Do you believe in God? Every time I answer the question honestly I lose friends. Still I tell the truth: I don’t believe in God. I don’t believe in the evolution either. I just believe we don’t have enough knowledge to know the world yet. Posted on 08/30/2010 7:28:32 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
Do you believe in God? Every time I answer the question honestly I lose friends. Still I tell the truth: I don’t believe in God. I don’t believe in the evolution either. I just believe we don’t have enough knowledge to know the world yet.
If you are still reading, I appreciate your tolerance.
Glenn Beck’s answer to America’s troubles is turning to God. Where does it leave us: the non believers? Beck’s solution reminds me of my godmother, who is a nun in an Eastern Orthodox Monastery on the Balkans.
When I visited her she answered every question I had with: you have to believe, you have to have faith, and you have to pray. That was the only answer to everything. She and Glenn Beck could be soul-mates.
She sensed it is hard for me to believe so she tried to teach me something simple: Just try to be good and keep praying ‘Lord forgive my sins’. That was kind of a ‘safety net’ advice she came-up with while trying to save my lost soul.
I think this is the answer: just be good. Do not lie, do not cheat, do not envy, do not steal, do not kill, respect your parents, do not idolize people, repent your sins and try to be good.
Does it really have to be in the name of God? Or just for goodness sake.
Mike Huckabee often says that if we agree on 7-8 things out of 10 – we still can be friends. Can God be one of the things we disagree on?
Half of the Americans don’t even agree on ‘do not kill’ and support abortions.
(Excerpt) Read more at bigbureaucracy.com ...
Many of us in Eastern Europe grew up non-believers. Yet, Stalin, Hitler, communism failed. Their actions were inhumane, criminal.
The US Constitution is made by man. God did not appear in front of the Founders to spell it to them. They were men guided by the moral principles of Judeo-Christian tradition.
However they accommodated people of all religions (and atheism is ruled to be one them)with freedom.
Men made and will continue to make a lot of rules in our country.
“Interesting! If most agree there is God, would that make those of us who disagree wrong?”
No, because whether you’re right or wrong is based on an objective fact, either there is a God or there isn’t, it is not determined by how many people agrees with you.
Now answer my question.
“You either believe in the existence of God or you do not. There is no middle position”
Thank you for being nice! I said it plainly: I don’t believe there is God. I believe the moral principles evolved in the society during thousands of years of debate and social experience. Christianity is a result of this debate, knowledge, observation. I believe we are not done debating, collecting knowledge and observing.
I have often seen the argument from atheists that religion is inherently dangerous and if we got rid of religion, there would be less human conflict.
In historical reality, though, the result is oppression and genocide.
I don’t believe the existence of God is an objective fact.
I don’t think those who like pork are wrong.
I believe religion is not dangerous. The opposite - it is inspiration for good in most cases. I respect people’s right to believe in God.
So question is, if you and I agree that killing someone to take their property is wrong, but another person comes along and thinks it’s perfecting fine, is he objectively wrong, or is he just like the person who prefers pork.
For me it is not self evident that killing someone is the same as eating pork (although Muslims may believe these two are very close).
I feel like I need a refresh course in logic to debate the issue.
I am a simple person. All I am saying it is not so easy to agree even on things that seem self-evident for many of us - like God, do not kill, do not eat pork etc.
Muslims believe God spelled the Koran to Mohammed. If we agree that jihad is wrong - can we be objectively right?
If you want to stop this debate to be resume a later date, I am fine with that.
I just want to leave you with this. Eventually, to defend the notion that there is no God, the atheist will be forced to also defend the notion that there is no objective right and wrong, or at the very least, we can never know what we do is really objectively right or wrong.
That really, your innate moral sense about the existence of right and wrong is actually, unbeknownst to you, your faith in the existence of a natural order.
I agree with your last statement. It is not easy to define objective right or wrong. Even with God, because different religions may be in disagreemnt.
I was hoping there is common sense and basic principles most of us agree on. It is just not so easy.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Have a good day!
But sin is not merely a wrong, it is a transgression of God's law, religious principle. I don't understand how one can not believe in God, yet accept that he must repent from sinning.
I accept those who do not profess a faith can be moral, decent, honorable people, that's not in question with me whatever. Just the repenting from sin specifically, this doesn't jive somehow.
I was raised in childhood with all the blessings of religion. Baptism,confirmation, the Creed, the Ten Commandments, etc.,etc. Through my life to now I have been in and out of the organized church and on and off as to religeous beliefs. Through many years of fortune and misfortune the realization has come to where I must for myself acknowledge the existance and presence of an overwhelming, controlling creation. I believe this is my God. He(from my religeous precepts) has an existance beyond mine. I can only deal with the matters relative to my creation. It is with these matters i.e. my life, that the presence of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit come into being. I accept my religion’s belief that Jesus is the way to the Creator/Father but I personalize Jesus as the human presence of the rightiousness of the Creator and the Holy Spirit as my link to Creation’s rightiousness.
My life has not always lived up to the rightious creation and I suspect that there are many humans who have or will be on a similar path to eternity.
I am open minded. I believe there is a possibility for me seeing the light one day. Many folks attest it is possible. My sister believes. As of right now the existence of God is not self evident to me.
I think that should not stay on our way to build a better country for our kids.
“I accept those who do not profess a faith can be moral, decent, honorable people, that’s not in question with me whatever. Just the repenting from sin specifically, this doesn’t jive somehow.”
My godmother insisted on the text of the prayer and she is a nun. Now that you pointed it out, may be “wrongdoings” would have been a better word for me to use in my case.
The biblical word ‘sin’ is an archery term, meaning you missed the bulls eye. Anything outside the bulls eye is a ‘sin’. For a Christian, a sin is defined as any instance we are not like Jesus who is our standard of perfection...therefore, all of man has sinned since there is only one Jesus.
There is a standard of man: laws, codes, measures, that are agreed upon so we can have order to our society. These standards are not subject to most people’s interpretation. A mile is an agreed upon distance that is not subject to interpretation. We all agree it is a specific distance.
Man’s laws do not and can not dictate thoughts and intentions, they can only look at actions and guess what the intent or thoughts were.
So for the law of man, it is the actions that are subject to enforcement and penalty if we fail to meet the standard.
Christianity sets a standard for the heart, our thoughts and intentions are measured. For the non-religious, there is an ever changing standard of morality within the heart and mind. We grow up believing something is morally wrong, but after some life experience we have a change of heart and what used to be wrong is now OK. We have a mental list of things that make up a good person and things that make up a bad person and over time, the bad person list shrinks because, after all, there are exceptions to every rule and things you said you would never ever do, you find you are doing them with more and more frequency. So your moral code breaks down over time because the standard of morality you live by is your own.
Remember, I am talking about thoughts and intentions, not actions. But keep in mind that before an action or sin can manifest itself by actions, it must first be thought of with the mind and desired with the heart.
Christianity is living by a standard that is greater than your own heart and mind. It is the acknowledgment that God’s heart, mind and desires are greater than my own and that I will live by those standards within myself.
So keeping the 10 commandments can make you a good moral person in the eyes of government, but in your heart and mind you could be as corrupt as a mass murderer.
God desires a relationship like parent to child and like a husband and wife. Would I be considered a great husband if I told my wife that I would not cheat on her, but I did have an overwhelming desire to cheat and I dreamed of cheating every night? Or does she want me to be head over heels in love with her and her alone? Government can never get me to that place.
I believe what Glen Beck is calling people to is the re-commitment of our hearts and minds, just like a husband re-committing his love for his wife. But we can never re-commit to something we never committed to in the first place, that is, our relationship with God.
So, do you have a place at the Glen Beck table? Of course you do. We can all be on board to re-commit ourselves to a time when our hearts, minds and actions were a bit more pure. However, as a Christian, there is a higher calling that, unless you become one, you cannot share in. You can stand for the re-commitment of the institution of marriage without being married cant you? But if you are married, there is a higher standard there.
I hope I got my point across without being too preachy.
Thanks,
Very interesting and beautifully said. However other religions moral standards differ. Do we have to convert to one religion to have one moral standard?
Also, I am a great Glenn Beck fan. I watched the whole rally and it was very beautiful and inspiring. Beck asked us to reach for the truth - and here is my truth - I admit it - I deal with it.
I sent my kids to Baptist pre-school. The kids believe in God. It is a great moral frame.
And here is the next truth that is not pretty: the kids also believe in Santa. I just hope the goodness will stay with them when they grow up.
Plus I don’t say there is no God - I say I don’t believe there is God. I may be wrong. I’ve been wrong many times in my life.
Plus I don’t say there is no God - I say I don’t believe there is God. I may be wrong. I’ve been wrong many times in my life.
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