The Abandonment of Social Conservatism for Fiscal Conservatism

http://www.theignorantfishermen.com/2010/06/abandonment-of-social-conservatism-for.html ^ | 6/30/10

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

We citizens of America are in a fight for our life as a nation. Over the last 75 years we have witnessed a subtle and dramatic takeover of our Republic, which was founded on bedrock principles rooted in the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God. Social conservatism is also based on natural laws and moral absolutes instilled at the dawn of creation. Alarmingly, we are seeing conservatism being thrown violently overboard and subtly replaced with a progression of immoral laws rooted in secular humanism. This godless ideology is based on an adherence to unnatural laws of error that produce only decadence and anarchy. Our nation has fallen dramatically and exponentially in the past 50 years. It doesn't take an MSNBC anchor to comprehend this. These “fifth column secularists” are fully aware of this progression and are moving as fast as they can to transform our nation into their delusional, secular-socialist-utopian state.

What is even more troubling is the trend that exists in the Conservative movement of today. Many who identify themselves as “genuine Conservatives” are in fact nothing more than mere “fiscal Conservatives.” What is most disturbing is that on the current and important issues, it is readily apparent that most of these hold liberal views and base their values on a “morally relative” position. When “push comes to shove,” they are quite willing to abandon in a heartbeat core moral absolutes in favor of sound fiscal policies.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

Great quotes! Man... were those guys radicals.. lol... even to some who have added their “comment” to this post.

Thankd God for them. They had the vision.

http://www.learntheconstitution.com/five-thousand-year-leap.html

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

I see many social conservatives who don’t care if we have a large oppressive government as long as it oppresses the correct people

I disagree with that big time... Social conservatives want people to be delivered from their oppressive immoral consequences and be free. That is what social conservatism does. It gives the mechanics for a healthy society.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

AMEN! my brotha..

[Miztiki]

I strongly disagree. The writers of our Constitution clearly stated that it is only suitable for a morally upright people or it otherwise will NOT work.

And I agree. The morally abject use our laws (yes, our Constitutional laws) against us, to their advantage.

They now number just over 50% and are the majority in power.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

It use to be...

http://www.learntheconstitution.com/five-thousand-year-leap.html

Liberal Christianity without the True Gospel is called socialism or the New tone.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

I don’t quite get what your point was... not forsing any thing on any one... but.. Absolutes are absolutes. Truth is truth. Morality transcends the vain imaginations of godless man, and natural laws must always prevail as they are relevant and absolute... that’s what I’m saying..

[GonzoGOP]

I don’t quite get what your point was... not forcing any thing on any one... but.. Absolutes are absolutes.

It is the difference between teaching and forcing at the point of a gun. I can tell someone, if you do something immoral, bad things will happen (by the natural law) and nobody is going to help you. If the person continues with the behavior is question, bad things happen to them.

As for Absolutes, who's absolutes. Yours and mine are apparently quite different. If God shows up in person that's fantastic. But until then it appears that your point of view is that if you have the all the guns and all the money you get to tell me how to live my life and you will tolerate no discussion on the matter. Well that tends to put the absolute priority in my life of making darn sure I keep my guns and money as far away from your control as possible.

[Durus]

What do you strongly disagree with?

If people are immoral enough to ignore the law than no law will restrain them regardless of the law or the form of government. It is not unique to our republic.

If, as people here have claimed, our constitutional republic is the form of government inspired by word of God I would expect more Christians to understand the basic principles of constitution but an unfortunate amount don't. In fact I know people very knowledgeable concerning the bible that really don't grasp why we need a separation between church and state.

[Miztiki]

I disagree that the abondonment of the constitution is what destroyed out country most.

I say the abondonment of God’s laws concerning morality is what did it.

My reasoning is this: If all Americans were to adhere to the Constitution right now, we’d still be in a huge mess. Why? There’s nothing unconstitutional about the press having an agenda in their reporting. There is nothing unconstitutional about teachers having an agenda. There is nothing unconstitutional about Social Security or welfare or any number of laws and actions that are hurting our country.

So that is why I disagree. The fundamental problem with our country is that we have lost our understanding of right and wrong. We think of self and not the greater good.

I agree with the substance of your post I’m replying to though. And as a God fearing person, I also agree that there is a need for seperation of church and state. I hope to some day live in God’s kingdom, but that is something man cannot bring about.

[dila813]

Belief denotes faith in something that can’t be proven.

Knowledge is based in facts.

I don’t believe in these social conservative principles, I know they are true hard facts.

The fact is, the Social System is driven by human behavior that is provable and has been demonstrated repeatably. Without taking this into account, you can’t have fiscal conservatism because society breaks down and will raid the Treasury.

One can’t live without the other. They sustain each other.

[Durus]

Perhaps there is a root cause and I suggested one...but we have learned to ignore morality and the constitution.

If magically the American people were to wake tomorrow and decide to follow the constitution to the letter, after a brief time America would be great again. While there is nothing unconstitutional about the press having an agenda there shouldn't be either. If one is properly educated and knowledgeable then recognizing the partisanship of the press is simple and makes it merely an irritant. While there is nothing unconstitutional about teachers having an agenda, the way our educational system is run is unconstitutional. Social Security and Welfare are unconstitutional. This is exactly what I mean by people not understanding the basic principles of the constitution. Our government was given few and definite powers. All other powers are reserved to the states or to the people. There is no enumerated power to run education, social security, and the welfare system.

Advocating for the greater good is exactly what gains socialists power. Our government was formed for the following reasons

"
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

In order to complete it's objectives it enumerates (and by doing so limits) what powers we the people have ceded to our federal government. Among these are not the modern welfare state, social security or education.

[RightOnTheBorder]

“I disagree with that big time... Social conservatives want people to be delivered from their oppressive immoral consequences and be free. That is what social conservatism does. It gives the mechanics for a healthy society.”

Yes, but do you think you will achieve that goal by codifying morality into law and giving the government even more power over our lives? I want the US to return to it’s Christian roots but I believe that the way to do it is with less government, not more.

[Persevero]

“More law = less liberty and more gvt.

How conservative is that?”

That is untrue. Law does not restrict proper liberty.

Liberty is not the license to do whatever you please and to Hades with the consequences.

It is living in lawless anarchy that burdens a man. Anarchy is rule by thug.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

I totally agree.. I do also... and am trying to get others to see that reality...

D

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

I disagree.. Social conservative. is more pertinent. It that is held then the other will be intact. No so the opposite way around.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

We are long past the point of no return for America. we are now the radicals and the villains. so also the reality of who are founding fathers were and are. We are in a post Christian America. The social consquenses have all ready sink’k us... we are just a few years the most from going under like the Titanic did.

Absolutes are absolutes. Truth is truth. Morality transcends the vain imaginations of godless man, and natural laws must always prevail as they are relevant and absolute.

[RightOnTheBorder]

“We are long past the point of no return for America. we are now the radicals and the villains. so also the reality of who are founding fathers were and are. We are in a post Christian America. The social consquenses have all ready sink’k us... we are just a few years the most from going under like the Titanic did.”

If you truly believe this, then what is the point of discussing fiscal versus social conservatism?

[Miztiki]

What’s happening to our country is not a democrat vs republican thing, or a liberal vs conservative thing. It’s a good versus evil thing. I don’t think too many people realize that.

We are at war, and for now, the devil is winning.

There is no government on this earth, right now anyway, that offers us (you and I and those like us) the type of society we long for. The whole world is now so corrupt that there is no place left to run from it. The United States was, at one time, a place where you and I could find some hope, but those days are now gone.

We have no choice now but to wait until the kingdom of God is established. Sadly, I don’t think that is going to happen in our lifetime. Our only other hope is for massive changes of biblical proportions, something that just might happen in our lifetime. But I don’t think such a thing would be pretty, because birth is always preceded by labor pains.

The future terrifies me. All wicked societies throughout history have fallen, and we will too. I don’t see a Josiah on the horizon either. We are mortally wounded and we don’t seem to realize it.

[investigateworld]

Sad - but true bump.

[Miztiki]

I hope TIF doesn’t mind my reply, but I think the point is that, if we were to have a major revival of socially conservative values, we might be able to at least delay the inevitable fall of our country.

Will that happen? Probably not, and for two main reasons:

One, people don’t understand what has led us to where we are now, and two, people don’t realize how dangerously close we are to losing the battle for our country and all that it stands for.

The whole country will eventually become like San Fransisco (perversion), Detroit (crumbling poverty), the border region (divided allegiences), Chicago (corruption), Camden & St. Louis (crime), etc. We are at a tipping point, and it’s not tipping in our favor. Things have been consistently degrading over the past 75 years or so, NOT improving, in ALL aspects (apart from luxury, which is soon to become a memory, perhaps similar to the USSR.)

The Constitution was not created to govern an immoral people and is not capable of governing such a people. It’s only a matter of time. Our fiscal (money) situation is the LEAST of our troubles.