Posted on 08/13/2010 7:39:52 AM PDT by Daniel T. Zanoza
If companies, nurses, etc are doing that to patients then you are right, it is disgusting. I’ve never seen that in my practice. The patients comfort is the absolute top priority!
Unless they attempt to cheat death. Then they’re booted out the door.
“Some people are quite surprised to find out we took care of her for so many years, yet she didn’t have a penny to her name.”
You are my hero. God bless you for your sacrificial love. He took note of every single act you did for your mom.
I must respectfully disagree with your post but only because working in hospice I know that the individual patient never gives up their right to determine there healthcare/treatment.In fact, many patients on hospice do not sign a DNR waiver and are a full code nor do they have to sign one.I’ve. Admitted patients to hospice and then 3 days later they decide they do want to try chemo, etc. and they have every right to do so. I would never be involved with forcing a patient to do anything they didn’t want to do.
The agreements I’m familiar with from Michigan do just that. I had quite an in-depth discussion with a hospice nurse when discussing my dad entering hospice. My mother chose not to go with hospice for this very reason.
NJ has the same rule. When you sign up for hospice care, you agree not to seek treatment from anyone other than hospice, and you agree to receive only comfort care from hospice. A prognosis of death within six months is a requirement, along with your agreement not to try to improve your odds.
Your analogy is all wrong. It’s not the same as having an income while receiving food stamps. It’s the same as applying for a job while on food stamps. Do you think people should be kicked off the food stamp program for applying for a job? If not, then why should terminally ill people be kicked out of hospice for grasping at the remote hope of recovery?
No one is saying otherwise. The problem is that patients are not permitted to seek treatment for the terminal condition. They are required to agree, in writing, to give up any hope of recovery. They're denied comfort care unless they give up the fight. That is wrong. That is so wrong.
I practiced in Mississippi so I can’t really speak for Michigan. It is also possible the nurse wasn’t sure what she was talking about. I certainly hope Michigan is not like that. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that Terri Shiavo was on hospice. Actually from what I read about her condition, she shouldn’t have been because she was not dying. But it is also why removing her feeding tube and starving her to death was murder in my opinion.
You’re right about the fact that they have a choice to sign up for hospice or not. They are not forced to do so nor are they forced to stay on hospice. They are not denied comfort care if they choose to seek treatment for their illness. They can and do still receive comfort meds, etc through their physician. They just can’t be on hospice. I’m sorry I must not be doing a very good job explaining this.
Is hospice for patients who are terminal, or patients who agree to die? There is a difference. If a terminal patient signs papers agreeing to follow a course of treatment aimed at guaranteeing their death within six months, then they qualify for hospice. If the same patient, with the same terminal condition attempts to live, they don’t qualify for hospice. They will almost certainly die within six months despite their desperate attempt at benefiting from treatment, but they will die without hospice care because they refused to give up.
How about if instead of making them sign an agreement to cooperate with death, you let them stay in hospice as long as they’re terminal, and only boot them out of hospice when and if they are no longer terminal? Is that too much to ask?
My goodness! If you think that hospice is signing up to agree to die or to follow a treament that results in your death,then you must have had a horrific experience with hospice and I am so sorry. Hospice is nothing like you have described. Again, I am sorry you feel this way about hospice care. I can tell you that as a conservative christian I would never be involved with.anything you have described.
Does that mean that a terminal patient is allowed to get treatment for their terminal condition while receiving hospice care? Make up your mind. In some posts you claim they are, and in other posts you claim they aren’t. Either they are, or they aren’t. You can’t have it both ways.
I have really tried my best to explain this to you. You have you’re mind about hospice and obviously no one is going to change. I said that the symptoms are treated, maybe you could go back and read my posts again because I don’t wish to repeat myself. Hospice is palliative care, not curative. If you want curative, don’t get on hospice. If you want palliative, then you go with hospice. I’m sorry I can’t explain it any better than that. Although I do think you are unwilling to accept/believe anything I’m saying.
Hospice provides types of care that are simply not available to most people anywhere else. The myth is that its availability is based on the patient being terminal. Then why isn’t it available to terminally ill patients who are still getting treatment for their terminal disease? Why must the patient agree to give up trying to live?
Maybe I’m the one that’s not being clear. I don’t mean to suggest that hospice should provide chemo or other curative treatments. I just don’t think they should deny services to people who seek curative treatment while they’re dying. Knowing that you’re dying doesn’t necessarily mean that you want to die. I don’t think we should be denying comfort care to people who are dying, on the basis of whether or not they’re cooperating in their own demise. I think we should be allowed to fight against death without risking the comfort care we need. Hospice care should be provided to people who are dying, even if they don’t want to be dying. Even if they actively seek alternatives to dying. If they succeed in cheating death, then take them off hospice, because then they don’t need it. But if they fight against death, and they’re losing the battle, but still refuse to stop fighting, don’t deny them the care they need. I understand hospice is supposed to be palliative care for dying people, and they don’t provide curative treatments. That is not the issue.
Whenever mom acted embarrassed because of the things I had to do for her, I always reminded her she was doing me a favor by allowing me to earn jewels for my heavenly crown. That always made her smile.
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