that it is unconstitutional IMHO!
I could do Amish...do they have wifi? :)
This is ass backwards.
We don’t have to find some religion that says “I’m exempt”. The Democrats have stated repeatedly (including the President) that Obamacare MUST go through because it is our Christian obligation to do so. Except NOT EVERYONE is a member of the Democrats’ “Christian Church”.
The establishment clause PROHIBITS requiring people to belong to the State religion (or requiring all Americans to tithe on the obligations of that Church).
Regarding Amish customs - old order amish strict
beechy amish depends on the bishop’s views some do allow electricity
regarding mennonite, many do believe in electricity. have there own colleges and schools
seventh day adventist are vegetarians, services on Saturdays, woman wear their hair long, dresses do drive
and jehovah witnesses may have some exemption too. (some consider these seventh day adventists and jehovah witnesses to be cults)
church of christian scientology (ron hubbard founder, john travolta, tom cruise, will smith are principal backers of this religious view with deviations from medicine (cultic)
other options restart a huttererite religious sect (socialist)
restart a Amana colony ( socialist)
or start your own denomination, get others to sign up and declare yourselves free from society.
I also believe that the Native American Nations are exempt too. ( They are considered sovereign nations separate from the uS and the State.
Please note I am not endorsing anything just thought to have some thoughts on the topic. Basically there is a loophole that Obama has put in, the final bill has not even been written, so everyone really knows nothing because the bill is non existent and will only be written after its passage.
Who knows maybe the Amish and so forth will be penalized and placed in jail for their religious beliefs.
Regarding Amish customs - old order amish strict
beechy amish depends on the bishop’s views some do allow electricity
regarding mennonite, many do believe in electricity. have there own colleges and schools
seventh day adventist are vegetarians, services on Saturdays, woman wear their hair long, dresses do drive
and jehovah witnesses may have some exemption too. (some consider these seventh day adventists and jehovah witnesses to be cults)
church of christian scientology (ron hubbard founder, john travolta, tom cruise, will smith are principal backers of this religious view with deviations from medicine (cultic)
other options restart a huttererite religious sect (socialist)
restart a Amana colony ( socialist)
or start your own denomination, get others to sign up and declare yourselves free from society.
I also believe that the Native American Nations are exempt too. ( They are considered sovereign nations separate from the uS and the State.
Please note I am not endorsing anything just thought to have some thoughts on the topic. Basically there is a loophole that Obama has put in, the final bill has not even been written, so everyone really knows nothing because the bill is non existent and will only be written after its passage.
Who knows maybe the Amish and so forth will be penalized and placed in jail for their religious beliefs.
Would Jesus pray to block health care for needy? (Two bag barf-alert)
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I am a Christian Scientist, and have belonged to the church since 1982. One post here needs an important correction: The church of Scientology is in NO WAY releated to or even similar to the “Church of Scientology”. And there is NO “Christian Scientology”. This is a huge and common error. Scientology does not claim to be, nor is it, a Christian denomination. Christian Science, on the other hand, was at one time huge movement which is founnded and based upon Christianity and Jesus Christ.
Sorry, I did not edit myself well. I meant to say that “The Church of Christ, Scientist” in Boston MA and its branches are in NO WAY even remotely connected to the “Church of Scientology” Scientology uses a name that seems to have the word “science” in it, but we are talking about 2 different universes here.
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