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What, Exactly, Do We Want to Restore America to?
Jeremy Sarber ^ | May 4, 2010 | Jeremy Sarber

Posted on 05/05/2010 9:30:54 PM PDT by NY Hockey Mom

There is no doubt that America is an extremely diverse nation of people. That is why it is so unfortunate to see our individual liberty slip away. We are slowly becoming a “mass of people” rather than a nation of individuals.

It also unfortunate the way political commentaries today measure the government in terms of political parties instead of political powers. The Founder Fathers would have considered our modern measuring stick meaningless. It is popular to classify the right as “Fascism” and the left as “Communism.” This way of thinking dates back to earlier European parliaments where Communists would often sit on the left side of the room while Fascists would sit on the right. Other parties would sit in the middle.

(Excerpt) Read more at jeremysarber.com ...


TOPICS: History; Politics
KEYWORDS: left; parties; politics; right

1 posted on 05/05/2010 9:30:54 PM PDT by NY Hockey Mom
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To: NY Hockey Mom

A land of self-determination and freedom, where socioeconomic classes exist, but all citizens have the opportunity to climb the ladder commensurate with their efforts.


2 posted on 05/05/2010 9:34:11 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: NY Hockey Mom
Just take us back 3 or 4 years. No Obama, no socialism, no gov in our every step.
3 posted on 05/05/2010 9:37:59 PM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.)
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To: NY Hockey Mom

It wasn’t perfect, but “pre-Obama” works for me.

We don’t need a “Reset” button, we need to do a “System Restore”, back to October 2008.


4 posted on 05/05/2010 9:42:04 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: JSteff

And that is why the left is winning. We think tactically while the left thinks strategically.


5 posted on 05/05/2010 9:42:47 PM PDT by MetaThought
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To: bigbob
See my #5
6 posted on 05/05/2010 9:44:35 PM PDT by MetaThought
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To: MetaThought

The left doesn’t think: it’s a loose knit collection of Ownways and Gimmes.


7 posted on 05/05/2010 9:45:21 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (The Quran and Mein Kampf: if you've read one you've read them both.)
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To: NY Hockey Mom

I would like to see #1, America’s justice system restored back to using the Constitution as our guidebook instead of case law. #2, have Congress and the Senate check that every Bill submitted to them has passed the Constitution test. #3, Have every political office set with TERM LIMITS.


8 posted on 05/05/2010 9:53:15 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Should people be questioning their government? Yes and "Where's the birth certificate?")
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To: NY Hockey Mom
This: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

More Specifically This:

Article I - The Legislative Branch

Section 8 - Powers of Congress


The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Thomas Jefferson's understanding of the enumerated powers:

"To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States, that is to say, "to lay taxes for the purpose of providing for the general welfare." For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless.

"It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please.

"It is an established rule of construction where a phrase will bear either of two meanings, to give it that which will allow some meaning to the other parts of the instrument, and not that which would render all the others useless. Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straitly within the enumerated powers, and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect."


9 posted on 05/05/2010 9:54:04 PM PDT by dajeeps
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To: Psycho_Bunny

Nonsense. That’s merely what they want you to think. There’s a lot of strategic planning there, but they also encourage an entitlement mentality because it works in their benefit.


10 posted on 05/05/2010 9:56:37 PM PDT by MetaThought
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To: bigbob
I think we need a reset button to before http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Direct_Election_Senators.htm
11 posted on 05/05/2010 9:57:08 PM PDT by ronnietherocket2
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To: JSteff; NY Hockey Mom

Take us back to the end of WW2 and nip all of this in the bud by nuking the Soviets. Or back to McCarthy and actually listen to the man.


12 posted on 05/05/2010 9:59:48 PM PDT by SirLurkedalot (Where'd all the "Dissent is the Highest Form of Patriotism" bumper stickers go?)
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To: NY Hockey Mom

Looks identical to Glen Beck’s version he did 6 months ago, excepting he put the original Constitution closer to anarchy. If the blogger watches Beck, then this is just a copy of that. If not, then I guess great minds think alike. Because his drawing with Fascism/Socialism near tyranny and the Articles of Confederation near anarchy is a clone of Beck’s drawing. Beck went further and tied this to “libertarianism” showing the anarchic libertarians vs the totalitarian libertarians.

I’ve learned more from watching Glen Beck’s show than any other single source of information after Free Republic. I have learned more here but had to work a lot harder to cull all the crap here that clouds the few compelling news articles daily. Becks show is a lot less work, and with a DVR I can fast forward, I can skip his preaching and go right to the hard information. Some shows lack it but not many. He is all over the massive profit cap and trade will provide for Soros/Obama’s den of Thieves.


16 posted on 05/05/2010 10:11:14 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Bye bye Miss American Freedom. When did we vote for Communism?)
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To: ourcountryback

Both, actually.


17 posted on 05/05/2010 10:14:10 PM PDT by SirLurkedalot (Where'd all the "Dissent is the Highest Form of Patriotism" bumper stickers go?)
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To: NY Hockey Mom

“There is no doubt that America is an extremely diverse nation of people.”

It sure didn’t start that way. This is from Federalist #2, written by John Jay:

“With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people — a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence.”


18 posted on 05/05/2010 10:17:32 PM PDT by Pelham (Obamacare, the new Final Solution.)
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To: NY Hockey Mom
It is popular to classify the right as “Fascism” and the left as “Communism.”

Except that in today's world, it is the Left who are the Fascists, Socialists, and Communists. The nanny-staters are on the Left.

20 posted on 05/05/2010 10:31:08 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: ourcountryback

In Obama’s presidency, no. Over the last hundred years or so, since FDR, overall the shift has been leftward. Think strategic, not tactical.


21 posted on 05/05/2010 10:36:06 PM PDT by MetaThought
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To: ourcountryback

And what brings you to that conclusion ? Cuba was quite prosperous before the revolution.


23 posted on 05/05/2010 10:50:53 PM PDT by MetaThought
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To: ourcountryback

Tell the 100 million plus dead that communism is just a “paper tiger”.


24 posted on 05/05/2010 10:55:21 PM PDT by SirLurkedalot (Where'd all the "Dissent is the Highest Form of Patriotism" bumper stickers go?)
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To: ourcountryback

Sympathizers and spies kept selling us out to the USSR, and kept it going for quite a while.


25 posted on 05/05/2010 11:02:38 PM PDT by MetaThought
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To: pieceofthepuzzle; Tijeras_Slim

A 59 cent miller high life and green chiles for the masses!


29 posted on 05/06/2010 12:04:49 AM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: ourcountryback

I think they think they are winning, due to thirty years of public school indoctrination and non-teaching of historical facts. However, Middle Earth, oops, Middle America, still has an intrinsic faith in mankind to do the RIGHT thing in all situations. Play fair, Share with others, Do unto others, etc. Of this the liberal pablum will never overcome. It is set in the hearts of man by his Creator....and Obama and his Communist buddies will never overcome this.


30 posted on 05/06/2010 12:06:20 AM PDT by Semperfiwife (Is Drill, Baby, Drill now Walk, Baby, Walk???? Are politicians walking now????)
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To: ourcountryback

What’s it like to live in your own little troll world ?


31 posted on 05/06/2010 12:33:12 AM PDT by MetaThought
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
Looks identical to Glen Beck’s version he did 6 months ago, excepting he put the original Constitution closer to anarchy.

He really did that? Its not true of course. Property owners wrote the constitution and they did it in response, in part, to Shay's Rebellion which was anarchistic. They feared licentiousness, the mob and democracy more than they feared a monarch or judges. The other angle is the constitution protected state laws which today would be considered a violation of so-called "civil liberties" (a phrase found nowhere in the constitution, the English common law, Blackstone or the Federalist papers).

32 posted on 05/06/2010 12:42:55 AM PDT by Brugmansian
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To: Brugmansian

Beck never said we were close to anarchy.

The article shows a drawing with fascism and communism close to the left side which is complete covernment control. The right side is complete freedom, or anarchy. They put the Constitution in the middle.

I was pointing out that Beck made the same exact illustration 6 months ago and that this blogger seems to have gotten the idea from him. The ONLY difference is, rather than putting the Constitution (symbolizing US Federalism of 1790 or so) in the middle between complete government control and complete anarchy, Beck had shown it at about 1/4 to 1/3 from anarchy and 2/3 to 3/4 from complete government control.

In other words, our government under the constitution had extremely limited Federal government control.

So my point is, the illustration on the blog is identical to what Beck did months ago, with one minor exception that Beck shows even less governent control than the blogger is showing.

I had 2 points:

1 - Beck seems to be way out in front of most everyone, who pick up his ideas as their own much later.

2 - The blogger seems to have been influenced by Beck’s old drawing.


33 posted on 05/06/2010 12:57:18 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Bye bye Miss American Freedom. When did we vote for Communism?)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

Yes, it seems derivative. What bothers me is a notion is being propagated that the founding era was some libertarian utopia, a golden age when everyone could do whatever they damn well pleased. What they miss is the limits on the Federal government were put in place to protect state laws which were anything but libertarian. Some of the first Federal laws were draconian too. It was a death penalty offense to interfere with the postal service.


34 posted on 05/06/2010 1:04:46 AM PDT by Brugmansian
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To: bigbob
We don’t need a “Reset” button, we need to do a “System Restore”, back to October 2008.

That's a great way to phrase it, but I'd set the System Restore date back to about 1900.

That would disable a lot of the government created viruses and trojans that are killing our de-centralized processing units.

35 posted on 05/06/2010 1:18:46 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: ourcountryback
If communism was such an evil, piss poor way of allocating resources, why were they able to compete with capitalism for 50 years?

Pure, unreasoning, and unreserved force, applied by the suppressive totalitarian state apparatus onto the heads of every citizen.

36 posted on 05/06/2010 1:25:17 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Liberty Valance

Preach it!


37 posted on 05/06/2010 6:17:52 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Live jubtabulously!)
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To: NY Hockey Mom
There is no doubt that America is an extremely diverse nation of people. That is why it is so unfortunate to see our individual liberty slip away. We are slowly becoming a “mass of people” rather than a nation of individuals.

There is a direct correlation. Multiculturalism is Marxist tyranny.

38 posted on 05/06/2010 6:26:23 AM PDT by Altura Ct.
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To: ourcountryback

Individual liberty vs Governments boot on your throat.

Allocation of resources that I earn is MY job not the governments. To the extent that the American government is moving the governed toward the Communist model of collecting all resources and re-allocating them on our behalf - Communism most certainly is a problem in the USA.


39 posted on 05/06/2010 6:34:34 AM PDT by carmody
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To: NY Hockey Mom
It is popular to classify the right as “Fascism” and the left as “Communism

It is popular but it is also incredibly ignorant. Communism and Fascism are different sides of the same coin. The extreme right is not fascism but anarchy. As you move left you get greater levels of control over the people by a self selected elite.

40 posted on 05/06/2010 6:37:44 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (The problem with Socialism is eventually you run our of other peoples money. Lady Thatcher)
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To: NY Hockey Mom
The writer is a dunce if he thinks Fascism has anything to do with Conservatism.

The only difference between Fascism and Socialism is the fig leaf of private ownership of the means of production that are absolutely controlled and regulated by the Government.

The left like to paint anyone who opposes their socialist control as a Fascist, and try to claim that the Nationalist Socialist Workers Party (Nazi) were “right wing fascists”. To a hardcore leftist, anyone to the right of Stalin is a “Fascist”.

If socialism is communism sold by the glass, fascism is just a different flavor of whiskey in the glass. Same statist control, same anti-liberty position.

Lame blog from a lame writer with an intellectually retarded sense of history and politics.

41 posted on 05/06/2010 6:44:50 AM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: ourcountryback
Moral equivalence troll ping.

Communists killed their own citizens in a relentless battle to control and regulate every aspect of their lives.

War, disease, displacement, famine, U.S. citizens and the U.S. army killed millions of Native Americans; because they had the bad luck to be some of the last horticulturalists to be displaced by an agricultural society, as has been the trend in human history for the last few thousand years.

You may want to try some moral equivalence on the government system of absolute State control and the expansion and elimination of one culture over another; and that may wash in postmodern soft thinking idiot land; but that doesn’t fly around here.

42 posted on 05/06/2010 6:49:30 AM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: NY Hockey Mom

Restore it to 1950 minus Democrat Jim Crow laws.


43 posted on 05/06/2010 7:27:50 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
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To: ourcountryback

Term limits, (I favor no more than two terms) guarantees that there is not a senior crowd leading the government regime for thirty years.

How many years was Ted Kennedy a Senator? He was in the Senate since 1962. His immigration plan to bring 250,000 Somalians a year into the US every year was voted down numerous times before it finally was passed. Every city that is stuck with these uneducated, tribal idiots is suffering under the welfare costs. The people have no idea how to come from a third world grass hut community to a top of the world modern city. Their cultures do not blend with ours in the slightest yet we are expected to greet them as long lost relatives. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to retract such a law once it is established? It is frigging near impossible. When you are an established figure in government then you get to corrupt the system with tricks and sleight of hand moves.

I remember when the EPA was formed in 1970. That was fought over for at least 10 years before it passed. Bastards like Sen. Gaylord Nelson knew they had stuck a sword into the heart of the American economy. Senators Adlai Stevenson, Mathias, Percy, and Hubert Humphrey, were among the far left, knew that the socialists/communists were in the fight and winning serious battles. It was only a matter of time before they could do some serious damage to our rights and liberties.

I am also in favor of term limiting judges. One two year term and then a seven or ten year final term. The two years gives the people a chance to see whether he/she can do the job.


44 posted on 05/06/2010 11:05:28 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Should people be questioning their government? Yes and "Where's the birth certificate?")
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To: Brugmansian

Imagine the government acting today the way Washington halted the Whiskey Rebellion. The good old days weren’t always. I am not a libertarian, which is to say, I believe limited government has a vital role to play in society so we can co-exist with a minimum of physical, mental and financial damage to ourselves & others. But I do believe government is best that governs least. I would like to get back to that. I just don’t want to delve into socialism.

I never knew of Capital punishment for interfering with the post office. That is interesting.


45 posted on 05/06/2010 11:30:37 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Bye bye Miss American Freedom. When did we vote for Communism?)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
Heard Robert Bork one day say the response to the Whiskey Rebellion made the 10th amendment a dead letter in American constitutional law. Perhaps he was being hyperbolic. Your point is correct. Imagine that today (guess Little Rock would be the last major example of a similar action but by that time everyone just knew there was no point resisting).

Found the death penalty for messing with the delivery of mail in the Annals of Congress. I believe it was the first or second Congress which passed that law.

Jim Kalb wrote a piece while at Yale on colonial law which I can no longer find on the internet. Fascinating. Pennsylvania had some draconian punishments. The punishment for homosexuality was worse than for rape. Flogging, then ten years and sometimes the death penalty as I recall. Rape was, again from memory, five years.

46 posted on 05/06/2010 12:06:53 PM PDT by Brugmansian
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To: Brugmansian

We never learned this stuff in history class. I need to keep reading.


47 posted on 05/06/2010 4:11:42 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Bye bye Miss American Freedom. When did we vote for Communism?)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

We were cheated. In High School and in college. Thought I was fairly well set because I had read Kant, Nietzshe, Marx, Freud, Sartre, Marcuse and on and on. But they almost never gave the other side. All the instruction was within the leftist framework. A little Dostoyeski and Solzhenitsyn was all. Its a crime what they do. Thank god for the internet. I’ve learned more on it than I ever did in school.


48 posted on 05/06/2010 4:17:04 PM PDT by Brugmansian
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To: MetaThought

You are right.


50 posted on 05/07/2010 12:54:27 AM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.)
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