Skip to comments.The F-Bomb
Posted on 12/03/2010 9:19:18 PM PST by DoctorZIn
Inquiring minds are reading an intriguing and frightening article by Greg Hunter entitled, Foreclosure Bombshell. Mr. Hunter gives the best explanation (yours truly included) of the explosive problem surrounding foreclosures.
The issue centers around the note
namely its location and why that is so important: ...
(Excerpt) Read more at survivingcalifornia.wordpress.com ...
Yeah. We gotta save plenty of bandwidth for Dancing and Teacher Sex threads.
The moral of this story is.....DO NOT TRUST LAWYERS.....DOUBLE CHECK EVERYTHING!!!!!
That’s exactly what the “Bloggers and Personal” Forum is for (despite that it wasn’t he but DoctorZIn that linked his blog). So don’t complain when people do exactly the right thing. Good grief don’t make a fool of yourself. I actually wonder if your post was a sarcasm fail.
This paperwork situation is not joke. I work for a law firm in NJ, we do mucho real estate work.
There was an article in The New Jersey Law Journal, which is the official weekly paper for lawyers, it publishes court notices, etc. A judge has stopped a foreclosure because nobody knows where the original docs are.
It was all a little convoluted so I asked my boss about it. He said you have to have the note, if you don’t have the note you don’t hold the debt, just like this blog post says.
It seems to me this entire situation could be about to get very worse, very fast.
I’ve always felt we haven’t been told the whole story on this housing market fiscal crises.
OK, loans were made to people who shouldn’t have been lent the money; prices were ballooning (for a variety of reasons); Las Vegas, Florida got way over-built, Cali is a mess due to property tax inequities, but still...but still....
How many loans, really? How did this almost crash the global economy, or at least the US banking system?
But, what if the same mortgages were sold MULTIPLE times?
I mean, is that the situation?
LOL, I finally clicked through to the article. It’s about that exact case in NJ.
I shouldn’t laugh really.
Welcome to FR! Never mind the nit-pickers. Jim started a “Bloggers and Personal” forum precisely for this purpose, so folks could post articles and links to their personal pages and blogs. If you look in the upper right corner you’ll see that’s the forum you are in.
The ones on FR that hate blogers are the disruptor's.
The ones that complain and harass blogers for "blogpimping" cannot get over the fact that almost all those type of posts are COMPLETLY within FRs rules.
They cannot accept FRs rules for what they are and continue to act out in their childish ways.
Thanks for the ping!
No, they were shredded. As in a truck came by to the document facility with a commercial shredder in the back and they were ground up:
Fixing the paperwork won't be easy because many of the notes have been lost or even deliberately shredded. The Florida Bankers Association told the state Supreme Court last year that in many cases, "the physical document was deliberately eliminated to avoid confusion immediately upon its conversion to an electronic file."
Thousands of counts of perjury have been committed by sworn affidavits of lost note. But that was just the desperate bank's fraud to cover up other frauds at origination, underwriting, rating, packaging, assigning, tranching, servicing, etc., etc.
As I said, when are the frog marches starting?
Are there conservative wimmen on this blog and do they have whiskey?
Good writing. Nice Blog.
Wells Fargo claims the notes are lost.. but in actuality they are held at various “Iron Mountain” locations,, completely free of all the necessary assignments involved in creating an investment instrument. Every MBS they created is a LIE , the docs were never delivered to the trustees.
Bank of America is similarly screwed , their “record custodian” testified recently that Countrywide NEVER ransferred the loan docs to the various trusts ...
The robo signers are just one tiny piece of evidence of the fraud.. The FED and Fannie/Freddie all know that the hand they’re holding is unenforceable at best and in most cases is plain old fraud.
If the original note can’t be found, does that mean I can’t sell and transfer title? Am I stuck here forever?
Hold on.... the mods just don’t like people who show up and pimp their blog and don’t otherwise interact.
Maybe we need a specific definition of blog pimping.
I wasn’t saying they were doing that. I was saying watch out and don’t do that.
When I “refinanced” with Wachovia around 2002 (it was actually a new loan because we owned free and clear at that point), Wachovia came back and told us we didn’t have clear title, but they were going to make the loan and close the deal anyway. They said there would be some kind of special clause added to the title insurance. It seemed like a ho-hum snafu, but I needed to clear things up with my old lender. Being told I didn’t have clear title annoyed me.
I made some calls to my (paid-off) mortgage servicer, Atlantic Mortgage, and was told that I needed to talk to ABN AMRO. I finally pushed enough buttons on my phone to get ahold of somebody named Alyson Wright, and was told that they had received the unrecorded satisfaction piece I had mailed to them the previous week and would send it to my county for recording. (I have no idea why I had an unrecorded satisfaction piece, but I believe it was sent to me by Atlantic shortly after we made our final payment.) She told me it would take ~90 days for them to get the paperwork rolling because they have “a microfilm process”. It could then take the county 3 months or so to get the now-recorded “satisfaction piece” back to me.
My new loan with Wachovia was closed and so I forgot all about it (but I kept my file and notes and copies of EVERYTHING for future reference, of course). About 9 months later I received a recorded satisfaction piece in the mail. God only knows whatever happened to the original note. I recall thinking that all parties involved were confused in general, and maybe overwhelmed by the sheer volume of new business. Wachovia’s nonchalance about closing my very favorable (for me) mortgage despite a cloud on my title left me thinking that all these banks must be swimming in the same cesspool.
I have since refinanced that Wachovia loan with somebody else and there (apparently) is no longer any issue with my title.
I hope that we can get over this and still be cyber friends. After all, at Ronald Reagan said: Wat do you call someone who believes 80% of what you do? I call them ‘friend’.
BTW, I am a rule follower too. No worries.
That is why the NOTE IS EVERYTHING. It is physical and therefore needs to have a physical note and recording. There is a reason for why the system works a specific way.
After the 60’s, do the Boomers still insist on changing every system they come in contact with? And in so doing, collapse those very systems when they ‘realize’ there were reasons for the system being a certain way? When will we Boomers learn?
Your tagline says it ALL. I wish I would have thought of it.
Thanks. I already like it here. The people are very knowledgable.
Thanks for the validation. This really is a problem. So far the idea has been to just sweep it under the rug and follow a liberal idea of kinda following the rules.
What really pisses me off is that these perps were making huge sums of money. It’s not like somehow the money wasn’t there to do this right by following the rules.
OH MY LORD!!!
i(sic) love it.
Thanks for letting me know.
That will keep a smile on my face all day.
Thank you. I am truly humbled by everyones positive comments
?No one knows for sure. However, no, you aren’t stuck there forever.
It may take awhile to get the ‘cloud’ of title straigthened out. But if you have a normal, non-distress sale (not a short sale, foreclosure, etc.) there won’t be a problem because none of the parties will make an issue of it.
Where this is really playing out is the foreclosure market. If people don’t buy foreclosures it drags the market much lower. Remember, the worse thing for ANY market is insecurity. And right now, the biggest category of homes for sale has a huge dark cloud over it. Not good for real estate.
FYI, thats how I took it...that you were looking out for me.
Oh, rilly? Please share mods' other likes / dislikes. It would surely make for fascinating reading
I left ABN AMRO in March 2007, literally the Friday before they were sold to B of A. ABN's mortgage servicing systems were considered industry leading and ABN AMRO had a very clean mortgage portfolio that was sold to CitiBank as ABN AMRO was being broken up and sold into pieces. From a risk perspective, ABN AMRO never not into the high-risk loans or mortgage backed securities business, mostly because the damn' Dutch were too stodgy and slow to take advantage the booming mortgage market.
That and a little 'money laundering' case that Elliot Spitzer was holding over the Bank along with a cease and decist order stopping ABN AMRO from doing alot of business here in the U.S.
At the end I guess I'm not surprised it took all those months for you to receive your paperwork and satisfaction piece, nice to know the old microfiche systems that we relied on as the archive of last resort still worked. I'm guessing your initial mortgage initiated somewhere in the mid to late 70's based on the fact they had to go back to the original fiche and didn't have the images online yet. I'm also guessing it was right near the tail end of the retention requirements for the bank to retain your paperwork which is why they never transferred your records from microfiche to image? Just a guess ....
It was a 15-year fixed-rate loan originated in 1987 that was paid off in 2002. I had never heard of ABN AMRO until I contacted Atlantic Mortgage to find out what the deal was with my title problem. It was they who told me I needed to contact ABN AMRO to get the satisfaction piece recorded. (shrug) I was under the impression at the time that Atlantic had just (roughly coincidental with my payoff) gone out of business and was “cleaning up” and sending the remnants of its business to ABN AMRO.
I tried to get a link to the Law Journal article, but it’s behind a paywall.
My guess is we’ll hear more on this sooner rather than later
What? Have you missed the Nub blog pimping zots? Its happened.
That would explain it. They probably outsourced the maintenance of the mortgage origination and history to ABN AMRO as they went out of business. As Atlantic had a legal obligation to see to it the records were retained for the life of the loan plus seven years, that's likely what happened.
glad to hear that. I tend to think faster than I can type..... not gonna comment further on that LOL
Anyway, I am glad that what I meant was clear. As opposed to what I said, which may not have been so clear... :)
Have a great day!
Is scotch close enough? IPA?
Just not true Danae.
Nothing in FRs rules read you have to respond after posting a thread. I admit it is suspect of troll activity ,yet how is that worse than FRs blog haters that spam every blogger thread?
Hassling the bloggers who post within Frs rules does not make FR a better place.
I have questioned mod activity when they placate the blog hater's. I will continue to do it as long as I am on FR!
If “blog pimping” (whatever that is) violates board rules, imo, Jim needs to put up guidelines of what cannot be posted in the Bloggers forum.
If he does not want blogs linked, why even have a Bloggers forum? It makes no sense.
If he does not want blogs linked, why even have a Bloggers forum? It makes no sense.
The Blog haters on FR have their own set of made up rules. They disrupt blogger threads with their spam comments . On excerpted threads they post the whole text of the writings from the bloggers website out of spite.
Their hassling of Todd Warner Huston is an example of their actions.
Yes, well there is a cadre of gumble hunners.
This account has been banned or suspended. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And continue to post. It is a diruptor cell within FR.
I was just pointing something out. I wasn’t making a commentary on it. Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear enough. Sheesh. Sorry, my bad!
Don, hold up a moment ok? I was pointing something out. I wasn’t making a commentary on it. I have seem people who sign up only to post their blogs, get zotted. I didn’t comment on whether it was right or not. Thats not for me to decide - it’s not my website. I just pointed it out.
You really don't know why someone is zotted. You and I can only surmise. Could may well be a retread trying to post and has nothing to do with the blog.
You or no one else has produced an FR rule that your idea of "blogpimping" is against FRs rules.
Yes you are right, and its a tolerated disruptor cell. LOL.
Good for you.
SO the rules are different depending on where the blog is pimped.Similarly, the rules may shift depending on the volume of pimped blogs, after all it is a form of free advertising to increase blog site hits and get a leg up in the blog-o-sphere search engine universe.
Some pimped blogs I have visited have little to add to FR discourse. Others are quite cutting edge on the information end. So your mileage may vary, and so do the posting rules. I can live with that.
But I also believe blog pimping has a cost with concern trolls peddling their disinformation on conservative causes, especially in matters of controversey among Republicans.When Rit Momsey begins his presideLDStial run, you will see many blogs pimped here dedicated to his cogs ( cause).Same happened with Pon Raul.History and records are "rewritten." Facts are skewed and spun. Some subscribers open dual FR accounts and can actually post to themselves back and forth as if they were two people arguing with each other. Solid freepers get a kick out of catching them.Very entertaining.
Overall,I think it makes FR very much a central forum and far less boring than it otherwise would be.And the 1st amendment goes through a continuous cycle of rebirth.
You got a blog and you want it certified, forged on the anvil of truth? Post it here if you dare.
You got a big mouth for someone who's been around a long time. Like that old timer who sits at the end of the bar jabbering who still thinks he can whoop everybody because no one's stood up to him in 30 years..
FR is here for people to post their opinions, not links to their opinions.
You'll have to point that out to me in the "about" section.
I have a question I suppose I could answer myself but I'm lazy and dumb. I have a blog that is rather controversial and frowned upon by many here and purely non-profit. But in my mind the content is helpful to many.
If you make a post that links to a personal blog does it appear in the "Main" FR page?
If the post appears on the "bloggers" FR page only why would people elect to bash them? Wouldn't the blogger bashers have to deliberately elect to visit the FR blogger page?
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