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FReep this Poll: Greatest Military General in History
Internet Poll/Right Handed Pitcher ^ | 9/8/10

Posted on 09/08/2010 2:09:37 PM PDT by therightliveswithus

Vote in our poll: the Greatest General in History

(Excerpt) Read more at righthandedpitcher.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: History; Hobbies
KEYWORDS: dunmoreproclamation; godsgravesglyphs; history
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To: therightliveswithus
Let us not forget that it was General McAullife who said a single word that made Patton move the 3rd Army 100 miles in two days.

"Nuts!"

51 posted on 09/08/2010 3:01:27 PM PDT by Drill Thrawl (Rahm and George at Doe's when the knife came down)
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To: therightliveswithus

Joe Stillwell. Take a look at all the crap he had to put up with. Oh the best? (I thought my favorite.) Best General of the 20th century? 20th Century goes to.................... “Eric Von Manstein”. IMHO, If Von Manstein was given command of the Western front with as much equipment and personnel as Patton had, Patton would still be in England. Pattons Army may have moved quick, but they were fighting out numbered Volksturm divisions mostly. The toughest divisions were eaten up on the eastern front. Those with high casualty rates were sent back to be refitted, but it wasn’t the same fighting unit even though they carried the Division name and number. They may have been called a Division but for the most part they were about the size of a Brigade.


52 posted on 09/08/2010 3:01:56 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (The candidate they smear the most is the one they fear the most.)
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To: csmusaret
I don't happen to actually know...though I'd guess that Genghis Khan or Alexander would have. Of course, "control" was something a bit different in that day than we think of it today.

Someone also mentioned Stonewall Jackson (Patton before there was a Patton, or motorized armor) and I'd have to put him on the list as well. He was brilliant.

53 posted on 09/08/2010 3:03:24 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: therightliveswithus

Heinz Wilhelm Guderian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Guderian

regards,


54 posted on 09/08/2010 3:04:21 PM PDT by Thunder 6
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To: Drill Thrawl

I would be interested in where you got your information as to General Sam Grant being drunk and out of his skull??


55 posted on 09/08/2010 3:05:43 PM PDT by BooBoo1000 ("He will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live only for themselves' Romans 2:8)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

“Von Manstein”

Very good call.
regards,


56 posted on 09/08/2010 3:06:03 PM PDT by Thunder 6
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To: Scott from the Left Coast

One of the most under rated (or under publicized) WWII generals was MG Earnest Harmon who commanded the 1st and 2nd Armored Divisions as well as XXII Corps.


57 posted on 09/08/2010 3:06:50 PM PDT by csmusaret (The Obama/Pelosi/Reid Cartel has saddled each of my grandchildren with a $44,000 debt.)
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To: therightliveswithus
Sun Tzu? They're still reading his book after all these years.

-PJ

58 posted on 09/08/2010 3:07:14 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too ("Comprehensive" reform bills only end up as incomprehensible messes.)
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To: Gaffer

Alexander the Great
12%

Genghis Khan
3%

Julius Caesar
5%

Cyrus the Great
0%

Napoleon Bonaparte
3%

Ashoka
0%

Akbar the Great
2%

George S. Patton
43%

Erwin Rommel
3%

David Petraeus
0%

Robert E. Lee
11%

William T. Sherman
3%

Ulysses S. Grant
5%

Andrew Jackson
0%

Duke of Wellington
0%

Tamerlane
0%

Hulagu Khan
0%

Kublai Khan
2%

Babur
0%

Other
9%


59 posted on 09/08/2010 3:07:23 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
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To: allmendream

but in the end he lost to Scipio, and was unable to get the Italian city states to side with him - or get the Macedonians to join him.
Perhaps he was a greater tactician than strategist,


60 posted on 09/08/2010 3:08:57 PM PDT by hecht (TAKE BACK OUR NATION AND OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM)
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To: therightliveswithus

My pick would be Napoleon. Brilliant tactician, recongized the rise of nation states and changed the way wars were fought, and was a great leader as evidenced by the fact that even in defeat his men would rise from their death beds to cheer as he went by.


61 posted on 09/08/2010 3:13:14 PM PDT by Dogfaced Soldier
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To: therightliveswithus

Where is Stonewall Jackson?

Sherman gets the “Scorched Earth” Award, but a great general?


62 posted on 09/08/2010 3:14:38 PM PDT by DeFault User
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To: Political Junkie Too
Sun Tzu? They're still reading his book after all these years.

I'm surprised it took so long for his name to come up.

I'd be tempted to go with Alexander, or maybe Ghengis Khan, if only on the evidence of sheer acreage taken. Each of them took what was essentially the known world at the time.

We can't forget the great Admirals, either. Lord Nelson anyone?

63 posted on 09/08/2010 3:16:41 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: hecht
Well, much like Lee, Hannibal Barca was fighting a losing battle that had little to do with his battlefield performance and much more to do with the geo-political situation. He was a great strategist, as well as a tactician, but winning for sixteen years in Italy did little more than delay the eventual domination of Carthage by Rome, a situation which he had little ultimate control over.

Yes, he certainly lost to Publius Scipio “Africanus”, and that was his big problem, he couldn't afford to lose a battle, while the Romans could lose several in a row and then turn around and raise the largest army they ever assembled.

So, do you get more credit for winning, even if your army had a supreme military advantage (the Mongols under Ghengis Khan come to mind): or for doing more with less?

For my money, doing more with less is the mark of a good General. Nobody did more with less against a mightier foe than Hannibal. IMHO. That is why I rate him #1.

64 posted on 09/08/2010 3:21:38 PM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: therightliveswithus

Henry V’s Sir John Talbot, First Earl of Shrewsbury, Conqueror of Harfleur and Champion of Orleans and Agincourt.


65 posted on 09/08/2010 3:29:19 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: PilotDave

George Washington!!!

A fine book titled “The Military 100” gave him top ranking because his strategic sense led directly to the creation of the United States, the greatest nation in human history.

The fact that Washington was only a fair tactician and lost more battles than he won counts for little against his grasp of grand stategy — all the Patriots had to do to win was not lose.

The British were fighting a domestically unpopular war with long, long supply lines. Even without French intervention, the Patriots were already a tougher nut than King George, Lord North and the Tories in Parliament realized. And there were certainly a minority of British political leaders like Edmund Burke who favored the American cause to some degree or other.

Ben Franklin’s masterly negotiation of the alliance with France sealed the doom of the British war effort.

Napoleon, Caesar, Hannibal, Alexander and others may have won more battles than George Washington. But what did they build of lasting value?

So, our beloved Founder wins handily. Hooray for George Washington!!! Hooray for Ben Franklin!!! Hooray for the brave Patriots of 1776 — and those of 2010!!!

I strongly recommend “The Military 100,” which has been reprinted several times and should be easy to find.


66 posted on 09/08/2010 3:32:26 PM PDT by Colonel Blimp
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To: BooBoo1000
Partly in jest but also based on rumors and reputation at the time.

Abraham Lincoln said "Find out what whiskey he drinks and send all of my generals a case, if it will get the same results. - in reply to comments about General Grant's drinking problems"

67 posted on 09/08/2010 3:32:26 PM PDT by Drill Thrawl (Rahm and George at Doe's when the knife came down)
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To: Dogfaced Soldier

Brilliant tactician, recongized the rise of nation states and changed the way wars were fought, and was a great leader

Napolean is certainly up there. There are talents and vision beyond field tactics which may or may not be thrown into the "General" argument, but three who come to my mind with a deep understanding of comprehensive conflict are Napolean, Eisenhower, and Julius Caesar.

Immense consciousness required to be a great General. I think it was Ruskin who maintained great military leadership is evidence equal to great art of a profound civilization.

68 posted on 09/08/2010 3:42:15 PM PDT by jnsun (The Left: the need to manipulate others because of nothing productive to offer.)
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To: therightliveswithus
In WWII

Personally, I would go with the American general who was more important than all the German generals put together - General Motors.

69 posted on 09/08/2010 3:47:01 PM PDT by sima_yi ( Reporting live from the People's Republic of Boulder)
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To: therightliveswithus

General Black Pershing especially how he dealt with the islamic terrorists of that day !


70 posted on 09/08/2010 3:48:39 PM PDT by CORedneck
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To: 45semi
'Marse' Robert: Did the most with what he had, moreso than many on the list.

Rather than being on the list as an original thinker, Lee was probably one of the best generals at studying past battles and campaigns and applying them to whatever his current situation.

I think there's a book - maybe "Lost Triumph"? - that examines this in detail, arguing that among other things his real plans on the third day at Gettysburg were a revisiting of what he and Winfield Scott had done several times during the Mexican War. Which themselves were based on what Lee had learned of previous battles.
71 posted on 09/08/2010 3:50:35 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: therightliveswithus

I doubt there’s a final answer to this question, but let me throw in Chaka Zulu: invented the Assegi (stabbing spear), large-scale tactics, real armies, and a society to support them, all by himself. He created a proto-nation-state among the Zulus which was eerily similar to nazi Germany a century later, especially Himmler’s vision of it.

Considering he started out with basically a loosely organized tribal group....


72 posted on 09/08/2010 3:53:25 PM PDT by Grut
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To: RedwM

Gen Jackson & R.E. Lee together at Gettysburg,the Civil War would have ended quite possibly different.

Gen Douglas McAuthur has my vote

Also the way he changed Japan after the war


73 posted on 09/08/2010 3:54:29 PM PDT by Harold Shea (RVN `70 - `71)
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To: therightliveswithus
I'd throw Belisarius into the mix. The problem is that his was a pretty obscure little slice of history.

Lee said it was Grant, BTW, and I believe Grant thought it was Lee. That's an awfully good pair to draw to.

74 posted on 09/08/2010 3:58:48 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: therightliveswithus
David

Constantine the Great

St. Jeanne d'Arc

75 posted on 09/08/2010 4:29:33 PM PDT by frogjerk (I believe in unicorns, fairies and pro-life Democrats.)
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To: EyeGuy

We have a winner!


76 posted on 09/08/2010 4:33:48 PM PDT by Defiant (Liberals care more about the Koran than they did about Terry Schiavo.)
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To: Drill Thrawl

Jackson, Lee, Patton and Schwarzkopf


77 posted on 09/08/2010 4:39:20 PM PDT by afnamvet (Patriots Rising)
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To: therightliveswithus

Jeanne d’Arc!


78 posted on 09/08/2010 4:41:13 PM PDT by RachelFaith (2010 is going to be a 100 seat Tsunami - Welcome to "The Hunt for Red November".)
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To: therightliveswithus

General Issue....without them nothing is won.


79 posted on 09/08/2010 4:45:37 PM PDT by Churchillspirit (9/11/01...NEVER FORGET.)
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To: afnamvet
General Robert E. Lee. He was a true small town southern man and even though I am an agnostic I feel shivers when I listen to it the song about him.
80 posted on 09/08/2010 4:56:32 PM PDT by DanMiller (Dan Miller)
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To: therightliveswithus

It’s hard to pick a “Greatest General” given the disparity of technologies and eras.

I’d rather pick a list of 5.

Genghis Khan
Hannibal
Khaled bin Al-Waleed
Von Manstein
Ariel Sharon


81 posted on 09/08/2010 5:06:44 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Obama White House=Tammany Hall on the National Mall)
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To: frogjerk

Charles “The Hammer” Martel

I’m surprised he doesn’t get more mention. If it weren’t for him we’d all be Muslim now.


82 posted on 09/08/2010 5:12:28 PM PDT by Truthsearcher
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To: Drill Thrawl

Grant fought with sheer weight and he knew the cost. I would have got drunk too.


83 posted on 09/08/2010 6:02:49 PM PDT by RedwM
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To: Harold Shea

“Gen Douglas McAuthur has my vote”

I don’t think you read the title of the thread correctly, this is about the BEST generals in history, not the WORST.

MacArthur:

Lost half his Air Force on the first day of the war.
Failed to follow a well thought out pre-war plan
Failed to move critical supplies to Bataan and Corregidor

Consequently his army held out about half the time it was capable of had it been properly supplied.

Later in the war he had horrible relations with his fellow theater commander, Chester Nimitz, and pretty much the whole Navy which harmed his efforts against the Japanese.

Ten years later he was at it again, getting caught napping by the North Koreans. He nearly got thrown out of Korea, staged a comeback but then wasted it by getting caught napping AGAIN, this time by the Red Chinese. Then nearly lost a whole corps to the Reds by letting it get over extended before a Marine General saved them.

To top it off he got himself fired by the President for insubordination.


84 posted on 09/08/2010 6:08:24 PM PDT by GreenLanternCorps ("Barack Obama" is Swahili for "Jimmy Carter".)
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To: Yet_Again

Wholeheartedly agree — after Chancellorsville, which was Jackson’s masterpiece, Lee one only one major battle, Cold Harbor, and that was a boneheaded blunder by Grant.


85 posted on 09/08/2010 6:29:51 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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I don't think this is answerable, since the great generals tend to be operating one at a time, and of course they don't face other great generals from other eras (or have to). But out of all the excellent generals of the ancient world, I would pick Alexander.

Alexander the Great's dad and/or his dad's associates innovated and adapted existing equipment and tactics; the traditional Greek phalanx had grown in popularity after the Persians got their sorry butts kicked a number of times in Greece. By Alexander's time, a decent chunk of the Persian army was made up of Greek conscripts from Persian-held Anatolia, Cyprus, and Egypt as well as Greek mercenaries from the same places as well as Greece itself. After facing Alexander, those Greek fighting men were believers.

The improvements made by Phillip and further implemented by Alexander included longer spear shafts in the phalanx, (non-gunpowder) artillery such as catapaults and "belly shooters", and coupled with drilling and discipline. It's not any coincidence that, after that terrible winter in Balkh, when A nearly died of wounds but recovered strong as ever, a massive force of Greek hoplites arrived. He split his army into four columns of 50,000 each (that's right, 200 thousand troops) and cleaned house up there.

Alexander though had that rare ability to understand what was going on and dynamically adjust. He didn't seem to have any doubt about what he was doing. And he was charismatic -- his army would (to rip off an cool piece of dialogue from HBO's "Rome") have followed him up Hades' ass. And no great general can do without that.

Thanks therightliveswithus.

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86 posted on 09/08/2010 6:30:35 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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To: frogjerk; Truthsearcher; Cincinna

Well said!


87 posted on 09/08/2010 6:35:52 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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To: therightliveswithus
Leonidas (pronounced /liːˈɒnɨdəs/,[1] Greek: Λεωνίδας, Leōnidas, literally "lion's son") was a king of Sparta, the 17th of the Agiad line, one of the sons of King Anaxandridas II of Sparta, who was believed in mythology to be a descendant of Heracles, possessing much of the latter's strength and bravery. While it has been established that King Leonidas of Sparta died at the Battle of Thermopylae in August, 480 BC, very little is known about the year of his birth, or for that matter, his formative years. Paul Cartledge has narrowed the date of the birth of King Leonidas to around 540 BC.

Leonidas was one of three brothers: he had an older brother Dorieus and a younger brother Cleombrotus, who ruled as regent for a while on Leonidas' death before the regency was taken over by Pausanias, who was Cleombrotus' son. Leonidas succeeded his half-brother Cleomenes I, probably in 489 or 488 BC, and was married to Cleomenes' daughter, Gorgo. His name was raised to heroic status as a result of the events in the Battle of Thermopylae.

With my shield or on it.

88 posted on 09/08/2010 6:40:17 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
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To: therightliveswithus

Either Genghis Khan himself or his general Subudai who led the invasion of Eastern Europe, one of the two.


89 posted on 09/08/2010 6:44:54 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: therightliveswithus

Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded an empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him.
~Napoleon Bonaparte


90 posted on 09/08/2010 6:47:16 PM PDT by Kevmo (So America gets what America deserves - the destruction of its Constitution. ~Leo Donofrio, 6/1/09)
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To: tcrlaf

Mighty good choices! In particular, Von Manstein is a great choice which also points to the fact that WWII had the, uh, I guess, benefit of having some mighty great generals all over; on the German side, I’d pick Guderian, Rommel, and Von Manstein. VM’s memoirs are on my eventually-I-will-finish-it list of books I’m reading. The sharp focus of his mind comes through in his text.

I’d add Sepp Dietrich to the German list, not for strategic thinking (he had none) but for sheer ass-kicking fighting-man abilities — but the guy kinda creeps me out. He was no doubt about it a straight talker, which may be why he was the only man Hitler trusted. Nominally he reported to Himmler, but Dietrich reported in fact directly to Hitler.

Patton was the greatest of the US generals in WWII, although the snarky Omar Bradley neither gave him credit for knowing what he was doing the whole time nor for his accomplishments (meanwhile, Bradley showed flashes of minimum competence). It’s probably cheating (and will probably tinkle off some people here), but the greatest of the Pacific Fleet command belongs on the list of nominees, IMHO. The toughest fighting of the war for US forces at least was in the Pacific, and in Italy (due to the terrain, rather than the Italians).


91 posted on 09/08/2010 6:49:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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To: therightliveswithus

General Robert E. Lee, CSA.


92 posted on 09/08/2010 6:53:03 PM PDT by decisis
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To: therightliveswithus

Scipio Africanus & Sulla


93 posted on 09/08/2010 6:53:34 PM PDT by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Stilwell is another good choice, although he didn’t do much commanding in WWII; that Tuchman bio of “Vinegar Joe” is a great choice for anyone interested in 20th c Far East politics as well as WWII. Like Patton, Stilwell talked too much for his own good, and also like Patton, Stilwell was right on the money. Also, both men died right away (1945 and 1946, respectively).

Patton: the Speech
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/708544/posts

One Marine, One Ship
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1008503/posts


94 posted on 09/08/2010 7:02:32 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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To: therightliveswithus
Have to go with Alexander. Dude won in all terrains-jungles, deserts, mountains, plains-and in all scenarios-massive showdowns between empires or guerilla warfare.

Napoleon was great and he gets bonus points and added degree of difficulty because he had the French, but at the end of the day, you have to go with Alexander.

My favorites-Leonaides, Patton, and Charles the Hammer. Daniel Morgan has to get an honorable mention for the ass whupping he gave the Brits at Cowpens.

95 posted on 09/08/2010 7:03:35 PM PDT by MattinNJ (NJ's new slogan. Garrett and Christie. Perfect together.)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

At least Napoleon polls ahead of Wellington. :’)


96 posted on 09/08/2010 7:21:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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To: Kevmo

Nice one!


97 posted on 09/08/2010 7:22:12 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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To: therightliveswithus

Alexander the Great - defeated only by the size of the World

George Washington - Kept the American army together to outlast the the British and win independence, kept the army out of politics, and gave up power willingly.

1st Baron Clive - Defeated the French and won India for Great Britain

1st Duke of Marlborough - won the War of the Spanish Succession

1st Duke of Wellington - Drove Napoleon from Spain, defeated him at Waterloo

King Frederick II of Prussia (Frederick the Great) - Greatest General of the Seven Years War, created modern Prussia

Ulysses S. Grant - Crushed the Confederacy in the West, effectively won the War at Vicksburg, then destroyed the Eastern Confederate armies too.

Omar Bradley - lead the largest army (12th Army Group) in American history.

Winfield Scott - Captured Mexico City and won the Mexican War. Devised the plan that was the basis of Union victory in the Civil War.


98 posted on 09/08/2010 7:23:44 PM PDT by GreenLanternCorps ("Barack Obama" is Swahili for "Jimmy Carter".)
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To: Political Junkie Too

/highfive


99 posted on 09/08/2010 7:26:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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To: Pharmboy; PilotDave; skeeter; Drill Thrawl; Missouri gal

Speaking of Sun Tsu (Political Junkie Too was, above), “he will triumph who knows when to fight and when not to fight”. The General, George Washington, understood that one very well. Everyone did what they did, the Framers rose to never-equalled genius, but no Washington, no independence.


100 posted on 09/08/2010 7:28:40 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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