Skip to comments.WE'RE ALL BIRTHERS NOW: The Long-Form Obama Birth Certificate DOES NOT EXIST
Posted on 01/26/2011 5:57:29 AM PST by Reaganite Republican
More reactionary diatribes at Reaganite Republican
Juliet = reverse
Stupid iPhone auto spell.... Grrrrrrrrr
Please ping me if he answers tomorrow.
I’m obsessed and I admit it.
Hehe. This is brilliant. It seems to fit. Very very interesting.
You know how with puzzles at first it’s very slow going (especially if the box is gone so you don’t know what the final picture is supposed to look like) - you try so many pieces, they don’t fit? And every now and then one piece fits but still you’re not much farther along? I mean a big 1000 piece puzzle.
Then finally! towards the end, you can’t stuff those pieces in fast enough, it accelerates.
While they are at it, how about his grades at Occidental, Colombia, and Harvard... Might give us insight into who Obama “really is”.
Not holding my breath (How about it Fox?)
Autocorrect, it uses a spelling chicken that pecks your text to death and then clucks in satisfaction at a mangling well done.
Freepers have published the actual law and the above is not true.
Why hasn't Tim Adam's boss ( the Hawaiian woman that he calls "quite a powerful lady") come forward and countered Adam's statement?
Answer: Tim Adams is telling the truth and she isn't willing to commit a felony for Obama.
What matters most here is the court of public opinion.
What has Tim Adams to gain here by coming out with his statement? Huh? Answer: Nothing. He does though have plenty to lose. Making such a statement can not be helpful to his career. After Lieutenant Quail and other odd deaths he even stands to lose his own life or that of a close relative.
“Why hasn’t Tim Adam’s boss ( the Hawaiian woman that he calls “quite a powerful lady”) come forward and countered Adam’s statement?
Answer: Tim Adams is telling the truth and she isn’t willing to commit a felony for Obama.”
OR she doesnt want the hassle of getting involved. Besides,if she did come forward you doubtless say she is lying. So it would be a case of he/said she/said. Hardly definitive.
“What has Tim Adams to gain here by coming out with his statement? Huh? Answer: Nothing.”
People do things for their own reasons which are often not what we think they are.
But...Ok...Let's say they could duplicate the paper and typing, etc. What about the numbering of each of those certificates? Then Obama’s fake certificate would have to match **exactly** any copies he may have used for any purpose throughout his life.
Also...There would be bound ledgers where his name would need to be have been entered and these ledgers would be in cursive. It would start in the delivery room. Hospitals are **meticulous** about this mother/baby entries. ( For obvious reasons.) The cursive handwriting in the ledgers would also need to match **exactly** the cursive handwriting found in the nurse's notes in the medical records.
Is the above possible even for an expert? If it were, we would have already seen Obama’s fake birth certificate.
Perhaps some Freeper who is an expert in these matters can provide even more reasons why a fake birth certificate would be hard to produce.
GGMac’s analysis is very interesting. I recommend it to all Freepers.
Me too. I am 52 and I grew up in the 1960's and I learned the same thing. BRAVO on your post back to curiosity btw.
I have serious doubts anyone growing up in the waste pit of southern California within the last 34 years ever got a decent education. Brainwashing yes - education no.
excellent overview of adoption
except in my experience, perhaps in adopting from a foreign country, other data can be changed on the new “birth” certificate created by adoption, aside from parentage
child’s new name of course, and even birth date
Thanks for your help. I don’t neccesarily need the photo, I was thinking someone went to the yearbook(s) and/or law review to gather anything they could. Someone suggested he never changed the name back to Obama. That could help.
Even little cities use school yearbooks as an investigative tool. I used them in many cases where there was no other sort of information. I have a cold case murder from 1982. The local info was the best I could do on backgrounds, etc..
I was just wondering if anyone did some digging on this. Thanks again for your comments and help.
Lmao. Thats one chicken I’d like to...... Uh... Never mind, it’s watching my every letter.
“... his US citizenship was forsaken for the marriage to Lolo.”
Correct. Obama’s vulnerability is not in his vital records held in Hawaii, but his immigration records held at USCIS.
Obama came back to America as Barry Soetoro, Indonesian National. The Soetoro adoption was annulled in 1971. The annullment terminated the parental rights of Lolo Soetoro, but did not change Obama’s school records, immunization records or his Indonesian citizenship.
Obama was issued a Green Card and obtained a SSN as an Indonesian National legally residing in America. He evenutally naturalized as a U.S. Citizen and was issued a Certificate of Nationality to prove he is an U.S. Citizen.
It doesn’t sound so crazy anymore, but Obama is a U.S. native born immigrant who becamed a Naturalized U.S. Citizen.
so when and where did he naturalize?
“... so when and where did he naturalize?”
The United States of America.
Hawaii allows an adoption to be set aside.
Unless the HDOH is lying about the name their records are under, the adoption was probably set aside. Beckwith argues that this procedure is why BHO came back to HI in 1971, if I’m understanding correctly. Beckwith, correct me if I don’t have that right.
The problem we have is that if the HDOH can lie at will - as it does - then we just have no firm ground to stand on to even speculate. After all the research and analysis, all I can say is that we don’t know anything AT ALL until the transaction logs for all the records are disclosed and we can see which of the HDOH’s statements are truthful and which are sheer fabrication.
The way we’re going to get those transaction logs disclosed and get some closure on this issue is by getting our state legislatures to require the transaction logs to be disclosed together with the actual birth and citizenship documents before a candidate can be placed on the ballots.
A bill that could do that is posted at http://butterdezillion.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/final-short-form-eligibility-bill1.pdf . I’m asking everyone to e-mail that to their state legislator and ask them to introduce and pass it or something similar. Or if there is an eligibility bill already proposed in their state, ask the legislators to add a requirement for the transaction logs as well.
The Inspector General for HHS has released a report that makes it clear why a measure like that is important, at http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf . The IG concludes that states need to decide for themselves what documentation they will require as proof for claims, based on the reality that fraudulent documents can be used to get genuine documents and the truth is known only by looking at the whole picture.
The possibility of someone claiming an at-home birth is specifically mentioned as an easy way to get fraudulent BC’s. If what the HDOH told Lori Starfelt is correct and there was a requirement for a baby to be seen by a HI doctor within the first 30 days, that still allows for fraudulent BC’s claiming a HI birth that are perfectly legal, as noted by Aloha .... (can’t remember his name here on FR). The baby would have to arrive in HI within the first 30 days, unless a doctor was willing to fraudulently claim the child was born within the last 30 days (which would make for children whose birth might actually be weeks or months sooner than their BC says). Interesting that the dr that Abercrombie appointed as health secretary is being investigated for fraud. Medicare fraud, I believe, but it still speaks of the willingness to turn a blind eye to the rule of law.
That would explain why there are so few claimed unattended births in Hawaii for 1961. They considered it an attended birth if a doctor examined the mother or baby within the allotted time. Everything would seem legitimate, just looking at the statistics - and yet lots of people who immigrated to Hawaii with a newborn could have been fraudulently registered as Hawaii births.
Danae, do you remember the name of the Aloha person who talked about seeing people arriving in HI being told they could get a Hawaii BC easily? If you remember the name, could you ping him/her?
No, the State of Hawaii confirmed that the (legally invalid, as they indirectly confirmed elsewhere) vital records SAY Obama was born in Hawaii.
But now we’ve got Abercrombie saying the records he can find are a notation in the archives.
So we’ve got discrepancies in the official stories out of Hawaii’s government.
What do you think is the proper procedure for dealing with discrepancies?
Exactly. All my dealings with them confirm that as well.
That’s why a legal investigation is necessary.
i think it was aloha ronnie
Thanks for that information. Fascinating.
It is possible for a state to pass a law which would require the “natural born citizen” issue to be ruled on by the courts. That is currently in the works in several state legislatures. So I do feel pretty confident that we will eventually get a ruling on that. Whether or not it will be based on the original intent of the Founders probably depends on the swing vote at SCOTUS. Which is scary.
The ability to forge documents is a growing concern, and given the tampering we already know about with Obama’s records (draft registration, passport, etc), it is something we need to take seriously with Obama. I agree with you that the procedures currently in place do nothing to require forensic analysis and without a requirement nobody in government is going to touch this issue.
That’s why I believe we need to get at least one state to pass a law that requires certified, non-manipulable transaction logs to be disclosed along with the birth and citizenship records.
The devil really is in the details, and I believe it was the prospect of such a law being introduced and passed that made Abercrombie balk in what I believe was a move to prepare the public to be shown a forged long-form BC for Obama - with the unveiling timed to embarrass “birthers” and convince state legislators that the eligibility issue is a crock that they don’t want to be associated with. Thus derailing the whole move for state eligibility laws.
I honestly believe that the only thing standing between the good people of America and a total, triumphant whitewash and blowing away of this issue is whether or not we can get ONE STATE to require transaction logs for birth and citizenship records submitted as proof of presidential eligibility.
And besides just requiring the candidate to swear that they’ve never been a citizen of another country we actually need to require the citizenship documentation. We need to require the candidate to give the SOS permission to do the investigation him/herself to see what records are held by the Department of State and INS, and to receive the transaction logs for those documents.
We already know that Obama’s passport file has been illegally accessed 3 times. Before any state SOS declares Obama to be Constitutionally eligible they need to know what was done those 3 times.
The inspector general for HHS reported on how easy it is to obtain genuine documents such as a birth certificate based on fraudulent documents such as a social security card, via passports, etc. We know there is something fishy with Obama’s SSN, passport file, and draft registration - and we know the HDOH has indirectly confirmed they have no legally-valid BC for Obama. To find out the real story, the IG of HHS recommends that states decide for themselves what documentation to require in order to not be snookered by fraud.
That is EXACTLY what needs to happen in these eligibility bills. We can’t do forensic analysis of everybody in the country, but the person who holds the nuclear football should at least get that level of scrutiny.
The bill I’m asking people to e-mail their state legislators and ask for is posted at http://butterdezillion.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/final-short-form-eligibility-bill1.pdf
But to find all that out you’d have to have a legal investigation that could subpoena all those records. At this point nobody would ever do that unless they are forced to do so. And that is the rub. That is what we need to fix.
That could well be, which is a reason why we need not only the birth records but also the citizenship records - and not just based on what the candidate is willing to SAY exists, but on the SOS actually being able to get the records (including transaction logs for the records) from the Department of State, INS, etc - anybody who would have citizenship records.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but I really, really would like to see a state pass into law something very close to what is posted at http://butterdezillion.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/final-short-form-eligibility-bill1.pdf . I believe it covers the bases as best we can, from all the different angles.
Here’s the list of R-controlled states which probably have the best shot at passing something like that, including the deadlines for bill introduction (and drafting takes extra time too so all these states need to be worked on ASAP). So PLEASE, if you live in any of these states, PRETTY PLEASE ask them to pass something like the bill above. C&P the text, whatever it takes.
Heres what Ive got for bill introduction deadlines for R-controlled states:
Alabama (to be determined)
Georgia no deadline
Maine Dec 17, 2010
Michigan no deadline
North Dakota 1/24 and 1/27
Ohio no deadline
Pennsylvania no deadline
South Carolina to be determined
South Dakota 2/1
Tennessee 10th legislative day
Wisconsin no deadline
Ping. Do you have any insight on this information?
Thanks, RS. Pinged him.
Aloha Ronnie I think.... I can go check my posts...
At this point I am not going to discuss anything further with regard to whether Obama was born in Hawaii or not, because I don’t have time to chase down all of your objections, and it doesn’t really matter if he was born in the U.S. or outside the U.S. Either way in my opinion, he is ineligible because he is not a “natural born citizen”. That has been my belief since I first learned he was running for president and I started to read about him.
At the time of Obama’s birth the person he claims to be his father Kenyan and was a British subject from birth. This much was stated on at least one of Obama’s campaign related websites as well as other websites discussing his eligibility. There are multiple times this has been attested to by Obama himself, his wife, and his campaigns through the years.
Since his father was not a U.S. citizen at the time Obama was born, he does not have two parents who were U.S. citizens at the time of his birth and therefore is not a natural born citizen.
This interpretation was what was taught in schools for years prior to your birth, and is clearly the only correct interpretation of the “natural born citizen” clause if one takes the time to read the constitution and other related documents from the time period that this clause was written in my opinion.
So, it's all a matter of people having the will to do this guy in on legal Constitutional grounds rather than whistling past the graveyard. Some folks are already getting depressed over the idea that he'll get a second term, yet they're not ready to go after this guy to the degree required to keep him off the ballot in 2012. That's the sort of giving up that the majority have done with great regularity and it's why we're at the end of fifty years of creeping fascism.
WE NEED THAT TAPE!
I am a new-born birther, lol- yesterday, to be exact. And I’ll tell you why
You know, it wasn’t that I believed Obama... I never do!
BUT I found the idea of a President Biden unpalatable (intentionally chosen to aid Obama’s job security, imo)... and felt that focusing on the ballot box was the quickest and surest way to rescue this country from the grim Obammunist era. I do not believe what this country needs from Congress will be achieved with Obama in the WH, period.
But a disqualified Obama presidency has wider implication than just his removal from office: the entire election would be null and void... Biden removed too... then likely Bush re-installed until new elections could be held. All Obama-signed legislation and czars would be rendered illegitimate and powerless.
If some obscure court ruling could manage to keep Obama in office for the time-being, at least he wouldn’t be on the ballot in 2012, and would be politically crippled.
Sound good to me- due to dedicated special interest constituencies, Obama’s approval has only dipped below 40% once... no matter how he wrecks this country.
And he needs to GO
I’d like to see all his college records as well, including whether or not he applied as a U.S. citizen or a foreign student!
Beckwith argues that this procedure (ther adoption) is why BHO came back to HI in 1971, if Im understanding correctly. Beckwith, correct me if I dont have that right.
I wouldn’t describe my theory as an argument, but rather a “best guess” as to why Barak Obama showed up in Hawaii in December, 1971.
The fact is we don’t KNOW anything about Barack Obama until 1971, and we DON’T KNOW very much about Obama since then.
By the way, don’t you think if Obama’s COLB were genuine, the State of Hawaii would have spelled Obama’s alleged father’s name correctly?
A second important point is that we need to distinguish between a birth certificate argument and the issue of whether or not he was born anywhere in the US.
It has been apparent for some time; I believe the anonymous former employee who released copies of the documents in the Hawaii records file through the midwest lawyer two years ago is credible; there is no long form birth certificate to be had or found in Hawaii. He wasn't born there in August of 1961--and a birth file was established in the name of Barrack H. Obama II on August 8, 1961 without a birth certificate.
I will also say as I have elsewhere, that it appears to me as though the Smith Birth Certificate is a credible original record attesting to the birth of Obama II in Mombasa on August 4, 1961.
All of that said, this issue could become much trickier.
If you could get a legal proceeding in process in which the evidence includes the Smith Certificate, that certificate has a baby footprint on it. So at that point, likely the court orders Obama to produce a verifiable current print. If the current print matches, the game is over--the match proves both the Smith Certificate and the fact that Obama was born in Kenya and is not eligible to hold the office of President. The US Marshall gets the moving trucks--Joe is now Acting President.
But, if the print does not match, what are you left with?
It appears to me that there is a fair line of analysis that the current occupant of the White House was substituted into the identity of Obama II sometime in late 1970. I don't see him using the name until much much later--perhaps the mid 1980's (there is a single reference using the name Obama on one of the student notes however there is no credible evidence when that note appeared).
So if the print doesn't match, Obama then shrugs his shoulders and says all he knows is what his mother Stanley Ann told him; he is sure he was born in the US; here is his passport.
Now what do you say?
Even though you have state legislation mandating that the filing officer get affirmative proof of eligibility, a federal court might decide the Obama story is sufficient and order the state officer to accept the filing on the grounds of an equal protection argument.
So we need to be careful--this dance may not be over with resolution of the birth certificate argument.
It would merit the accumulation of some real funding to hire an investigator to look for real evidence of where he was in fact born before we get to the end of the process.
There’s a great 1980-era interview by Yuri Bezmenov, who was a KGB guy who defected to the US. He says the communists have 4 different stages of taking over a country. The first and longest stage is that of demoralization. It is the process of killing both the values and the will of the general public. It involves quietly taking over the foundations of the society with pro-communists, that the entire society is made up of people who either sympathize with communism or feel hopeless to fight everybody around them with all the powers-that-be against them.
Google Yuri Bezmenov and see if you can find that interview. I actually transcribed it. I might see if I can find that file. I’ve had to scrub my hard drive so many times I’m not sure if I can locate that file but I’ll try. That transcript would be a good thing to post, because it shows exactly where we are now, how we got here, and what the end of it all will be unless we pull our heads out of the sand.
Sorry, there's no way that is true. Either you have a faulty memory, or you ladies are lying. I don't know which.
No one, repeat, no one, prior to the Fall of 2008, claimed that natural born status required two citizen parents. Period.
Why did no know bring up the two-citizen parent requirement when Spiro Agnew was a vice presidential candidate? Or better yet, Michael Dukakis? Both men had at least one non-citizen parent.
Or better yet, how come not a single person raised the issue until AFTER Obama was elected? It was both well-known that he was running AND that his father wasn't a citizen. And yet, no one thought that might be a problem until after he was elected.
Sorry, ladies. Your story just doesn't pass the smell test.
Yes, and since vital records about births consist of birth birth certificates, that implies his birth certificate says he was born in Hawaii.
But now weve got Abercrombie saying the records he can find are a notation in the archives.
That is not what he said.
So weve got discrepancies in the official stories out of Hawaiis government.
No we don't.
Not a bad analogy, though in his case there really isn't any danger of getting scratched, as birthers pose no real threat to him.
Honolulu most likely. Maybe Chicago, maybe another place he lived. But I am betting it might have been done close to the time he decided to run for St. Senate in Il.
See post 194... its a nut buster.
The constant misspellings are another strange thing.
I e-mailed OIP Director Takase once to ask what exact name the HDOH is referring to when they say “President Obama”, explaining how misspellings and alternate name and initial combinations have obscured the existence of certain records. I got back a lecture about how “President” is an honorary title, blah, blah, blah.
I sent the HDOH a request for a listing of any index data they have for Obama, Dunham, Soetoro, Sutoro, etc. They implied that they can only search for one unique name and one unique vital event at a time so they wanted me to list all the combinations, which I did. I said I couldn’t imagine them not having the ability to do a string search, like Google.
Shortly after that they changed their web page to say that it would be $7.50 for every individual search they do - full name and vital event.
I typed out a word and then decided to delete it. I need to watch my mouth.
When I called them on the illegality of their charging for index records without going through the full rule-changing procedure as required by law, they tried for a while to argue with me and then the Ombudsman’s Office apparently got ahold of them and told them they couldn’t do that. So now they require snail mail instead and say they MIGHT charge a fee. And they mysteriously “didn’t receive” requests unless you send it with delivery confirmation.
Sandbagging and gaslighting.
So I never did get my answer regarding what records they have for somebody with a last name of Soetoro or Sutoro.
My belief is rules are rules. The Constitution cannot continue to be ignored, else it gives justification for ignoring other provisions, eg the 10th Amendment.
Furthermore, letting liberals continue on with this charade just enourages them more. Voter fraud is rampant in Democratic strongholds. They don’t care about integrity of the process. It’s always about them. Don’t cut them, their programs, steal from others to give to them. You don’t give them one inch, ever, never. They are childish brats and can’t be trusted with anything, so don’t give in in the first place.
You didn’t read post 194 did you?
Obama created the Birther Movement because he needed a smoke screen for his Immigration status. His adoption by Lolo changed his citizenship, and it is one that Obama has used to travel under as an adult. At BEST he is a Naturalized citizen. This is what the entire birther mockery bs is all about, covering this one simple issue.
I’m not going to waste my time discussing with you. I’ve made my points.
THey did that to me too when I order a copy of my long form. They “lost” it. I resent it with return reciept requested and got the postcard back. They STILL tried to say they didn’t get it, but I had the proof. Thats how I eventually ended up talking with Onaka’s secretary, and Onaka.
No, you've made a lot of assertions that you can't support. It's really too bad that you think the provision of supporting evidence is somehow a "waste of time."
Thus far she has produced about 100,000 times more evidence in support of her beliefs than you have in trying to prove her wrong. All your naysaying anounts to the braying of a donkey in the wild.
Sorry curiosity, but you best drop it now. You lost this round badly.
Sigh. Not the adoption candard again. This one was debunked more than two years ago. There's no evidence he was adopted, and even if he were, it wouldn't have caused him to lose his citizenship.
There neither is, nor was at the time, any provision under US immigration law under which a US citizen child loses his citizenship due to adoption by a foreigner. Period.
and it is one that Obama has used to travel under as an adult.
An allegation for which there is exactly zero evidence.
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