Posted on 12/03/2010 9:14:47 AM PST by shibumi
I worked in the most dangerous building in Dallas for over 10 years. We had our own hazmat teams, etc.
Where’s my sympathy? Where’s my pension?
Government is gang raping the American private sector...
Complete and utter crap. There is not one Bill Gates or Steve Jobs in the government. Show me on government worker who has 1 billion dollars from their job in government and I will agree with you. Until then forget it. Your turning green with envy.
Unless they land some sort of desk job within the police or fire department, doing their jobs after age 50 is more and more difficult and makes them even more likely to sustain a serious injury. That is especially true for firemen climbing ladders and running around on burning roof tops, but it applies to cops as well.
For the most part, those aren't jobs for old men (or women). Most of the retired firemen I have know have been physically limited to some degree in their retirement because of the injuries they have received over the years. It's a damn tough job. Injuries that you get early in life tend to come back and haunt you in later years.
"CalPERS of course has to figure out actuarily how long their employees are expected to live in order to calculate retirement formulas and how much and for how long they will have to pay to retirees. Their findings pretty much debunk this myth once and for all as they find absolutely no difference in the life expectancy of miscellaneous members versus public safety officials."
I think you’re looking at it the right way. Lumping the lifetime of payments together is bogus. That being said the retiring after 20 years,getting another job while collecting a pension is also bogus. Why can’t they work till 65? I really don’t care what they do as city employees till that age but they need to wait like the rest of us to retire.
I’m 53, still framing, roofing houses. Cop and Firemen jobs look lush and easy to me. Try getting one of them to work winters, showing up on the site, shoveling snow and chipping ice of top plates, then walking them, standing up rafters in 20 degree, light snow fall all day. The the fun come in laying the 4x8 plywood roof sheathing and walking it, usually with some strapping nailed here or there for grips. Year in, year out. Rain, in the summer heat. And, no production, no payee. We can’t even get the local building non inspector inspector to come out in such weather, so we have to wrap it up for the day, lose pay, while he’s in his office playing video solitaire.( his pay comes in every two weeks, no matter what )
Then of course there are the fishermen. Now those guys age. Right now in December they are out for ten days off Canada dragging.
I don’t even know why we have cops. People should protect themselves and their own stuff. You own bunches of stuff, hire someone. Cops are welfarized security.
Fire departments should be privatized. Naturally since they are underpaid, the private sector will recognize that and justly reward them. Right?
“Do we really consider that to be excessive in today’s economy for men who have risked their lives every day in our service?”
Yes. A cop doesn’t risk his life in my service any more than a coal miner does. And in fact, a coal miner has a much greater chance of dying on the job than a cop. There are hundreds of jobs that are statistically more dangerous than cop or fireman.
One cop or fireman dies on the job, and the rest of them use it FOREVER to guilt-mail more money from the taxpayers. And yet they CHOOSE to do that job; they’re not being deployed to Iraq against their will.
You can get plenty of good people to do good work at these same jobs for a lot less money and still make a fair wage.
And unless you’re a professional athlete or a model or something, there is no reason to expect to retire at fifty or even fifty-five. And certainly not on my dime.
Why not “rotate” them to less dangerous/stressful public sector jobs after 20 years? No reason they couldn’t work another 20 years as a clerk at the DMV or somesuch.
“Firefighters Life expectancy is shorter than the average.”
This lie promulgated by firefighters in order to justify their ridiculous fat pensions has been thoroughly debunked by government and university studies.
Here is the latest debilitating injury I encountered. Firemen, out on full lifetime disability. About 40-50k/yr, full benefits. What happened? He was a EMT. He went on a heart attack call. It reminded him of his dads heart attack, and he had a ‘flashback’. Post traumatic Stress. Couldn’t go back to work. He does side jobs now, laying Pergo floors on account of him being disabled.
Either way, I'm not wholly cheering for pensions for these individuals, but I do believe they perform in unique roles and may require different compensation/benefit structures.
How are you collecting a disability pension if you’re well enough to work laying floors? That’s hard-ass work.
I don’t mean “you;” I mean that guy you used an an example.
How many more years do you think you can keep that up?
Cop and Firemen jobs look lush and easy to me.
No doubt about it. Being a roofer is much tougher job. You never know when some crazy plumber or electrician is going to try to blow your brains out or set the building on fire undeneath you. < /s >
farming is the deadlies occupation in the USA.
Strictly by the numbers, where do police fall on the actual statistics?
My understanding is the vast majority of police never draw their guns except in practice.
You want to try dragging fire hoses up 50 foot ladders or or gutter wrestling with 20-something drunks when you are 65 years old? I sure as hell don't.
I don’t do much roofing. It’s too boring, and painful in a constant low grade way, and the subs are very efficient and sharp on their prices.
Not too much longer. The plan is to semi retire on a boat I’m fixing up. It’s really good for me. I unload piles of junk, improve my diet, sleep better, am more positive, drink less. I am an addictive reader who refuses intervention, so the boat, books, pickup jobs in boat yards, sail around. I’m not aware of any males in my liniage that hit late 60’s. Usually first and massive heart attacks.(No cancer, so we’ve got that going for us.)
BTW, death rates in construction exceed both cops and firemen.
What seems to be left out of this discussion is that the employee payroll deduction for retirement is matched with the employers contribution. These funds are then managed and invested by the State pension board. Here in Washingon State there are now three (3) different structures PERS 1, PERS 2 nad PERS 3 and for police/fire they are LEOFF1, LEOFF 2, LEOFF 3.
PERS 1 and LEOFF 1 were the most generous but they are no longer available as of 1979. The pensioner will receive a calcualted benefit of 2% per year of vested service up 60% of their top 5 years salaries, with reductions in benefits for retiree ages 55-60, 60-62, 65-70...
Many states have taken those large pension investment funds and raided them like the feds do to SS.
I wasn't talking about death rates, only the physical demands of the job. Police, fire and the construction trades or pretty tough to keep going after age 50. Usually it's the knees and back that go first. Every old bruise and fracture from years past come back and haunt the hell out of you.
I’m not aware of any males in my liniage that hit late 60’s.
Does not mean that you are destined for that. Think positive.
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