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Vick’s Recent Flurry of Success is No Reason to Deny Forgiveness
Three Fingers of Politics ^ | November 24, 2010 | Stupac

Posted on 11/24/2010 6:44:33 AM PST by Superstu321

He served 21 months in prison plus two months of home confinement. Add to that an epic public relations nightmare and the scorn of millions of people for an atrocious crime.

Warranted? Sure. However, after two years of paying his debt to society, there are still some wanting to re-prosecute him for that same crime only because he finds himself in the public spotlight again. But with Thanksgiving upon us this is as good a time as any for us to forgive Michael Vick for his heinous and disgusting crimes.

Over the last two weeks there hasn’t been a hotter team in the NFL than the Philadelphia Eagles. Their quarterback, Michael Vick has been playing at a new level and was the catalyst for a resurgent Eagles offense. But the positive on-field attention the Eagles have garnered has also come with a wave of bad publicity – specifically surrounding Vick’s past arrest for financing and participating in a multi-state dog fighting ring.

A lot of the anger is compounded by the fact that Eagles have been in the national spotlight two weeks in a row with a Monday night and then a Sunday night game. That coupled with Vick’s outstanding play makes it difficult to ignore, but is it time for America as a whole, to forgive him?

(Excerpt) Read more at threefingersofpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Education; Society; Sports
KEYWORDS: dogfighting; thanksgiving; vick

1 posted on 11/24/2010 6:44:39 AM PST by Superstu321
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To: Superstu321

I agree with Stupac and I’m a Redskin fan. He did his time, let’s move on.


2 posted on 11/24/2010 6:46:46 AM PST by Skeez (O)
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To: Superstu321

Doesn’t matter if others forgive him; what does matter is if he’s found forgiveness for himself, and judging by his performance he just may have. Perhaps Tiger should give him a call...


3 posted on 11/24/2010 6:50:36 AM PST by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: Superstu321

Why the excerpt from your blog? Copyright issues with FR again?


4 posted on 11/24/2010 6:52:07 AM PST by cweese (Hook 'em Horns!!!)
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To: Superstu321

Agreed w stupac ... and I’m even an Eagles fan.


5 posted on 11/24/2010 6:52:37 AM PST by InvisibleChurch (Stimulus ~ Response / "...and that's why the color yellow makes me sad, I think.")
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To: Superstu321

1) Nice article.
2) I already HAVE forgiven him.
3) He appears to have turned his life arouond, and I truly hope he has.
4) I 100% agree with your assessment RE: HUMANS vs. dogs. Michael Vick served a MUCH longer prison sentence for being cruel to dogs than he apparently would have served if he had, say, raped two women; or driven drunk and killed a pedestrian in a crosswalk; or participated in a murder.
5) I SURE wish the Miami Dolphins had picked him up when they had the chance...


6 posted on 11/24/2010 6:53:03 AM PST by WayneS (Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm. -- James Madison)
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To: Superstu321

Not sure that it’s relevant whether or not I forgive him, since he hasn’t sinned against me. Were I to hold a grudge against a man I’d never met for something he did that didn’t involve me, that’s my problem, not his. As it is, he did the crime and did the time, paid his debt to the law etc. etc. So assuming he is no longer doing that sort of thing, I see no reason he should walk around with a scarlet A hanging from his neck.


7 posted on 11/24/2010 6:54:47 AM PST by squidly
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If there were video of him torturing a dog or dogs to death, I wonder if people would be as willing to forgive him. F*!& that piece of garbage.


8 posted on 11/24/2010 6:55:11 AM PST by Whoa
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To: Superstu321

9 posted on 11/24/2010 6:56:49 AM PST by dfwgator (Congratulations to Josh Hamilton - AL MVP)
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To: Skeez

Mee too...although as a Skins fan I don’t think I’ll EVER get over Monday night! That man was a machine!


10 posted on 11/24/2010 7:00:12 AM PST by pgkdan (Protect and Defend America! End the practice of islam on our shores before it's too late!)
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To: Whoa

“F*!& that piece of garbage.”

Amen,brother,amen


11 posted on 11/24/2010 7:00:22 AM PST by 11johara28
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To: Superstu321

Good article. Thank you for your thoughtful perspective. I would have a lot easier time forgiving the bastard if I knew that he had done anything whatsoever to make amends. Has he donated one thin dime to animal rescue? If not, I have this horrible feeling that he still feels the same way about helpless creatures the way he did when he savagely tortured them to death.


12 posted on 11/24/2010 7:01:34 AM PST by hampdenkid
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To: Superstu321

13 posted on 11/24/2010 7:06:09 AM PST by Bean Counter (Stout Hearts!!)
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To: Skeez

Amen to that!!! I also believe you have to look where he came from. Not an excuse by any means but, we all fall short don’t we? For him this was normal, sick yes, but, normal. Now he knows better and appears to have repented and moved on himself.


14 posted on 11/24/2010 7:07:34 AM PST by MsLady (If you died tonight, where would you go? Salvation, don't leave earth without it!)
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To: Skeez

I agree. The people who are still fighting this battle do not want punishment. They do not want redemption. They do not want justice.

They want something else. Im not sure what it is, but they want something else.


15 posted on 11/24/2010 7:08:04 AM PST by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: hampdenkid

good question. I know he has helped raised a ton of money for PA SPCA. Jen Utley, the wife of Phillies 2nd Basemen Chase Utley, is the head of the PA SPCA and has worked with him a lot on fund raising and speaking events. As far as him actually donating i’m not sure. All pertinent questions.


16 posted on 11/24/2010 7:09:18 AM PST by Superstu321
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To: dfwgator

That’s cute


17 posted on 11/24/2010 7:17:32 AM PST by Skeez (O)
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To: Superstu321

I hate the fargin Redskins. Vick is on my Christmas card list.


18 posted on 11/24/2010 7:21:55 AM PST by laotzu
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To: Superstu321

Thanks for the response. I am very pleased to hear that he has actually made amends. He is a phenomenal talent.


19 posted on 11/24/2010 7:24:44 AM PST by hampdenkid
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To: Whoa

“If there was a video of him torturing a dog to death....”

Good point. I cannot stand the man and only watch his team with the hopes that he gets sacked. SACKED HARD. It isn’t like he is going to be electrocuted, shot in the head, drowned or anything.... oh yeah, that is Vick’s style. I see him as a sociopath with some football ability. Just a thought.


20 posted on 11/24/2010 7:39:38 AM PST by momtothree
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To: Superstu321
"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a NEW creature; the OLD things passed away; behold ALL THINGS HAVE BECOME NEW." (2 Corinthians 5:17, Emphasis added)

"There is therefore NOW NO CONDEMNATION to those who are IN CHRIST" (Romans 8:1 Emphasis added)

God in Christ has forgiven Mr. Vick; he has proclaimed his faith in Christ, and his life testifies that he is a new man in Christ. Therefore, those who know Christ as savior have a responsibilit to view him as a brother in Christ and to treat him as such.

If God can forgive the Apostle Paul, who viewed himself as the foremost of sinners, then God can forgive anyone, Mr. Vick included.

21 posted on 11/24/2010 7:42:48 AM PST by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from =evil and from those perpetuating it, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: Skeez

He should get hit by a truck and live.


22 posted on 11/24/2010 7:52:22 AM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: InvisibleChurch

This is the reason I hate sports.


23 posted on 11/24/2010 7:54:42 AM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Superstu321

Did he apologize to all the women he gave herpes to?


24 posted on 11/24/2010 7:57:24 AM PST by dfwgator (Congratulations to Josh Hamilton - AL MVP)
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To: dfwgator

You are mistaken, that was Ron Mexico.


25 posted on 11/24/2010 8:05:07 AM PST by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: Jmouse007
I find prison conversions to be highly unconvincing. Vick would have tearfully proclaimed with utmost conviction that he was a giant purple carrot from Mars if that is what it took to get his career back. The jury is still out on his "conversion."

As for the NFL, the fact that Vick is back on the gridiron in ANY capacity shows that they have no standards whatsoever. It's bad enough that they tolerate all the drug shenanigans and womanizing. Just what would you have to do to get banned for life? Kill somebody?

Oh yeah, Ray Lewis. Doh! Like I said, no standards.

26 posted on 11/24/2010 8:09:03 AM PST by jboot (Let Christ be true and every man a liar.)
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To: momtothree
I was a longtime Eagles fan who will never cheer for them again as long as Jeffrey Lurie owns the team. I am tired of his ultra-liberal politics, I am tired of hearing about the coaches sons brushes with the law, I am tired of hearing dog fighting being equated with hunting and I am tired of Michael Vick being put on pedestal now for “turning his life around.” Despite my 40 year allegiance to the Eagles I now find myself now rooting against them.

Fact of the matter, Vick has committed heinous crimes, has served his time and has earned the right to move on with his life. Its not up to me to decide whether or not Michael Vick deserves “forgiveness,” that is in God's hands. However it is my choice to decide which sports teams I choose to root for and my heart is simply not with the Eagles anymore and as a result in the eyes of many of my ex-brethren Eagle fans I am an unforgiving racist hypocrite.

27 posted on 11/24/2010 8:13:54 AM PST by 07Jack
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To: Superstu321

We still have people here in Atlanta that long for Mike Vick. The whole debacle became a racial thing for a number of people because Vick was black and ownership was white. Arthur Blank gave the guy everything ($130 million contract, the highest profile personality in the ATL). And he screwed the pooch by not taking his profession seriously and hanging out with a large group of guys from his hood that were no good leeches.

However, the majority of Atlantans are now pleased that we have rebounded from that mess with a more professional, responsible group of players and coaches representing our city.


28 posted on 11/24/2010 8:14:28 AM PST by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: jboot
Having served as a prison chaplain for five years I can understand your concerns. That said, people do come to faith in Christ in prison and for many it is genuine. One test of how genuine is the fruit evidenced in their lives after they have believed in Christ. Mr. Vick has clearly demonstrated the fruit of a changed life since coming to Christ. If God in Christ has forgiven Mr. Vick and made him a NEW man in Christ, that is all that counts.

Mr. Vick has every right to earn a living doing what he does best.

29 posted on 11/24/2010 8:20:44 AM PST by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from =evil and from those perpetuating it, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: Jmouse007
"Mr. Vick has every right to earn a living doing what he does best."

I strongly disagree. No one has a "right" to a particular job. All employment is a priviledge predicated not only on performance but also character. I have worked in a hiring capacity for several firms, and according to company policy a criminal record mitigated overwhelmingly against an applicant. In my current position, a felony arrest (not even a conviction) would result in immediate termination. This is called "having standards", and it is foriegn to the NFL and apparently many others.

30 posted on 11/24/2010 8:33:44 AM PST by jboot (Let Christ be true and every man a liar.)
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To: Superstu321

As long as he continues to play the part of the redeemed man, I will cut him the slack that goes with it.

Do I really, really trust this conversion? No. He’s got a long way to go to regain any trust.

But to deny him the benefit of the doubt at the moment is tantamount to saying that redemption, as a general concept, is impossible. And I’m not cynical enough to believe that.

So for as long as he keeps his nose clean and says and does the right things, I will accept it at face value.


31 posted on 11/24/2010 8:38:33 AM PST by kevkrom (De-fund Obamacare in 2011, repeal in 2013!)
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To: kabumpo

You know I’ve said this before, I never really understood why people hate the guy so much. America bans a lot of activities where the execution of such doesn’t violate anyones rights but while some may disapprove of them, its rare that people hate those that engage in them.

I grew up in an area where cockfighting was perfectly legal until recently. I went to see the fights on occasion and even placed a bet from time. Doesn’t make me or anyone else there a psychopath (unless you have some strange morality system that not only gives animals’ rights but gives dogs more of them somehow). I’ve killed deer, hogs, chickens, turtles (usually by scalding), snakes, etc. No one has a problem with those but somehow dogs are more special? I really can’t understand that.


32 posted on 11/24/2010 8:57:37 AM PST by Raymann
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To: jboot

Yep, let’s see how Vick behaves when he has nothing to lose.


33 posted on 11/24/2010 9:22:45 AM PST by dfwgator (Congratulations to Josh Hamilton - AL MVP)
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To: jboot
I didn't say he had a right to a particular job, I said he had a right to earn a living doing what he does best.

If I remember corrrectly, Mr. Vick WAS terminated, then after he paid his debt to society, NFL thoroughly examined his life and determined that he was worthy of receiving a second chance. It is clearly evident that his life on and of of the field have demonstrated that their faith in Mr. Vick were well placed.

I do not know what you do for a living or the company you work for. If Mr. Vick had been working in a bank, or in a field dealing with large amounts of cash and he had been convicted of theft or monitray fraud then I would agree, Mr. Vick's felony conviction would probably disqulify him from working in that field again. However, that is not the case. Mr. Vick throws a football for a living and he is very good at it. His felony conviction has no bearing on what he does or on his ability to do it. As a matter of fact, Mr. Vick's demonstrated faith in Christ and his restoration to a productive memeber of society make him a great testimoy to the forgiveness of God and His ability to restore broken men and women.

34 posted on 11/24/2010 9:39:27 AM PST by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from =evil and from those perpetuating it, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: dfwgator
"Yep, let’s see how Vick behaves when he has nothing to lose."

Lotsa folks have to live with the consequences of thier actions. It's no excuse for bad behavior.

35 posted on 11/24/2010 9:40:19 AM PST by jboot (Let Christ be true and every man a liar.)
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To: kabumpo

Ha! See, the joke is that Vick is an Eagle and I said I was an Eagles fan because Eagles fans hate everybody. No, really, I just like to watch people beat each other around.


36 posted on 11/24/2010 9:44:57 AM PST by InvisibleChurch (Stimulus ~ Response / "...and that's why the color yellow makes me sad, I think.")
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To: Raymann
I'm a hunter but I do draw a distinction between when I kill a wild animal hunting and what Vick admitted to doing. Vick not only was involved in a dog fighting ring but also admitted to torturing under-performing dogs to death by hanging or slowly drowning them while electrocuting them with jumper cables and car batteries. Also for entertainment they would gather dogs that were raised as pets and watch the trained fighting dogs maul them to death.
Maybe I'm being hypocritical but I see a definite distinction.
37 posted on 11/24/2010 9:51:36 AM PST by 07Jack
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To: 07Jack

“However, it is my choice to decide which sports team I choose to root for...”

You are so right. Forgiveness is not ours to give (that is solely up to the Lord). However, I don’t have to like someone or cheer them on just because they “did their time”. It isn’t the same thing but I wouldn’t want a rapist to live next door to me even if they “served” their time. As for the people who equate dog fighting and hunting.... the two are nothing alike. One is for food. Did Vick eat his dogs? The other is for some sick enjoyment watching/betting on one dog viciously attacking and killing another. As long as he is with the Eagles, they won’t see me as a fan. Thanks.


38 posted on 11/24/2010 9:55:04 AM PST by momtothree
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To: 07Jack

Don’t get me wrong, it is sick but they’re still animals and animals have NO rights. Once you get beyond “in general, the only things that should be illegal are actions that violate the rights of others” like the US has then anything goes. SanFran just banned freakin Happy Meals for no reason other then they didn’t like it, subjective feelings ought to have no basis in making law.

Again what Vick did was sick but you have to keep in mind that no ones rights were violated nor were they planned to be violated.


39 posted on 11/24/2010 10:05:22 AM PST by Raymann
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To: Jmouse007
My problem is not with Vick but with the NFL. Why should a felony conviction not disqualify someone for working in the NFL but would disqualify someone for working in a bank? A felony conviction is evidence of poor character. What kind of employer would re-hire an employee who had committed a felony while they were on the payroll?

Those were just rhetorical questions based on the long-discarded notions of community standards and fair play. I already know the answer: celebrities are treated to thier own rules and privileges that we lesser men must not question. "You wouldn't want to deprive the world of a talented player, would you?" "You want to give young African-American someone to look up to, don't you?" Etc, ad nauseum. Or as someone else implied, "you wouldn't like Mr. Vick if you took away his football. He might get very angry and do more Bad Things!"

Also, please don't conflate employers with the Church. The Church, and individual Christians, are obliged to forgive. Employers (and all those in secular authority) are not under any scriptural compulsion to forgive and forget. They are charged to protect thier own interests, and by extension the common interest, by all legal means. (Romans 13, et al)

40 posted on 11/24/2010 10:09:03 AM PST by jboot (Let Christ be true and every man a liar.)
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To: Raymann
I grew up in an area where cockfighting was perfectly legal until recently. I went to see the fights on occasion and even placed a bet from time. Doesn’t make me or anyone else there a psychopath (unless you have some strange morality system that not only gives animals’ rights but gives dogs more of them somehow). I’ve killed deer, hogs, chickens, turtles (usually by scalding), snakes, etc. No one has a problem with those but somehow dogs are more special? I really can’t understand that.

Times change. In pre-industrial times dogs were bred to perform laborsaving tasks for humans. The work was tough & the dogs were ultimately replaceable no matter how good they were at their tasks.

Now dogs, regardless of their original purpose or in-bred instincts, are viewed primarily as pets.

41 posted on 11/24/2010 1:02:05 PM PST by Tallguy (Received a fine from the NFL for a helmet-to-helmet hit.)
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To: Superstu321

He’s a piece of garbage. Those dogs were worth ten of him.


42 posted on 11/24/2010 1:11:47 PM PST by The Toll
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