Posted on 06/09/2011 11:55:16 AM PDT by chatter4
Great Video. The video shows close-ups of the long form. It appears that the document was not typed at all, but, that all the letters were drawn freehand by an graphic artist. One could say it is Obama's "original Birth Certificate" in the sense that it is an original work of art.
ping
Should be posted in Breaking News!!
My guess is that a graphic artist actually drew all the letters freehand, and created a transparency, that was then laid down over a blank birth certificate, and then scanned at the Hawaii Health Department.
PING
You had three years to show that the “obviously fake” short form COLB was fake - yet nobody important seems convinced.
What do you plan on doing differently this time?
If you don’t do anything different, do you expect a different result?
>>What do you plan on doing differently this time?<<
Scrutinizing it more carefully. The first one was not a long form. The push was to get the long form. It worked.
Now the push is to determine if it is legit.
...What do you plan on doing differently this time?
If you don’t do anything different, do you expect a different result?...
I guess you are what they call a quitter. Did you ever play sports? It isn’t over till its over. Now a much larger number of people doubt Obama’s stories than 3 years ago. A snowball going downhill gets big enough to run over most things in its path so I suggest you get out of the way.
Until a forensics expert examines the original document, this will continue to be an issue.
The story about the pdf document was that Obama dispatched his lawyer to Hawaii to obtain two certified copies of the BC. I don't think there was any claim that someone in Hawaii laid a book with the BC on a scanner. My understanding is that they have all of these records on microfilm or computerized someplace and they printed the image from the microfilm or computer file on green safety paper. Supposedly the WH produced the pdf from of the documents the lawyer brought back from Hawaii. (I know that this may not be true but I'm pretty sure that it is the official story.)
The second thing the guy said was that the pdf is a low resolution image and that the AP image contains more detail. I questioned this just today on another thread. Please see post #554 on that thread.
ML/NJ
Yeah, worked like a charm. For 0bama.
You had three years to show the short form wasn't legit, yet nobody important seems convinced.
Do you plan on doing anything differently?
I didn’t become a “birther” until this year. I knew it was festering out there since before the election and, until this year, had the same attitude about it that you have.
I don’t think it will go away and think it is actually one of the “thousand cuts” from which Urkel is bleeding.
Hope the said “graphic artist” does not take walks in Fort Marcy Park.
To be blunt, the problem is not the BC, Urkel, etc. The problem is an incredibly gullible and arrogantly ignorant electorate. They simply will not listen to what they don’t want to listen to, and accept as fact anything that they want to believe no matter how scant the evidence. That does not mean you give up trying to convince those who are actually teachable.
Hawaii has originals and copies. What did Obama’s attorney request?
....On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama’s request, Director Fuddy personally witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the copies.....
I rowed Crew - but this isn't about me. When your boat is swamped and your numbers are cut in half - it is over - you are not even going to finish the race - let alone win it.
The snowball is not rolling downhill and growing - it hit a big stump that anybody watching could see it was going to hit, and it got cut in half.
You had three years to convince people the short form was a fake, yet nobody seems convinced.
Do you plan on doing anything different this time?
If you don't do anything differently, do you expect a different result?
Don’t beat that dead horse.
Sorry ML/NJ but you are wrong on both counts. The Hawaii DOH says that they scanned Obama’s document that was bound in a book, and gave two copies to Obama.
The white house pdf is 377KB and the AP pdf is 1047KB, so the AP file is a higher resolution. What you posted was not gained directly from the original AP pdf.
It’s not our responsibility to make people listen to truth. But it is our responsibility to listen to truth and to repeat it.
You are not upholding your responsibility.
....Do you plan on doing anything different this time?
If you don’t do anything differently, do you expect a different result? ......
.
Thanks for putting me in such high regards that my plans can change the world. Fact is my my plans have very little do with this issue. I am interested in the truth whatever it is and will push on while you can watch from shore. If need be I will bail out the water and continue on, I am not in the Titanic, Obama is. Whether Obama is removed, or resigns, etc etc I hope the truth comes ouot like with the little whiner Weiner.
All one has to do is look at the Kennedy Assasination Warren Report and realize we are rowing upstream against the powers to be but that is our choice and this time the result may actually be factual.
Judge Napolitano just made the penultimate observation:
“IT IS AGAINST THE LAW FOR CITIZENS TO LIE TO THE GOVERNMENT. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO LIE TO ITS CITIZENS.”
Regardless of the form presented was the data that was presented the actual data on record in HI? If so then it could be on scratch paper, a brown paper bag, photo copied, scanned, or what other means and would represent the actual data. The data is supposedly what is on record and two officials have placed themselves in the spotlight as saying it is. So again is the data presented the data on record? That’s the important question not on what piece of paper was it present on.
So the answer is.... NO.
You don't expect to do anything differently, and you don't really expect a different result.
Some people apparently enjoy being the lone voice in the wilderness crying out that the world is against them and nobody but them (and a select few) knows the “real” truth.
Do you ever wonder why nobody wants to follow you when you don't have a desirable destination in mind - and in fact are just going deeper and darker down the rabbit hole?
Three years to convince ANYBODY important that the short form COLB was a fake - and nothing.
Three years of screaming and crying and gnashing your teeth that the long form COLB is also a fake is going to accomplish the exact same thing.
Maybe you were satisfied with the results.
I am not.
Nobody sane who wants 0bama defeated via the electorate in 2012 was satisfied with the results from asking “Where is the Birth Certificate?”.
But nobody in the birther “movement” seems to have an actual destination in mind - or any plausible scenario where this all comes up roses for us.
As such it seems funny that even most birthers don't want to try to claim that this time things will be different and that THIS TIME we really got him where we want him!
Then the form matches the stain, yes??
I watched the video, and I disagree with everything he’s saying. I’m seeing similarities in letters, I have typed out similar documents on several old typwriters and examined their differences. Some of the letters have odd serifs, but other than that - I don’t see the proof in the actual text. The numbering is what I believe to be incorrect. The numbering, and it’s scanning artifacts, are suspect.
As an I.T. guy, who has worked with printing and publications for over a decade, I know exactly how OCR, PDFs and Scanners work. The only issue I see are the numbers. That, and the man in question - he’s a marxist traitor who has no business being in command of anything.
you took the bait and showed your lack of critical thinking and jumped to a conclusion not supported by facts.
Do whatever you wish, what have you changed over the last 3 years? Allmendream-that sounds like Obama, dreams of hope and change...lol.
I consistently warned that asking for the long form was going to blow up in peoples faces when he produced it - and that the hard core birthers would just say it was a fake anyway.
If I contributed to the birther issue being less damaging to conservatism - and less people signing on because conservatives were far from monolithic on this wacky conspiracy theory (or theories) - then I did much more than you.
The constant refrain of birthers is that anybody who tries to make them think things thorough or only rely upon actual facts (and not made up Pakistani travel bans) “sounds like 0bama”.
This is your one ‘good’ argument that you think should answer any and all questions about why the majority of conservatives are not on board, but it just shows how marginalized reactionary and idiotic the entire movement is.
So no, nothing different.
Three years of gnashing your teeth and wailing like a madman has done nothing. Glad to know that you don't actually expect anything different this time. Such is the beginning of acceptance of reality on your part.
Welcome back!
But will people who don't remember or never used manual typewriters or fountain pens or rubber stamps really be able to prove it?
If one doesn't bother to reacquaint oneself with the peculiarities and problems of the old analogue world, aren't the opinions which result pretty much worthless?
There's an AP pdf? I've only seen a jpeg. The AP document I've seen mostly lacks any vestige of the green background. Where did it go? Also the AP document I've seen does not show different resolutions for the Dunham and Sinclair signatures. I know how to get the resolutions to match if I start with different ones. How do you get different resolutions if you start with a document that has everything at the same resolution?
Teach me.
ML/NJ
I have a copy of the white house pdf. Can you please post a link to the larger AP pdf file?
Thanks in advance.
Ridiculous. Someone should get this poor joker “Analog Image Degradation when Copying and Scanning for Dummies.”
The best video to support the veracity of the birth certificate that could be presented.
I am a Conservative I will defend all of the Constitution, even that itty-bitty little section called Article 2, Section 1.
By the way, that Obama would produce a fake was predicted by conservatives. Conservatives now call it a fake because it **is** a fake. Conservatives stand for truth, too, even when it is not politically or socially expedient.
I see you are still tooting your horn-—I warned ...You might have a touch of credibility, but your previous Weinerlike rant of Eat Crow and like it has closed the door on that possibility.
I believe what real data is on file, is the data Gramps & Toots presented on behave of Stanley Jr. to register her Little Barry as a US citizen.
You will never see an authentic original long-form BC, only a computer generated 'abstract' that we are told is from data on file.
yet nobody seems convinced.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nobody....And, where it the link to that poll?
Besides, many birthers insist that the LF (and SF) COLB confirm that 0bama is not qualified. Hard to get confirmation from a supposedly fraudulent document.
If you planned on him producing a fake - then you planned on Trumps suicidal charge into the awaiting ambush that decimated your numbers. Way to plan!!!
And do you wonder why people are reticent to follow you into the next debacle, the next not well thought out wackiness, the next exposition on how it is all a fake, your next ever widening conspiracy?
It is LONG past time that birthers....
EAT CROW AND LIKE IT!
You are welcome to join those who are defending the Constitution and truth. If not,...well...that will be between you and God.
To: mcshot
Odd, is it not? He could set the whole thing to rest simply by producing the original birth certificate. Or could he?
15 posted on 09/09/2010 11:49:28 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]
To: RobbyS
Not likely.
A release of the “Long form” BC, no matter how well authenticated, would be said by many to be fake.
Moreover many (if not most) birthers maintain that so long as the father listed is Barrack Sr. (a non-citizen of the USA) then 0bama is not a natural born US citizen.
So the hue and cry that ‘for $20 this could all go away’ is delusional and best, and disingenuous at worst.
21 posted on 09/10/2010 11:02:14 AM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies ]
EAT CROW AND LIKE IT!!!!
There are two articles concerning facsimiles at the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners abstracts and are below at Volume 6 number 1 and Volume 8 number 1.
http://www.asqde.org/journal/journal_abstracts.html
I have no doubt that a thorough forensic inspection of the original BC can reveal whether it is likely to be a fake or not including what printer printed the current documents.
ML/NJ
You are welcome to join those who are defending the Constitution and truth. If not,...well...that will be between you and God.
The truth is that all evidence in evidence supports that 0bama was born in Hawaii.
Asking for the more complete form as some sort of “Trump card” that was going to remove him from office ended in disaster - as I predicted it would.
The hardcore birthers will continue to insist that BOTH forms are fraudulent - as I predicted.
0bama will be on the ballot - as I predicted.
He must be defeated.
This birther stuff is not working in our favor.
That crow has long passed its ‘sell by’ date.
Well....It’s between you and God.
So is your shame. Pretending it isn’t there isn’t going to make it go away.
I will pray for you.
Well....It’s between you and God.
Those defending the Constitution will insist the forgeries are forgeries because they **ARE** forgeries.
You are welcome to join those defending the truth.
I will pray for you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thank you. Prayers are always welcome.
In this case the earlier, short-form, computer generated "Certification of Live Birth" had no marks of authenticity, no marks of age and wear, so naturally people didn't accept such a document as authentic.
Now we have something that's supposed to be the long-form, vault copy "Certificate of Live Birth" that skeptics were clamouring for.
It might make sense if Birthers said it looked too good, too fresh, too new, too perfect and had to be a forgery.
But instead they're picking up on the imperfections that an authentic document would be bound to have, the messiness and irregularities of pen-written or manually-typed documents from pre-digital days and saying that those prove the document is a fake.
They're saying that because not all the 'a's look exactly alike or not all the words are perfectly aligned that the document has to be a forgery.
The problem is that those are the kind of things that one would expect in a genuine document of those days. A too perfect birth certificate would be more suspicious,
First you said, “The second thing the guy said was that the pdf is a low resolution image and that the AP image contains more detail. I questioned this just today on another thread.” Then you ask, “There’s an AP pdf?”
Yes, and just as I told you and was also meantioned in the video, and the other article that you questioned, the AP pgf is a higher resolution. You can obtain a copy here:
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/ap_obama_certificate_dm_110427.pdf
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