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When is the last time a GOP "establishment" guy ever lost the nomination?

Posted on 06/15/2011 7:35:03 AM PDT by no gnu taxes

I can't think of it. I mean McCain wasn't even the front runner last election for most of the race, and at this time in 2007, he was in serious trouble. But he was definitely the establishment guy and he ended up winning.

Is there any way we don't end up with a nominee Romney? I can only say that it's better than nominee McCain.


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1 posted on 06/15/2011 7:35:06 AM PDT by no gnu taxes
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To: no gnu taxes

My guess is Ronald Reagan..


2 posted on 06/15/2011 7:36:22 AM PDT by Moby Grape (Formerly Impeach the Boy...name change necessary after the Marxist won)
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To: no gnu taxes

The last time the GOP establishment candidate lost the nomination was 1980. The country club Republicans are still holding that grudge.


3 posted on 06/15/2011 7:37:16 AM PDT by Dahoser (Separation of church and state? No, we need separation of media and state.)
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To: no gnu taxes

Ronald Reagan

Sarah Palin


4 posted on 06/15/2011 7:38:17 AM PDT by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: Dahoser

It’s a bit dicey calling Bush the younger the establishment candidate when he beat McCain (another establishment candidate).


5 posted on 06/15/2011 7:40:19 AM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: no gnu taxes

It’s going to come down to a battle for the R party between traditional/moderate/RINO faction and the Tea Party conservative faction. If we don’t win, I fully expect to see a 3rd party split, which will be the end of the R party.

McCain was so far down he had to carry his own suitcase to the NH debates, yet magically he became the Chosen One. RINOS are always about the “issue of the day”, i.e. they got behind McCain because they though his military record could win on Terrorism.

Never mind conservative values, a “reach-across-the-aisle” history or compromise, weakness on social issues, etc. To hell with that, I’m voting for a true blue Conservative this time around, no matter who the RNC nominates.


6 posted on 06/15/2011 7:40:42 AM PDT by bigbob
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To: no gnu taxes

“Is there any way we don’t end up with a nominee Romney?”

Live boy/dead girl.

“I can only say that it’s better than nominee McCain.”

Nominally but yes. I despise John McCain with every cell in my body. Could never vote for him even if the 2nd coming of Ronald Reagan was the running mate; Oh wait, she was/s.

I don’t hate Mitt Romney, I just don’t trust him. Would he be better for the nation than 4 years of Obama with no re-election to worry about? Maybe, but our nation needs better than that. It is no longer acceptable to simply be “better than the other guy,” we need a conservative and I am not sure that Romney fills the bill.


7 posted on 06/15/2011 7:41:12 AM PDT by Grunthor (Make the lefts' collective brain cell implode; Cain/Bolton 2012.)
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To: no gnu taxes

Gerald Ford


8 posted on 06/15/2011 7:41:12 AM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: Durus

Not really dicey at all, with two in the running the establishment couldn’t lose.


9 posted on 06/15/2011 7:42:15 AM PDT by Grunthor (Make the lefts' collective brain cell implode; Cain/Bolton 2012.)
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To: no gnu taxes

The Establishment has screwed it up too bad this time. They won’t be able to foist their usual Dole/McCain type off on us.


10 posted on 06/15/2011 7:42:27 AM PDT by Fantasywriter
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To: no gnu taxes
When is the last time a GOP "establishment" guy ever lost the nomination?

I'd say 1980 (Reagan over Bush). Additionally, when was the last time a GOP POTUS primary was held after the Tea Party Nation Movement was formed?

This, combined with Ma0bama in office, is the Game Changer. The environment is target rich. It took a Carter to get a Reagan. 2012=1980. Game on!

11 posted on 06/15/2011 7:43:23 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
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To: no gnu taxes

The problem is that the American Republican population votes and not Free Republic voters only. If Free Republic voters were the only ones who could vote, we would have a perfect World. We really need to work that out some way. We are the top 10 percent conservatives probably in the World.


12 posted on 06/15/2011 7:43:42 AM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: no gnu taxes

I’d have to say Reagan as well. Dole was the low point in my lifetime, I think.


13 posted on 06/15/2011 7:47:31 AM PDT by No!
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To: no gnu taxes

Reagan.


14 posted on 06/15/2011 7:48:53 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: no gnu taxes
Is there any way we don't end up with a nominee Romney? I can only say that it's better than nominee McCain.

In 2008, the tri-headed monster was called "Rudy McRomney" for a reason.

15 posted on 06/15/2011 7:49:22 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("Mr. Romney and Mr. Obama are not rivals, they're running mates." - Rep. Thaddeus McCotter)
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To: No!

Dole could have been a good President. It was a shame her husband ran instead.


16 posted on 06/15/2011 7:50:05 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Grunthor
we need a conservative I am not sure that Romney fills the bill.

I am VERY VERY VERY sure, he does NOT fit the bill.
17 posted on 06/15/2011 7:51:46 AM PDT by presently no screen name ( The Palin Party: The Party of Patriots.)
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To: Grunthor

That’s a good point. There is usually more than one establishment candidate.


18 posted on 06/15/2011 7:51:46 AM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: no gnu taxes

Romeny =establishment
Bachman = establishment but for vp
cain= zero chance of winning
Pawlenty = nobody cares
Huntsman = VERY establishment
ronpaul = comic relief and clueless
anyone else is just dead in the water.


19 posted on 06/15/2011 7:52:14 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: no gnu taxes

No it isn’t.


20 posted on 06/15/2011 7:55:59 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Grunthor

Mitt may be the designated place holder for the establishment at the moment, but I think that they’d be just as happy with Rooty, T-Paw or several others whom they could set up to take a dive for Obozo.


21 posted on 06/15/2011 7:56:17 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: thackney

>> Dole could have been a good President. It was a shame her husband ran instead.<<

You’re kidding, right? She’s much worse than he. One of the worst senators and ran the absolute worst senatorial campaign ever from NC.


22 posted on 06/15/2011 7:58:22 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (American Thinker Columnist / Rush ghost contributor)
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To: no gnu taxes

A little revisionist history going on here.

Many people forget that George W. Bush was not the early establishment choice, he was too tongue tied and too conservative. In 2000, his main opponents were Steve Forbes and John McCain, and it wasn’t until Bush won South Carolina (until then, not considered a major Primary) that it seemed inevitable that he would be the nominee.

Ronald Reagan almost defeated Gerald Ford for the GOP nomination in 1976, setting himself as the candidate most likely to win the nomination in 1980. He was the establishment choice in 1980.


23 posted on 06/15/2011 7:59:05 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: no gnu taxes

The NON-establishment guy Paladino crushed the GOP hand-picked debutante “Little ricky” Lazio

Then the NY GOP (or D’Lite’) political organization took over control and made sure he lost to Cuomo


24 posted on 06/15/2011 7:59:28 AM PDT by Mr. K (CAPSLOCK! -Unleash the fury! [Palin/Bachman 2012- unbeatable ticket])
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To: no gnu taxes
ROMNEYSRECORD
25 posted on 06/15/2011 8:07:24 AM PDT by FrankR (A people that values its privileges above its principles will soon lose both.)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
Many people forget that George W. Bush was not the early establishment choice, he was too tongue tied and too conservative. In 2000, his main opponents were Steve Forbes and John McCain, and it wasn’t until Bush won South Carolina (until then, not considered a major Primary) that it seemed inevitable that he would be the nominee.

I would respectively disagree. Bush was The GOP choice going back to early 1999. McCain was an upstart. McCain's win in in NH was an orgasm for the MSM. Bush won a tough battle in SC, and then lost in MI. Frankly, Bush had a network set up over the US as a whole which made his candidacy a foregone conclusion, but the MSM was giddy over McCain's early success. After MI, Bush pretty much took over.

26 posted on 06/15/2011 8:08:04 AM PDT by no gnu taxes
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To: no gnu taxes

Everybody should read Phyllis Schlafley’s “A Choice Not an Echo.” This same thing has been going on since 1940. The elites wanted Willkie over Taft, Dewey over Taft, Dewey over Taft, Eisenhower over Taft, Nixon over Goldwater, Goldwater succeeded in 1964, Nixon over Reagan (although Reagan was a late-comer), Ford over Reagan, Reagan succeeded in 1980, there wasn’t really a real conservative choice in ‘88, Dole over Buchanan, Bush was more conservative than McCain though barely and succeeded in 2000, McCain over Romney/not much choice.


27 posted on 06/15/2011 8:12:01 AM PDT by cotton1706
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To: no gnu taxes

George Shultz was the architect of Bush’s groundwork. The organization of people on the ground for Bush was truly amazing, but if you listened to the pundits, Bush was destined to fall to Forbes or McCain because he didn’t speak well and was “unelectable” in the general election because he was so conservative.

The problem is using the term “establishment”. What do you mean by that? I don’t think you will find almost any candidate getting double digit votes that isn’t supported by someone in the “establishment”.


28 posted on 06/15/2011 8:21:33 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
Methinks the revisionism is yours. A lot depends on what part of the establishment you're talking about.

George W. Bush was the overwhelming pick of the GOP governors and the state party functionaries. There was some resistance to him on the Hill, but he overcame that early because the party pros didn't have another horse to back. McCain was even less popular with them than with movement conservatives. He's always been a loose cannon and the professionals knew that better than anyone. Before NH Bush was widely regarded as inevitable (which he very nearly was).

There was a brief moment when a few wishful-thinking leftoids in the media thought McCain might catch him. That moment lasted from the time the polls closed in NH to the time they closed in SC. In reality, McCain never had a prayer. The establishment was with W and conservatives considered him the less imperfect of two very flawed candidates.

In 1980 it may have been Reagan's turn, but he was hardly the establishment choice. The party professionals were desperate to field anybody but Reagan. They went through a RINO Who's Who in their effort to stop him, finally settling on Bush, Sr. They didn't succeed, but it wasn't for want of trying. Reagan was so unpopular in a certain segment of the party that Congressman John Anderson mounted an independent campaign against him that netted something like 6 per cent of the vote.

The Republican apparatus is progressive and Reagan wasn't. The pros reconciled themselves to him with great reluctance, and some of them never did. Regan was the antithesis of an establishment candidate.

29 posted on 06/15/2011 8:33:09 AM PDT by fluffdaddy (Who died and made the Supreme Court God?)
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To: longtermmemmory

Youve got to be kidding. Bachman is TEA party


30 posted on 06/15/2011 8:35:08 AM PDT by bt579 (Barack Obama- the "FOOD STAMP PRESIDENT" 47,000,000 and rising)
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To: thackney
Wrong. Elisabeth the b!tch (she does not and never will deserve a last name other than that) had landed the position as head of the Red Cross in the mid-nineties. From which lofty position she was extracting a heavy amount of graft money.

After the Oklahoma City bombing, people from the local area began to pour gifts of food, clothing, household goods, even some cars upon the families of the victims.

Elisabeth’s Red Cross ran an add urging people to stop sending things directly to the families, and give to the Red Cross, which would then handle distribution. They then sold everything and put the money in their general fund.

When this came to light, Oklahomans were naturally incensed, Elisabeth was defiant, and Bob Dole refused to comment. When Bob later ran for president, people in the plains states made sure this was not forgotten.

31 posted on 06/15/2011 8:36:28 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: no gnu taxes

When’s the last time this country was headed for default? Never.

Things have changed in the last 3 years.
With the Tea-Party still gaining strength, the old models don’t apply anymore.

It is no guarantee that the Establishment GOP will steamroll the grassroots today like they have in the past.


32 posted on 06/15/2011 8:37:49 AM PDT by tennmountainman
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

Perhaps there are degrees of “establishment”. A person whose family has been in the business of politics on the Federal Level for generations would be the most “establishment”. This could apply to the mover-and-shaker families of either political party.


33 posted on 06/15/2011 8:40:02 AM PDT by ngat
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To: Grunthor
You LOVE Romney, Grunthor.

Look at him laugh with the fellow behind him.



34 posted on 06/15/2011 8:42:49 AM PDT by Diogenesis (Nothing surpasses the complexity of the human mind. - Leto II: Dar-es-Balat)
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To: Diogenesis

“You LOVE Romney”

I love no politician. Frankly you’ve been stalking me with these lies for weeks now and I am getting pretty sick of it. Post a link to me saying how much I love Romeny or STFU!


35 posted on 06/15/2011 8:45:01 AM PDT by Grunthor (Make the lefts' collective brain cell implode; Cain/Bolton 2012.)
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To: fluffdaddy
In 1980 it may have been Reagan's turn, but he was hardly the establishment choice.

Maybe, but he had already fought a tooth and nail battle with Ford to prove himself a viable candidate and after his Convention speech that year, it seemed almost inevitable he was going to be the next GOP nominee.

36 posted on 06/15/2011 8:54:47 AM PDT by no gnu taxes
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To: bt579

no she established her tea party caucus to CLAIM the title of leader of the tea party.

Bachman is a typical politician taking the position to get herself elected.

(remember she supported jimmy carter)


37 posted on 06/15/2011 9:06:02 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
Ronald Reagan ... was the establishment choice in 1980.

Hardly. He may have been the front-runner to win (since he almost beat Ford in '76 and many regretted he didn't after the fact) but Reagan was never the establishment's choice. They didn't trust him and thought he was too aggressive, too divisive and too conservative. Bush I ultimately was the establishment choice which was why he won the Iowa primary. You forget the Nashua, NH 'I am paying for this microphone Mr. Green' moment

Fast Times At Nashua High (an awesome rendition of this classic story)

Long the front-runner for the Republican nomination, Reagan suffered a stunning upset in Iowa at the hands of George H. W. Bush on January 21. Worse for Reagan, his campaign’s internal polling showed the former California governor falling 21 points behind Bush in New Hampshire. If Reagan lost to Bush in New Hampshire, his campaign would be over. Forever. There was no tomorrow. This was it for the Gipper.

38 posted on 06/15/2011 9:07:51 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
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To: MrEdd

you raise a good point if not a tangent.

NEVER donate to the red cross. They do not give direct support.

They have their red cross vests for photo ops and after every disaster they beg for money to go to their general fund.


39 posted on 06/15/2011 9:08:16 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory

In 1976 over half the voters in America supported Jimmy Carter. You really want to hold someone to what happened over 30 years ago?


40 posted on 06/15/2011 9:13:48 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: no gnu taxes
It seemed inevitable to whom? Reagan waged a good campaign in ‘76 and inspired conservatives. He also inspired the progressive half of the Party, but not in a good way. They feared and loathed him and they controlled the party apparatus.

Conservatives heard his convention speech and saw an excruciating missed opportunity. Progressives saw a dodged bullet. They weren't thinking that Reagan would be their guy the next time around. They were thinking they'd buried him for good. They had fought the tooth and nail battle to which you refer and assumed that their victory was both decisive and final. On both sides of the great divide the thinking was that Reagan's time had passed.

You have forgotten that the early front-runner in 1980 wasn't Reagan but Gerald Ford, who was the Establishment's first choice. It only got to be Reagan's turn because Ford stepped aside. Even then Bob Dole had a good claim to be the next in line as Ford's running mate.

Reagan didn't have an Establishment wind at his back at any time in the 1980 election cycle. He wasn't quite the insurgent he was in 1976 because there was no incumbent GOP President in the race, but he was still running against those who traditionally control the party who have given us Hoover, Landon, Wilke, Dewey, Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Bush, Dole, Bush and McCain, progressives all.

There was nothing inevitable about Reagan. His presidency resulted from a series of improbable events that nobody anticipated as the 1980 cycle got underway (let alone in ‘76). For once the Establishment was frustrated and conservatives caught lightening in a bottle. It's rare, but it happened once and it can happen again.

41 posted on 06/15/2011 9:33:38 AM PDT by fluffdaddy (Who died and made the Supreme Court God?)
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To: fluffdaddy

Damn straight. Good post.


42 posted on 06/15/2011 9:40:01 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
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To: no gnu taxes

Before Reagan, there was Goldwater. The establishment candidate was Nelson Rockefeller.


43 posted on 06/15/2011 9:41:18 AM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: no gnu taxes

44 posted on 06/15/2011 9:44:07 AM PDT by EternalVigilance ('We hold these truths to be self-evident...' Are you still part of that 'we'?)
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To: fluffdaddy

You might recall that in national polls leading up to the Primaries, Reagan was vastly ahead of all other candidates.


45 posted on 06/15/2011 9:50:04 AM PDT by no gnu taxes
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To: no gnu taxes
vastly ahead ≠ "Establishment". Reagan was the pre-primary front-runner.

And, vastly ahead isn't even close to a description of the reality of that campaign as shown in post #38. And the reason it was so close? ... IMHO, because the 'Establishment' didn't want Reagan.

46 posted on 06/15/2011 10:08:45 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
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To: no gnu taxes
Of course Reagan was ahead in early polling once Ford opted out. He had the same advantage Romney has now — he was the only familiar name in the field. Everyone with the name recognition to compete in a pre-campaign poll chose not to run. That advantage disappeared when Bush won Iowa. Suddenly Reagan was down in NH by more than 20 points and swirling in the drain. He managed to turn it around, but it was a near-run thing (the incident at Nashua High School was pivotal) and a lesser candidate couldn't have managed it.

There may have been someone, somewhere foolish enough to think Reagan was inevitable as 1979 became 1980. John Sears may have been overconfident. But Reagan always faced a hard uphill climb against a hostile Party apparatus and it was only by the grace of God that things turned out as they did.

47 posted on 06/15/2011 10:14:55 AM PDT by fluffdaddy (Who died and made the Supreme Court God?)
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To: Servant of the Cross
Nice.

I remember sitting with my Mom, watching TV on inauguration day with the split screen showing Reagan being sworn in while the Iranian hostages were being released, and thinking that I had to remember how that felt, being so overwhelmed with pride and happiness and not let myself forget.

48 posted on 06/15/2011 1:09:30 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Deb
I remember sitting with my Mom, watching TV on inauguration day with the split screen showing Reagan being sworn in while the Iranian hostages were being released ...

BTW, where did the Reagan = Establishment folks go?

49 posted on 06/15/2011 1:14:19 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
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To: thackney

True that! I really admire(d) her in the day.


50 posted on 06/15/2011 1:17:51 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Demons run when a good man goes to war.)
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