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Vanity- Loss of Special Operations Servicemen
self | 08/07/2011 | joesjane

Posted on 08/07/2011 7:42:45 AM PDT by joesjane

Today my husband and I mourn the loss of 31 Special Operations Servicemen on last Saturday. Last Saturday my husband lost several friends.

This morning we were listening to the Mike Slater conservative radio show over our morning coffee. His subject of conversation was the loss of these warriors. He posed the question of why are we still in Afghanistan?

Both myself and my husband have served in the middle east, spending time in Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan. I have felt a growing sense of anger regarding the war for some time and today I was moved to post a vanity comment about this subject. I hope I don't ramble too much and I thank the free republic members in advance for allowing me the opportunity to vent.

Once upon a time I was a rabid supporter of our war effort in Afghanistan. I went over there with what was admittedly a simplistic view. These cavemen facillitated the attack on our civilian population back on September 11, 2001. To this day I have such a hatred in my heart for these people and wanted to do my part to destroy them.

After deploying to Afghanistan I realized the mission was not one that I believed in. Again in my simple view, we were attacked and our military should be over there to irradicate the threat but this was no longer what the mission was. I was appalled to see that our military were hamstrung in order to reduce collateral damage of civilian population and win media and world wide support.

We have spent blood and treasure worth more than all redeamable human beings in that God forsaken region of the world. I am sick in my heart that we lose good men there.

What should we do? I don't know. It is too late now for us to enact a scorched earth mission....that is really too bad. I do know that these warriors are following orders, they will be there as long as they are ordered to be. They will be there until their last breath if it is to protect the homeland. I just hope everyone keeps the families of these men in their prayers, they face a lifeime of grief following the loss of their loved ones.


TOPICS: Government; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; military; war

1 posted on 08/07/2011 7:42:49 AM PDT by joesjane
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To: joesjane

I read a little of your post. I agree we should not be in Afghanistan.
That is about all I can read, this story has upset me so much and is so disturbing, I am not able to cope with it.
Melissa


2 posted on 08/07/2011 7:48:54 AM PDT by mel
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To: mel

Thanks Mel,
I think this is probably the hardest position I have ever had to take. I support our military 100% and I will always believe we would be able to win any war we commit to if and only if politicians stay the hell out of it. The whole situation makes me sick and I blame Washington. The blood of these warriors is on D.C.’s hands.


3 posted on 08/07/2011 7:52:34 AM PDT by joesjane ((The strength of the pack is the wolf - Rudyard Kipling))
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To: joesjane

You well say what many of us are thinking and feeling. I am a Marine Dad.


4 posted on 08/07/2011 7:54:50 AM PDT by don-o (Abolish FReepathons. Be a monthly donor.)
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To: mel

We should not be there if we are not going to adequately support our service members. What we are doing now is deliberately putting them in the line of fire.

I am still waiting to hear that we bombed Kandahar or Kabul or Hamid Karzai in order to communicate that this is not acceptable. I’m still waiting. And, that is unacceptable.


5 posted on 08/07/2011 7:55:20 AM PDT by SuzyQue
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To: don-o

Your Marine is in my prayers don-o!


6 posted on 08/07/2011 7:57:25 AM PDT by joesjane ((The strength of the pack is the wolf - Rudyard Kipling))
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To: joesjane

Thanks for your comments and the credibility behind them. I feel this tragedy deeply. I also question America’s presence in the Middle East but worry that leaving, particularly under Obama, will be for reasons of political advantage rather clarity and the predictability of consequences.


7 posted on 08/07/2011 7:59:24 AM PDT by yetidog
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To: joesjane

We should have had begun a mass evacuation of troops in Afghanistan and cut off all foreign aid to Pakistan the day after we killed Bin Laden.


8 posted on 08/07/2011 8:00:21 AM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: joesjane

Good post. If there is another 9/11 - heaven forbid - let’s hope that the country has at least learned something from the past 10 years. That is, at least learned what not to do.


9 posted on 08/07/2011 8:01:44 AM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I carrying this lantern? you ask. I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: joesjane
"What should we do? I don't know. It is too late now for us to enact a scorched earth mission..."

Not really. Get M. Omar and get out taking out all of the Madrases, ISI posts and Islamist mullahs in Southern Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan. Give the military support to India.

10 posted on 08/07/2011 8:05:38 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: CaptainK
"We should have had begun a mass evacuation of troops in Afghanistan and cut off all foreign aid to Pakistan the day after we killed Bin Laden."

IMHO, we should have gone William Tecumseh Sherman on them starting on 9/12/01 and had everybody home by Halloween that year.

11 posted on 08/07/2011 8:07:04 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: joesjane

strangely enough, one of the first thoughts in my head was ‘trap/setup’ and ‘tribute paid’ for killing osama

which led to thinking it could have been a set up

which led to thinking the WH would have to have leaked some info, after having so publicly outed the team as being the one that took out osama

sadly, none of these thoughts i can dismiss anymore as too far fetched.

which leads me to somewhere else.

prayers and condolences to the families and friends.


12 posted on 08/07/2011 8:07:58 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: joesjane

My sincere appreciation to you and your husband for serving in our military, especially in the Middle East. Folks like you and your husband are my heroes. I wish that I could look into your eyes, shake your hand and express my gratitude to you both.

I travel often and I always make it a point to shake hands with any servicemen/women that I see at airports and tell them that I support them 100%.

I am honored to be able to write to you and thank you .

God bless you for your sacrifice.


13 posted on 08/07/2011 8:09:06 AM PDT by Riptides
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To: joesjane

Leave and move them to Iraq. Then ship every drop of oil here until we are paid back two times the cost of both wars.


14 posted on 08/07/2011 8:13:49 AM PDT by isthisnickcool (Sharia? No thanks.)
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To: joesjane

The real problem is that there is no strategy.There is some foggy notion of nation building. That aint what the military is for. And when we start having a offensive that is making headway, it is stopped.
What is the real shame is that the hands of those fighting the war are tied.
If we had real leaders, we would either go all in or get all out.


15 posted on 08/07/2011 8:25:08 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

You won’t get an argument from me.


16 posted on 08/07/2011 8:25:21 AM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: Paladin2
What you suggest could have been done in 2002. And if it had been done, the Islamic threat would be over today. But it's too late now. The country and the Congress are too war-weary.

I read an article back in 2002 that has stuck with me. The author, an expert on the Middle East, said that radical Muslims fear and respect a winner, and despise losers.

The author's point was that Bush II had better win decisively. Because if he didn't the radicals would see us (and the rest of the West) as weaklings who deserve to be eliminated. And that message would spread worldwide.

Well, Bush decided that nation-building was more important than total victory. If he had opted for total victory, no radical Muslim anywhere would have any credibility. But Bush went for nation-building instead. I will never forgive him for that.

17 posted on 08/07/2011 8:26:06 AM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I carrying this lantern? you ask. I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: joesjane
A little while ago, FOX News had a story on one of the SEALs killed in this tragedy.

They reported that he had been deployed before, and had specifically asked to return to combat. he had even turned down an opportunity to be an instructor, just to go back. He went back over there just six weeks ago.

Part of me agrees that perhaps we should get out of there, but another side (the side that is a former soldier) tells me that these guys at the tip of the spear see and know things that the rest of us do not. SOMETHING made that young man from Tennessee with a 2 month old daughter believe that there was something going on worth risking his life for.

Rather than continue to question the misssion, I'm personally going to take a time out and simply honor his (and all of the others) sacrifice. The loss of one is a terrible tragedy... the loss of so many at once is simply staggering.

Prayers up for their families.

18 posted on 08/07/2011 8:26:27 AM PDT by PalmettoMason (Blacks are not inferior, but it is racist to hold them to the same standards as everyone else.)
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To: joesjane

I like girls —I think they should be educated.

But if just ONE of our guys gets zapped building schools for Afghani girls, well then that’s just stupid.

I value both things, but I prefer our guys to live to the prospect of their girls getting an education.

Sorry..!

Afghanis have a very different set of values from me, and I accept that —let them suffer.


19 posted on 08/07/2011 8:33:26 AM PDT by gaijin
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To: joesjane

We should get out.

A punitive expedition is a concept we used to understand, and is how Afghanistan started out. Because we did not get OBL right away, we stayed, but the mission morphed from “get OBL and Al-Q” into “meals on wheels” nation-building. Unfortunately nation-building with tribal savages is a fool’s errand.

We got OBL. Declare victory and get out, warning everyone in the vicinity we will bomb them to the Stone Age and bounce the rubble if they let another OBL set up shop.


20 posted on 08/07/2011 8:34:36 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Joe 6-pack

It is interesting you say that. I emailed out the following WTS quote on 9/12/01 in a longish rant to a large list of friends and acquaintances:

“We cannot change the hearts of those people, but we can make war so terrible...[and] make them so sick of war that generations would pass away before they would again appeal to it.”

The U.S. basically operated under Grant/Sherman total war doctrine from the Civil War through the end of WWII. We have seemingly forgotten that legacy in favor of kinder, gentler war that has not served the country, and especially our front-line troops, well.


21 posted on 08/07/2011 8:39:57 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: PalmettoMason

The reason why men “run towards the guns” is thaat their friends are there.


22 posted on 08/07/2011 8:43:41 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War" (my spelling is generally korrect!))
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To: sten

This was my thought as well, that they were set up. One of the men was a former high school classmate of my son. It was a large class, over 1000, and I only recognized his name, however, this is personal. Our men and women are being put in undue danger by a gov’t who is busy playing games with their lives. LBJ boasted that in Vietnam, our military couldn’t blow up an outhouse without his approval, now we have another megalomaniac leading our country, pray for change.


23 posted on 08/07/2011 8:46:32 AM PDT by All Blue State
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To: joesjane

Thank you for your service. We won, we punished the taliban, now lets get out. If they screw with us again, then we go back and scorch their miserable world. There is no need for us to stay.

Long term, Iraq is important, Afghanistan isn’t. Iran? We should have bombed the hell out of their military complexes but not stayed around to rebuild them. I think we should have taken them and Syria out after we rolled over Saddam. It would have saved a lot of our soldiers lives and would have stabilized the area as much as could have been done.


24 posted on 08/07/2011 9:02:47 AM PDT by FreeAtlanta (Fight for Liberty)
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To: sten
Not defending the 0 regime. But the Chinook was a follow up mission to bring support to some guys that were neck deep in a gun fight. As far as I can tell it was not planned or even on the books. The other aspect is that it seems there was some snafu on arrival that left the Chinook orbiting to long. Very bad idea.
25 posted on 08/07/2011 9:06:46 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: sten
"strangely enough, one of the first thoughts in my head was ‘trap/setup’ and ‘tribute paid’ for killing osama"

I thought I was the only one who could imagine something this despicable from our CinC. After first hearing this gut wrenching news my intense sadness and sense of loss was followed by the question of why. Only one answer came to mind, one that I never would have imagined in another time in America. This retired O-6 thinks the time to leave these barbarians to their own means has come. Not one of those men deserved to lose their life for this mission.

26 posted on 08/07/2011 9:20:30 AM PDT by strongbow
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To: PalmettoMason
You bring up another point that I feel I can speak to personally. I am going to tell you a very personal story.
When I came back from Iraq I had a very difficult time “transitioning” back to the real world. Even though I was a female soldier I loved being out there “in the shit”. Life out there is addictive for some of us. My father had power of attorney for me and by the time I came home he had paid off all of my bills and had rented me an apartment off post. I walked off the C-5 and into a ready made life. I spent the next 5 months sitting on my living room floor with my new friend Johnny Walker and Fox News watching the never ending war coverage (this was 2003, I was in OIF 1). I was severely depressed to be home. I tried to volunteer to go back out but back then we were not due for another rotation until 2005 (this was before they junked the whole 24 month stabilization policy). I started looking for jobs out there and found one very quickly.

When my ETS date came up I chose to get out (as do a lot of our people with war time only missions ie: shooters and targeters). I spent the next 4 years in the combat zones of Iraq and Afghanistan along with an awesome job on a little island not too far off the coast of Florida.

To this day I miss it. The friendship and camaraderie surpass all the relationships I ever had here in the states. Don't get me wrong, I love my family but there is nothing like the relationship you have with your fellow troops.

Some, not all of our troops feel this way. There are those in uniform who joined to pay for college or because they have no other opportunities but that is an entirely different discussion. All I can tell you is that in the true warrior community it is very difficult to pull yourself out of the fight.

27 posted on 08/07/2011 9:30:00 AM PDT by joesjane ((The strength of the pack is the wolf - Rudyard Kipling))
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To: Joe 6-pack

Now that is what I am talking about. Easily done. Part of me thinks that the only way we will get back to that type of policy is to get a prior service person in the WH.


28 posted on 08/07/2011 9:31:55 AM PDT by joesjane ((The strength of the pack is the wolf - Rudyard Kipling))
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To: Riptides

Thank you Riptides. Freepers are one of the few things that restore my faith in the American people and lead me to believe I did serve some outstanding Americans!


29 posted on 08/07/2011 9:33:17 AM PDT by joesjane ((The strength of the pack is the wolf - Rudyard Kipling))
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To: Joe 6-pack

After fighting the war against a state where the American army suffered losses on a scale that we do not want to endure again, Sherman did not manage to wrap up the Indian problems so quickly.


30 posted on 08/07/2011 9:41:12 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Bristol Palin's book "Not Afraid Of Life: My Journey So Far" became a New York Times, best seller.)
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To: joesjane
Any one of theses is a show stopper, imo:
  1. The rules of engagement that endanger our troops
  2. The rules of engagement that do NOT allow us to be brutal enough to stop the IED. Set an IED? Wipe out the males between 15 and 45 in the village that set it.
  3. The corrupting influences that the Afhgan culture has on our war fighters, from bribery to homosexuality and pederasty, when we don't (or can't) force them to abide by the rules of OUR culture, as the Brits once did in Pakistan.
  4. The poppy trade. Allowing it to continue in any significant extent.

31 posted on 08/07/2011 9:42:29 AM PDT by bvw
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To: joesjane
Part of me thinks that the only way we will get back to that type of policy is to get a prior service person in the WH.

George W Bush and HW Bush, have both dealt with the middle East, and they were ex-military.

32 posted on 08/07/2011 9:46:00 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Bristol Palin's book "Not Afraid Of Life: My Journey So Far" became a New York Times, best seller.)
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To: joesjane

Thank you for sharing your beliefs. If we had gone into this to win the war we would be long gone by now. Instead? PC was the weapon of the war. My heart breaks for all who have been lost. It seems SENSELESS. We’re there to protect our own country and yet our own country is fighting a battle from within against terrorists and illegals crossing our borders, killing ranchers etc. Why are we somewhere else giving protection when here at home we are losing the war? God help us all.

Tahnk you and your husband for your service and for all military members around the globe. Our condolences to you on the loss of your friends this weekend. Our hearts and prayers have gone out to their families. We can’t imagine the pain and suffering that is taking place in those homes around the country grieving for the loss of their loved ones.

It’s not right. Protect America first and... with all that is going on here...we need to bring our military home so they can protect the very country they were FIGHTING for. It’s all upside down and frankly...it disgusts me to the bone. I am disgusted with the commander in chief and all politicians who are doing NOTHING. NOTHING!!! They can’t even protect us in our own country. I think theya re all worthless and just damned well don’t know what to do.

Anyway, sorry. I cannot control my passion when I think of all the lost parents, relatives etc we have sacrificed for OTHER countries while our very own is BURNING. God bless you.


33 posted on 08/07/2011 10:03:15 AM PDT by cubreporter (From TEA to Shining TEA - Go Rush Limbaugh..a giant of all that is good.)
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To: joesjane

From the time we read the news stories my heart was filled with grief. I pray for all that are serving and have served. As well I pray for those who have lost family & friends.


34 posted on 08/07/2011 11:11:16 AM PDT by call meVeronica
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To: joesjane
.


Gentlemen ....here are some thoughts that I've had over the past 24 hours ...



For starters, I've been at Free Republic since 1996 ... so I'm NOT a Troll ...

As Jackie Gleason used to say "And Away We Go ..."





1) Osama Bin Laden was (carefully stated) the most "publicly visible" War Criminal since Hitler ...


2) Osama Bin Laden and Al Quada (sp) have certainly infiltrated the continental United States ... possibly a couple of years before 9/11 ... they CERTAINLY have Assasins and Sleeper Agents here ...


3) Osama Bin Laden might have actually been "hiding" in Pakistan and then Executed-Captured by the United States military a few months back ... but who REALLY knows ?


4) "SEAL Team Six" may not even ACTUALLY exist ... except on a Pentagon Public Relations / Counterintelligence chart ...


5) If I were the POTUS I actually would have assisted the Pentagon into "fabricating" the story of SEAL Team Six ... CERTAINLY THE UNIT'S names ... and possibly even Osama Bin Laden's capture-killing ...


6) Why fabricate a ficticious military unit SEAL Team Six ?


7) To protect the ACTUAL combat fighters and their families, relatives and GRANDCHILDREN for the next fifty (50) years ... against Al Quada retaliation ...


8) And what is the BEST way to handle this entire scenario ?


9) Allegedly kill Osama Bin Laden ... BURY HIM AT SEA (?????)


10) THEN ... MURDER or pretend to murder (by tragic accident, of course) ... the ENTIRE military unit SEAL Team Six ...


11) Dead Men tell no tales ... and this is "made for Hollywood" movie special ... ala "Wag the Dog" ...


12) At a minimum, IF there was a SEAL Team Six who really did kill Osama Bin Laden ... ALL OF THEIR SECRETS are now buried with them ...


13) Moreover, their Commanding Officers, CIA-NSA contacts, Support personnel will also be DEAD soon ... and all records mysteriously disappear ...


14) Could either President Bush or Bill Clinton EVER approved such a devious and EVIL plan ?


15) No ... not even Bill Clinton ...


16) Can you say THAT about U.S. President Barry Sorreto ?


17) No. He is EVIL. He is NERO in Rome. He is a traitor.


18) He is "Obama Bin Laden" (no mispelling) ... the FIRST moslem POTUS ...


19) And as Barry will whisper into Mooschelle's ears tonight in their Whitehouse Bedroom ... "May Allah be Praised" ...




.
35 posted on 08/07/2011 12:56:35 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne
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