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Have We Reconciled
Old Virginia Blog ^ | April 13, 2011 | Richard Williams

Posted on 04/16/2011 6:27:28 AM PDT by Davy Buck

This is a perplexing question, as it relates to the WBTS. In some ways, yes. In others, no. I, like many of you, recently (and for the 3rd or 4th time), watched Ken Burns' PBS documentary, The Civil War. Even though I have several criticisms of the Burns' film, I still find it a fascinating piece of work and very educational. I've always thoroughly enjoyed watching the film, despite its shortcomings. One of the more moving parts of this film comes near the end, as shown below. Pay close attention at about 30 seconds in and listen as historian David McCullough narrates the moving "reenactment" of Pickett's charge at the 50th anniversary reunion at Gettysburg. I believe one can detect the emotion in McCullough's voice as it sounds like he almost chokes up in recounting the emotional event. I don't think he's acting. I don't mind admitting that I too was moved with emotion in hearing McCullough recount the story . . .

(Excerpt) Read more at oldvirginiablog.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Education; History; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: civilwar; confederacy; thecivilwar; union
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

:)Your grandmother was a wonderful and very wise woman.


101 posted on 04/18/2011 10:28:03 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: jmacusa

Why don’t you grow a pair and put what state you’re from in your profile...hider!


102 posted on 04/18/2011 10:31:00 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: wardaddy

BINGO!


103 posted on 04/18/2011 10:33:56 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: central_va

My guess is.... absolutely!


104 posted on 04/18/2011 10:36:56 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: jmacusa

When are we just going to AMERICANS??
________________
When all of the liberals, progressives and pinkos are gone, so it looks like we have a longgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg wait...... and where do most of them live? East and west coast with small pockets elsewhere but the South is red country for the most part and you KNOW IT!


105 posted on 04/18/2011 10:41:20 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: mojitojoe

I live in New Jersey. I’ve said that here before, where have you been?


106 posted on 04/18/2011 3:10:18 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: dixiechick2000

Ah, Madame apparently you’ve no sense of humor. And don’t you ever again get it in to your head to tell me anything.


107 posted on 04/18/2011 3:12:18 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: mojitojoe

Yeah, you’ve checked every corner of the south to root out the pinkos. Uh huh. “Jerk””? Ok. Fine. That’s so fifth-grade of you.


108 posted on 04/18/2011 3:13:54 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: Pelham

Sure it does General Lee. It means the North beat your ass. And using communist Vietnam as an analogy is pretty piss poor. It wasn’t about communism in 1861. How would you Rebs be treating the rest of us if your side had won?


109 posted on 04/18/2011 3:19:24 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: Pelham; rockrr
Let’s see... an ad hominem followed by a refusal to address the question. Doesn’t appear to be much snickering there.
You’re not having much luck, are you rocky? Looks like you’re giving up.
Maybe it’s not too late for you to drop the class without getting a failing grade. Maybe we should poll the thread.

I would volunteer to contribute to the poll - but rockrr seems to have stopped responding, and wandered off somewhere...

;>)

110 posted on 04/18/2011 4:11:47 PM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("Sometimes I have to break the law in order to meet my management objectives." - Bill Calkins, BLM)
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To: jmacusa; rockrr
P: I’m not sure “because your side lost” tells us much.

j: Sure it does General Lee. It means the North beat your ass.

Just my opinion, but your 'might-makes-right' argument would need more than just a little work, to meet even "fifth-grade" standards, my friend!

(You might ask rockrr for input - he's around here somewhere... ;>)

111 posted on 04/18/2011 4:30:50 PM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("Sometimes I have to break the law in order to meet my management objectives." - Bill Calkins, BLM)
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To: jmacusa

Traveling, working, fishing, diving and living my life. NJ, that figures. A South hating Yankee.


112 posted on 04/18/2011 5:19:34 PM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: jmacusa; Pelham
My guess is jmacusa hasn't won anything in his life, and has doesn't even know how to spell honor.

On one hand, we have John Adams saying to King George after defeating the British:
"I have the Honor to assure your Majesty of their unanimous Disposition and Desire to cultivate the most friendly and liberal Intercourse between your Majesty’s Subjects and their Citizens"

Or we have Beauregard allowing Anderson and his regiment to keep their arms upon surrender and salute the flag upon lowering it at Sumter.

Then we have jmacusa and his "Sure it does General Lee. It means the North beat your ass."

Seems to me someone still has a few lessons to learn in life.
113 posted on 04/18/2011 7:15:34 PM PDT by phi11yguy19
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To: phi11yguy19; jmacusa

Well he did do us the service of answering the question of whether or not he’s a fool.


114 posted on 04/18/2011 10:51:31 PM PDT by Pelham (Islam, mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: mojitojoe
Why don’t you grow a pair and put what state you’re from in your profile.

hell we never know who they are really and enough have been exposed as fakirs or agtiprop coverts over the years so who really knows

they get caught lying who they are all the time and making up stuff

we knew who Walt was ...just took Fresno a long time to decide they'd had enough

nonsensical as well...teacher in Kansas..wasn't that it?

I mean so many have lied and lied over the years...not all to be fair but a lot

the trend for imposters on south bashing threads amongst NeoUnionists is highest there is on the forum

115 posted on 04/18/2011 11:15:38 PM PDT by wardaddy (ok...Trump beating on Obama---Sarah----Michelle.....any of them are ok for now---tain't picky)
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To: jmacusa; wardaddy

I guess your humor is very lacking because I don’t think insulting someone as you did to be funny.

And...lastly...don’t ever threaten me again.


116 posted on 04/18/2011 11:55:15 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Age, skill, wisdom, and a little treachery always overcome youth and arrogance!)
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To: dixiechick2000
you know...if they don't like the south and our history then just ignore us

i don't go running to post threads about things I dislike about non southerners

nor things I myself like about my own kind either really

these folks claims they want us to all be Americans

what they want is the right to insult us without consequence so they can preen with indignation over something they rarely know much about or they have their own skin in the game

but historically I have found less angry black guys-gals here and more just obnoxious brainwashed what culture war pitiful Woods(a denigration of the term) from homogeneous areas that know nothing about much except what they think is the right answer in politically correct terms...but for that they are on the wrong forum..try Kos or HuffPo...

117 posted on 04/19/2011 12:50:18 AM PDT by wardaddy (ok...Trump beating on Obama---Sarah----Michelle.....any of them are ok for now---tain't picky)
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To: jmacusa
How would you Rebs be treating the rest of us if your side had won?

I will let the words of President Davis speak for me:

"The withdrawal of a State from a league has no revolutionary or insurrectionary characteristic. The government of the State remains unchanged as to all internal affairs. It is only its external or confederate relations that are altered. To term this action of a Sovereign a 'rebellion' is a gross abuse of language." -- Jefferson Davis President CSA

118 posted on 04/19/2011 6:59:11 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Pelham
Charles Francis Adams's claims were investigated and largely refuted in his own lifetime by Colonel Edgar Dudley. You can find Dudley's article here. So far as I know, in the century since Dudley wrote, no one has disproved his findings.

Since Adams backs you up on this, he's trustworthy and admirable. If he disagreed with you about secession, you'd attack him as a typical elitist and racist Boston Brahmin (which he largely was, not a "Yankee" by the way -- at least not the way we use the word up heah).

119 posted on 04/19/2011 1:58:16 PM PDT by x
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To: phi11yguy19
I sent Pelham the URL of Dudley's refutation of Adams's claims.

There's no point in discussing with you: the way your spelling, grammar, and capitalization have improved over the past week, you'll have seen through all this neoconfederate nonsense by the end of this week, if not sooner.

120 posted on 04/19/2011 2:00:39 PM PDT by x
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
There is a simple explanation, the Northern laboring class is simply too stupid to have any exploitable comic value.

First of all, that's pretty clearly untrue. Ordinary Northerners provide a lot of material for comedy. Maybe we just don't think of them as a "laboring class."

Secondly if it were true, it wouldn't help your argument or side: if Southerners were natural buffoons, there wouldn't be anything objectionable or unnatural in making fun of them.

Third, your comment is pretty revealing. All this complaining about how the Northern "they" are always ridiculing and looking down on the Southern "us" -- you have as much contempt for Northerners as any of us has for you, probably much more.

121 posted on 04/19/2011 2:10:29 PM PDT by x
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To: x
well if dudley says so, so be it. he wrote the constitution after all.

as for me, yes sir! thank you sir!

122 posted on 04/19/2011 2:36:35 PM PDT by phi11yguy19
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To: dixiechick2000

Madame, I’m not threatening you.Don’t flatter yourself. I would never behave in such a way toward a woman. And as to the gentleman I posed that question to, he found it quite amusing, as it was meant to be, a kind of touche moment. Actually that question itself was from a Marx brothers movie. Are you familair with the Marx brothers? And he was the person I was talking to, there was no need for you to butt in or didn’t your mother ever teach you that butting into other peoples conversations was impolite?


123 posted on 04/19/2011 2:57:04 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: central_va

Jeff Davis is long dead, thanks be to God. I’m asking you. Are you capable of your own opinions? How would the CSA have treated the vanquished North?


124 posted on 04/19/2011 2:59:28 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: phi11yguy19

I’ve won plenty in my life pal. ‘’Honor’’? h-o-n-o-r. Here’s another way U-S-A. I don’t need life lessons pal. Certainly not from anyone defending the Confederacy, that’s for sure.


125 posted on 04/19/2011 3:02:11 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: mojitojoe

Sorry to burst your bubble ‘joe’’, but I don’t hate Southerners or the South. There isn’t a single spot of this great land or anybody in it that I hate, well, Muslims anyway. Only because they hate me.And if your not a Muslim they hate you too. I don’t hate you ‘’joe’’. Hate is a very expensive emotional investment to make and right now any ‘’hate’’ that I have, God forgive me, is on Muslims. I don’t like, I’m angry with people who live in the South or the North, (and believe me, you don’t think you’ve still got sympathizers up here?) and romance a world and a history they were no part of and a history that had at it’s central core, like or not, a system that was built on slavery. And a system, that if it had prevailed would have meant either a divided and Balkanized America or who knows what . I call myself an American. You want to know why? It’s certainly not ,as someone here said of me, that I had been ‘’conditioned in the public schools to think that way’’ and that I’’ probably hated history’’. I went to Catholic schools for most of my life and I did go to a public high school and I loved history. I call myself an American because men and women I wouldn’t have been worthy to be spat on by paid the ultimate price for the right and the honor I have to say that. And that includes members of my own family. Fishing huh? I live eight miles from the coast but I’m not a fisherman. Do love the outdoors though. We DO have them in in ‘’Joisey’’. You have a nice night.


126 posted on 04/19/2011 3:30:50 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: Who is John Galt?

Oh, I don’t think so. That’s the question a lot of America’s former enemies used to ask. Simply because America had won a war, that meant it was ‘’right’’? Well considering that America never started wars with anybody and ended up winning those launched against it (including in 1861) I’d say ‘’Yeah, might DOES make right.’’ Certainly beats whatever would be in second place. Because to quote General Omar Bradley: “In war there’s no second place for the runner-up’’. You can bet damn sure that if the South had won in 1865 they’d damn sure be saying that they were ‘’right’’, right? :-)


127 posted on 04/19/2011 3:51:20 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: jmacusa

Fair enough, you made your point. Still, I could never live north of the Mason Dixon line. :P


128 posted on 04/19/2011 4:19:09 PM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: jmacusa
I’d say ‘’Yeah, might DOES make right.’’

Tell that to the Finns, the Poles - and the Irish...

;>)

How would the CSA have treated the vanquished North?

"Vanquished?" You seem to have misinterpreted history. The seceded States were not attempting to conquer and occupy the 'rump' union remaining to their north. I suspect that what was left of the United States would have been treated appropriately - approximately like we treat Canada, for example...

;>)

129 posted on 04/19/2011 4:47:51 PM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("Sometimes I have to break the law in order to meet my management objectives." - Bill Calkins, BLM)
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To: Who is John Galt?

I don’t recall us going to war with the aforementioned. You’re missing the question. How would the South have handled a vanquished North? How would it have absorbed the northern states and how would it have administered them? Would Northerners have been automatically made ‘’citizens’’ of the CSA? Would there have ‘’war crimes’’ trials for example? What would have been done with President Lincoln? And would slavery have continued? Funny you should mention Canada. My daughter-in-law is from Canada.


130 posted on 04/19/2011 5:33:05 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: mojitojoe

Have you ever been north of the Mason/Dixon line? It’s nice up here. I’ve been south of that line. Many times. North Carolina mostly. Two of my brothers went to college there. Outside of Charlotte. I’ve a sister-in-law from NC. NC’s nice. Very nice. South Carolina’ s nice too. Been there as well.


131 posted on 04/19/2011 5:37:50 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: jmacusa

To you and your relatives up North; please stay where you are.


132 posted on 04/19/2011 5:44:07 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: jmacusa
I don’t recall us going to war with the aforementioned.

I don't recall suggesting we had.

You’re missing the question. How would the South have handled a vanquished North? How would it have absorbed the northern states and how would it have administered them? Would Northerners have been automatically made ‘’citizens’’ of the CSA? Would there have ‘’war crimes’’ trials for example? What would have been done with President Lincoln?

As I noted previously, "You seem to have misinterpreted history. The seceded States were not attempting to conquer and occupy the 'rump' union remaining to their north." In other words, I think your question (particularly as expanded upon above) is completely irrelevant...

;>)

133 posted on 04/19/2011 5:45:44 PM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("Sometimes I have to break the law in order to meet my management objectives." - Bill Calkins, BLM)
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To: x

” If he disagreed with you about secession, you’d attack him as a typical elitist and racist Boston Brahmin “

So what are you, a fortune teller? Or just an arrogant damyankee twit? (excuse the redundancy, bub)

“which he largely was, not a “Yankee” by the way — at least not the way we use the word up heah”

You apply Yankee the way you want, and I’ll do the same thank you very much.


134 posted on 04/19/2011 7:11:23 PM PDT by Pelham (Islam, mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: Pelham; x

I see pelham has learned how to do ad hominea. I wonder if he has learned to recognize the difference?


135 posted on 04/19/2011 7:43:27 PM PDT by rockrr ("Remember PATCO!")
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To: rockrr

Well lookee who showed up. Is the Wobbly meeting over for the night?


136 posted on 04/19/2011 7:57:23 PM PDT by Pelham (Islam, mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: jmacusa; wardaddy

“And don’t you ever again get it in to your head to tell me anything.”

Frankly, that’s not just threatening, it’s misogynistic on it’s face.

“And he was the person I was talking to, there was no need for you to butt in or didn’t your mother ever teach you that butting into other peoples conversations was impolite?”

I wasn’t “butting in”. I was pinged, or didn’t you bother to notice.

BTW, since you are so interested in FR etiquette, it’s always polite...and expected...that you ping any freeper whith whom you are discussing.

I guess no one taught you proper manners.


137 posted on 04/20/2011 12:19:05 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Age, skill, wisdom, and a little treachery always overcome youth and arrogance!)
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To: wardaddy; jmacusa

“what they want is the right to insult us without consequence so they can preen with indignation over something they rarely know much about or they have their own skin in the game”

Which is what this person did...he/she didn’t ping you when talking about you.

Bumping the rest of your post to the very top!


138 posted on 04/20/2011 12:21:22 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Age, skill, wisdom, and a little treachery always overcome youth and arrogance!)
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To: Who is John Galt?

You really think that after opening a war against the North and if having won, the South would have stopped then and there? I don’t.


139 posted on 04/23/2011 8:36:00 AM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: dixiechick2000

Madame I was taught better manners then you ever were.


140 posted on 04/23/2011 8:38:30 AM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: central_va

Nah, I’m thinking of heading your way dude, me and a whole passel ‘o’ Yankees are heading for ya! Run for the hills Reb!


141 posted on 04/23/2011 8:40:17 AM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: dixiechick2000

‘’Misogynistic’’? Madame you make me laugh. Always do spot inventory taking of people you don’t know, do you? Madame I laid my sainted mother to rest five years ago, I’ve a beautiful wife, two kid sisters, five sisters-in-law, seven nieces and a beautiful daughter-in-law(from Canada, eh!) and I love and cherish them all as they do me. Stick to what ever it is you may know best because pop psychology sure don’t fit your pistol.


142 posted on 04/23/2011 8:53:28 AM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: jmacusa
You really think that after opening a war against the North...

Actually, if secession was constitutional (and State secession was nowhere prohibited by the U.S. Constitution), then it was the north that initiated hostilities by refusing to remove federal troops from military installations inside seceded States. As I noted earlier, the constitutionality of State secession is the critical issue.

...and if having won, the South would have stopped then and there?

Why not? The goal of the seceding States was to detach themselves from their former union - not rule over it.

I don’t.

Congratulations. And perhaps you believe that the American colonies, 'after opening a war against Great Britain and having won, would NOT have stopped then and there'...

;>)

143 posted on 04/23/2011 10:00:22 AM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("Sometimes I have to break the law in order to meet my management objectives." - Bill Calkins, BLM)
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To: Who is John Galt?

Victory in war changes things. Our intent was to separate from England. We did. Flush with that success and mindful that there was an entire continent to the west, well the rest is history.You seem to stay in the belief the South would have been content with just separating from the North. And then what? The North licks it’s wounds and then renews the fight another day? If the South had won they’ve have ‘’crossed the Rubicon’’. They would have had to take stock of where they were and realize, like it or not, there would have been bigger things at stake then just establishing a small confederation of states.


144 posted on 04/23/2011 10:24:49 AM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: jmacusa
Thanks for the reply!

Victory in war changes things. Our intent was to separate from England. We did. Flush with that success and mindful that there was an entire continent to the west, well the rest is history.

Westward expansion of the American States was not inconsistent with independence from Great Britain. Speaking of expansion, the self-styled Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union offered statehood to Canada ("Canada acceding to this confederation, and adjoining in the measures of the united States, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of this union"), but that offer was not renewed under the terms of the Constitution - another one of many differences between the two compacts.

You seem to stay in the belief the South would have been content with just separating from the North. And then what?

The two countries go their separate ways - like the United States and Canada?

;>)

The North licks it’s wounds and then renews the fight another day?

That decision would have been up to "the North"...

If the South had won they’ve have ‘’crossed the Rubicon’’. They would have had to take stock of where they were and realize, like it or not, there would have been bigger things at stake then just establishing a small confederation of states.

Interesting to meet someone here can read the minds of dead people...

;>)

145 posted on 04/23/2011 3:04:05 PM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("Sometimes I have to break the law in order to meet my management objectives." - Bill Calkins, BLM)
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To: Who is John Galt?

Interesting to meet someone here who can read the minds of dead people’’. Could say the same of you. It isn’t ‘’mindreading of dead people’’, it would simply be the situation the South found itself in. Victory isn’t always so clean-cut.


146 posted on 04/23/2011 3:58:17 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: jmacusa; dixiechick2000
Interesting to meet someone here who can read the minds of dead people’’. Could say the same of you. It isn’t ‘’mindreading of dead people’’, it would simply be the situation the South found itself in. Victory isn’t always so clean-cut.

You, my friend, are long on opinion and short on fact. 'Stick to that, because history sure don’t fit your pistol'...

;>)

147 posted on 04/23/2011 4:30:49 PM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("Sometimes I have to break the law in order to meet my management objectives." - Bill Calkins, BLM)
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To: Who is John Galt?

Really? I’m not so sure of your history. You seem to think the CSA would have had a neat little time of itself if it had prevailed. I don’t think so.


148 posted on 04/23/2011 8:07:30 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: jmacusa

Just because you have many female relatives, that doesn’t mean that you treat them well. I didn’t say what I said because of them and how you treat them. I said it because of how you treated me.

That ain’t pop psychology, bub.


149 posted on 04/23/2011 11:43:21 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Age, skill, wisdom, and a little treachery always overcome youth and arrogance!)
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To: Who is John Galt?

Bump dat! ;o)


150 posted on 04/23/2011 11:45:36 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Age, skill, wisdom, and a little treachery always overcome youth and arrogance!)
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