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Hospital Staff Flushed Miscarried Baby Down Toilet - Need Advice Please
Me

Posted on 06/09/2011 1:40:00 PM PDT by momfirst

Hello fellow Freepers. I am looking to you for some direction and advice on where to turn on behalf of my closest friend in the world. A very horrific incident happened this week to her daughter, who was expecting her first child. Unfortunately, she misscarried the baby at 13 weeks gestation. If the devastation of that was not enough, it happened in the hospital while she was on the toilet. The nurse instructed them to leave it there and she would go get a pathology box. Very shortly thereafter, another hospital staff member came into the room, donned gloves, and went into the shared bathroom (shared between two patient rooms), shut the door, and, to everyone's horror, flushed the toilet, baby and all. My friend and her family are just beside themselves in grief over not only the lost child, but the way it was handled compounds it a thousand-fold.

The hospital apologized and said they would start an investigation, but that was it. My friend really wants to know what the hospital is doing to make sure this never ever happens to another family, but will not get any replies from the hospital, just get's the standard run-around. They don't want to sue, they just want action. We think the least the hospital could do is to follow-up and reply to their requests - and I persionally think they should offer counseling services to their daughter. The poor thing can't go to the bathroom without bursting into tears.

Does anyone have any advice or direction to resources that might help advocate for this family? We can't find any organization to help since there was no physical harm done to any person. (after all, society doesn't consider a 13 week fetus a person)

And please, any prayers would be greatly appreciated for this young woman and her family.

Thank you!


TOPICS: Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: miscarriage; moralabsolutes; prolife
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To: momfirst

Full disclaimer, I work for a law firm. However, they will have to do at least 1 thing, which is sue the hospital. They may also have to call the press, but I’d call a lawyer first.

And I’m sorry, I understand people do want to profit from a bad experience but if you don’t hit folks in the pocketbook it doesn’t hurt enough. If they were to win money they could always donate it to charity.

I’m very sorry for your friend’s tragic loss.


51 posted on 06/09/2011 4:46:06 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: GladesGuru

I agree. The poster thought maybe when the nurse went in and flushed the toilet that she didn’t know what was in the toilet. The nurse came into the room, put on gloves and then proceeded to flush the toilet. You do not just walk into a room and decide to flush a toilet- she must have known was was in the toilet- thus the gloves.


52 posted on 06/09/2011 5:03:23 PM PDT by Cowgirl of Justice
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To: Minn
I had a emergency C section at 6 months. My daughter weighted less than 2 pounds and was 11 inches long. We had (and wanted) to bury her...Resurrection Cemetery near where we lived had a special area for even still born babies...Working on the GYN floor, we always put a speci-pan on the toilet for threatened or inevitable aborts. They went to pathology and then the parents could take the remains for burial....the funeral home came to get Ann Marie and she was buried before I even left the hospital...

One of my patients aborted into the speci-pan and we got an intern from Labor and delivery to cut the cord to the afterbirth before we would let her up from the toilet...I can understand that a small hospital might inadvertently flush, but the afterbirth is still inside the mother. The cord must be cut unless the gestation is just a few weeks...

Another woman I admitted was told by her doctor to keep all "tissue" she dropped. When I admitted her she handed me a small jar with a lid and a baby about 5 inches long in the bottle....the poor woman was a basket case until she was able to give me the jar she had in her purse...

It is very tramatic for most women, emotionally and physically...Early gestation usually does not have a well developed afterbirth.

53 posted on 06/09/2011 5:32:04 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...

.


54 posted on 06/09/2011 5:49:22 PM PDT by Coleus (Adult Stem Cells Work, there is NO Need to Harvest Babies for Their Body Parts!)
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To: momfirst

My wife had a miscarriage at home 13 weeks into her pregnancy and at our doctor’s instructions we retrieved the fetus from the toilet and took it to our doctor’s office for examination. Not sure how the remains were treated, but I’m sure they were not flushed. Fortunately she was carrying twins and our son was born 6 months later. He recently graduated with honors from law school and is an attorney in Minneapolis.


55 posted on 06/09/2011 5:53:37 PM PDT by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people's money" M. Thatcher)
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To: I Buried My Guns

This tragic treatment of this traumatized mother is such a reflection of the moral schizophrenia of our nation because we allow the shedding of innocent blood ~ 4,000 times every day.

We are hardening hearts toward God and his incredible creation as the most vulnerable among us are treated like trash.

Forgive us, Lord!!!


56 posted on 06/09/2011 6:02:52 PM PDT by Lesforlife (Fighting to end abortion in my lifetime!)
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To: momfirst

Prayers for your friend and her husband. The hospital did the wrong here.

Even if you are not Catholic, call the Diocese where you are, explain what happened and ask for legal help. They should be able to direct you in a Christ=like manner.


57 posted on 06/09/2011 6:19:54 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: momfirst

Your friend has my sympathy and prayers. Regarding this horrible tragedy, I would recommend that she sit down with close friends and family and make a list of what she wants the hospital to do. At a minimum, I would suggest including at least six consoling sessions, that the hospital develop a new fool-proof internal procedure for dealing with miscarriages like this one, and universal annual training in this procedure for all hospital personal. Once she has a list put together, she will need to pay a widely feared attorney for a half-hour to draft a letter demanding these items using the threat of a large monetary lawsuit.


58 posted on 06/09/2011 6:46:28 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: goat granny; momfirst
Working on the GYN floor, we always put a speci-pan on the toilet for threatened or inevitable aborts. They went to pathology and then the parents could take the remains for burial

momfirst, I have no direct knowledge of the "right" way to proceed but at a minimum, your friends should demand a hospital policy change similar to what goat granny just described here.

Have your friend write a simple, concise dispassionate letter to the hospital administrator outlining the event. State in the letter that they have no intent to sue or seek publicity, but that the hospital must change its practice in this regard, and that they must see the new policy in writing. Request a meeting in person so the administrator can show them in writing how it is being handled. Set a deadline in the letter for when they expect a written response and a meeting in person, and simply state they will find it necessary to contact a lawyer, the press, and the state hospital licensing board and JCAHO if they hear nothing in response by the deadline.

Send it registered mail with a return receipt, and follow up with a phone call in 3-4 business days to the administrators office.

59 posted on 06/09/2011 7:04:34 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Thank you, Dr. Brian Kopp. What you suggested is a great way to start. Wonderful advice! The policies goat granny worked under seem medically appropriate AND compassionate.


60 posted on 06/09/2011 7:23:05 PM PDT by momfirst
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To: momfirst

Prayers said for all concerned.


61 posted on 06/09/2011 8:19:36 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; momfirst

Dr. Kopp You gave an excellent reply. Momfirst: The result should be no other woman has to go through what your friend went through.. She could help many other women with her experience and it would be a postive result.


62 posted on 06/09/2011 10:16:36 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: goat granny; Dr. Brian Kopp; momfirst

I know nothing except that state boards control nearly everything. That said, isn’t a hospital regulated by a state board? And if the hospital doesn’t give a satisfactory response to the Mom of the little one, can they appeal to the regulatory board?


63 posted on 06/10/2011 5:03:06 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: momfirst; Golden Gate; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


64 posted on 06/10/2011 6:08:55 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Lawsuits don’t actually get the attention of hospitals. Even small hospitals probably have 20 or so active malpractice suits going on at any given time, and large hospitals can literally be fielding hundreds at a time.


65 posted on 06/10/2011 8:28:42 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: ncalburt

Sorry, but the hospital isn’t going to lose it’s JCAHO status over this incident. Even if the hospital has magnet status through JCAHO, it won’t lose it over this.


66 posted on 06/10/2011 8:32:46 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: 21twelve
Although would seem to me that any number of things can happen in a hospital (especially bathrooms) where you would want it protected immediatly. Bodily fluids (vomit, blood, feces, etc.) that may have diesease, etc.

Nope, special containers are used for anything that might require testing. Some are used bedside, some fit into the toilet, but once something hits the toilet water, it's contaminated and the lab won't touch it.

67 posted on 06/10/2011 8:39:40 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: Ronaldus Magnus
Once she has a list put together, she will need to pay a widely feared attorney for a half-hour to draft a letter demanding these items using the threat of a large monetary lawsuit.

I'm amazed at the number of FReepers in this thread who think that hospitals are intimidated by lawsuits. Lawsuits, and lots of them are just part of the day to day operation of any hospital. This hospital probably has at the very least a dozen going on right now where someone actually died as the alleged result of someone's actions. I hate to break this to you guys, but an incident like this would be handed down to junior members of the legal team to settle or litigate.

68 posted on 06/10/2011 8:47:45 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: DJ MacWoW

In a word, no. The state board is busy with thousands upon thousands of complaints that far overshadow this one.


69 posted on 06/10/2011 8:49:55 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: Melas

Right. No sense in trying that because everything they’ve tried so far has been so danged effective.


70 posted on 06/10/2011 8:54:17 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (If you think it's time to bury your weapons.....it's time to dig them up.)
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To: Melas

You are deranged if you think that flushing someone’s baby is a small thing.


71 posted on 06/10/2011 9:52:01 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Don’t twist my words. I’m trying to tell you that it’s not going to be a priority for the state board. That’s just a fact whether you like it or not.


72 posted on 06/10/2011 10:02:15 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: Melas

I didn’t twist your words. You said they receive complaints that “far overshadow this one.”. Your words. Flushing someones baby is serious. It shows a total lack of protocol and professionalism. It also shows a lack of compassion and respect. Also why did she lose the baby. They callously flushed the answer. NONE of these things are small things.


73 posted on 06/10/2011 10:13:22 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW

It’s still not going to be a priority. Again, that’s just a fact and nothing is going to change it.

A for why she lost the baby, I’ll bet that’s not in question. The mere fact that she was obviously admitted as an antepartum patient at 13 weeks is a good indicator that something was not only wrong, but that it was already known. Healthy women with healthy pregnancies don’t have hospital rooms to spontaneously abort in. The cause thereof is probably no further than the diagnosis for admission.


74 posted on 06/10/2011 10:28:41 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: Melas

You might want to reread what was posted.


75 posted on 06/10/2011 10:36:16 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: Melas

False. She was admitted because her water broke & the miscarriage was imminent. That in no way implies the cause of miscarriage was known. That could only be determined by pathological examination.

The fact that you see this as insignificant means you are part of the problem.


76 posted on 06/10/2011 10:47:39 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Melas
I'm amazed at the number of FReepers in this thread who think that hospitals are intimidated by lawsuits.

I'm amazed that there is still someone in this country who is ignorant of the fact that lawsuits are one of the largest areas of expense for most hospitals in the US. The costs of liability and defensive medicine now represent 10% of health care spending. Of course lawsuits are treated seriously. To spout off on a public forum that hospital administrations are unconcerned with lawsuits is foolishly presumptuous and absurdly ignorant.

I hate to break this to you guys, but an incident like this would be handed down to junior members of the legal team to settle or litigate.

Had you read the original question (and I doubt that someone so certain in their errors would) you would already know that a negotiated non-monetary settlement is what the victim in this case is trying to obtain. The victim wants to make sure that this horrible procedural error never happens to anyone else. It's a noble cause and worthy of our reasoned consideration and thoughtful assistance.

I'll also add that I think it is sad and quite telling that a poster would strike out so vehemently (and so erroneously) at those offering assistance to the sorrowful. Such an abject lack of empathy reveals a great deal about that poster. I don't know what you have done, but I hope you can find forgiveness.

77 posted on 06/10/2011 11:07:45 AM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: Ronaldus Magnus
To spout off on a public forum that hospital administrations are unconcerned with lawsuits is foolishly presumptuous and absurdly ignorant.

I know now, and have known far too many people in hospital administration, and the medical field in general to believe otherwise. You may continue in your fairy tale belief that the threat of a lawsuit causes panic in administration, but that just makes you the one who is absurdly ignorant.

I don't know what you have done, but I hope you can find forgiveness.

Spare me the amateur psychology.

78 posted on 06/10/2011 11:33:12 AM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: DJ MacWoW
Once a year the hospital would have an outside audit at each nursing station. Check utility rooms, pulling charts to see if notes were present. (nursing notes) cleanliness etc. But each hospital has their own policy's for everything up to and including how to give a patient a medication....this can vary from hospital to hospital...Includes what a N A can do, what an LPN can do, and what is the responsibility of RN’s are....Each floor would have a policy book and it was about 4 inches high....But like most things in the government, they were given a weeks notice that an inspector would be spending a day or two at the hospital...Every department went through the inspection... Pharmacy, kitchen, housekeeeping etc...

State boards were responsible to test for being licenced or registered in your choosen occupation..

79 posted on 06/10/2011 11:41:30 AM PDT by goat granny
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To: goat granny

Thanks GG.


80 posted on 06/10/2011 12:02:20 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW

There are so many “state boards” that I am sure there is a department in charge of making sure each hospital’s policy is up to certain standards. After that, its up to the hospital to see that its employee’s meet those standards..


81 posted on 06/10/2011 12:19:44 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Melas
I know now, and have known far too many people in hospital administration, and the medical field in general to believe otherwise.

Lofty claims of personal qualifications are meaningless on an anonymous internet forum. If they were true, however, you wouldn't be making all these foolish and erroneous statements.

You may continue in your fairy tale belief that the threat of a lawsuit causes panic in administration,

No one said anything about causing panic.

but that just makes you the one who is absurdly ignorant.

Claiming that the fear of lawsuits plays no role in the development hospital policies and protocols completely undermines your already sinking credibility. Almost every facet of health care today is affected by the threat of liability. Anyone with an even peripheral understanding of the medical field would know this.

Spare me the amateur psychology.

Then I sincerely hope that you are receiving professional assistance in this area. The narcissist hostility you exhibit in your posts toward people with sick, dying, or dead children is disturbing to watch.

82 posted on 06/10/2011 12:22:35 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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Comment #83 Removed by Moderator

To: Ronaldus Magnus

Lofty? Knowing people who have jobs is not a lofty claim. It is not a lofty claim to admit that my wife has worked in hospitals for thirty years and that our social circle is made up almost entirely of doctors, nurses and administrators. No more lofty than a lifetime employee of car dealerships claiming to understand the automobile industry. Chances are he does.

And again, enough with the amateur psychology. In the vernacular, you suck at it.


84 posted on 06/10/2011 1:32:34 PM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: Ronaldus Magnus

Lofty? Knowing people who have jobs is not a lofty claim. It is not a lofty claim to admit that my wife has worked in hospitals for thirty years and that our social circle is made up almost entirely of doctors, nurses and administrators. No more lofty than a lifetime employee of car dealerships claiming to understand the automobile industry. Chances are he does.

And again, enough with the amateur psychology. In the vernacular, you suck at it.


85 posted on 06/10/2011 1:32:46 PM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: Ronaldus Magnus

Lofty? Knowing people who have jobs is not a lofty claim. It is not a lofty claim to admit that my wife has worked in hospitals for thirty years and that our social circle is made up almost entirely of doctors, nurses and administrators. No more lofty than a lifetime employee of car dealerships claiming to understand the automobile industry. Chances are he does.

And again, enough with the amateur psychology. In the vernacular, you suck at it.


86 posted on 06/10/2011 1:32:56 PM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: Ronaldus Magnus

Lofty? Knowing people who have jobs is not a lofty claim. It is not a lofty claim to admit that my wife has worked in hospitals for thirty years and that our social circle is made up almost entirely of doctors, nurses and administrators. No more lofty than a lifetime employee of car dealerships claiming to understand the automobile industry. Chances are he does.

And again, enough with the amateur psychology. In the vernacular, you suck at it.


87 posted on 06/10/2011 1:33:18 PM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: Ronaldus Magnus

Lofty? Knowing people who have jobs is not a lofty claim. It is not a lofty claim to admit that my wife has worked in hospitals for thirty years and that our social circle is made up almost entirely of doctors, nurses and administrators. No more lofty than a lifetime employee of car dealerships claiming to understand the automobile industry. Chances are he does.

And again, enough with the amateur psychology. In the vernacular, you suck at it.


88 posted on 06/10/2011 1:33:42 PM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: Ronaldus Magnus

Lofty? Knowing people who have jobs is not a lofty claim. It is not a lofty claim to admit that my wife has worked in hospitals for thirty years and that our social circle is made up almost entirely of doctors, nurses and administrators. No more lofty than a lifetime employee of car dealerships claiming to understand the automobile industry. Chances are he does.

And again, enough with the amateur psychology. In the vernacular, you suck at it.


89 posted on 06/10/2011 1:33:53 PM PDT by Melas (Sent via Galaxy Tab)
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To: momfirst

Lawyers are good for somethings and sometimes. This is one of those.


90 posted on 06/10/2011 1:35:40 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: PieterCasparzen

My advice: Get the Health Department after the hospital and yes, of course, retain an attorney.


91 posted on 06/10/2011 1:43:41 PM PDT by juliej
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To: momfirst
They don't want to sue, they just want action.

These are mutually incompatible desires.

92 posted on 06/10/2011 1:45:59 PM PDT by Sloth (If a tax cut constitutes "spending" then every time I don't rob a bank should count as a "desposit.")
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To: momfirst

You might want to contact Fr. Fank Pavone, Priests for Life, too.


93 posted on 06/10/2011 2:28:17 PM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: Melas
Lofty? Knowing people who have jobs is not a lofty claim.

It certainly is on an anonymous internet forum. Only a fool tries to claim an unprovable expertise.

It is not a lofty claim to admit that my wife has worked in hospitals for thirty years and that our social circle is made up almost entirely of doctors, nurses and administrators.

There you go again. Unless you are willing to state who you are, who they are, and what your relationship is, this unverifiable assertion has no bearing whatsoever on the conversation. Provide some real evidence for your silly statements. Nobody on an anonymous internet forum cares about your imaginary friends.

No more lofty than a lifetime employee of car dealerships claiming to understand the automobile industry. Chances are he does.

Although that statement in itself is doubtful, your car salesmen would be a fool to spout off on an internet forum claiming to be some kind of expert without being able to support his case with any verifiable facts.

And again, enough with the amateur psychology. In the vernacular, you suck at it.

I never said I was an amateur, but then again, even an amateur could see that you have some serious unresolved issues. Good luck with that.

And P.S., there is no need to keep posting the exact same thing six different times. It looks foolish enough the first time!

94 posted on 06/10/2011 8:02:08 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: momfirst

my sympathy to the mom.

However, a 13 week unborn baby is pretty small, and often when you miscarry, it is macerated, so maybe the one who flushed it didn’t notice it, especially with the blood etc. that goes along with a miscarriage.

Indeed, most pregnancies that are lost that early don’t have a recognizable fetus because most miscarriages are because the fetus didn’t grow right, or stopped growing or was malformed or had chromosome problems.

On the other hand, the usual way to dispose of such babies is to burn them in the hospital creamatorium with other tissue.

It is rare to hold a funeral for miscarriages this early...

I remember one where the mom had been infertile for years and lost the baby at 17 weeks, and we arranged a funeral for her child at the local Episcopal church (the priest there was sympathetic and knew the family). The docs where she miscarried thought we were nuts, but it did help mom and the family to mourn the much wanted child.

So perhaps the local pastor can arrange a prayer service or memorial mass for the baby, who is in God’s hands.


95 posted on 06/11/2011 4:35:21 PM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: momfirst

1. JOINT COMMISSION.

2. LAWYER NOW!

I’m so sorry for all involved. Do not hesitate to pursue FULL legal rights; that WILL prevent future tragedies for others.


96 posted on 06/12/2011 5:46:43 PM PDT by baa39
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To: Minn

Minn,

Yours is the most heartless comment I have ever read on FR, or on any message board actually.

It’s obvious you’ve never had a child, or lost one, by miscarriage or any way.

Or if you have, maybe you are just one callous, cold....well.

If you cannot comfort or offer useful advice to people in grief and mourning, then the best thing to do is STFU.


97 posted on 06/12/2011 6:02:11 PM PDT by baa39
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To: Melas

So what? That’s the point isn’t it? To settle or litigate. The victims already stated they are not looking to get rich, but to ensure policy changes and to resolve things with the administration to their satisfaction, and to protect future patients. I imagine an attorney who deals with medical matters would be the perfect person to represent their concerns.

To do this alone, the emotional trauma, well, my feeling as a woman, I couldn’t handle the letters, meetings, calls, details and such. The numerous rehashing of the incident that would be required possibly by personnel and such.

I would want an attorney, for legal advice and clarity, because he will know what to say and how to get some justice and some correct procedures in place. I’m not saying be vindictive, but this is what attorneys are for, to represent our legal interests when we cannot ourselves.


98 posted on 06/12/2011 6:26:04 PM PDT by baa39
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To: baa39
It’s obvious you’ve never had a child, or lost one, by miscarriage or any way.

Actually, I have.

Or if you have, maybe you are just one callous, cold....well.

No, just wise enough to realize that obsessing on the fate of a small dead body is counterproductive when grieving a loss.

If you cannot comfort or offer useful advice to people in grief and mourning, .

Some very useful advise is "Don't obsess about the fate of a dead body, or entangle yourself in a dispute about it. Understand that sometimes things just happen. Nobody meant to cause you any further pain. Their is nothing whatsoever to be gained by pursuing any action whatsoever over the matter. Let it go and get on with your life. Dead bodies are, well, dead. You are alive."

then the best thing to do is STFU

Or go to hell maybe.

99 posted on 06/12/2011 7:58:55 PM PDT by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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To: baa39
I would want an attorney,

Yes. Because, as we all know, the best way to recover and move on from a loss that nature dealt to us is to get lawyers involved and start recriminations.

100 posted on 06/12/2011 8:03:47 PM PDT by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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